Hypothetical... Would Walter Hagen be the all time Major winner if he had 4 tournaments to win in his prime?

[mosesgolf]

59 minutes ago, hollabachgt said:

This is not statistically true in the slightest.

 

Just because a large population participates in a task doesn’t mean they perform the task well. China has close to a half billion automobile drivers . That’s twice as many as the US, and ~10x higher than the UK and Germany. Yet when you look at F1 there has only been a single Chinese driver to ever compete. The fact that they have more drivers does not correlate to them having better F1 drivers.

 

There are 2.5x more golfers in the US than all of Europe, yet the 12 best from Europe regularly beat the 12 best from the US in the Ryder Cup. You would say that should not be possible.
 

 

Ok.  I guess that's why China produced the best table tennis players in the world (aka Ping Pong) since a billion of them play and none of them drive F1 cars.  I'm starting to see the big picture now.  Kind of ties into that 1.1 in a billion leg I'm standing on.  Got it now.

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, mosesgolf said:

Ok.  I guess that's why China produced the best table tennis players in the world (aka Ping Pong) since a billion of them play and none of them drive F1 cars.  I'm starting to see the big picture now.  Kind of ties into that 1.1 in a billion leg I'm standing on.  Got it now.

 

Hey man, just like in "Shane" the storekeeper already said, "you've won" - you just didn't hear him!  He's just prolonging the nonsense with more nonsense - don't bite!

[tatertot]

3 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

Hey man, just like in "Shane" the storekeeper already said, "you've won" - you just didn't hear him!  He's just prolonging the nonsense with more nonsense - don't bite!

Does anybody ever win on GolfWRX?

 

It's more like degrees of suffering the least ... A lot like marriage.

[Hawkeye77]

1 minute ago, tatertot said:

Does anybody ever win on GolfWRX?

 

It's more like degrees of suffering the least ... A lot like marriage.

Very good point - sometimes we just wear out!

[mosesgolf]

Just now, tatertot said:

Does anybody ever win on GolfWRX?

 

It's more like degrees of suffering the least ... A lot like marriage.

Well Tater you got me on the 1 in 1.1 billion.  I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong.  That 3 footer good ftw.  

 

[Hawkeye77]

Just now, mosesgolf said:

Well Tater you got me on the 1 in 1.1 billion.  I'll be the first to admit when I'm wrong.  That 3 footer good ftw.  

 

And I think you know I wasn't referring to tatertot!

[iBanesto]

14 hours ago, hollabachgt said:

This is not statistically true in the slightest.

 

Just because a large population participates in a task doesn’t mean they perform the task well. China has close to a half billion automobile drivers . That’s twice as many as the US, and ~10x higher than the UK and Germany. Yet when you look at F1 there has only been a single Chinese driver to ever compete. The fact that they have more drivers does not correlate to them having better F1 drivers.

 

There are 2.5x more golfers in the US than all of Europe, yet the 12 best from Europe regularly beat the 12 best from the US in the Ryder Cup. You would say that should not be possible.
 

 

 

How is day to day car driving remotely the same thing as competitive car racing?!

 

Most F1 drivers in more recent times come from competitive kart racing. Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Hamilton for example. That is a better metric for producing F1 drivers or competitive racers.

 

Sporting culture, environment and facilities are some other critical factors in producing sportspeople.

[hollabachgt]

2 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

How is day to day car driving remotely the same thing as competitive car racing?!

 

Most F1 drivers in more recent times come from competitive kart racing. Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Hamilton for example. That is a better metric for producing F1 drivers or competitive racers.

 

Sporting culture, environment and facilities are some other critical factors in producing sportspeople.

Casual weekend golf has about as much in common with major championship golf as day to day driving has in common with formula one. The two activities may fundamentally be similar but in application are worlds apart.
 

you’re spot on in your final paragraph. There are substantial outside factors that are often more critical than simply population of participants.

[hollabachgt]

17 hours ago, mosesgolf said:

Forgive me HBgt for using ChatGpt on this again lol

 

"Therefore, the chance of not selecting any of the 100 best from the pool of 1 million is approximately 1.105 billion times, or 1105000000 times, less likely than from the pool of 50 million."

 

Ok then you and HBgt stick to your 1.1 in a billion argument lol.  Or maybe I'm wrong and we had a perfect storm with Jones and Hagen.  But in all seriousness you are correct Tater.  I stand corrected.

 

I’d be curious to see the prompt you provided to ChatGPT. Were there any assumptions made in characterizing the two test groups? Did you use equal ranges and distributions of the players ability, or were they weighted in some way? Did you attempt to normalize other factors related to the playing of the game beyond population?

[bscinstnct]

2 hours ago, iBanesto said:

 

How is day to day car driving remotely the same thing as competitive car racing?!

 

Most F1 drivers in more recent times come from competitive kart racing. Senna, Schumacher, Vettel and Hamilton for example. That is a better metric for producing F1 drivers or competitive racers.

