Country Clubs: The Good and The Bad

[vandyfan]

Another perk, if you are into equipment (safe assumption here), is that demoing clubs is quite simple at nicer clubs. There is a constant stream of vendors coming through (we had Mizuno irons, Taylormade Full bag, Srixon full bag, Titleist Full bag, Titleist ball fitting) all come through on separate days in the last 45 days. I can typically grab a driver and have about 15 different shaft options (types of shafts, not including more options via flex and weight) that I can go take out on the course or range and then bring back no problem. 

 

Now this could be a bad problem if you buy stuff all the time but it is nice to check these things every release cycle and realize "no, these aren't significantly better than what I have." Or, if it is, then you can go ahead and jump on the new latest and greatest. 

 

My one quibble would be I wish we had Cobra stuff but we are predominantly Titleist/Taylormade/Mizuno/Srixon at our club which are all good options. In a perfect world they would have a Maltby cart but I am not sure that exists anywhere outside of golfworks.  

[2bGood]

On 9/27/2023 at 12:02 PM, jibbs1082 said:

 

-4 hour round (undisputed top of the list)

-Sense of camaraderie amongst other members

-Finding a good game relative to your index

-Men's lounge feels like the locker room back in the college days

-Ability to practice whenever you want on a real range, and short game area

-Excellent conditioning of the course

-Member/Guest, Member/Member are very fun events to be a part of

 

 

Cons:

Over paying for convenience and access. If that's a con or something you just learn to understand as life goes on.

 

 

 

This is a great list.

 

-I would add to the "pros" competitive golf events

-Able to be other private clubs

-Demo events etc by manufactures (I may area they visit all the private clubs a few times a year to host fitting and demo's for free)

 

Cons would be, you play way more golf and feel like you have to. You don't really take a break from the game as you pay wether you play or not. 

Edited October 6, 2023 by 2bGood

[vandyfan]

After a full year of membership I want to add a few cons that are beginning to irk me (of course still vastly outweighed by the accessibility and ease of getting tee times, great conditions, etc). And, yes, this post outs me as a cheap, puritan, curmudgeon. 

 

- I rarely play with my friends anymore - they are either at other clubs or not affiliated with clubs. Most of the higher end privates don't allow guests before 2 pm on the weekends and that is the only time I am generally able to play golf. Also the guest fee is fairly steep ($150ish). 

- Way too many money games - I am probably in the minority but I don't like playing money games, at all. I jump into groups on the weekends and they are almost always playing some sort of game. I, of course, play along because I don't want to seem weird but I prefer to just "play" golf rather than turn everything into some competition. I try to avoid the groups I know will be playing for money but those are also most of the guys my age and skill level. Annoying. 
- Too many tournaments - Again, I am probably in the minority but I don't really enjoy competitive golf. There are frequent tournaments (only open to members so not like I can't play in them) on the weekends when I play so a lot of times I either have to jump in the tournament or just not play that weekend. Again, I prefer/just like playing regular golf
- The Member/Guest Setup - this is maybe a bit nuanced but the Member/Guest involves a calcutta. Again, I don't love gambling. You basically have to buy your team or else be ostracized. A lot of the older/richer members bid up all the teams to make sure everyone's team is at least $XXX (generally $500 minimum). Yes, there is the chance you win a lot of money but, more likely, it just increases the member/guest expense by $500. And then, of course, almost every match has side gambling in it and everyone is drinking their face off. So, as a result I just haven't played int the member/guest and don't really intend to...which is a shame because I imagine the actual event is quite fun outside of the gambling. 

 

Edited February 9 by vandyfan

[carrera]

@vandyfan All legitimate points.   Some thoughts:

 

1.  Surprised your guest fee is that high...that isn't great.  And 2pm is a late cutoff for weekend guests.

 

2. You might be surprised that some money games end up with you paying or receiving trivial amounts like $15-30.  Not every game has big money and exotic dots and rollovers.  You may just need to find a group of like-minded guys.

