I thought lag/shaft lean create speed, I was dead wrong

[Golfimprovejourney]

So I've been working on a more rotational swing for some time now. Went to the range the other day recorded a few swings, face on showed tour  amount of shaft lean, but here's the problem.

Im hitting the ball VERY low. I knew that shaft lean delofts the club face and I'd hit the ball more penetrating but I didn't think THIS LOW, like barely above head high on some shots.

 

some shots I hit the ball almost as high as my usual flight, but I might've flipped. My normal apex with a 7iron for example is usually about 100ft, now it's 40-45ft  in the air on average. And I wasn't hitting it further either,.wasn't making that crisp sound on any shot. Probably was hitting the ball 15-20 shorter  on almost every iron shot.

 

Maybe I NEED to flip in order to create speed, when I use my body better and hands get just a little more ahead at impact, I'm hitting it much lower and shorter.

 

look at this student Milo's working with. Poor sequenced swing/ flips a lot, still swings his driver 190 MPH.

 

Shows that when it comes to speed you either have it or you don't. Speed training is really the only option

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

Trying to hold all the lag is likely causing you to slow down without hitting the ball with an extremely open club face. Lag is pretty much a curse word on this forum lol.

[MonteScheinblum]

This has been backwards for 100 years.

 

Sequencing properly and speed create lag and shaft lean, not the other way around.

[Golfimprovejourney]

42 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

This has been backwards for 100 years.

 

Sequencing properly and speed create lag and shaft lean, not the other way around.

That's not what I meant 

 

I know that holding lag never works, but what I'm saying is using your body correctly to create that lag isn't going to make you that much faster. You're not gonna go from swinging your driver 95 to 115 bc your sequence is better.

 

Watch the video, Milo's student swings his driver 130 club speed with a ton of swing flaws, it's genetics 

[GolferPerson1]

50 minutes ago, Golfimprovejourney said:

That's not what I meant 

 

I know that holding lag never works, but what I'm saying is using your body correctly to create that lag isn't going to make you that much faster. You're not gonna go from swinging your driver 95 to 115 bc your sequence is better.

 

Watch the video, Milo's student swings his driver 130 club speed with a ton of swing flaws, it's genetics 

 

And they also said he could probably hit 140 if he had better technique.

[MonteScheinblum]

44 minutes ago, Golfimprovejourney said:

That's not what I meant 

 

I know that holding lag never works, but what I'm saying is using your body correctly to create that lag isn't going to make you that much faster. You're not gonna go from swinging your driver 95 to 115 bc your sequence is better.

 

Watch the video, Milo's student swings his driver 130 club speed with a ton of swing flaws, it's genetics 

You're right, I know nothing about club head speed or the swing, I need to watch a video about it.

[Golfimprovejourney]

53 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

You're right, I know nothing about club head speed or the swing, I need to watch a video about it.

Never claimed I'm a know it all or said that you know nothing, based on your original reply you misinterpreted that I thought speed was from forcing lag 

[Nels55]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

You're right, I know nothing about club head speed or the swing, I need to watch a video about it.

Ummm, I don’t think the op wanted you to watch the video to learn anything he was merely pointing out that the kid in the video was fast regardless of his swing mechanics.  

[MonteScheinblum]

28 minutes ago, Golfimprovejourney said:

Never claimed I'm a know it all or said that you know nothing, based on your original reply you misinterpreted that I thought speed was from forcing lag 

Your post title said….I thought lag/shaft lean create speed

 

I said…….Sequencing properly and speed create lag and shaft lean, not the other way around.

 

Seems like an exact direct response to me.

 

PS-  I have helped several people get from 90’s to 105+.

 

Help people go from 80’s to 100 all the time.

 

Helped a guy go from 120’s to the cusp of 150’s. 

 

Yea 130 is partially genetic, but that guy could top 140 if he sequenced correctly.  sequencing properly is where max speed for the individual comes from.  

 

Try reading comprehension and trying to learn something versus being dismissive and snide or you get snide in return.
 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

4 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

Ummm, I don’t think the op wanted you to watch the video to learn anything he was merely pointing out that the kid in the video was fast regardless of his swing mechanics.  

