Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[RobotDoctor]

I would like to know exactly what the owner of Plaza Golf sold his Mini to Rick Breeden for. I know it was reported as $35,000 a few years ago but it is known that it was a trade/cash deal and the actual, real, value was much less. Some reports that the actual sale price would have been around $20,000 in cash & trade. Of course I doubt that the owner of Plaza Golf or Vog will confirm what the price really was, even though I would bet everything that both know the real answer.

[RobotDoctor]

I just did a google search and on the 1st day of May (1 of 5) in 1993 Mickey and Mini Mouse had a baby. Because it looked like Pluto had been doing the horizontal bop with Mini they named the baby Pluto Mini. The guy that stamped the putter messed up the stamping, It should have read Pluto Mini, not Proto Mini. That solves the debate.

 

I think the Google search was wrong. You should do better searching next time. The actual result was on the 1st day of May (a of 5) in 1993 Pluto and Mini Mouse had a baby and named it Pluto Mini. Unfortunately Cameron appears to mis-spell Pluto or Mickey Mouse paid Cameron off to stamp it Proto Mini to keep the affair out of the tabloids. Maybe that is where the up-front money came from to build the first Putter Studio.

 

:D

[texas-ex]

I love putters. I hate "collectibles". My Pre-Titleist Cameron putters are some of my favorites and my Cami&Co NPII GSS is in the bag right now. I could give a crap what they are worth on the resale market or what machine shop milled them. I own a machine shop with all the same CNC capabilities at RJB, K-Tech, and whoever else is milling/turning steel in this country. I could make all the putters I want but it doesn't interest me to do so -- there isn't any money in it unless you are flipping 1000+ head batches.

 

Anyway, the reason I game the CamiCo is because it looks almost identical to a Pat Pend Anser 2 but it's milled from a solid piece of 303 stainless. The feel is better than the old PING. I don't care that it's a $5000 "copy".

 

Putt with what gets the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Worry less about internet people and collectible markets. Enjoy your life.

 

You have a machine shop, so you obviously know a thing or two about metal. What's your take on GSS vs. regular stainless steel? Are there any differences in the composition of the metal?

 

I know some think they FEEL different, but I'd like to get your thoughts on any scientific differences.

 

Thanks.

Kevin

 

 

I think I did that thread back in '03 on the old Yahoo Cameron board. LOL. I'm sure there are some threads around here or on other sites that will explain it all to you.

 

Short answer is no difference, all things being equal (shaft, grip, head shape, weight, hardness of metal).

 

Thanks! I knew the answer, but just wanted to ask another REAL expert the question. You're in the business so your response and expertise is much appreciated.

 

IMO, it's amazing how spending an extra $3,000 on a putter can affect the feel. :rolleyes:

 

Kevin

 

 

What about DASS? any difference?

 

What is DASS?

[texas-ex]

With regards to the Custom Shop policy about welding initials and remilling the face, I found that to be true. They told me they wouldn't do it for me. Well then, what I did was weld the initials myself before sending the putter in for refinishing. The original finish was a black pearl mist so the refinish and remill of the face covered the "ghosting" of the weld. It got an A COA. Suckas.

 

Bottom line is that there are way too many inconsistencies for the COA program to be effective. Scotty's revisionist memory being one of them. LOL.

[Arafel]

I love putters. I hate "collectibles". My Pre-Titleist Cameron putters are some of my favorites and my Cami&Co NPII GSS is in the bag right now. I could give a crap what they are worth on the resale market or what machine shop milled them. I own a machine shop with all the same CNC capabilities at RJB, K-Tech, and whoever else is milling/turning steel in this country. I could make all the putters I want but it doesn't interest me to do so -- there isn't any money in it unless you are flipping 1000+ head batches.

 

Anyway, the reason I game the CamiCo is because it looks almost identical to a Pat Pend Anser 2 but it's milled from a solid piece of 303 stainless. The feel is better than the old PING. I don't care that it's a $5000 "copy".

 

Putt with what gets the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Worry less about internet people and collectible markets. Enjoy your life.

 

You have a machine shop, so you obviously know a thing or two about metal. What's your take on GSS vs. regular stainless steel? Are there any differences in the composition of the metal?

 

I know some think they FEEL different, but I'd like to get your thoughts on any scientific differences.

 

Thanks.

Kevin

 

 

I think I did that thread back in '03 on the old Yahoo Cameron board. LOL. I'm sure there are some threads around here or on other sites that will explain it all to you.

 

Short answer is no difference, all things being equal (shaft, grip, head shape, weight, hardness of metal).

 

Thanks! I knew the answer, but just wanted to ask another REAL expert the question. You're in the business so your response and expertise is much appreciated.

