USGA ball roll-back testing

[spooky]

That depends on the reason for limiting the distance it can travel. This is a very old argument going back to hickory days and something does need to be done in my opinion to stop courses having to get ever-longer and rounds for the average golfer taking ever-longer. I also hate the idea of different rules for amateurs.

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='Cornbread' timestamp='1283249974' post='2670857']
We in the US appear to have become so bored with life that we must have constant hype, drama or change to remain entertained. To me that's a form of selfishness. [b]Golf was not inventer, nor is it played for other peoples entertainment.[/b] Again, it is a sport was a very strick set of rules. Its a gentlemans game, of course therein lies the problem.... we in the US have lost much of the art of being gentlemen. Now we want fist pumps, cursing, amazement and drama.
Again, reducing the flight distance of the Golf Ball will only minutely affect the game, especially since 1/2 of our strokes are putts or chips.
I suppose these same folks that are against reducing ball distance would like to see every swing at a baseball game be an out of the park homerun. How boring that would become.
The creators of games establish rules for a reason, that being the good and fairness of their game.
[/quote]

That's great. If you don't watch the PGA for the excitement then you can just as easily turn off the TV and never watch a PGA event ever again and just go to your local muni and follow random foursomes.

[glcoach]

I canceled my USGA membership. Not because of equipment issues, which are really silly, they shouldn't have lost control of the ball 30 years ago; but because of what the USGA executive committee did to USGA employees.

The executive committee ( i.e. fat cats, who are out of touch with 99.9 percent of golfers, much less the population as a whole)slashed their benefits and pay in a cost cutting measure despite them being very financially sound. This rude, insulting mistreatment of employees by a committee who oversees the game of golf is a shame and makes a mockery of what golf is about.

[justhittheshot]

[quote name='glcoach' timestamp='1283263862' post='2671087']
I canceled my USGA membership. Not because of equipment issues, which are really silly, they shouldn't have lost control of the ball 30 years ago; but because of what the USGA executive committee did to USGA employees.

The executive committee ( i.e. fat cats, who are out of touch with 99.9 percent of golfers, much less the population as a whole)slashed their benefits and pay in a cost cutting measure despite them being very financially sound. This rude, insulting mistreatment of employees by a committee who oversees the game of golf is a shame and makes a mockery of what golf is about.
[/quote]



On a serious note. If they want to change the ball why not make the players twiddle their own balls and see how far they fly. Maybe then we can see the 331 total that won the 1901 US Open . OR we can all play with those foam practice balls, and hope that there isn't a whole lot of wind.

[Bobbers]

Grow the freaking rough a bit, narrow the fairways and let 'em fly! Nothing says courses have to be lengthened in order to influence how players will score. But when's the last time a contender got respectful credibility (as opposed to grudging recognition) for their ability to maximize distance relative to their accuracy? No, we see the announcers "oooh and ahhh" over Dustin Johnson hitting shots that travel 325+ yards regardless of where they're going to end up.

Let's go back to balata balls that the average golfer cuts up in 3-4 holes, think of what it'd do for the manufacturers if we outlawed surlyn or other durable cover materials... Or perhaps a reversion to the feather filled ball???

[heisagoalie]

probably should outlaw graphite shafts, steel shafts, steelhead woods, cavity backed irons, motorized golf carts, pull carts, plastic spikes, numbers on clubs (back to baffys and mashies for names), featheries only, and mandatory waistcoats, plus 4's, sport jackets too.

Honestly, when will it end?

[Cornbread]

[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1283261762' post='2671026']
[quote name='Cornbread' timestamp='1283249974' post='2670857']
We in the US appear to have become so bored with life that we must have constant hype, drama or change to remain entertained. To me that's a form of selfishness. [b]Golf was not inventer, nor is it played for other peoples entertainment.[/b] Again, it is a sport was a very strick set of rules. Its a gentlemans game, of course therein lies the problem.... we in the US have lost much of the art of being gentlemen. Now we want fist pumps, cursing, amazement and drama.
Again, reducing the flight distance of the Golf Ball will only minutely affect the game, especially since 1/2 of our strokes are putts or chips.
I suppose these same folks that are against reducing ball distance would like to see every swing at a baseball game be an out of the park homerun. How boring that would become.
The creators of games establish rules for a reason, that being the good and fairness of their game.
[/quote]

That's great. If you don't watch the PGA for the excitement then you can just as easily turn off the TV and never watch a PGA event ever again [/quote]

It appears that you don't get it.
It's about Golf, its about the Game, its about competition, its about watching talent or enjoying the match or course views.
I don't watch Pro Golf to hear those idiots in the crowd holler "YOU DA MAN" every time someone tee's off.