 

3. I pick and choose among our tournaments.  Always play in the match play championship (played over a couple of months with winners by flight) and a few other fun events.

 

4. At our M/G, you just buy half your team, and then fun to have various bets on teams you know.  Easy to small time the individual match bets since everyone is just there to have a good time and having $20 bet on a nine hole match usually works fine.  But I don't know the way things go at your club.  Most members of a club (by percentage) don't play in the M/G...it is a big entry fee and you and your guest have to check out of real life for 3-4 days and a lot of guys can't do it.  So missing a M/G is no big deal.

 

Hope you have a good 2024 at the club.  Thanks for the update.

[golfpractitioner5]

1 hour ago, vandyfan said:

After a full year of membership I want to add a few cons that are beginning to irk me (of course still vastly outweighed by the accessibility and ease of getting tee times, great conditions, etc). And, yes, this post outs me as a cheap, puritan, curmudgeon. 

 

- I rarely play with my friends anymore - they are either at other clubs or not affiliated with clubs. Most of the higher end privates don't allow guests before 2 pm on the weekends and that is the only time I am generally able to play golf. Also the guest fee is fairly steep ($150ish). 

- Way too many money games - I am probably in the minority but I don't like playing money games, at all. I jump into groups on the weekends and they are almost always playing some sort of game. I, of course, play along because I don't want to seem weird but I prefer to just "play" golf rather than turn everything into some competition. I try to avoid the groups I know will be playing for money but those are also most of the guys my age and skill level. Annoying. 
- Too many tournaments - Again, I am probably in the minority but I don't really enjoy competitive golf. There are frequent tournaments (only open to members so not like I can't play in them) on the weekends when I play so a lot of times I either have to jump in the tournament or just not play that weekend. Again, I prefer/just like playing regular golf
- The Member/Guest Setup - this is maybe a bit nuanced but the Member/Guest involves a calcutta. Again, I don't love gambling. You basically have to buy your team or else be ostracized. A lot of the older/richer members bid up all the teams to make sure everyone's team is at least $XXX (generally $500 minimum). Yes, there is the chance you win a lot of money but, more likely, it just increases the member/guest expense by $500. And then, of course, almost every match has side gambling in it and everyone is drinking their face off. So, as a result I just haven't played int the member/guest and don't really intend to...which is a shame because I imagine the actual event is quite fun outside of the gambling. 

 

Thanks for the feedback. Those 4 points I’ve come across a lot in doing my research for the club near me. They are just a few of many of the many reasons I’ve decided not to join a country club and just continue to be a public course hacker.

 

I will miss out on the convenience it would have supplied, but at the end of the day, the cons of joining the club far outweighed the benefits.

[Schley]

One consideration I will note is that if your friends aren't private club members, you may drift away from playing together. It will grow tiresome paying the guest fees each time you host, up to $200 as of last year at one of my clubs.  I never charge or ask for a guest to pay their guest fees, after all they are guests. You will run up against guest play limits if you do anyway (No more than 5 rounds a year per guests at one of my clubs for example).

 

Your membership is for you and your family, so be prepared to make new playing friends which IMO is exciting not a negative. Unless it is a national club where you bring your own game, just have the mindset it will broaden your social network and you may not have as many rounds with your public playing buddies.

[ND2005]

16 hours ago, carrera said:

@vandyfan All legitimate points.   Some thoughts:

 

 

2. You might be surprised that some money games end up with you paying or receiving trivial amounts like $15-30.  Not every game has big money and exotic dots and rollovers.  You may just need to find a group of like-minded guys.

 

I recently played as a guest in a money game at a very nice private club. Pretty sure I was the only one in the group who wasn’t a multi millionaire. 
 
the buy in? $5 

[doctor220]

Def agree regarding the gambling. I’d rather just play for fun or my own score and sometimes it’s really hard to keep track of it all.
 