 

IMO, it's amazing how spending an extra $3,000 on a putter can affect the feel. :rolleyes:

 

Kevin

 

 

What about DASS? any difference?

 

What is DASS?

 

Double Aged Stainless Steel. It's a softer SS I guess.

 

 

Foregasim beat me to it.

[RobotDoctor]

I love putters. I hate "collectibles". My Pre-Titleist Cameron putters are some of my favorites and my Cami&Co NPII GSS is in the bag right now. I could give a crap what they are worth on the resale market or what machine shop milled them. I own a machine shop with all the same CNC capabilities at RJB, K-Tech, and whoever else is milling/turning steel in this country. I could make all the putters I want but it doesn't interest me to do so -- there isn't any money in it unless you are flipping 1000+ head batches.

 

Anyway, the reason I game the CamiCo is because it looks almost identical to a Pat Pend Anser 2 but it's milled from a solid piece of 303 stainless. The feel is better than the old PING. I don't care that it's a $5000 "copy".

 

Putt with what gets the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes. Worry less about internet people and collectible markets. Enjoy your life.

 

You have a machine shop, so you obviously know a thing or two about metal. What's your take on GSS vs. regular stainless steel? Are there any differences in the composition of the metal?

 

I know some think they FEEL different, but I'd like to get your thoughts on any scientific differences.

 

Thanks.

Kevin

 

 

I think I did that thread back in '03 on the old Yahoo Cameron board. LOL. I'm sure there are some threads around here or on other sites that will explain it all to you.

 

Short answer is no difference, all things being equal (shaft, grip, head shape, weight, hardness of metal).

 

Thanks! I knew the answer, but just wanted to ask another REAL expert the question. You're in the business so your response and expertise is much appreciated.

 

IMO, it's amazing how spending an extra $3,000 on a putter can affect the feel. :rolleyes:

 

Kevin

 

 

What about DASS? any difference?

 

What is DASS?

 

It stands for Double Annealed Stainless Steel. I am not sure what the grade of SS this is. It would help to know what grade of SS it is whether it is 303 or 304, etc. Annealing is a heat tempering process that changes the metallurgic crystalline structure.

[RobotDoctor]

Good grief, rapid fire responses. :)

[TM golf guy]

With regards to the Custom Shop policy about welding initials and remilling the face, I found that to be true. They told me they wouldn't do it for me. Well then, what I did was weld the initials myself before sending the putter in for refinishing. The original finish was a black pearl mist so the refinish and remill of the face covered the "ghosting" of the weld. It got an A COA. Suckas.

 

Bottom line is that there are way too many inconsistencies for the COA program to be effective. Scotty's revisionist memory being one of them. LOL.

 

LOL.

 

I have heard stories from very reliable people that putters have been refinished by outside sources (maybe just source ;) ) and then sent them in and received A COA's.

[RookieBlue7]

I am just wondering about the minis going around, Cameron, Bettinardi, and even Morgan.

 

But let's start with the Cameron since it is the topic here.

 

What is the headweight on that putter? It is really unusually light or were the proportions to make it small moved elsewhere (such as deeper face, fatter plumber's neck) to make it a normal-weight putter (320 to 360 grams)?

 

Jick,

 

I can't help you on the Cameron, but since you mentioned Bettinardi and Morgan I can help you on those two. My Bettinardi 3/4 is 362 grams, and the Byron I just ordered is 350 grams.

 

That didn't take long lol :D . Thinking of buying one of the Copper Mini's but, before I do I need to see a picture of all 5 heads. ;)

 

Supposedly I got the last copper one LOL.

 

 

There were a few on fleabay yesterday, between $500 and $750 last I saw.

[Redman]

Thanks for the additional information, guys. Having practiced law since 1973, I guess I expect a gentlemanly and respectful dialogue on issues. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. However, I expect it more so when the matter concerns leisurely or recreational pursuits which I enjoy. Life is too short, and there are far too many more important issues in this world than to waste one's time with this kind of nonsense. I am a member of GolfWRX, The Cameron Club, and BombSquad, and I don't intend on quitting any of them. I will just be more careful to avoid threads which are contentious, recognizing that when I find malcontents in any of the sites, those few do not represent the entirety of the particular site.

 

Well then you of all people practicing law since 1973 should be able to appreciate the facts and evidence that has been provided by Foregasim to blow all these Cameron cover-ups out of the water. And I have to be honest.....I have a few friends in the legal profession and from what I hear from them I don't think everything is always handled in a gentlemanly fashion especially when things get heated.

[xxio]

Is it just me or does anyone else find it ironic that all this info comes from a thread started by Nickpoz extolling the value of a Cameron?