[TexasAg]

I let my membership in the USGA lapse after the grooves rollback. F*** the USGA.

[69 another time]

I`m losing all interest in watching USA golf, everything now is about distance. I don`t identify with someone that hits a 6 iron 225 yards. Everything here now is flying everything on the green. There is a tremendous amount of shots that are no longer played here, Much of European golf is still played like the older courses played here 30/40 years ago. I`m sick of COR, big headed drivers and 42 degree PW`s. I don`t like 7200 yard courses and don`t like the USGA. But something has to be done about the ball or make the penalty so great that, no one would take the chance of hitting a 300 plus drive. I remember when the pro`s used to talk about swinging at 80%, that is no longer, they come out of their shoes swinging now because the drivers let them do it. Put sand traps at 300 to 350 both sides of the fairway, with 20 yards separating them make them so severe that no one could ever hit the green and surrounded by 6 inch rough that is unplayable. I`ve cut back watching golf 70% in recent years.

[Cornbread]

[quote name='ALWAYS PRESS' timestamp='1283459327' post='2676078']
I`m losing all interest in watching USA golf, everything now is about distance. I don`t identify with someone that hits a 6 iron 225 yards. Everything here now is flying everything on the green. There is a tremendous amount of shots that are no longer played here, Much of European golf is still played like the older courses played here 30/40 years ago. I`m sick of COR, big headed drivers and 42 degree PW`s. I don`t like 7200 yard courses and don`t like the USGA. But something has to be done about the ball or make the penalty so great that, no one would take the chance of hitting a 300 plus drive. I remember when the pro`s used to talk about swinging at 80%, that is no longer, they come out of their shoes swinging now because the drivers let them do it. Put sand traps at 300 to 350 both sides of the fairway, with 20 yards separating them make them so severe that no one could ever hit the green and surrounded by 6 inch rough that is unplayable. I`ve cut back watching golf 70% in recent years.
[/quote]


Well put. I totally agree with you.

[evanrfid]

From what a have heard, the ball they've been testing with is just a deader modern ball that spins even less than tour balls. I believe it is less aerodynamic. It would be a huge mistake to make pros play a ball like this. It would be more boring to watch.

The real problem with the contemporary tour balls is that they're Pinnacles off the driver and balatas off the wedge. What they really need to do is find a way to regulate the minimum spin off of the driver in premium balls. Distance would still be rewarded, but aggressive shots would be punished more if mis-hit, like they used to. This brings shotmaking back, making the game more exciting to watch at the professional level. It also preserves the strategy of classic courses without taking away the possibility of hitting the long ball. It would bring more strategy into play, and reward the great ballstrikers.

This type of rules change wouldn't make beginners find the game more difficult, as they can play the cheap top rocks that go straighter and longer, just without the control pros and skilled players need.

[razorbird]

"As it has in the past, the USGA will publish research data when it is both timely and appropriate."

Yeah, timely like their list of conforming clubs...last time I checked, it was brutally incomplete, but published nonetheless.

[ckay]

The game of golf is ability. You are going the longer hitters because of their ability to hit the ball further than the field? Give me a break. 280yd drives on 490yd Par 4s. Yes, that will make for interesting golf

[Sage]

Leave the game alone and set up courses like the US Open. Grow out the rough, move the bunkers, and leave the ball alone.

