Scotty Cameron Classic Mini

[tpariff]

Where is this third party facility? What is at the custom shop if the retail putters arn't?

 

Don't quote me on this, but the name K-Tech pops up quite often when a question arises about the milling facility.

 

http://www.k-techmachine.com/index.html

 

The custom shop is just that, a place to get your putter restored or pimped. If you need a putter restoration, paint fill, a new grip, or want Pro Platinum finish applied to your putter, then you send it to the custom shop. They don't manufacture new putters from a block of steel to a finished product.

 

Kevin

[tpariff]

So I want to know all the big hoopla with Scotty Cameron and his putters if he has NEVER made his own putters. Hell, evidently he didn't even design them at all. Sounds like he is Billy Mays of the putter world. Like I said, I have had several and have liked them, but that has nothing to do with his name.

 

He HAS made his own putters. I'm sure foregasim can provide more detail that I can, but in the early years Scotty hand made putters. In fact, I'm pretty sure Scotty does some true hand mades today where he either starts with a block of steel or a raw head and shapes it manually. Don't think for a second that he CAN'T make a putter because that would be 100% wrong. It's just that as his business grew, he obviously couldn't hand make each and every putter and chose to outsource the production. It could have been Acushnet's decision.

 

Kevin

[Black Shamrock]

So I want to know all the big hoopla with Scotty Cameron and his putters if he has NEVER made his own putters. Hell, evidently he didn't even design them at all. Sounds like he is Billy Mays of the putter world. Like I said, I have had several and have liked them, but that has nothing to do with his name.

 

 

I believe he did make his own putters before he signed with Mizuno. I think he had a partner, but I forget the story. I am enjoying this putter history lesson. Foregasim keep it coming. You should write a book. It seems all the big names of today (Byron, Tad, Cameron, Bettinardi, etc.) are related in one way or another.

[tpariff]

So I want to know all the big hoopla with Scotty Cameron and his putters if he has NEVER made his own putters. Hell, evidently he didn't even design them at all. Sounds like he is Billy Mays of the putter world. Like I said, I have had several and have liked them, but that has nothing to do with his name.

 

 

I believe he did make his own putters before he signed with Mizuno. I think he had a partner, but I forget the story. I am enjoying this putter history lesson. Foregasim keep it coming. You should write a book. It seems all the big names of today (Byron, Tad, Cameron, Bettinardi, etc.) are related in one way or another.

 

It's almost like all the west coast offense guys in the NFL all tie back in one way or another to Bill Walsh.

 

Kevin

[cardia10]

It was kind of obvious looking at K-Tech's website that their products page shows a couple of older model production camerons that they have made.

[rrkman]

One thing Bettinardi did not like about the Mizuno putters, and all putters for that matter, was that when a neck was involved the putters were two pieces that got welded together. Welding was expensive and it distorted the metal. Bettinardi developed or invented the technology and programs to CNC mill putters as one piece. He was the first person to accomplish this feat and is why he holds the patent/trademark for One Piece Technology.

 

After Cameron/Titleist moved away from Bettinardi, I am sure for cost reasons, the quality of the putters degraded. The next generation of the TeI3 had production problems because the insert would not fit seamlessly into the face. A design change was made to add space around the insert and fill the gap with caulking. In 1999 Pro Platinum (nickle platting) was introduced on the Cameron/Titleist line: a good way to hide imperfections, welded necks, etc.

 

for size reasons, I only quoted part of your message.....

 

Thanks for the info....does he still hold the patent for the one-piece, aren't other people doing it, has it expired, or have people found a way around it? Just curious.

 

Also, the plating....I'm sure that it does hide some imperfections but isn't another main reason durability for the carbon steel?...or where they just looking for something, primarily to hide the imperfections?

[tangojay]

I have actually read 80% of the posts here, of course we all took sides. The geocities blog was brought up and no one has denied weather it's contents (the member posts) were legit.

 

Are those posts legit?

 

Because some are very demeaning to the members of TCC !

[rrkman]

I have actually read 80% of the posts here, of course we all took sides. The geocities blog was brought up and no one has denied weather it's contents (the member posts) were legit.

 

Are those posts legit?

 

Because some are very demeaning to the members of TCC !

 

I have no idea how legit the post are but the one thing that I do know is that these are only a select few posts and even these have some interesting posters that are no longer part of TCC....and they do tell an interesting story but I would like to know the entire story. Not deflecting blame away from the current TCCers that this was meant to 'out'....just saying that it seems like a lot of the people that show up with information against cameron were also part of the OBC not that long ago. I realize that they are probably all gone, but until I see all the posts, I will have questions about who else was in the 'club', who else participated in these conversations, and what the rest of the conversations were about.

