Tip trimming tapered shafts?

[dffjunior]

From what I understand tapered shafts are .370 that are pre-tipped to club spec and then tapered to .355 to fit hosels?  I ask because my irons are .370 so I should be ok to tip trim a tapered shaft and even if I end up cutting through the taper it would still fit in .370 irons?  I got hold of a full length 3 iron shaft but want to put it into a 4 iron and hard-step it a time or two so I would be tipping it an inch or more.

 

I have some old DG's from my DCI 990's I could experiment with but was hoping someone else could confirm (or talk me down if necessary) first?

[Stuart_G]

34 minutes ago, dffjunior said:

From what I understand tapered shafts are .370 that are pre-tipped to club spec and then tapered to .355 to fit hosels?  I ask because my irons are .370 so I should be ok to tip trim a tapered shaft and even if I end up cutting through the taper it would still fit in .370 irons?  I got hold of a full length 3 iron shaft but want to put it into a 4 iron and hard-step it a time or two so I would be tipping it an inch or more.

 

I have some old DG's from my DCI 990's I could experiment with but was hoping someone else could confirm (or talk me down if necessary) first?

 

You're understanding isn't 100%.    Most taper tip shafts are not the same as single length blanks that are "pre-tipped" and have a taper added.  They are completely different designs.   Single length blank shaft have long parallel tip sections so they can be tipped and still have the tip size stay at .370".   Most taper tip designs do not.    Graphite taper tip shafts are typically not made with a taper and have use a machine to add the taper - but there is no tipping done.   Steel shaft might have the taper added as a second step or might have the taper included in the original die used to form the shaft.

 

But the answer depends how much you might want to tip them.     The other difference between taper tip and single length blank parallel tip (especially with graphite shafts) is how long is the reinforced section of the shaft tip is that is designed to handle the high stresses at the top of the hosel.   Take off too much of the tip and you increase the risk of the shaft breaking (or bending with steel) at the top of the hosel when impacting hard ground or mat.

 

Now that said, you can usually get away with 1/2" of tipping.  But I wouldn't push it much more than that for graphite shafts.  For steel I'd want to check (with calipers) at what point the OD of the shaft starts to increase beyond that 0.370" to determine the max amount of tipping.

Edited March 24 by Stuart_G

[Nessism]

DG shafts are NOT .370 above the taper.  They quickly flare to a size larger than .370.  Therein lies the rub; there are no standard rules of thumb regarding shaft sizing.  Buy some calipers, if you don't have a set already, and measure.  Don't assume anything...

 

Additionally, many steel taper tip sets are constant weight.  Each shaft length is a unique item, unlike .370 unitized shafts, which are cut down to size from a standard blank size to fit the club in question.  Shafts like this are lighter as they get shorter.  

Edited March 24 by Nessism

[dffjunior]

2 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

But the answer depends how much you might want to tip them.     The other difference between taper tip and parallel tip shaft is the length of the portion of the shaft that stays at 0.370" above the hosel in a normal installation.  Or especially with graphite shafts - how long is the reinforced section of the shaft tip is that is designed to handle the high stresses at the top of the hosel.   Take off too much of the tip and you increase the risk of the shaft breaking at the top of the hosel when impacting hard ground or mat.

 

Now that said, you can usually get away with 1/2" of tipping.  But I wouldn't push it much more than that for graphite shafts.  For steel I'd want to check at what point the OD of the shaft starts to increase beyond that 0.370" to determine the max amount of tipping.

 

That's great information and the kind of thing I was after.  I'm talking about steel shafts, but point noted should graphite ever enter the discussion.  Is there a way to determine this point?

 

I'd like to tip it 1" to start and maybe another .5" subsequently but I'll check with the calipers later today to see how much room I have at .370.  Do steel shafts have similar reinforcement/buildup points within the parallel section I need to not intrude upon?

 

11 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

Steel shaft might have the taper added as a second step or might have the taper included in the original die used to form the shaft.