Reread his whole response again

[Nels55]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Reread his whole response again

I read it several times before I posted.

[MonteScheinblum]

15 minutes ago, Nels55 said:

I read it several times before I posted.

Well, if you see the emoji responses he got they interpreted it the same way I did.

Edited April 7 by MonteScheinblum

[Jeselnik]

I have no idea why Monte wastes so much time on you guys.  Monte, if you want to host a children’s clinic make it 12 and under.

 

JNIK

[naj959]

Telling an instructor to watch a YouTube video is wild 😅 going to give OP benefit of doubt since he's new here.

[KD1]

Benefit of the doubt. I assumed he was just in the mind frame of responding to sniper since he brought up holding lag... no biggie.

Edited April 7 by KD1

[Albatross Dreamer]

16 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

You're right, I know nothing about club head speed or the swing, I need to watch a video about it.

I hear "no turn cast" and "broom force" are both decent if you're looking

[PedronNiall]

Ol' Slow Swing Monte back at it trying to tell people how to get speed like he was a World Long Drive guy or something. Coming eclipses must mess with the mind the same way full moons do.

[PedronNiall]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:00 PM, Golfimprovejourney said:

That's not what I meant 

 

I know that holding lag never works, but what I'm saying is using your body correctly to create that lag isn't going to make you that much faster. You're not gonna go from swinging your driver 95 to 115 bc your sequence is better.

 

Watch the video, Milo's student swings his driver 130 club speed with a ton of swing flaws, it's genetics 

 

Don't know why I'm feeling like responding sensibly to this, but if you take the time to dive into how the mind works you'll find out that your brain will stop your body from swinging at its max speed by quite a decent margin when your sequencing is off in an actual swing. Some will, in fact, go from 95 to 115 simply by getting a sound swing that their brain reasons is capable of doing their primary task--hitting the ball--at the new higher speed. In some cases speed training is necessary to get there, but not always by any means.

 

This is exactly why plenty of people are capable of swings that break the 100 mph mark with no ball present but fall well short once they tee one up.

 

 

As to proper sequencing, etc., for you, from the sound of it if your hands are well ahead at impact as you claim then you indeed have a problem. If that's the specific mystery you want to investigate I suggest comparing stills of yourself at impact to better ball strikers. You'll find that their hands are not all that far ahead at contact and that impact more or less mirrors address, tending to decrease as clubs lengthen. To get the flight you're mentioning it sounds like you're in a full on knockdown position at the ball which is not what you should be chasing for normal shots.

 

If I were you I'd address the problem, sequencing and forcing lean via additional shaft lean, rather than the symptom, low ball flight, assuming that's what your stills and video show as your posts suggest.

[Nels55]

On 4/7/2024 at 5:53 AM, Jeselnik said:

I have no idea why Monte wastes so much time on you guys.  Monte, if you want to host a children’s clinic make it 12 and under.

 

JNIK

I think the OP was sincere and did not mean any insult with what he wrote.  Perhaps he does not understand the golf swing a very high level but I didn't see where he wrote anything that warranted the response that he got.  

[Golf_Goof]

7 hours ago, Nels55 said:

I think the OP was sincere and did not mean any insult with what he wrote.  Perhaps he does not understand the golf swing a very high level but I didn't see where he wrote anything that warranted the response that he got.  

This.

 

I wouldn't expect a new member to know Monte's bona fides after being here only a month. 

[Nicknatic]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:00 PM, Golfimprovejourney said:

That's not what I meant 

 

I know that holding lag never works, but what I'm saying is using your body correctly to create that lag isn't going to make you that much faster. You're not gonna go from swinging your driver 95 to 115 bc your sequence is better.

 

Watch the video, Milo's student swings his driver 130 club speed with a ton of swing flaws, it's genetics 

Recently I've been working on my swing, corrected some mistakes that made be start sequencing properly, proper sequencing led to both lag and shaft lean without me even trying. My driver went from around 275 average to now averaging 310. So there must be some other reason your body is putting on the brakes in your swing.

[MountainKing]

On 4/6/2024 at 10:00 PM, Golfimprovejourney said:

That's not what I meant 

 

I know that holding lag never works, but what I'm saying is using your body correctly to create that lag isn't going to make you that much faster. You're not gonna go from swinging your driver 95 to 115 bc your sequence is better.