 

BTW, I saw this stuff a long time ago and it did not keep me from joining TCC - where I've met some quality people and have found some great information....it also didn't keep me from joining some other forums as well.

[Pondy]

Gents, I'm finding this thread to be a wonderful lesson, in so many ways.

 

As a relativley new 'ho', I'm eating this stuff up and I mean to say thank you for the education.

 

Please keep it coming, please keep it on the factual side, this is really good stuff :golfer:

[geogolf]

So I want to know all the big hoopla with Scotty Cameron and his putters if he has NEVER made his own putters. Hell, evidently he didn't even design them at all. Sounds like he is Billy Mays of the putter world. Like I said, I have had several and have liked them, but that has nothing to do with his name.

 

He HAS made his own putters. I'm sure foregasim can provide more detail that I can, but in the early years Scotty hand made putters. In fact, I'm pretty sure Scotty does some true hand mades today where he either starts with a block of steel or a raw head and shapes it manually. Don't think for a second that he CAN'T make a putter because that would be 100% wrong. It's just that as his business grew, he obviously couldn't hand make each and every putter and chose to outsource the production. It could have been Acushnet's decision.

 

Kevin

 

 

Actually, no Cameron is indicated as a "handmade" since 1997. COA # A009413

[sirisaacnewton]

i really like my scotty cameron

 

 

Oh, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAH!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

sorry I couldn't help myself...

 

haha yea man! i even like it tho i dont have a COA and even tho bob says that it passed by inspection and didnt get the apporoval of scotty cameron .. ppl still argue that its still a scotty due to the manufacturing specifications and for the reason that its so darn close to a scotty head ... however after sending into an expert they have told me that the grip may be fake due to the extra couple of cordlike material it was not how it was supposed to be and therefore maybe a toss out... if this is the case a cameron insider must have dug through cameron's trash....therefore it being stolen it may not get a COA...

 

SCOTTY CAMERON: you are a genius due to your spectacular marketing people actually care enough to argue about your putters on the internet ... no publicity is bad pub ...

[tangojay]

Question for the experts:

 

Is it true that if say Cameron were to leave Titleist, he can't use Scotty Cameron on putters because Titleist owns the rights to Scotty Cameron ?

[geogolf]

Question for the experts:

 

Is it true that if say Cameron were to leave Titleist, he can't use Scotty Cameron on putters because Titleist owns the rights to Scotty Cameron ?

 

They (Acushnet) do own the rights to the name and many of the patents:

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/legalinfo.aspx

 

I would imagine- 1) If a contract expired , they could release the name. 2) he would have to buy his own name back.

[hodges]

It is my understanding that Mr. Bettinardi was asked "if" he could mill a one piece Anser style head for Titliest/Scotty Cameron.

 

 

In early 2000's the marketing slogan changed from Made In America to Assembled In America and reference to the putters being one piece milled from sold billets of steel was no longer included in the descriptions of the putters. Much speculation ensued that some of the Cameron/Titleist line was cast in China and imported into the USA where they were skim milled and had the necks friction welded to them. It did not help matters that some of the putters necks snapped off in a clean break when they were being adjusted for lie by those that purchased them.

 

 

Doesn't the law require that there be a sticker noting the country of origin. Just like all the OEM's clubs now come with stickers they say made in china. I don't remember ever seeing a Cameron putter with such a sticker.

 

Thanks for posting the links earlier, I was hoping for a picture of all 3 mini's. Are they still all unfinished putters?

 

I wish I had the time to be more than a drive by poster. My job doesn't allow for easy access to the internet. I read a lot about the topics I am interested in and post according.

 

Hey we share something in common, we both join May 12, 2005

 

You did post one interesting tidbit I have never seen posted anywhere else

I quote from your post #67

 

"Actually when Scotty and Bob parted ways in the late 1990's Scotty decided to sue Bob"

 

 

While everyone know they parted ways, no one speaks (or can legally speak ?) about what happened. Seems like your in the know, care to elaborate

[Redman]

How can I get to the geocities blogs? When I click on the links provided it tells me that it is unavailable.

 

Nevermind, I got it now. Which part should I be looking at?

[xraes]

Got a chance to speak to Bob at Tinley Park last week about this putter, which I had in hand. Yes, he milled it, and yes, it's real.

I personally could care less what COA desigantion it would receive from the studio - it's the only Cameron putter I own. One of the "missing links" I guess.

 

 

Rodney

[captain3jack]

Xraes, Thanks for posting. And thanks to foregasim for setting my account of the manufacturing details straight.

Thats why he's the man.

[psygolf]

Question for the experts:

 

Is it true that if say Cameron were to leave Titleist, he can't use Scotty Cameron on putters because Titleist owns the rights to Scotty Cameron ?

