Shh... Its confidential...

[mrshinsa]

So as I'm gaining interest in this whole recruitment circus, I'm getting more and more tips and insights from parents who are going/went through the process. 

Interestingly enough, the ones who were/are in talks with some of the more elite schools are mum on the said schools.  Ones who share have strongly asked to keep the details confidentials.  

 

So why is it so secretive?  Do schools rescind if details leak?  Does the offer get diluted?  Are there some secret society rules they must adhere to? 

 

I for one would have a hard time keeping secrets from friends and family, when/if it becomes our turn.  

 

[golfdad1]

Our son wanted to keep things private, as rumors can fly fast and furious. We heard several about what his top schools were or where people heard he was going that made us laugh. They weren't even close to true! Also, a golfers friends might be talking to the same schools and it can become an awkward situation.

 

it's funny, in sports like football or basketball, kids post their offers on instagram all the time. Very different from golf.

 

another thing, in some Ivies (mainly Harvard), they ask you not to announce until the golfer actually gets into the school academically.

Edited February 20 by golfdad1

[golferdad8]

2 hours ago, golfdad1 said:

another thing, in some Ivies (mainly Harvard), they ask you not to announce until the golfer actually gets into the school academically.

this could be due to H being the only place over the years that’s had committed recruits get turned down by admissions, even with positive pre-reads & likely letter received. It’s no wonder the coach tells recruits not to say anything until after receiving the official admit letter. 
 

[Tugu]

7 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

So as I'm gaining interest in this whole recruitment circus, I'm getting more and more tips and insights from parents who are going/went through the process. 

Interestingly enough, the ones who were/are in talks with some of the more elite schools are mum on the said schools.  Ones who share have strongly asked to keep the details confidentials.  

 

So why is it so secretive?  Do schools rescind if details leak?  Does the offer get diluted?  Are there some secret society rules they must adhere to? 

 

I for one would have a hard time keeping secrets from friends and family, when/if it becomes our turn.  

 

 

My take on the secrecy is that certain candidates are simply not very good and are there by virtue of a "built and managed" schedule. More power to the parents that saw the loopholes and weaknesses in the system and took advantege for the benefit of their children. But one can imagine those parents not wanting their kid's records being brought into the spotlight. Scrutiny kind of defeats all their efforts.

 

A kid like Asterisk Talley that plays and wins ALL events big and small has nothing to hide. But those kids similarly ranked via a stage managed junior career wants no part of this type of schedule.

 

Asterisk's record shows she's happy to play low JGS weighted events in Northern California. She's not running all over the country looking for specific events to boost her ranking. Her travels are for invitationals. The same was the case for Dechambeau, K Chappell, M Weaver, P Kuest, Van Gaalen etc

 

Go through a list of Rolex All Americans for the past few years, it's easy to spot the difference. One recent guy stroke averaged almost 80 in big name college and had his low round as par, which he achieved twice in a year. But at least his parents got him a good education, albeit at the cost of a more deserving player.

 

In conclusion, talk invites scrutiny. Which can possibly reveal to all and sundry that said child is not as good as the rankings would suggest them to be. There's little upside in such a revelation.

Edited February 20 by Tugu

[LawGenius305]

11 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

So as I'm gaining interest in this whole recruitment circus, I'm getting more and more tips and insights from parents who are going/went through the process. 

Interestingly enough, the ones who were/are in talks with some of the more elite schools are mum on the said schools.  Ones who share have strongly asked to keep the details confidentials.  

 

So why is it so secretive?  Do schools rescind if details leak?  Does the offer get diluted?  Are there some secret society rules they must adhere to? 

 

I for one would have a hard time keeping secrets from friends and family, when/if it becomes our turn.  

 

They don't want players/families comparing notes.

[st1800e]

I expect there will be a contract involved.  When negotiating contracts it’s not helpful sharing details of negotiations publicly, or even to a few outside the parties involved.

Can only have negative consequences, and no benefit to either party.  
 

If you don’t respect the other party’s wishes, how would you expect them to respect yours? 

[third-times-a-charm]

4 hours ago, gerryluvsgolf1 said:

There is not enough money for all the players playing golf. It not very exciting to hear that johnny or susie is a walk on or only got 20-30% to play at a school.