 

Is there a known resource as to which manufacturers use which technique?  I would expect from a mass production perspective it would be much more efficient to produce all parallel and then just cut/taper to spec, otherwise you need 8-9 different dies and inventory processes.

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, dffjunior said:

 Is there a way to determine this point?

 

Not without dissecting the shaft to see how the wall thickness changes along the length of the tip.  It's the change in the inner diameter that will show that, nothing on the outside.

 

 

2 hours ago, dffjunior said:

Do steel shafts have similar reinforcement/buildup points within the parallel section I need to not intrude upon?

 

If you want to believe all the people complaining about KBS shafts bending at the tip when other's shafts do not, then yes it's very likely that some steel shafts do increase the wall thickness near the tip to help with the additional stresses.   It's a lot more subtle in steel shafts so harder to notice - but it is probably there to some extent in some shafts.

 

2 hours ago, dffjunior said:

Is there a known resource as to which manufacturers use which technique?

 

No - but it doesn't really matter from the standpoint of the end result and the context you're interested.   It's just a matter of whether it's a one step or two step process.   Probably a pretty good guess can be made that those who manufacture discrete length shafts with both .355" tp and .370" parallel tips (Nippon and some older PX shaft releases) used a two step process and just skip the second step for the parallel tip release.

 

Edited March 24 by Stuart_G

[rollen]

I have trimmed taper tips 3/8” and they still fit into .355 tapered hosels, so 1/2” should probably be fine for a  .370 hosel.   You’ll probably need to trim 1 inch to get to a single hard step since the 3 iron would be a 1x softstepped in the 4 iron by default. The first 1/2” would get you to a non-stepped 4 iron.  Not sure what a full inch would do as far as the integrity of the shaft.
 

Also, brass shims will help get the shaft to fit properly. 
https://www.golfworks.com/the-golfworks-brass-adaptor-shims/p/shim/

 

 

[chisag]

2 hours ago, Nessism said:

DG shafts are NOT .370 above the taper.  They quickly flare to a size larger than .370.  Therein lies the rub; there are no standard rules of thumb regarding shaft sizing.  Buy some calipers, if you don't have a set already, and measure.  Don't assume anything...

 

Additionally, many steel taper tip sets are constant weight.  Each shaft length is a unique item, unlike .370 unitized shafts, which are cut down to size from a standard blank size to fit the club in question.  Shafts like this are lighter as they get shorter.  

 

 

... Many years ago when I was assembling a set of Snake Eyes 600 MB/CB combo I installed a set of DG .370 in stiff flex thinking they would be the same as the DG .355's in stiff flex I had been playing. Trimming according the True Temper, they felt different and played different. They felt stouter and when we measured them the frequency was indeed a good deal stiffer and not as linear as the taper tips. I haven't played 370's ever since and only play .355 and shim them if necessary. 

[Socrates]

5 hours ago, dffjunior said:

I'm talking about steel shafts, but point noted should graphite ever enter the discussion.  Is there a way to determine this point?

 

I'd like to tip it 1" to start and maybe another .5" subsequently but I'll check with the calipers later today to see how much room I have at .370.  Do steel shafts have similar reinforcement/buildup points within the parallel section I need to not intrude upon?

 

 

Is there a known resource as to which manufacturers use which technique?  I would expect from a mass production perspective it would be much more efficient to produce all parallel and then just cut/taper to spec, otherwise you need 8-9 different dies and inventory processes.

Steel shafts that are going to be tapered are designed and made tapered from the start.  You don't make a tapered steel shaft out of a parallel steel shaft.  Yes it is done in the production process, but the shaft is designed to become tapered.  They don't design a parallel shaft and alter it during the production process.  If you have ever seen a steel shaft made on YouTube, you would see that there aren't separate dies for each.  It is a matter of drawing out the steel shaft differently using the same machine.

 

Tipping a tapered steel shaft always has to be done carefully and with lots of measurements.  It doesn't take much of a mistake to end up with a bunch of tomato stakes.