 

Sporting culture, environment and facilities are some other critical factors in producing sportspeople.

 

Yes, “sporting culture” is everything 

 

20MM people ski in US

 

Norway has a total population of only 5.5MM

 

And yet,

 

 

 

 

[iBanesto]

58 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yes, “sporting culture” is everything 

 

20MM people ski in US

 

Norway has a total population of only 5.5MM

 

And yet,

 

 

 

 

 

I never said sporting culture was everything. I said it is one of many other factors.

 

Also don't Americans alpine/downhill ski more than cross country ski anyway.

 

US is 3rd in the all time Olympic medal rankings for alpine skiing which is very respectable given the pantheon of other more popular sports in the country.

 

Rank	Nation	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
1	Austria (AUT)	40	44	44	128
2	Switzerland (SUI)	27	23	25	75
3	United States (USA)	17	21	10	48
4	France (FRA)	16	17	18	51
5	Italy (ITA)	14	11	11	36
6	Germany (GER)[a]	12	8	7	27
7	Norway (NOR)	11	14	15	40
8	Sweden (SWE)	8	2	9	19
9	Croatia (CRO)	4	6	0	10
10	Canada (CAN)	4	1	7	12

 

[iBanesto]

1 hour ago, hollabachgt said:

Casual weekend golf has about as much in common with major championship golf as day to day driving has in common with formula one. The two activities may fundamentally be similar but in application are worlds apart.
 

you’re spot on in your final paragraph. There are substantial outside factors that are often more critical than simply population of participants.

 

A round of golf is closer to top level golf (in terms of rules, equipment and scoring etc) than day to day driving (e.g. driving to the shops) is to top level competitive car racing. When you're driving around, you're not racing against other cars.

 

You can't improve to be a top level racer by just driving around your streets, while you can improve your golf game to a high level on a golf course.

 

 

[bscinstnct]

15 minutes ago, iBanesto said:

 

I never said sporting culture was everything. I said it is one of many other factors.

 

Also don't Americans alpine/downhill ski more than cross country ski anyway.

 

US is 3rd in the all time Olympic medal rankings for alpine skiing which is very respectable given the pantheon of other more popular sports in the country.

 

Rank	Nation	Gold	Silver	Bronze	Total
1	Austria (AUT)	40	44	44	128
2	Switzerland (SUI)	27	23	25	75
3	United States (USA)	17	21	10	48
4	France (FRA)	16	17	18	51
5	Italy (ITA)	14	11	11	36
6	Germany (GER)[a]	12	8	7	27
7	Norway (NOR)	11	14	15	40
8	Sweden (SWE)	8	2	9	19
9	Croatia (CRO)	4	6	0	10
10	Canada (CAN)	4	1	7	12

 

 

 

🤣

Edited April 4 by bscinstnct

[gvogel]

1 hour ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Yes, “sporting culture” is everything 

 

20MM people ski in US

 

Norway has a total population of only 5.5MM

 

And yet,

 

 

 

 

That just proves that it is damn cold in Norway, Sweden, Finland and the old Soviet Union!

[widow-maker]

3 of the most talented players, raw talent, to play the game were Tom Weiskopf, Greg Norman, and Adam Scott.  All 3 had the talent to win handfuls of majors.... and yet, they didn't.  And then you have a Gary Player who won 9 of them.  Why?  There's just something different in some people that enables them to succeed beyond reason.  Nicklaus and Tiger are the 2 most obvious.  How does Nick Faldo win 5 majors and Colin Montgomerie, Sergio Garcia, and Lee Westwood have 1 between them.  It's not talent level.  Certain individuals have mental abilities that supersede in high moments of stress.  When you look back over the history of golf, you can see who those people were.  For the truly great ones, it's not about strength of field.  It's far more nuanced than that. 

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, widow-maker said:

3 of the most talented players, raw talent, to play the game were Tom Weiskopf, Greg Norman, and Adam Scott.  All 3 had the talent to win handfuls of majors.... and yet, they didn't.  And then you have a Gary Player who won 9 of them.  Why?  There's just something different in some people that enables them to succeed beyond reason.  Nicklaus and Tiger are the 2 most obvious.  How does Nick Faldo win 5 majors and Colin Montgomerie, Sergio Garcia, and Lee Westwood have 1 between them.  It's not talent level.  Certain individuals have mental abilities that supersede in high moments of stress.  When you look back over the history of golf, you can see who those people were.  For the truly great ones, it's not about strength of field.  It's far more nuanced than that. 

Some of that is easily agreed to…..but, like so many when you speak of “talent” you are clearly referring to ballstriking ability.  But some of those like Scott and Sergio were mediocre putters and some were short of around the green skills.  Weiskopf, for instance, likely had a bit of the early Nicklaus to his game. Jack used to say that before going to Phil Rodgers his short game was mediocre….but that he didn’t need it. As he got a bit older and his advantage over the other players lessened he realized he needed to shore up his short game.