I have never played in a member guest and have no desire to be around a bunch of dudes way too drunk  or the other guys trying to sandbag their way into some big money… 

 

events are def a balance. We have scaled back on this year as I think too many events were a common complaint 

[golfpractitioner5]

The decision for me not to join the clubs I was considering came down to a few factors. One was just a golf club while the other was a country club.

 

Accessibility was the biggest deciding factor for me on both. 

 

The strictly golf club was over 30 minutes away which I determined would hinder me from getting the full experience out of it for how I planned to use it. I know 30 minutes isn't a long way, but it basically adds an hour onto each round due to travel time to and from and makes it where it makes no sense to use their driving range with that kind of drive.  Also, it was semiprivate which means the rounds generally sit between 4-5 hours depending on day and time. I can play any of the several local public courses just as conveniently over that place and go play that course on occasion if wanted since it is just semiprivate.

 

The country club closest to my house is less than 5 minutes away, but was not as accessible as I thought it might be.  I learned this from talking to a few current members and several people who had dropped their memberships.  There was a lot of good things about the country club said, but the bad things were the ones that sat highest on my list of club needs as golf was my primary reason for wanting to join.  I play mostly weekday golf as weekends are usually family time and activities, and like a lot of country clubs, it was closed to all golf related activities including range on Mondays. This would cost me a day of access. Then, I was informed that the club hosts a lot of outside tournaments and charity events during the week that limit access for members to the course.  Apparently, there are, also, several leagues amongst the women and older members in the club which lock down the course during certain times of the day through the week as well where they do not let others play on the course. One guy, who was a current member but contemplating dropping membership due to these reasons, informed me that he is lucky to get in a couple rounds on weekdays due to having to maneuver between all the times that are blocked off on course due to various reasons. Like me, he hardly ever plays weekend golf due to family responsibilities and work.

[caniac6]

Our money game is $6, and we play 3 six hole matches. If your team plays ok, there’s a pretty good chance of getting your money back. We don’t play any junk or individual bets.

Edited February 10 by caniac6

[SnowbirdTom]

Been a member for 3 months now and couple guys are asking why I'm not into the "fun" games.  Siimply told them I don't gamble, drink or smoke.  IOW, I'm boring to 95% of the members.  I don't use the bar, rarely eat at the club and usually scoot right after playing. 

 

Having the ability to get out and play pretty much whenever the mood strikes is why I'm a member.  Over morning coffee today, realized there was a 1PM tee slot open and off I went on the whole 3 mile trek to the club parking lot. 9 holes and 90 minutes later, packed my stuff and came home.

[Bonneville85308]

On 2/9/2024 at 12:34 PM, vandyfan said:

After a full year of membership I want to add a few cons that are beginning to irk me (of course still vastly outweighed by the accessibility and ease of getting tee times, great conditions, etc). And, yes, this post outs me as a cheap, puritan, curmudgeon. 

 

- I rarely play with my friends anymore - they are either at other clubs or not affiliated with clubs. Most of the higher end privates don't allow guests before 2 pm on the weekends and that is the only time I am generally able to play golf. Also the guest fee is fairly steep ($150ish). 

- Way too many money games - I am probably in the minority but I don't like playing money games, at all. I jump into groups on the weekends and they are almost always playing some sort of game. I, of course, play along because I don't want to seem weird but I prefer to just "play" golf rather than turn everything into some competition. I try to avoid the groups I know will be playing for money but those are also most of the guys my age and skill level. Annoying. 
- Too many tournaments - Again, I am probably in the minority but I don't really enjoy competitive golf. There are frequent tournaments (only open to members so not like I can't play in them) on the weekends when I play so a lot of times I either have to jump in the tournament or just not play that weekend. Again, I prefer/just like playing regular golf
- The Member/Guest Setup - this is maybe a bit nuanced but the Member/Guest involves a calcutta. Again, I don't love gambling. You basically have to buy your team or else be ostracized. A lot of the older/richer members bid up all the teams to make sure everyone's team is at least $XXX (generally $500 minimum). Yes, there is the chance you win a lot of money but, more likely, it just increases the member/guest expense by $500. And then, of course, almost every match has side gambling in it and everyone is drinking their face off. So, as a result I just haven't played int the member/guest and don't really intend to...which is a shame because I imagine the actual event is quite fun outside of the gambling. 