 

 

My kids arent at this age group yet, but we're constantly told "Keep those kids playing golf! Theres unfilled scholarships every year!" especially in regards to the girls.

[mrshinsa]

21 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

My kids arent at this age group yet, but we're constantly told "Keep those kids playing golf! Theres unfilled scholarships every year!" especially in regards to the girls.

 

This is deserving of a separate thread, because this is what I've heard in the beginning, and the opposite is what I'm finding in reality.

[Jkhogbear]

Recruiting is all over the place from our experience.  Some schools value you and some won’t even return your email.  It’s very perplexing.  Go somewhere that values your kid is may key takeaway 

[MB19]

Coming from the recruiting world of Florida HS football, it does seem surreal how stark the differences are between how the process is handled for golf and how it is handled for football.

 

Football:  HS players have player pages where they have an offer list posted, coupled with pics to commemorate official visits and in-school visits made by college coaches.  Coaches famously battle over to recruits, and sometimes it’s even covered by the media.  The most powerful coaches in the country, who can make up to eight-figures, all but live and die by what hat a top recruit is wearing on said player’s social media leading up to signing day.  Oftentimes, players coming from the most humble of family backgrounds are dictating the pace and direction of the process for millionaire coaches working for the most financially endowed sports programs in America.  This is all before getting into the illegal money involved before NIL.

 

Basketball: (see above, but add in a he influence of AAU coaches and basketball shoe companies, who are in many cases working in concert to drive players to certain schools)

 

Golf:  HS players are told to, in some cases, keep offers quiet and to certainly not post an offer list.  Finding out who has what offers can happen by word of-mouth (better be careful!), but posting details on social media is seen as bad form and can cost a recruit an offer and/or offer money.  Players often come from substantial means and privileged backgrounds, only to have the process dictated to them by coaches who very possibly make less money and have less education than their parents do.

 

The dichotomy of the recruitment processes here is wild.

[Jkhogbear]

8 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Golf:  HS players are told to, in some cases, keep offers quiet and to certainly not post an offer list.  Finding out who has what offers can happen by word of-mouth (better be careful!), but posting details on social media is seen as bad form and can cost a recruit an offer and/or offer money.  Players often come from substantial means and privileged backgrounds, only to have the process dictated to them by coaches who very possibly make less money and have less education than their parents do.

 

The dichotomy of the recruitment processes here is wild.

This is very accurate.  Some coaches will

assume you are well off financially and would gladly pay for the privilege of being on the team also.

[killer21]

As a dad of a 2027, Our family is just dipping the toe in to this now on the women's side...though we haven't had much success on the course other than local stuff so hoping for a good spring and some success stories on the course as the swing speed appears to be there at a college level already.  Scoring just has to catch up.  I do find golf a secretive culture, everyone has there own plan to success whatever success is for each individual.  Funny on IG and trackman swings, most posts end when before the numbers come up 😁

[kcap]

Are you talking when the Junior is speaking with a lot of schools or once they have verbally committed?   

When speaking to schools I do not see any reason why they should share information unless with their family/coaches and close friends.  I do not mean golf buddies or the those that want to know just for the sake of knowing.

 

Once committed, i think most kids share online or with the community.  The actual details of the commitment should be confidential - especially since it is team game.  Although, in our experience the coaches have been very transparent on how they allocate money and pretty easy to figure out where everyone on the team would be relative to your position.  I compare this to a year end bonus discussion, it is confidential but everyone can figure it out. 

[golfortennis]

4 hours ago, LawGenius305 said:

They don't want players/families comparing notes.

 

When I first read the OP, the thing that came to mind was how back in the day, professional athletes were told to keep their salary secret and not tell any other players.  Because it gave the suits another element of control.

 

This reeks of the same mentality.  

[AUSweeper]

8 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

 

This is deserving of a separate thread, because this is what I've heard in the beginning, and the opposite is what I'm finding in reality.

I couldn’t tell you how many times people have told me or my boys that at the golf course.  I just go along with them.  No chance they would understand the concept of partial scholarships.  

[Golfquant]

On 2/19/2024 at 10:28 PM, mrshinsa said:

So as I'm gaining interest in this whole recruitment circus, I'm getting more and more tips and insights from parents who are going/went through the process. 

