Educate me on high school golf...

[Abh159]

On 11/3/2023 at 3:34 PM, golferdad8 said:

 

I think it depends on how good your kid is, what level college golf he aspires to, and how important academic is to your son. 

 

These are really good questions to get your kid thinking about.

 

As someone who played college golf (and HS golf before that), DI college coaches couldn't give two poops what someone does in HS golf tournaments. If they aspire to this level you need to look at the HS golf season as a warm up or practice competition for more regional and national tournaments. 

 

The only coaches I knew and know who even look at HS scores are going to be DII, III, and JUCO schools. Primarily just because a lot of the kids that go play at that level aren't competing regularly in other tournaments so HS is most of what they have to go off of.

 

None of that is to say that HS golf isn't important or enjoyable. It is great at teaching kids how to be a part of a team and how to win/lose as a team also. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 11/3/2023 at 4:27 PM, mrshinsa said:

I wish my kid stopped playing HS golf.    He's having TOO much fun.  There I said it.  

Bitter party of one your table is ready. 😉

 

My kids loved HS golf.  Both have a BFF that also played on the team so they were often paired with them and practiced everyday.

 

Son would do scrambles on friday.

[JKgolfer]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:09 PM, kekoa said:

So my son will be a freshman next year and we are new to high school golf.  A few questions I have:

 

- Does high school golf really matter?

- Does the strength of the team matter?

-  Does the division matter?  (D1, D2, etcc...)

 

We are looking at a very good private school in the area and I found out they are D4 in golf.  I had no idea.  A few of the public schools in the area are D1 but classes and overall school are much larger.   Best to sacrifice golf for a strong college preparatory education I assume..

 

On 11/3/2023 at 2:30 PM, kekoa said:

Thanks for the input.  As for diversifying, I'm curious how a high school kid can do other sports at a somewhat high level while juggling homework, life, etc..  It would seem like there aren't enough hours in the day to tackle this.   As an 8th grader, my son's school workload is very moderate allowing him to practice almost everyday.  In speaking to some kids attending college prep high schools, they have tons of homework almost every night with projects in between which puts golf on the back burner until weekends come.  

Kekoa - it really does vary from high school to high school and from region to region, but here are the questions I would answer:

 

Does HS golf matter?   -- Yes, it does a little, but it can either be a positive or negative,

 

Does strength of team matter? -- Yes, but not for recruiting.  I think Leezer hit the nail on the head, its better to be on a HS team with at least 2-3 other players who are around your son's level or better.  The team structure can make improving his individual game easier if the other players have some drive or it can hurt him if the other players are less ambitious or committed.

 

Does division matter?  -- No.  Unless they changed the rules, I think the D1, D2, etc are set by enrollment size.  Some private schools are smaller but have really good golf teams. Some public schools are massive and have very bad golf teams.  

 

Better question - does he have friends his age that are going to also play in HS?  Where are they going?  Does he know any of the other boys on the HS team already?   Even if he has 1-2 friends who are at his level, it will be a better team experience than just walking in blind.

 

Balancing HS and studies?  This really depends on the intensity of the practice schedule set by the coach and by the school.  Some HS's will allow one elective to be a PE credit and will schedule that class to be your last class of the day.  In my Florida HS, we had last period "team sports" and cut out an hour early during golf season to go to practice. We loved it.  We also attended one of the top academic HS in the country, all IB/AP courses and some of us (like me) didn't play golf in college because we had full academic scholarships (but this is also 30 years ago). Not a lax policy per se, just accommodating.

[RobS]

HS golf generally isn't likely to have a significant impact on future opportunities but the last thing you want is your kid to hit 16 years old, give or take, and feel like they're missing out on life outside of golf and academics.  HS golf gives a kid the opportunity to be part of a team, be part of the school outside of the classroom, build friendships and just generally be more social.

 

YMMV will vary on the actual golf experience.  Coaches will range from the guys who can drive the van and supervise teenagers all the way up to guys that have significant golf knowledge, experience and contacts. Courses will range from dog track munis all the way up to high quality privates.  In the end, it's still an opportunity practice, play and improve.

