Iron shafts… is it time to switch?

[Kdgolf]

I finished last season as a 6.8hdcp with a driver SS around 103-105. I currently play a combo set of zx4/zx5/zx7 with DG 120 s400 tour issue. This being said I’m also getting into my mid 40’s and noticing my SS decreasing both during a round of 18 and overall. I feel as though I’m on the edge of moving swing weight and flex to get some more distance and make the swing “easier”. I’ve seen two fitters who said I could really move into either weight or flex but no real certainty.

 

I’d like to get feedback here from those who’ve experienced similar scenarios. I would prefer to keep a mid-low’ish ball flight and spin hasn’t been a real issue in the past.

 

Please let me know what worked for you?

[Lasorcier]

53.  I switched over the last year from DG x100 to Steelfiber i95 stiffs.  That was quite a change in weight, and it took a while to develop the feel to have it grooved.  For flex, I am not sure it was much of a change, as I feel the i95 to be pretty stiff for its rating and would consider them as stiff as the DGs. I tried the lower flex thing in a lighter steel shaft (DG 105 i think) and noticed that it dramatically raised my spin and height and hampered distance in a bad way (i.e., spinouts where I am hitting a 3 iron the distance of a 6 iron) and no control.  So, if it were me, I would experiment with weight first.  My personal priorities are length, lie, weight, flex in that order.  

 

 

[BCULAW]

23 minutes ago, Kdgolf said:

I finished last season as a 6.8hdcp with a driver SS around 103-105. I currently play a combo set of zx4/zx5/zx7 with DG 120 s400 tour issue. This being said I’m also getting into my mid 40’s and noticing my SS decreasing both during a round of 18 and overall. I feel as though I’m on the edge of moving swing weight and flex to get some more distance and make the swing “easier”. I’ve seen two fitters who said I could really move into either weight or flex but no real certainty.

 

I’d like to get feedback here from those who’ve experienced similar scenarios. I would prefer to keep a mid-low’ish ball flight and spin hasn’t been a real issue in the past.

 

Please let me know what worked for you?

I'm a little older, and a former minor league baseball player.  Iron swing speed is 92-94 with a 7 iron according to trackman.  I've been fit into KBS Tour 130x for years, and have been playing them exclusively this past year.  Like you, I'm seeing a tail off in distance and certainly working harder to load the club.  Any time I struggle like this, I actually drop into regular flex iron shafts.  My favorite for years has been the DGR400 (or 300 since the 400s are harder to find nowadays).  I actually play my very best golf with these shafts if you look back at my rounds historically.  In fact, I recently bought a set of G425 irons with AWT 2.0 regular flex shafts just to make things easy.  I think these shafts are a little loose for me, but I am definitely seeing much improved iron play since picking them up.  They are just so much easier to use!  I was playing 620CBs with 130x.  I feel like a am playing "small ball" with the G425/AWT combo - I am not swinging hard at all - but the shots fly the same distance if not longer and are so easy to control.  

 

This type of switch may be a little dramatic for most, but it works for me.  I think you are on the right path with your thought process.

[Kdgolf]

34 minutes ago, BCULAW said:

I'm a little older, and a former minor league baseball player.  Iron swing speed is 92-94 with a 7 iron according to trackman.  I've been fit into KBS Tour 130x for years, and have been playing them exclusively this past year.  Like you, I'm seeing a tail off in distance and certainly working harder to load the club.  Any time I struggle like this, I actually drop into regular flex iron shafts.  My favorite for years has been the DGR400 (or 300 since the 400s are harder to find nowadays).  I actually play my very best golf with these shafts if you look back at my rounds historically.  In fact, I recently bought a set of G425 irons with AWT 2.0 regular flex shafts just to make things easy.  I think these shafts are a little loose for me, but I am definitely seeing much improved iron play since picking them up.  They are just so much easier to use!  I was playing 620CBs with 130x.  I feel like a am playing "small ball" with the G425/AWT combo - I am not swinging hard at all - but the shots fly the same distance if not longer and are so easy to control.  