 

 

 

Edited March 24 by Socrates

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Tomato stakes.... LOL

When I put the plastic cup on the end of the shaft when assembling the 3-Iron, it was an extremely snug fit at the end. Without the cup, there was some play. So there is some tolerance on tipping but as stated above it isn't going to be a lot and dare I say an inch would be suspect. Those plastic cups are meant to enable a .370 fit at the end to keep it straight.

[denkea]

On 3/24/2024 at 6:12 PM, Socrates said:

You don't make a tapered steel shaft out of a parallel steel shaft.

Years ago the Royal Precision rifle shafts were all .370 and after sorting/weighing/frequencying they were 'swedged' to .355.  

[Socrates]

10 minutes ago, denkea said:

Years ago the Royal Precision rifle shafts were all .370 and after sorting/weighing/frequencying they were 'swedged' to .355.  

And it didn't go well.  I was unfortunate enough to get a bunch (about a 1000) of those types of shafts thrust upon me.  About 50% were unusable because you couldn't get them into the head.

[Jagall75]

Quick question that is semi related.  I was experimenting with a taper tip steel shaft, and cut 3/4” off the tip. It still fit inside a 370 hosel, although very snug. Would this work or does there need to be a little space for the epoxy bond correctly?  

[Socrates]

13 minutes ago, Jagall75 said:

Quick question that is semi related.  I was experimenting with a taper tip steel shaft, and cut 3/4” off the tip. It still fit inside a 370 hosel, although very snug. Would this work or does there need to be a little space for the epoxy bond correctly?  

There is a fine line between snug and too snug.  Too snug and you will not have any epoxy bonding the shaft to the hosel wall.  Typically, you should have about 5/1000's" clearance for optimal bonding.

[cliche]

sorry for the slight of topic, but I didn't wanted to start a new thread for this question. 
I would like to re-shaft my Srixon MK5 Gen1 (currently with a Myasaki shaft) with a Steelfiber Shaft. The Steelfiber Shaft has a .370 tip. Does that fit in the MK5 head? Where can I get those informations?
Thanks for the help

[Socrates]

1 hour ago, cliche said:

sorry for the slight of topic, but I didn't wanted to start a new thread for this question. 
I would like to re-shaft my Srixon MK5 Gen1 (currently with a Myasaki shaft) with a Steelfiber Shaft. The Steelfiber Shaft has a .370 tip. Does that fit in the MK5 head? Where can I get those informations?
Thanks for the help

Srixon irons all seem to be .355" taper hosels.  You have two options:

- ream the hosels to .370"

- taper the tips to fit.

 

Reaming requires a special reaming bit for that purpose and is done by hand (buy off Golfworks).  Tapering the shafts is easy if you have done it before.  Not so much for those that aren't familiar with that process or good with tools.

[Howard_Jones]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:18 PM, Socrates said:

And it didn't go well.  I was unfortunate enough to get a bunch (about a 1000) of those types of shafts thrust upon me.  About 50% were unusable because you couldn't get them into the head.

Both RIFLE FCM (descending wgt) and Project X (constant wgt) was the same shaft for both Tip options, the taper was added as a extra step in production, and i never heard about hosel insert issues with PX tapers, so why would that happen to RIFLE FCM?

PS i NEVER worked with RIFLE FCM tapers, i used 44.00" 0.370 Tour van blanks, so i have zero experience with Rifle FCM tapers, but i know how both was made.

[Howard_Jones]

9 hours ago, Socrates said:

Srixon irons all seem to be .355" taper hosels.  You have two options:

- ream the hosels to .370"

- taper the tips to fit.

 

Reaming requires a special reaming bit for that purpose and is done by hand (buy off Golfworks).  Tapering the shafts is easy if you have done it before.  Not so much for those that aren't familiar with that process or good with tools.

GOOD info, im just adding a video of a ream job, since it sound like a "big deal" and scary stuff, but its not, its idiot proof, so for a hobbyist its the safe route. What we remove is next to dust, so we do NOT weaken the hosel or anything close to that