 

They (Acushnet) do own the rights to the name and many of the patents:

 

http://www.scottycameron.com/legalinfo.aspx

 

I would imagine- 1) If a contract expired , they could release the name. 2) he would have to buy his own name back.

Funny how a man who has a trademark hold on arbitrary things like "dancing crowns" & colors like "optic-yellow," yet does not own his name...that's rich!

[biscuity]

Got a chance to speak to Bob at Tinley Park last week about this putter, which I had in hand. Yes, he milled it, and yes, it's real.

I personally could care less what COA desigantion it would receive from the studio - it's the only Cameron putter I own. One of the "missing links" I guess.

 

 

Rodney

 

X-cell has the equipment to make any putter. They could pump out those Honeycomb faced Camerons all day long if they wanted to. They could make more of the $40,000 Classic Mini putters and they would look exactly like the original. That's the risk you take when you sub out work to machine shops. Perhaps these mysterious hybrid putters and miss-counts of rare putters are part of the reason Cameron and X-cell parted ways?

[xxio]

Got a chance to speak to Bob at Tinley Park last week about this putter, which I had in hand. Yes, he milled it, and yes, it's real.

I personally could care less what COA desigantion it would receive from the studio - it's the only Cameron putter I own. One of the "missing links" I guess.

 

 

Rodney

 

X-cell has the equipment to make any putter. They could pump out those FIT faced Camerons all day long if they wanted to. They could make more of the $40,000 Classic Mini putters and they would look exactly like the original. That's the risk you take when you sub out work to machine shops. Perhaps these mysterious hybrid putters and miss-counts of rare putters are part of the reason Cameron and X-cell parted ways?

 

 

So Bettinardi was a sub contractor? I thought they were partners?

 

If he was "only" a sub contractor then it would make sense. Cameron has never acknowledged his sub contracting even up to this day. He is just being consistent :)

[Jesperday]

"Actually when Scotty and Bob parted ways in the late 1990's Scotty decided to sue Bob"

 

 

While everyone know they parted ways, no one speaks (or can legally speak ?) about what happened. Seems like your in the know, care to elaborate

 

 

Man! I'd give my left teste to know this.

[xxio]

If there was some sort of legal action there should be records somewhere, at least an intial claim/cause of action.

[Redman]

Got a chance to speak to Bob at Tinley Park last week about this putter, which I had in hand. Yes, he milled it, and yes, it's real.

I personally could care less what COA desigantion it would receive from the studio - it's the only Cameron putter I own. One of the "missing links" I guess.

 

 

Rodney

 

X-cell has the equipment to make any putter. They could pump out those FIT faced Camerons all day long if they wanted to. They could make more of the $40,000 Classic Mini putters and they would look exactly like the original. That's the risk you take when you sub out work to machine shops. Perhaps these mysterious hybrid putters and miss-counts of rare putters are part of the reason Cameron and X-cell parted ways?

 

First of all it isn't a FIT face and second of all that is about the 20th ridiculous post I have seen from you on here.

[newportbeach]

Thanks foregasim and others for some very interesting putter information and history. I thought some of you would find this interesting. It comes directly from Scotty's web site in reference to the Classic I.

 

CGI Classics Classic 1

 

''Inspired by the great history and tradition of the game, I painstakingly design, manufacture and now offer the Classic Series putter Collection.'' - Scotty Cameron circa 1993.

 

The Classic 1 model was the first of the Classic Series produced by Cameron Golf International in 1993. Scotty took an ageless design and refined it. He milled it precision, softend the angles, rounded the topline, and used soft carbon steel for exceptional feel. The specs of the Classics were 3°, 72° lie, 34.5'' in length with a swingweight of D2. The prototypes of the Classic 1 had an immediate impact on the PGA tour. Success resulted immediately with 4 PGA Tour wins including the 1993 Masters win. Cameron Golf International was on its way. The Classic 1 was produced until Cameron merged his Company with Titleist in late 1994 and was then renamed the Newport model for the Titleist line. The original Classic 1 was milled entirely from a block of carbon steel and finished in a brilliant gun blue finish. There was no mistaking the quality and craftsmanship of a Cameron putter. The angles were softer and more flowing, the topline had a slight radius for better alignment, and because each putter is entirely machined, the level of consistency could not be duplicated.

[Pure745]

Where is this third party facility? What is at the custom shop if the retail putters arn't?

 

Cameron has NEVER owned the machinery or the shop where any of the putters that bear his name have been made. The only exception would be the "handmade" putters made on a vertical Bridgeport mill. He does own the shop where all the marketing takes place. lol

 

Here are some previous posts on the site:

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1698910

 

Off subject.... Where does Cameron mass produce his putters? I know he has the Studio....but I would believe that the majority are created elsewhere. Does anyone have info on where the off the shelf Cameron's are created?