Interestingly enough, the ones who were/are in talks with some of the more elite schools are mum on the said schools.  Ones who share have strongly asked to keep the details confidentials.  

 

So why is it so secretive?  Do schools rescind if details leak?  Does the offer get diluted?  Are there some secret society rules they must adhere to? 

 

I for one would have a hard time keeping secrets from friends and family, when/if it becomes our turn.  

 

here is an example of why things might be kept confidential (especially which schools an athlete is considering):

https://06880danwoog.com/2024/01/18/college-admissions-stress-a-sad-tale-of-student-sabotage/

 

I think most parents and students are well-intentioned and decent human beings.  I have had the pleasure of getting to know a few of you personally, and I can say I would definitely feel comfortable sharing and helping.  

 

However, I also know of an overly paranoid/aspirational parent at my child's school who sent a photo to the college coach of a recruited high school athlete holding a red solo cup at a party; the parent's child was not an athlete, but was also applying early (same admission round as recruits), so they thought this would improve their chances of admission: zero-sum game

[LawGenius305]

22 hours ago, third-times-a-charm said:

My kids arent at this age group yet, but we're constantly told "Keep those kids playing golf! Theres unfilled scholarships every year!" especially in regards to the girls.

20 years ago this was true. This is not true today, even in regards to girls.

[LawGenius305]

22 hours ago, mrshinsa said:

 

This is deserving of a separate thread, because this is what I've heard in the beginning, and the opposite is what I'm finding in reality.

The issue today is transfer portal and funding. There are less offers going out from the D1 level. Trickle effect happening at D2 and D3 levels because of it. South Carolina -Aiken, a D2 program, just came in 2nd in a D1 tournament. D1 Schools aren't taking as many risks today because they don't have to. A kid they would take pre-covid isn't getting the same opportunities today. Why would a coach take a risk on a kid when they can pick up what they need from the transfer portal?

[jholz]

One of the interesting phenomena that has emerged in all of this is - the "Pay to Play D3 School."

 

It consists of a small, out of the way D3 school with semi-impressive athletic credentials. My wife worked at one. 

 

1. They target/recruit marginal athletes out of high schools.

 

2. Promise a "chance to play."

 

3. Milk parents for money. 

 

4. Provide sub-standard education. 

 

5. Rinse and repeat. 

 

I'd be wary out there these days - both athlete and university commitments are pretty dodgy. 

[LawGenius305]

36 minutes ago, jholz said:

One of the interesting phenomena that has emerged in all of this is - the "Pay to Play D3 School."

 

It consists of a small, out of the way D3 school with semi-impressive athletic credentials. My wife worked at one. 

 

1. They target/recruit marginal athletes out of high schools.

 

2. Promise a "chance to play."

 

3. Milk parents for money. 

 

4. Provide sub-standard education. 

 

5. Rinse and repeat. 

 

I'd be wary out there these days - both athlete and university commitments are pretty dodgy. 

This wreaks of someone that doesn't really understand what the recruiting landscape is today.

Edited February 21 by LawGenius305

[jholz]

13 minutes ago, LawGenius305 said:

This wreaks of someone that doesn't really understand what the recruiting landscape is today.

 

This reeks of someone unable to spell... 🙂 Sorry dude, couldn't resist. 

 

And yeah, you are right. I know nothing of recruiting - but I do know a hell of a lot about the economics of higher education. 

 

Lots of little bits of truth out there mon frer. A single perspective will never provide the whole story. 

[LawGenius305]

6 hours ago, jholz said:

 

This reeks of someone unable to spell... 🙂 Sorry dude, couldn't resist. 

 

And yeah, you are right. I know nothing of recruiting - but I do know a hell of a lot about the economics of higher education. 

 

Lots of little bits of truth out there mon frer. A single perspective will never provide the whole story. 

The majority of kids playing college golf are paying 10k-30k to go to school to play golf at the D1 to D3 level. Getting a full ride is like finding a needle in the haystack. There are kids that do, but that is not the norm and usually combined with academic money or moneys that are found elsewhere. It is a myth that the D3 level doesn't have money for kids. Private Institutions with endowments can find money to get to kids.