[kekoa]

We have been looking at some high schools for my son.  One school we are very interested in rates high in academics whereas the golf team is D3.  On top of that I understand they don't really have a home course to practice with the team.  Their practices consist mainly of range time and players are expected to play on their own since most are members at a club.  This really concerns me since I see other local high schools that have regimented course time and workouts on off days.   

[leezer99]

10 minutes ago, kekoa said:

We have been looking at some high schools for my son.  One school we are very interested in rates high in academics whereas the golf team is D3.  On top of that I understand they don't really have a home course to practice with the team.  Their practices consist mainly of range time and players are expected to play on their own since most are members at a club.  This really concerns me since I see other local high schools that have regimented course time and workouts on off days.   

The range time practices are worthless for competitive junior golfers. They’re all just trying to hit flop shots 200 feet into the air. The on course stuff is better. My son plays #1 in his team and they’ll basically play 3v1 against him where it’s his score against the best score of the other 3. I am glad that six of their players graduated last year so they have a much better, younger team this year. 

[TroyB123]

I know nothing about your state, but I wouldn't think d3 would be a concern.   They're usually based on school size for football purposes.  We have 6 divisions with class 6 being the biggest, and most of the best teams are in 4 or 5.

 

Not having a home course to play would seem to take away a lot of what makes high school golf fun.    We lucked out into having a nice private course as our home course, and playing qualifying rounds after school during season is good practice.   We have about 4 players who play plenty of tournament golf and I know it motivates my son to move up within that group.   My kid is a sophomore and so far it's been a great experience for him.   It gives a nice change up from the tournament seasons to playing meaningful rounds a few times a week, trying to win states, play a different course for a few months and really added to his group of golf friends which just makes golf in general more fun.

[golferdad8]

19 minutes ago, kekoa said:

We have been looking at some high schools for my son.  One school we are very interested in rates high in academics whereas the golf team is D3.  On top of that I understand they don't really have a home course to practice with the team.  Their practices consist mainly of range time and players are expected to play on their own since most are members at a club.  This really concerns me since I see other local high schools that have regimented course time and workouts on off days.   

If you’re going the academics route, given the limited time available for stressed out HS kids, help him love getting better in golf & protect his most important asset - time. 
All things being equal, it’s nice to have HS golf, but given the likely trade off, I suggest prioritizing getting straight A’s & a top 100 JGS class ranking.
PS. Keep in mind, from 9th grade to 11th grade, the # of ranked players triple - so he needs to keep improving his scoring differential just to even hold onto his ranking. 

[RmoorePE]

I'm (asst) coaching HS golf right now and course access is critical. Its just way more fun for the kids, which is really the point of HS golf.

 

Our team gets on the course almost every day, doing situational stuff, playing 3 to 9 holes, scrambles etc. Last night we did two par 3s, two times in a row. Kids were grouped into two teams, and the team who improved the most between 2 hole rounds won. They loved it. Simple games, added pressure, and team play are what make HS golf fun.

 

 

 

[mrshinsa]

18 hours ago, kekoa said:

We have been looking at some high schools for my son.  One school we are very interested in rates high in academics whereas the golf team is D3.  On top of that I understand they don't really have a home course to practice with the team.  Their practices consist mainly of range time and players are expected to play on their own since most are members at a club.  This really concerns me since I see other local high schools that have regimented course time and workouts on off days.   

HS golf is a lot of fun, but a big waste of time regarding golf improvement.  

Most of the time is spent socializing and doing silly trick shots. 

 

The worst part is most kids on the team are not serious about playing golf.

 

 

 

Our kid's school also does not have an organized practice and thank god for that.  

Edited March 12 by mrshinsa

[wegobomber31]

Basically I have given my son one consistent thought process when it comes to high school golf: go and try to shoot 59. 
 

There is some benefit to being the number one player and expected to win against lesser competition. It’s a different kind of pressure to have to consistently deliver. Just create your own subset of goals within the high school golf landscape and you’ll be fine. 
 

 

[jayslaysongolf]

Some people are serious about high school golf and spend far too much money and time picking a team.  

 

However they usually do well in those schools and that is what it takes to be around other decent players.

 

But that is the exception not the rule.  The best way to play high school golf is just show up and play at your local school. Kids that play tournaments are usually the stars of the team.