 

 

You and I sound pretty similar-minded. During my first few years of club membership 20+ years ago I could have written your exact post. I just like to go out, hit the ball, and play against the course, no money games or serious competition. Never played in the annual member-guest. The most competition I care for is a laid back summer weeknight 9-hole league that most clubs I've belonged to have had. After I figured out that most of the weekend morning groups were money games and very few people in the morning just went out to play for the sake of playing, I started playing mid-afternoons when the course was pretty dead except for a few scattered singles and twosomes. I randomly hooked up with a few other guys in the first couple years with similar views (didn't like money games or tournaments), eventually we made a regular group of 2 to 4 guys (depending on who could make it) that we had going for 10+ years. Did a lot of day trips to other courses with them when our club was closed off for a tournament, did a lot of dinners and hangouts with them and our significant others both at and away from the club. Two of those guys became my best friends and we still get together several times per year even though we all left that club and live in different parts of the country now.

 

Like you, I had a few people I considered "golf friends" when I played a local public course before joining the club, randoms I had met over the years and connected with. After I joined, I brought one as a guest maybe once but otherwise we just drifted apart and didn't play together anymore. 

 

[Golferpaul]

On 2/10/2024 at 6:33 AM, ND2005 said:

I recently played as a guest in a money game at a very nice private club. Pretty sure I was the only one in the group who wasn’t a multi millionaire. 
 
the buy in? $5 

I play with a group that all have multi-millions, more than they can spend in their remaining lives.  Our daily game buy-in is $5 per person.  It still makes the round very competitive.  No matter how much money you have, nobody likes to lose $5.

[smashdn]

We usually play wolf for a dollar a point.  Never end up more than $20 either way when you play with more or less equal in skill players.

 

If not wolf we'll play low ball low total for a buck a point.

[Mullenboy]

I look at this EXACTLY like Vandyfan and in fact it was life-affirming to read his post.  I thought I was uniquely anti-social.  )

 

I grew up playing competitive golf, still dip my toe into it from time to time, but in general, it's more stress than fun.  So at my club, I am just there to play the game, relax, oh sure I keep score, but my competition is myself.  The last thing I need or want is a bunch of money games.  And unfortunately, the vast majority of our "men's club" does nothing but that.  They also take the whole course every Saturday morning for their competitions, as well as certain other times.  The Member-Member and Member-Guest events feature a peer-pressure filled Calcutta which is impossible to avoid, nor wager less than $500 per man on.  NONE of that holds any appeal to me.

 

Luckily I found a couple like-minded guys and we play 5 days per week first group off... no pressure, lots of laughs, great fun.  This is a cool thing for sure and no way could happen at a public course.

 

But Vandyfan did list the negatives.  They are very real for me as well.  In the end the positives greatly outweigh these.  But they do exist.

[golfpractitioner5]

The club that I was most considering joining just voted on a complete course remodel. The course will be closed down for 6-8 months starting at the end of the year and all full members and junior members are getting assessed an extra $10,000 over regular dues. Apparently, you can pay the full $10,000 up front or have it spread out but have to pay interest on it that way. Sounds horrible, but I guess that is just something that happens with memberships at times. 

[klebs01]

8 hours ago, golfpractitioner5 said:

The club that I was most considering joining just voted on a complete course remodel. The course will be closed down for 6-8 months starting at the end of the year and all full members and junior members are getting assessed an extra $10,000 over regular dues. Apparently, you can pay the full $10,000 up front or have it spread out but have to pay interest on it that way. Sounds horrible, but I guess that is just something that happens with memberships at times. 