 

Nick posted "The owner of the putter turned down an offer of $40,000 last year. "

I don't think he extolled or offer any point of view on the value of the putter. He just posted what he knew, was confirmed by someone else connected to the deal and had someone who knew nothing about the deal call it bs.

Why would you want to continue posting in a thread where you could be personally attacked by people that don't have any facts?

 

Most things the value is determined by what someone will pay for an item.

 

Maybe the putter is only worth the buyers offer, but if he is unable to purchase one at his offering price maybe it is worth more.

 

It is such a small market for an item like this that the value would be nearly impossible to determine prior to a sale.

 

It would be like trying to put a value on the Honus Wagner basball card or the inverted Jenny stamp.

It would all be guessing until one sells.

 

Anyone offering an opinion on the value of any mini is simply speculating.

 

 

 

Yup the $40k value is merely an opinion because the deal never went thru, yet it had to be mentioned to.

 

Like I keep saying if the $40k value was never mentioned these pages would only be half of what they are. Every want wants to see what a $40k putter looks like and the story behind it. Nick wanted to draw attention to a Cameron putter by mentioning the amount....guess what he drew A LOT of attention.

 

He was posting well beyond the "attacks" until facts started popping up or things couldn't be explained (again see 1/5 vs fewer than 5). If I were the thread starter I would see it to the end even if I would have to admit that there is probably a mistake in either the stamping or the statement.

[stage1350]

I just want to know what kind of scumbag takes a putter that was a GIFT from a close friend meant to celebrate the birth of their child and SELLS it?

 

I could see one person hard up for money, but all 4 of them?

 

Something doesn't add up. Then again 5 is greater than "fewer than 5" so math is obviously not someone's strong suit. :rolleyes:

[mr_dizzy_dean]

do you guys really care that much about a putter that is a little smaller than an original one?

 

seriously?

[tpariff]

I just want to know what kind of scumbag takes a putter that was a GIFT from a close friend meant to celebrate the birth of their child and SELLS it?

 

I could see one person hard up for money, but all 4 of them?

 

Something doesn't add up. Then again 5 is greater than "fewer than 5" so math is obviously not someone's strong suit. :rolleyes:

 

Has anyone ever seen one with a child's name, initials, date of birth or anything else?

 

Kevin

[xxio]

Has anyone ever seen one with a child's name, initials, date of birth or anything else?

 

Kevin

 

 

All children were named Scotty Cameron and born on 1/5 (January 5 some on May 1) that is why we "see" only one putter. Those are actually 5 different putters. Do I get a prize

 

Are we close to solving this yet? I think we got stuck on page 17 on the 1/5 vs fewer than 5.

 

Now we have to solve this gift with names yet pictures with no markings unless pictures were taken before giving or milled off after (according to stage ) the scumbag selling.

 

 

To mr_dizzy_dean,

 

Yes unfortunately I am a person who likes to visit internet forums and try to find information, learn about things like the truth. I could stay at home and watch some soap opera or documentary but then I couldn't participate. I used to be on the high school debate team and posting is half the fun. :) Fair enough?

[hornyjuan]

Is there a picture of the paperweight mini on Bob's desk?

[drewspin]

For those of you still ogling this car-crash of a thread, here is the story as posted by LaMont and reposted by Buero regarding the history of Byron's Dale Head 9:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?s=...st&p=346739

 

To answer the question regarding the machine shops that have milled Scotty's putters: Bettinardi (XCell), Slivnik Machining Inc. (while the old man was still alive and before the theft of Scotty wares by the current owner of BOS (story below), Western CNC, and K-Tech

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?s=...st&p=381626

 

Edit: GSS does actually have slightly more chromium added than other american derivations of 303 stainless steel. There is also a slight difference in feel, and in the way it machines and the way it looks, but whether that justifies the Tiger Woods' price premium is completely in the eyes of the beholder.

[jick]

Thanks for the replies to my queries. If Bettinardi's 3/4 is 362 grams, and Byron's Mini is 350 grams, I am assuming Cameron's is also of a normal weight. Does anyone know the weight of the Cameron for sure?

 

So if you reduce all the dimensions of the putter by a considerable margin how can they still keep a normal weight? Those may not be "minis" in the true sense of the word as headweight was probably added somewhere to keep it normal. A fatter topline or plumber's neck, longer profile front to back, or a deeper face may have all done it in.

[RobotDoctor]

do you guys really care that much about a putter that is a little smaller than an original one?

 

seriously?

 

 

If you think that is what this thread is all about then something is wrong. Golf is a game of integrity that is different than any other sport. It is about honesty, playing by the rules even when no one is watching. This thread is about way more than the number of "mini" putters that were made.

 

Fact, if Cameron and his followers had treated the marketing of Cameron products with the same integrity and honesty that is expected when you play the game, this thread would not have existed.