 

It more of way yo get kids to socialize then anything else.

[Jgolfer99]

On 11/2/2023 at 8:09 PM, kekoa said:

So my son will be a freshman next year and we are new to high school golf.  A few questions I have:

 

- Does high school golf really matter?

- Does the strength of the team matter?

-  Does the division matter?  (D1, D2, etcc...)

 

We are looking at a very good private school in the area and I found out they are D4 in golf.  I had no idea.  A few of the public schools in the area are D1 but classes and overall school are much larger.   Best to sacrifice golf for a strong college preparatory education I assume..

 

To the OP - allow me to chime in from my perspective as both a previous HS golfer (Midwest) and college player (West Coast).  First of all any HS team sport matters in the sense that it fosters many positive life lessons in my humble opinion.  Moving on to more golf/personal growth specifics, the strength of the team is irrelevant for the most part depending on the player's own goals.  If the player wants to take golf seriously and wants to perhaps play in college then surrounding yourself with more serious/like-mind players of stronger abilities does help simply to promote more competition and learn from better players.  The division or conference makes absolutely no difference whatsoever in the grand scheme of things, aside from the same points raised in my previous statement.  What ultimately matters most is (3) things - 1) Culture of team/school, 2) Level of coaching/involvement provided to improve and 3) Quality of home courses/practice facilities.  For me the quality of course the team gets to play/practice on is paramount to game development.  If you play a goat track all the time it will be tough to improve.  However if they have access to a top notch courses, driving ranges etc., you will have much better resources to improve.  Hope this helps!  

[Jgolfer99]

The final point I want to make on this is that from a purely competitive standpoint (if eyes are on college golf) your performance in HS golf team play is virtually irrelevant to college coaches DI or even better DII and DIII.  Unless the player is dropping 65s on the regular at Saturday morning tourneys while on the team, the scores college coaches are looking for are from the junior golf level both local and national aka AJGA.  Beginning summer after freshman year, you really want to have a full summer tournament schedule (3-6 tourneys each summer) with either AJGA or your local state junior golf association or local state/USGA amateurs.  These tournament fields provide a few things - much stronger fields, much more difficult courses and a better barometer for how the player stacks up.  Fair warning these tourneys can get pricey both with entry fees and travel if going out of state.   

Edited March 12 by Jgolfer99
spelling

[golferdad8]

3 hours ago, wegobomber31 said:

Basically I have given my son one consistent thought process when it comes to high school golf: go and try to shoot 59. 
 

There is some benefit to being the number one player and expected to win against lesser competition. It’s a different kind of pressure to have to consistently deliver. Just create your own subset of goals within the high school golf landscape and you’ll be fine. 
 

 

Texas & others different as in CA most HS matches are 9 holes & play from white tees. Even if shoot 29, it really doesn’t matter, esp from that distance. 

[leezer99]

1 hour ago, golferdad8 said:

Texas & others different as in CA most HS matches are 9 holes & play from white tees. Even if shoot 29, it really doesn’t matter, esp from that distance. 

Are you in California? I am and my son has never played from the white tees in high school. They do have 1v1 matches against other schools that are 9 holes but those don’t count for league standings. Our league matches are 7-8 schools playing 18 holes. 

[TroyB123]

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

Are you in California? I am and my son has never played from the white tees in high school. They do have 1v1 matches against other schools that are 9 holes but those don’t count for league standings. Our league matches are 7-8 schools playing 18 holes. 

What do white tees even mean anyway anyway.  The better schools in our region usually host matches on the 6600 tees.   Some of those are blue, some white, some call them after some kind of metal or animal or number, lol.   Some schools host matches on shorter tees, and our school generally lets some younger kids get starts on those.  We do 3 team 9 hole matches after school, and 2 18 hole and a 36 hole tournament before school is in session.  Regionals and states are 18 holes at around 6600.  The 9 hole scores are pretty meaningless on an individual level and a lot aren't very close, but matches against the 3-4 rival schools are always pretty competitive and fun.