 

This type of switch may be a little dramatic for most, but it works for me.  I think you are on the right path with your thought process.

Do you feel as though ball flight has remained about the same coming from the 130x due to lofts being stronger? Do you feel as though spin has still been acceptable with the pings? My iron swing speed is around 90 so not too far off from yours. I do worry slightly about moving to lighter or flex throwing off my tempo and face control, have you noticed any of this?

[wantacigar]

56 minutes ago, BCULAW said:

I'm a little older, and a former minor league baseball player.  Iron swing speed is 92-94 with a 7 iron according to trackman.  I've been fit into KBS Tour 130x for years, and have been playing them exclusively this past year.  Like you, I'm seeing a tail off in distance and certainly working harder to load the club.  Any time I struggle like this, I actually drop into regular flex iron shafts.  My favorite for years has been the DGR400 (or 300 since the 400s are harder to find nowadays).  I actually play my very best golf with these shafts if you look back at my rounds historically.  In fact, I recently bought a set of G425 irons with AWT 2.0 regular flex shafts just to make things easy.  I think these shafts are a little loose for me, but I am definitely seeing much improved iron play since picking them up.  They are just so much easier to use!  I was playing 620CBs with 130x.  I feel like a am playing "small ball" with the G425/AWT combo - I am not swinging hard at all - but the shots fly the same distance if not longer and are so easy to control.  

 

This type of switch may be a little dramatic for most, but it works for me.  I think you are on the right path with your thought process.

If you have a good tempo swing an R flex is perfect.  I'm a little older and just went from S steel to R graphite.  70g R MMT.  I've never struck my irons better.  My 7i swing is around 80-84ish  sometimes a little slower.  That falls into the R to S steel flex.  I was starting to struggle loading the stiff flex myself, though they were lighter steel resulting in bad swings.  

[phizzy30]

I'm approaching my mid 40's and still play heavy and stout shafts but that's more for control more than anything else.  I know there will come a day in the near future where I will have to transition into something lighter although not necessarily softer because of my aggressive transition.  I have a buddy who's around scratch that is in his late 40's that's gone from 120 gram stiff down to 105 gram regular shafts due to loss of speed.  He says it's been a blessing in disguise and wishes he would've done it sooner. 

[wantacigar]

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm approaching my mid 40's and still play heavy and stout shafts but that's more for control more than anything else.  I know there will come a day in the near future where I will have to transition into something lighter although not necessarily softer because of my aggressive transition.  I have a buddy who's around scratch that is in his late 40's that's gone from 120 gram stiff down to 105 gram regular shafts due to loss of speed.  He says it's been a blessing in disguise and wishes he would've done it sooner. 

I'm 57 and just went to a 70 gram R graphite.  I could have used regular flex when I bought my Sim2 Max irons in 2021 but was fitted into stiff.  Should have gotten R.  

[jah7838]

A couple of summers ago, I switched from DGTI S400 shafts in all my irons and wedges, and really struggled with the 5 and 6 irons towards the end of my rounds in the summers.  I decide to try the Modus 125s, and did like them, but missed the feel of the DG profile thru the turf.  I decided to go to the AMT White s300 next, and they've been in the bag for all but 5 months last year when I tried the $ Taper 120s.  I didn't mind the $ Taper in the longer irons, but struggled with the short irons, and went back to the AMT Whites. 

 

The S400 shafts are still in my wedges and aren't going anywhere.  The progressively lighter shafts is barely noticeable, and I'm still able to play the shots the way I want to play them.  I didn't notice any distance loss either, and I'm not having to work hard to load them.  

[Kdgolf]

2 hours ago, jah7838 said:

A couple of summers ago, I switched from DGTI S400 shafts in all my irons and wedges, and really struggled with the 5 and 6 irons towards the end of my rounds in the summers.  I decide to try the Modus 125s, and did like them, but missed the feel of the DG profile thru the turf.  I decided to go to the AMT White s300 next, and they've been in the bag for all but 5 months last year when I tried the $ Taper 120s.  I didn't mind the $ Taper in the longer irons, but struggled with the short irons, and went back to the AMT Whites. 