 

 

mr_dizzy_dean,

 

I echo foregasim's sentiments here. Yes, Golf is a game of integrity and honesty. Golf is a game that builds relationships, at least for me. This thread topic exudes an issue that seems to contradict the core fundamentals of the game itself. I guarantee everyone reading this post that if this topic was introduced on the Cameron fan site that the people asking the hard questions about the discrepancies of factual information and probing for the honest truth would be shown the proverbial e-door. Just read through the following link/

 

http://www.cameroncollector.com/forum/inde...c,103210.0.html

 

The secrecy of this putter, among many topics within the Cameron camp, makes me believe that this issue is not about a putter that is smaller in size than the original. This issue is about honesty and integrity and ethics. This issue is about relationships that we build, in good faith, along our journey through Golf. This issue is about principles and how we will stand when confronted with the very issue of integrity. For myself, I hope that I can pass the test and live up to the standards Golf sets for all of us. I know I am not perfect and make my share of mistakes because of my big mouth. However, at the end of the say I hope that I can be viewed as someone who exhibits the character traits Golf sets for us.

[xxio]

RD,

 

Thank you for the link. It was interesting to hear the probable explanations from the "other side". Maybe some of the proposals may turn out to be true. Couple of them sounded plausible, a little stretching but plausible.

 

I admire the high standards you try to hold yourself to even to a subject that may seem trivial to others. Hopefully you can stay that line.

[Black Shamrock]

 

 

 

Interesting new stamping. I've never seen this one before.

[easyyy]

This thread is and has been a very touchy one. The rules violations are mounting. If we cant keep it VERY clean I will have to spend the 2 hours required and pick through this thread to clean and warn.

 

- No personnel attacks (or even close to them)

- No swearing (working around the filter is not ok)

 

 

Please keep it clean. I know we are talking putters and that can heighten the passion here but please respect our site.

 

 

Richard :)

[TM golf guy]

Thanks for the replies to my queries. If Bettinardi's 3/4 is 362 grams, and Byron's Mini is 350 grams, I am assuming Cameron's is also of a normal weight. Does anyone know the weight of the Cameron for sure?

 

So if you reduce all the dimensions of the putter by a considerable margin how can they still keep a normal weight? Those may not be "minis" in the true sense of the word as headweight was probably added somewhere to keep it normal. A fatter topline or plumber's neck, longer profile front to back, or a deeper face may have all done it in.

 

Not all the 3/4 Bettinardi's are 362. I should have clarified that. I'm not certain what each one weighs, but there is one that is 348 also.

 

Holding the Cameron Mini, I would assume it is 330g as Foregasim stated. It felt the same weight as the Classic sitting next to it.

[Johnny]

 

 

Interesting new stamping. I've never seen this one before.

 

 

that is a secksy putter

[Redman]

Is there a picture of the paperweight mini on Bob's desk?

 

Yes...TMGolfGuy posted one somewhere. Did you read through the thread at all?

[biscuity]

Is there a picture of the paperweight mini on Bob's desk?

 

I do not remember seeing a photo of a paperweight on Bettinardi's desk. There is a photo or two of the Scotty Cameron Mini that Bettinardi milled and kept in his putter collection.

 

 

Hey forgism, you're good buddies with Bob, ask him how many Cameron Mini Classics were ordered, how many he milled, and how many he actually delivered to Cameron.

 

That would pretty much end your conspiracy theory.

[biscuity]

How can you not acknowledge that it exists. People have to believe the world is flat then. To ignore that BB's Mini does not exist is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard. But then again, there is no love loss between the ardent SC camp and BB even though BB created many of the beloved SC putters these hypocrites covet. Just my 2 cents.

 

Bettinardi was a supplier, he was probably given permission to keep a production sample(s) for documentation. That doesn't mean that those are considered official sellable putters. They would not get COAs if they were sent in. Would you say 1/8 if you only placed an order for 5 putters?

[Pure745]

This is very noble of you Biscuit..

[xxio]

Would you say 1/8 if you only placed an order for 5 putters?

 

 

No....... but would you say "fewer than 5", when you have stamped one 1/5?

[biscuity]

Would you say 1/8 if you only placed an order for 5 putters?

 

 

No....... but would you say "fewer than 5", when you have stamped one 1/5?

 

 

Myself personally, if I ordered 5 I would say 5 were produced. But I don't know the exact details.

 

Maybe I would say less than 5 if I knew for sure that one had never been made into a complete putter, or if I knew one had been damaged beyond repair/destroyed/lost/stolen. If one of the 5 is certainly gone, then saying "less than 5" will make them more valuable to some people. (Yes Stage1350, it's a shame but some people do care about the collectible value more than the actual performance of the putter, sorry :) )