 

Currently the Cameron putters are contracted out to K-Tech Machine:

http://www.k-techmachine.com/

 

No putters are made at the Studio.

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1701303

 

In addition to using K-Tech Machine other manufactures are also used. The Kombi is being manufactured by Western CNC, Danny Ashcraft. Here is a link to their web site:

http://www.westerncnc.com

 

That is why the statement is made in the Kombi video that they are made right here in north San Diego County.

 

 

I noticed that K-Tech is in San Marcos, CA.

 

I think there's another place in San Marcos, CA that specializes in "custom stamping" and "refinishing" of putters.. I hear they do "OEM" quality work. :rolleyes:

[Tim Delgado]

this is pretty entertaining, but, Nick's post said 5 were ordered, not 5 were made. I think foregasim has overreacted a bit, but, he has provided some very interesting information.

 

Then please explain to us how Nick saw one stamped "1/5" yet posted a picture of one that has no stamp. If there's one stamped "1/5" then doesn't logic dictate that the others are stamped "2/5", "3/5", "4/5" and "5/5"? I'm no putter maker, but if I'm going to stamp something "1/5" and that item is SO rare, the other 4 putters will get stamped also to insure that there are no duplicates.

 

Kevin

 

 

 

I think Scotty/Titliest stopped numbering them after they figured out they could make as many 1/5 as they wanted.

1/100 headcovers? How is it that Tablerock always has covers at the PGA show that have been sold out for years?

AOP is still selling 1/300 covers that have been out for many years...

 

 

 

 

:lol: Kind of like how I read some time ago that Cameron said the Circle L stamp was being "retired", only to have it pop back up some time later.

 

Most "limited" items are actually only limited to the number that can be sold! :lol:

 

Marketing is marketing, and you have to give credit where it is due. Never in my life would I have believed that some silly little stamps would make grown men go crazy and pay thousands for an otherwise average (but nice) putter. :russian_roulette: I think they did something like that with Pokemon cards for kids didn't they? :lol:

 

I only wish I had thought of it!

 

Tim

[xxio]

Yup. That amount of $$$ is hard to resist.

 

I consider myself a man with pretty good principles but if I made a headcover/putter that I knew would go for $xxxxx just by stamping 1/5, 1/10. I would be tempted to bring out the stamp kit more than 1x for a 1/10.

 

Bettinardi has XCell to make him money outside of golf. What does Cameron have outside of golf?

 

Pure

 

I was a 6.9 index last February. I'm now a 10.5 index, is it almost time for me to switch to a Scotty?

[Pure745]

xxio: hahaha it may be time soon! :tongue:

[rukahs]

It is my understanding that Mr. Bettinardi was asked "if" he could mill a one piece Anser style head for Titliest/Scotty Cameron.

 

 

In early 2000's the marketing slogan changed from Made In America to Assembled In America and reference to the putters being one piece milled from sold billets of steel was no longer included in the descriptions of the putters. Much speculation ensued that some of the Cameron/Titleist line was cast in China and imported into the USA where they were skim milled and had the necks friction welded to them. It did not help matters that some of the putters necks snapped off in a clean break when they were being adjusted for lie by those that purchased them.

 

 

Doesn't the law require that there be a sticker noting the country of origin. Just like all the OEM's clubs now come with stickers they say made in china. I don't remember ever seeing a Cameron putter with such a sticker.

 

Thanks for posting the links earlier, I was hoping for a picture of all 3 mini's. Are they still all unfinished putters?

 

I wish I had the time to be more than a drive by poster. My job doesn't allow for easy access to the internet. I read a lot about the topics I am interested in and post according.

 

Hey we share something in common, we both join May 12, 2005

 

You did post one interesting tidbit I have never seen posted anywhere else

I quote from your post #67

 

"Actually when Scotty and Bob parted ways in the late 1990's Scotty decided to sue Bob"

 

 

While everyone know they parted ways, no one speaks (or can legally speak ?) about what happened. Seems like your in the know, care to elaborate

 

 

 

 

try looking harder :)

[xxio]

He meant a sticker that says "made in China". Also the putters alluded to by Foregasim are in a different time frame from the ones you posted.

 

I'm not 100% but the controversial putters that were supposedly cast in Asia then shipped over to the US for stamping/engraving was the Studio Stainless or Style line and the Bullseye style heads? Anyone with shaft bands from those putters?

 

Which begs the question if a raw head is finished/engraved someplace else what would the "made in" be? I know the original TM300 heads had heads that were all Japan from start to finish (Made in Japan sticker), then some were forged in Japan but finished in Taiwan (Made in China stickers).