 

The S400 shafts are still in my wedges and aren't going anywhere.  The progressively lighter shafts is barely noticeable, and I'm still able to play the shots the way I want to play them.  I didn't notice any distance loss either, and I'm not having to work hard to load them.  

Based on your experience and response going to a lighter weight actually did the opposite of what you intended? It sounds as though in addition to performance being negatively impacted it also hurt your natural swing? That is what I’m afraid of most, losing the “feel” of the club.

[Kdgolf]

5 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm approaching my mid 40's and still play heavy and stout shafts but that's more for control more than anything else.  I know there will come a day in the near future where I will have to transition into something lighter although not necessarily softer because of my aggressive transition.  I have a buddy who's around scratch that is in his late 40's that's gone from 120 gram stiff down to 105 gram regular shafts due to loss of speed.  He says it's been a blessing in disguise and wishes he would've done it sooner. 

So based upon your buddy’s experience did he mention any negative impact to performance or have to change swing thoughts or feelings to accommodate the difference in weight?

[BCULAW]

5 hours ago, Kdgolf said:

Do you feel as though ball flight has remained about the same coming from the 130x due to lofts being stronger? Do you feel as though spin has still been acceptable with the pings? My iron swing speed is around 90 so not too far off from yours. I do worry slightly about moving to lighter or flex throwing off my tempo and face control, have you noticed any of this?

So, there is a change in ball flight, but it is actually the opposite of what you would expect.  I actually hit the ball higher and with more spin with the 130x.  Ball speed drops, but the added height and spin actually give me the yardages I want on full swings.  With most stiff flexes, my ball speed drops and my spin goes up dramatically to unplayable levels.  By comparison, I produce a lower flight and higher speed with the R400s with lower spin in the short and mid irons.  They produce the same distance as the 130X, but in a different way.  The long irons launch lower and spin more, so I lose a bit of carry distance compared to the 130X.  What I lose in the long irons, though, I tend to make up for in shot versatility with the mid and short irons.  I have to hit the 130X HARD with nearly every swing.  I can play a bunch of different shots with the R400.

 

You asked whether the Pings produce acceptable spin - I am still getting used to them and learning their tendencies.  I will say that the combination of the lower lofted heads (I am coming from traditional lofted 620CBs) do a good job of negating any increase in spin that might rob me of distance.  I am hitting the Gs a full club longer up through the 7 iron.  The 6 and 5 seem a bit fickle, and I am concerned that they are too loose, thus producing too much spin.  The 6 is definitely playable, but I am missing the 5 iron high and right a bit too often.  I may end up tinkering a bit.

 

If I end up changing the shafts in the Pings, it will be to the R400s.  The lighter flex shaft is just easier on the body.  I can play a variety of shots and don't seem to be losing any distance or consistency.  I think most people should at least try to flex down and play a bit of "small ball" with the irons.  

[Ger21]

Longtime S300 player, and at 57 I noticed I was feeling a bit fatigued at the end of my rounds. Thinking I wasn't getting any younger, I jumped on a great deal for some 95g Fujikura Pro Irons in Tour Spec S. After a few buckets to get use to the 40g weight drop, I seemed to be hitting them well. Great shafts, and I felt great after playing, and could play 36 with zero fatigue.

But every couple of rounds, I started shanking the ball, which I'd never done in 35+ years of playing. I'd p[lay some good rounds, but them have a round where I literally could not hit the ball. Nothing but tops and shanks. I actually quit playing for two weeks.

Finally decided the shafts had to be too light for me (something I had always wondered), and in the ball, bought some new heads, and was planning on switching to a heavier graphite shaft, either Fuji Pro 115, or something even heavier.

Then I stumbled across a great deal on AMT White X100's, 2-8 iron. I'd never played an X flex shaft in my life, but had played AMT White S300 before.

So I bought the AMT, and soft stepped them twice. Played two rounds in the fall, and played my best golf in 2 years. 6 rounds in this spring, and the good play has continued.