 

I would take an Emory, Carnegie, Williams, Swarthmore, University of Chicago education and many others over many D1 and D2 schools. 

Edited February 21 by LawGenius305

[golferdad8]

19 minutes ago, gerryluvsgolf1 said:

Keep in mind this means that the school is fully funded and offer the maximum.  Some schools have less money than the NCAA allows. Also DII is less as well. (the best deals are not the highest ranked golf programs)

 

 

Some great UC schools have only 1.5 spots funded for the golf team per year...meanwhile, other state schools' players are getting NIL deals for $50k+ per year and cars 🙂

[jholz]

1 hour ago, LawGenius305 said:

The majority of kids playing college golf are paying 10k-30k to go to school to play golf a the D1 to D3 level. Getting a full ride is like finding a needle in the haystack. There are kids that do, but that is not the norm and usually combined with academic money or moneys that are found elsewhere. It is a myth that the D3 level doesn't have money for kids. Private Institutions with endowments can find money to get to kids.

 

I would take an Emory, Carnegie, Williams, Swarthmore, University of Chicago education and many others over many D1 and D2 schools. 

 

Yeah man, I think we are misunderstanding each other.

 

You are mentioning some of the most prestigious schools in the nation. Places people have actually heard of. Also recruiting in a general sense. 

 

I'm talking about a very small, and specific slice of the market. It consists of local colleges few have heard of. Lots of them across central PA and Michigan.

[mrshinsa]

Thank you everyone for the insight and comments.

 

To give a better context, these kinda hush-hush situations happen both while the juniors are in talks and/or when they have a verbal offer from schools(but the said junior has not decided).

 

I've also seen this happen with kids who are talking with Ivy, so they aren't trying to hide due to shame, etc...   

 

One dad flat out told me "Oh, I can't tell you that..."  

 

 

[LawGenius305]

2 hours ago, jholz said:

 

Yeah man, I think we are misunderstanding each other.

 

You are mentioning some of the most prestigious schools in the nation. Places people have actually heard of. Also recruiting in a general sense. 

 

I'm talking about a very small, and specific slice of the market. It consists of local colleges few have heard of. Lots of them across central PA and Michigan.

Gotcha. Just can't lump all into the same category. There are some great Academic D3's and there are great Golf D 3's that will challenge D3 and D1 programs. Methodist fits the latter category and Emory both.

[iteachgolf]

7 hours ago, gerryluvsgolf1 said:

 

This is not happening in golf based on the NIL deals I have seen published.  If you can get any significant money for NIL as a golf player you not staying an amatuer for any length of time.

 

Other sports such as football and basketball are totally different animals when it comes to where they can play and who pays them.  Other then the $10 deals you see posted on websites I doubt you ever see much NIL money for golf players who stay in college.

There’s WAY more money in NIL than you’re giving credit to golfers.  I teach several and know of quite a few more who are making quite a bit of money as golfers, some well into 6 figures.  Companies are giving some of the top guys coming out of college in PGATOUR U well into the 7 figure range the moment they graduate.  

[iteachgolf]

45 minutes ago, gerryluvsgolf1 said:

 

In the few cases of golf NIL agreements It looks like it basically was a golfer who was about to turn pro and structured a deal early to continue to play a few more college tournaments.   In those cases the minute they turned pro they were going to sign a deal anyways.

 

The vast majority of college golfers or even college athletes for that matter are not offered much at all if anything. This is true at even top programs.

Agree to disagree. These guys (and girls) are getting paid and have been for years, not just right before they turn pro.  

[golfortennis]

10 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

There’s WAY more money in NIL than you’re giving credit to golfers.  I teach several and know of quite a few more who are making quite a bit of money as golfers, some well into 6 figures.  Companies are giving some of the top guys coming out of college in PGATOUR U well into the 7 figure range the moment they graduate.  

 

So are these kids getting NIL while in school, or signing endorsement deals once they graduate?  It may seem pedantic but these are two different things, even if the discussions/agreements are made while in school.

[iteachgolf]

17 minutes ago, golfortennis said:

 

So are these kids getting NIL while in school, or signing endorsement deals once they graduate?  It may seem pedantic but these are two different things, even if the discussions/agreements are made while in school.

While in school. Hence me calling it a NIL deal.