 

[mrshinsa]

On 3/12/2024 at 6:52 PM, TroyB123 said:

What do white tees even mean anyway anyway.  The better schools in our region usually host matches on the 6600 tees.   Some of those are blue, some white, some call them after some kind of metal or animal or number, lol.   Some schools host matches on shorter tees, and our school generally lets some younger kids get starts on those.  We do 3 team 9 hole matches after school, and 2 18 hole and a 36 hole tournament before school is in session.  Regionals and states are 18 holes at around 6600.  The 9 hole scores are pretty meaningless on an individual level and a lot aren't very close, but matches against the 3-4 rival schools are always pretty competitive and fun.

 

 

 

I'm guessing the distance complaint about HS golf is that 6500~6600 is more on par with AJGA preview and all-stars, whereas the more competitive juniors should be practicing/playing on Open 6800+ yards.

 

https://ajga.brightspotcdn.com/8b/b1/2c15d68d42dd966d8c679b1120dd/2023-ydg-and-scoring-avg-by-series-23.pdf

 

I'm fine with the shorter yardages.  Again, HS golf is for fun, not a gateway into elite college recruiting.

[Tugu]

16 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

Again, HS golf is for fun, not a gateway into elite college recruiting.

This seems to be the sensible summary of HS golf. 

 

Soon as I see HS golf in a player's bio, letter'd this and varsity'd that, I don't read on. The wins and high finishes in real events won't be buried after HS golf results. 

Edited March 15 by Tugu

[RmoorePE]

9 hours ago, Tugu said:

This seems to be the sensible summary of HS golf. 

 

Soon as I see HS golf in a player's bio, letter'd this and varsity'd that, I don't read on. The wins and high finishes in real events won't be buried after HS golf results. 

 

It is a sliding scale. If you look at D2 and smaller/directional D1 college player bios, you will see a lot of HS stuff. Not stuff like "made varsity" but "All CIF Team", "HS state 3rd place."

 

Those players don't typically have the high finishes in the regional/national events, but they are on the team no less.

[mrshinsa]

delete

Edited March 15 by mrshinsa

[ChipNRun]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:22 AM, kekoa said:

Regarding high school golf, I recently heard of a kid we know who get hit in the back with a driver by another kid on his own team. 

 

On 11/3/2023 at 11:34 AM, leezer99 said:

It’s because they are dumb high schoolers. The prefrontal cortex hasn’t developed yet in high school boys. They’re about as smart as a fairway bunker. 

 

I take issue with leezer99 insulting all high school boys. With adult supervision and training, boys can shaped to be reasonably responsible. It all comes with setting expectations.

 

The prefrontal cortex development is a valid phenomenon, but not a zero-one outcome. Best development involves shaping by adults. A generation ago boys and girls with frequent prefrontal cortex "problems" got grounded forever, or until they straightened up. They walked for two months until mom and dad let them drive (cars) again.

 

The dumb high schooler behavior can often be traced to the golf coach. A few years back I had not declared a home course, and ended up at the local off-course practice range a lot.

• One boys team would come in and spend their practice time goofing off and trash talking each other like on a pickup basketball court. The coach evidently just told them to show up.
• A second team would come in with purpose. Their coach gave them a few focus items for the day, and the boys went through the drills in good order.

 

Can you guess which team qualified for the state playoffs?

Edited Sunday at 12:06 AM by ChipNRun
Spelling.

[leezer99]

5 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

 

I take issue with leezer99 insulting all high school boys. With adult supervision and training, boys can shaped to be reasonably responsible. It all comes with setting expectations.

 

The prefrontal cortex development is a valid phenomenon, but not a zero-one outcome. Best development involves shaping by adults. A generation ago boys and girls with frequent prefrontal cortex "problems" got grounded forever, or until they straightened up. They walked for two months until mom and dad let them drive (cars) again.

 

The dumb high schooler behavior can often be traced to the golf coach. A few years back I had not declared a home course, and ended up at the local off-course practice range a lot.

• One boys team would come in and spend their practice time goofing off and trash talking each other like on a pickup basketball court. The coach evidently just told them to show up.
• A second team would come in with purpose. Their coach gave them a few focus items for the day, and the boys went through the drills in good order.

 

Can you guess which team qualified for the state playoffs?

I don’t know who made it to playoffs but I’d rather my kid have fun trash talking with his smooth brained friends than having regimented practices like they were in a Soviet era prison camp.