Bottom line, for me, the weight makes all the difference. While soft stepping AMT does make them even lighter in the long irons, I'm still playing 130g shafts in my wedges, then dropping 3g per shaft starting at my 9 iron. The lighter weight of the long irons seems to be much easier on the body, and the heavier weight in the short irons greatly improves my ballstriking.

Just turned 60, and playing more golf then I ever have, with no fatigue at all.

For me, weight was by far the most important factor.

[phizzy30]

15 minutes ago, Kdgolf said:

So based upon your buddy’s experience did he mention any negative impact to performance or have to change swing thoughts or feelings to accommodate the difference in weight?

It took him awhile to get used to difference in weight.  He added a couple strips of lead tape to the heads at my suggestion which improved his strike location. 

[gripandrip]

I am 63 with similar driver swing speed... and was a DGS300 player for years. about 7-8 years ago I switched to a set of SF i95S. I found very little issue with the weight change, but now there are lot of other options in graphite that still let me keep my current flight. DGS300 and SF i95S seems to have a very similar profile. I recently went to a fitting and really liked the little bit heavier MMT 105S. That may be my next shaft. BYW, I still play S400's in my wedges.

[mizuno player]

I thought the same thing. I went from long time x100 , some 6.5 px scattered in, to Fuji pro graphite 115. Absolutely loved the feel of the fuji. I didn't seem to have a drop off in distance or a gain.  When I looked back I had the worst GIR ever. I had zero control with those shafts. ( I fit myself ). I thought it was lack of practice . I also did it for elbow issues. But I don't hit off mats hardly at all anymore. 

 

I went back to my long time fitter of 25 years and he put me back in a heavy weight shaft. KBS Tour 130x. He said my timing was way off. My club face control was horrible. I was launching a 7 iron like a 9 iron. He gave me a demo set up and optimal numbers returned. 

 

I believe someone above said. Be careful just going lighter because you feel getting older you should. It's not all about age or swing speed that requires heavier shafts or even stiffer. I'm 57 going on 58 this year. I still have speed but it's also the way I swing and load the shaft. See a qualified fitter to be safe. 

[jah7838]

1 hour ago, Kdgolf said:

Based on your experience and response going to a lighter weight actually did the opposite of what you intended? It sounds as though in addition to performance being negatively impacted it also hurt your natural swing? That is what I’m afraid of most, losing the “feel” of the club.

My scores really didn’t change between those irons shaft changes. Still maintained a single digit handicap.  
 

When I say I struggled with short irons in the lighter weight $ Tapers, contact didn’t feel as crisp as I would like them too, and tempo was off at times, but the misses weren’t any worse than the S400 shafts. Good shots between the 2 shafts went the same distances, and mishits were what I expected them to do. 
 

And that wasn’t all the time either. It was just random days that short irons felt off.  Those random days were usually after not touching a club or practicing for a few days more than I’m used to. Adding lead tape to the head did help out with some of the inconsistency. I’ve gotten to the point to where I can go lighter in my clubs when it comes to shaft with the right profile and enough head weight. 
 

My worst rounds of golf were usually because I had no idea where my driver was going. Didn’t really matter which irons I had in play.

 

It was just a preference thing with short irons on why the AMT Whites are in the bag right now. Because I’m becoming less aggressive thru the turf, I’ll probably be back in the $ Taper shafts with the ZX7 MKII heads at some point, but right now, the AMT whites are fine in the OG ZX7 heads. I’m not struggling with the weight of the AMT shafts right now, so they can stay in the bag. 

[Kdgolf]

16 hours ago, gripandrip said:

I am 63 with similar driver swing speed... and was a DGS300 player for years. about 7-8 years ago I switched to a set of SF i95S. I found very little issue with the weight change, but now there are lot of other options in graphite that still let me keep my current flight. DGS300 and SF i95S seems to have a very similar profile. I recently went to a fitting and really liked the little bit heavier MMT 105S. That may be my next shaft. BYW, I still play S400's in my wedges.