Courses, just like cars and houses, need maintenance. Bunkers, irrigation, drainage, etc. all have a finite useful life. Things like this don’t just pop up. They are usually socialized over a period of years. I’m assuming this is an equity club. The members need to pay for the work one way or another, and this was probably the most popular way. 

[golfpractitioner5]

2 hours ago, klebs01 said:

Courses, just like cars and houses, need maintenance. Bunkers, irrigation, drainage, etc. all have a finite useful life. Things like this don’t just pop up. They are usually socialized over a period of years. I’m assuming this is an equity club. The members need to pay for the work one way or another, and this was probably the most popular way. 

Actually, it is not an equity club. There are not a lot of equity clubs in my area. 

[akronswitness]

Good

• Exclusivity. It's not nearly as packed as public courses which is worth its weight in gold in this day and age.
  • 3.5-4 hour rounds and not 4.5-5.5 hour rounds
• Driving range included
• Exceptionally maintained practice greens/facilities
• Has a restaurant (although its paid)
• Has a pool to take the family to in the summertime
• Quality lessons offered from knowledgeable golf pros
• The restroom huts/consistency with cart girls is amazing compared to a public course

Bad

• Like many CC's, its a luxury and they know its a luxury item so the initiation/yearly dues are often asinine to maintain its exclusivity
  • This obviously doesn't matter if you have the extra finances and dont care about the cost
• Your essentially locked into playing the same course 40+ times a year and may suffer from quick burnout
  • You end up feeling dirty when you go spend money to play other courses because you know you already paid for a CC.
  • A lot of families I know have gotten the burnout of going to the same place over and over. Our family did after 2-3 years and stopped.
    • To avoid the burnout, make sure wherever you looking has more to do than just golf. Especially if you have a family.
• Some require you to spend X amount at the restaurant/bar inside so you feel pressure to go there

 

Its all about money at the end of the day. If you have the finances to join a CC and its not going to effect any other areas of your life--absolutely do it.

 

 

Edited February 17 by akronswitness

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, golfpractitioner5 said:

Actually, it is not an equity club. There are not a lot of equity clubs in my area. 

Welp. That’s just nuts then. No way I would pay an assessment at a corporate  or individual owned club. 

[david.c.w]

3 hours ago, klebs01 said:

Welp. That’s just nuts then. No way I would pay an assessment at a corporate  or individual owned club. 

 

Can't speak for OP, but my club is a member owned, non-equity club.  My definition of equity club is that you get all or most of your initiation fee back when you leave. 

 

May be a nuance in the explanation.

[golfpractitioner5]

48 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Can't speak for OP, but my club is a member owned, non-equity club.  My definition of equity club is that you get all or most of your initiation fee back when you leave. 

 

May be a nuance in the explanation.

The one that I was referring to is a member owned non-equity club.

[klebs01]

2 hours ago, david.c.w said:

 

Can't speak for OP, but my club is a member owned, non-equity club.  My definition of equity club is that you get all or most of your initiation fee back when you leave. 

 

May be a nuance in the explanation.

Good point. I generally use equity and member owned interchangeably. Many different forms of ownership in terms of structure, what’s refundable and when, and under what conditions. It’s pretty fair to assume that the downstroke is gone outside of a very few top clubs. 

[st1800e]

Always wondered about the debates on entry fees/share purchase .  Some join a club to play at a club, and all the benefits it entails.  
If someone joins a club thinking “what can I get out of it when I leave?”, should you be joining in the first place? 

[carrera]

39 minutes ago, st1800e said:

If someone joins a club thinking “what can I get out of it when I leave?”, should you be joining in the first place? 

Helps with discussions with the household CFO, aka wife.

[st1800e]

28 minutes ago, carrera said:

Helps with discussions with the household CFO, aka wife.

Sounds like she’s the CEO as well…😉

[Drock25]

One big benefit is having a head golf pro willing to put in “favor” phone calls to other clubs to get tee times for you.  I do that a decent amount when traveling and get onto some nice courses that are private too.