 

Watch the video, Milo's student swings his driver 130 club speed with a ton of swing flaws, it's genetics 

 

I don't buy into the genetics thing at all.  My family tree says I should have slow genetics, yet when I played hockey I could skate fast with a wicked slap shot, in my prime years I had club speed in 115+ range.  All of that was due to me learning how to do things correctly so I could be efficient.

 

In a lot of cases really athletic people and strong people are able to power through less than stellar mechanics, and that's probably what you're seeing with this guy swinging 130.   

[Pepperturbo]

On 4/6/2024 at 8:53 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

You're right, I know nothing about club head speed or the swing, I need to watch a video about it.

I love when a student thinks the seasoned instructor isn't worth listening to.  Reminds me of the youngster two years out of college telling me how I should run the company.  

Edited April 9 by Pepperturbo

[Pastit]

13 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

I don't buy into the genetics thing at all.  My family tree says I should have slow genetics, yet when I played hockey I could skate fast with a wicked slap shot, in my prime years I had club speed in 115+ range.  All of that was due to me learning how to do things correctly so I could be efficient.

 

In a lot of cases really athletic people and strong people are able to power through less than stellar mechanics, and that's probably what you're seeing with this guy swinging 130.   

Why, you likely have a former recessive gene now expressed ? 

Edited April 10 by Pastit

[Golfimprovejourney]

4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

I love when a student thinks the seasoned instructor isn't worth listening to.  Reminds me of the youngster two years out of college telling me how I should run the company.  

Didn't even mean to respond to him, Meant to respond to the first guy because he misunderstood what I was saying. Montes a great instructor and learned a lot from him the last couple of years 

 

Apologies @MonteScheinblum, didn't mean to come across as a know it all

Edited April 9 by Golfimprovejourney

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, Golfimprovejourney said:

Didn't even mean to respond to him, Meant to respond to the first guy because he misunderstood what I was saying.

 

Apologies @MonteScheinblum, didn't mean to come across as a know it all

That’s fair.

[betarhoalphadelta]

4 hours ago, MountainKing said:

 

I don't buy into the genetics thing at all.  My family tree says I should have slow genetics, yet when I played hockey I could skate fast with a wicked slap shot, in my prime years I had club speed in 115+ range.  All of that was due to me learning how to do things correctly so I could be efficient.

 

In a lot of cases really athletic people and strong people are able to power through less than stellar mechanics, and that's probably what you're seeing with this guy swinging 130.   

 

IMHO there are two aspects here.

 

1. Every golfer has a "ceiling" for swing speed. That might be genetic. It might be current fitness/mobility level (and thus can be improved). But there's a certain natural talent level that is going to be a hard limit.  
2. Most amateur golfers are nowhere near their "ceiling" because of mechanics/sequencing issues. The reason they're slow isn't genetics. 

 

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Golfimprovejourney said:

Didn't even mean to respond to him, Meant to respond to the first guy because he misunderstood what I was saying. Montes a great instructor and learned a lot from him the last couple of years 

 

Apologies @MonteScheinblum, didn't mean to come across as a know it all

As a forum Elder, I welcome you to Golf WRX, where posters scoff at you and then forget about your issues and argue amongst themselves about genetics in your thread.

[MountainKing]

2 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

IMHO there are two aspects here.

 

1. Every golfer has a "ceiling" for swing speed. That might be genetic. It might be current fitness/mobility level (and thus can be improved). But there's a certain natural talent level that is going to be a hard limit.  
2. Most amateur golfers are nowhere near their "ceiling" because of mechanics/sequencing issues. The reason they're slow isn't genetics. 

 

 

My current lack of speed is for a result of weight gain, but more an awful back that has been operated on.   I probably would pick up a bit if I lost weight.

[indianagolf2]

On 4/7/2024 at 8:53 AM, Jeselnik said:

I have no idea why Monte wastes so much time on you guys.  Monte, if you want to host a children’s clinic make it 12 and under.

 

JNIK

Monte has built a,reputation from posting that has made him money...business. now, you have an idea