I haven't tried the MMT shafts but a lot of people seem to like them. Based on your experience with the DGS300 how do you or other folks here compare a shaft like an MMT to DG? I have gravitated towards the DGS400 to keep up with a slightly more aggressive move from the top and I like keeping the ball flight a touch lower. I believe I mentioned before that I have been fitted in the past, about three years ago, which led me into a Modus 120X, PX 6.0, DGS400/DGS300. 

 

If any of you have experience with other shafts that should be considered, please let me know. 

[Boricua Golf]

I am 52, ex bodybuilder, still in good shape with an aggressive swing, I had X100s in the irons and always had S400 in the wedges (still do), then I switched to Steefiber 110i X Flex, great shaft but felt too light, I adjusted and played them almost all season last year, late last year I got fitted to the Apex MB/CB and to my surprise S400 shafts, they feel a bit softer than both the X100 and the SF 110i, still heavy but manageable for me, I can see the S400 being a bit heavy for you, especially if we are having one of those days to where Tigger shows up instead of Tiger, I say try some lighter stiff shafts and try to stay away from X flex, in my experience lighter X flex shafts gave me dispersion issues, love the distance control but the direction at times gave me some problems, definitely me and not the clubs, that said, the S400s I have now have been amazing...keep working and don't give up, you're only a shaft away, take care.

Edited April 17 by Boricua Golf

[jeffrey r]

17 hours ago, gripandrip said:

I am 63 with similar driver swing speed... and was a DGS300 player for years. about 7-8 years ago I switched to a set of SF i95S. I found very little issue with the weight change, but now there are lot of other options in graphite that still let me keep my current flight. DGS300 and SF i95S seems to have a very similar profile. I recently went to a fitting and really liked the little bit heavier MMT 105S. That may be my next shaft. BYW, I still play S400's in my wedges.

 

The MMT 105 S are great shafts. I like the extra weight over i95, and frankly, I found the i95 stiff to be very stiff. I have the MMT 105 in sets of 923 Hot Metals and P790’s, and they work great in both. And no up-charge with Mizuno. The TX are excellent as well, and work well for me in my wedges. YMMV. 

[jah7838]

@KdgolfI want to add that most of my tempo issues with the lighter $ Taper shafts was early in my rounds where it was cold and I was just showing up to play with no range.  The tempo issues weren't as big of a problem later in my rounds after figuring out what I was doing that day. 

 

Some of my other issues during this time were also physical.  Winter of 2022, my hips and psoas got super tight, and my swing was completely thrown off, so I was using a lot of arms.  Those problems continued into late last summer.  Now, they aren't nearly as big of a problem, so my swing is back to using more of my body.  I will probably revisit the $ Taper at some point just to see if I notice anything different about them this time around.  I really do enjoy how smooth the shafts are.    

[RSLP]

you may like a stiff lighter shaft or a regular heavier shaft, go test the TT DG line up:

 

DG130

DG120

DG115

DG105

DG100

DG95

 

[Kdgolf]

14 minutes ago, jah7838 said:

@KdgolfI want to add that most of my tempo issues with the lighter $ Taper shafts was early in my rounds where it was cold and I was just showing up to play with no range.  The tempo issues weren't as big of a problem later in my rounds after figuring out what I was doing that day. 

 

Some of my other issues during this time were also physical.  Winter of 2022, my hips and psoas got super tight, and my swing was completely thrown off, so I was using a lot of arms.  Those problems continued into late last summer.  Now, they aren't nearly as big of a problem, so my swing is back to using more of my body.  I will probably revisit the $ Taper at some point just to see if I notice anything different about them this time around.  I really do enjoy how smooth the shafts are.    

I appreciate the feedback and I recall trying the $ taper several years ago. I recall the shaft feel was extremely smooth but I consciously had to swing "smoother" to get it to work for me. I feel as though I am searching for something that has some DG stability while being a touch lighter or maybe still on the heavier side but not quite as still. 

[phizzy30]

2 hours ago, Kdgolf said:

I haven't tried the MMT shafts but a lot of people seem to like them. Based on your experience with the DGS300 how do you or other folks here compare a shaft like an MMT to DG? I have gravitated towards the DGS400 to keep up with a slightly more aggressive move from the top and I like keeping the ball flight a touch lower. I believe I mentioned before that I have been fitted in the past, about three years ago, which led me into a Modus 120X, PX 6.0, DGS400/DGS300. 

 

If any of you have experience with other shafts that should be considered, please let me know. 

I've played X100/S300 in the past and currently have the MMT.  MMT and DG share similar EI profile.  MMT launch a touch higher but spin a touch less less than DG from the numbers I saw on trackman. 

[Kdgolf]

2 hours ago, phizzy30 said:

I've played X100/S300 in the past and currently have the MMT.  MMT and DG share similar EI profile.  MMT launch a touch higher but spin a touch less less than DG from the numbers I saw on trackman. 

I havent had the opportunity to swing an MMT shaft in the past, I dont think many of the fitters in my area provide the MMT as an option or maybe I just havent asked.

[phizzy30]

11 minutes ago, Kdgolf said:

I havent had the opportunity to swing an MMT shaft in the past, I dont think many of the fitters in my area provide the MMT as an option or maybe I just havent asked.

Yeah, MMT seems to only be offered by the fitters that have bigger inventory.  Most of the fitters I know and have talked to stock DG, PX, and maybe Nippon/Steelfiber.  MMT, L-Series, Axiom, Oban, and Accra aren't as prevalent although that may change in the future. 

Edited April 17 by phizzy30

[gripandrip]

35 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I've played X100/S300 in the past and currently have the MMT.  MMT and DG share similar EI profile.  MMT launch a touch higher but spin a touch less less than DG from the numbers I saw on trackman. 

I would agree that I found the MMT similar to the flight of the SF i95, which in turn are similar to the DGS300. I liked the little heavier weight, but didn't really see any appreciable spin or height changes for me, but that will depend on each persons swing (and I didn't spend extensive time on trackman). I also have to add that, I have a smooth transition (think Chris Kirk), so how they react with a little more aggressive  transition, I can't really speak intelligently about.

[phizzy30]

Just now, gripandrip said:

I would agree that I found the MMT similar to the flight of the SF i95, which in turn are similar to the DGS300. I liked the little heavier weight, but didn't really see any appreciable spin or height changes for me, but that will depend on each persons swing (and I didn't spend extensive time on trackman). I also have to add that, I have a smooth transition (think Chris Kirk), so how they react with a little more aggressive  transition, I can't really speak intelligently about.

MMT forces me to smooth out my transition which isn't necessarily a bad thing.  When I get quick from the top, they tend to go left on me which is the only knock against them.  Axiom is similar to MMT but more stable for me which is what I may go with the next time I get new irons. 

[Thayneil]

17 hours ago, RSLP said:

you may like a stiff lighter shaft or a regular heavier shaft, go test the TT DG line up:

 

DG130

DG120

DG115

DG105

DG100

DG95

 

Dg95.is a noodle not worthy.of the DG name!

[jah7838]

21 hours ago, Kdgolf said:

I appreciate the feedback and I recall trying the $ taper several years ago. I recall the shaft feel was extremely smooth but I consciously had to swing "smoother" to get it to work for me. I feel as though I am searching for something that has some DG stability while being a touch lighter or maybe still on the heavier side but not quite as still. 

Next time I'm able to go to the range and practice, I'll take my PW and 8 irons to compare them side by side again.  Your topic has me curious now that I'm feeling a lot better physically compared to last year.  I'll report back on how different they shafts feel to me now.  

[Urb]

If a club feels like work to me, its gone.  Golf shouldn't be hard work.  Especially irons, don't need to be swinging at redline.

 

Id try two things.  

 

Test DG120 R, the weight is close but the profile is slightly higher launching/mellower.

 

Then try some DG105 S.  Lighter, profile is close but not exact.  

 

That would give you an idea if it's the weight or stiffness that's bothering you.

 

Also give Modus 105/115 a look.  They're kind of a smoother/softer/higher launching versions of DG.  115 S or possibly even X would be softer than your current.