[Legend McSniff]

[quote name='Sage' timestamp='1283665513' post='2679848']
Leave the game alone and set up courses like the US Open. Grow out the rough, move the bunkers, and leave the ball alone.
[/quote]


Exactly. I hate it when i see the bomb & gouge brigade miss a fairway by 50 yards and pull a great lie and a clear shot to the green. Without marshalls and a crowd to find their ball for them they'd lose 3 balls a round.

Tighter fairways, punishing rough, lets bring strategy, course management and shot making back into golf.

I dont think the ball should be 'rolled back' but i think its should be held in check now. I think the driver and ball technology has pretty much hit a plateau anyway.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Legend McSniff' timestamp='1283673677' post='2679920']
[quote name='Sage' timestamp='1283665513' post='2679848']
Leave the game alone and set up courses like the US Open. Grow out the rough, move the bunkers, and leave the ball alone.
[/quote]


Exactly. I hate it when i see the bomb & gouge brigade miss a fairway by 50 yards and pull a great lie and a clear shot to the green. Without marshalls and a crowd to find their ball for them they'd lose 3 balls a round.

Tighter fairways, punishing rough, lets bring strategy, course management and shot making back into golf.

I dont think the ball should be 'rolled back' but i think its should be held in check now. I think the driver and ball technology has pretty much hit a plateau anyway.
[/quote]

I don't think that tigher fairways or higher rough is feasible for many sites since they aren't designed to be set up that way. This issue has more to do with the strength, conditioning and teaching techniques available to every high level amatuer and Tour player. I think that if you were to hand today's Tour player the balata ball from the early 80's, that they would still be hitting it as far and scoring the same. Just the same way the best NFL team from the 70's would be destroyed by any of todays teams. Bigger stronger, faster, better coached.

If you truly want the scores to come down, take away all the launch monitors, gyms and high calibre instruction and you will see it just the way it was before when Nicklaus and Seve bomb & gouged it with the best of them.

[Spanish Bull]

I can already see the USGA making the pros use near-perfectly round golf balls (i.e. very shallow dimples, if any) or the rocks that we use at the range. Seriously, if they want to add more challenge for the pros there are other ways to do it as some have already mentioned: more rough, narrow fairways, undulate the fairways more, more trees, position the tees in a location that requires the pros to 'work' the ball more, etc.

Since many pros have already switched to softer golf balls due to the groove change, isn't distance being regulated already by default? (softer ball = more spin = less roll = less total distance). Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[jimb]

Here's the problem:

Men in particular are fixated too much on how far they hit it. Who cares, really!? There should be one ball for everyone.

Golf courses have lots of tee boxes. Play from the one you feel comfortable with. The ball needs to be changed for everyone.

[Sawgrass]

I don't want to use a different ball that the pros do.

And I don't want to lose the sound and the feel and the joy and the (modest) distance I get now.

Leave the ball where it is -- build new tees for the pros if you want, or don't bother. I don't care about the other stuff nearly as much as I care about the above. (I'll watch Bubba tee off with a nine iron on a par 5 if that's what it comes to.)

[ibradley]

A friend of mine played in the USGA rolled back ball testing event a couple of weeks ago. He said the game was WAY MORE FUN with the short ball. The game is far more interesting when you have to play a variety of clubs and not just short irons.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='rob_roy28' timestamp='1283216002' post='2670038']
Cornbread, the game of golf is stagnant at best, the reason being just as many people leave the game as pick it up. You dont want to make the game harder for the normal golfer
[/quote]

Golf is stagnant because Golf as an industry can only grow so much. It's inherently limiting due to the financial requirements and time needed to enjoy it. It's not like softball, baseball or basketball where people can show up at the park or field and get a game going. Golf requires an investment, a sizable patch of "costly" Real Estate, expensive development and equipment costs, cash-flow and maintenance to keep a course and game going. Even Executive courses are costing upwards of $45 to play 4000 yards, and that doesn't include all the other operational costs. Cheap balls are $20 a dozen and hackers loose them right and left... in part reason so many rely upon finding balls. Golf is like owning horses, neither can be done cheaply.

For the golf industry to grow it's been attempting to accommodate and attract people that aren't really golfers or build their lives around the game. To a degree Industry downsizing, changing grooves and maybe the ball might help define who the golf industry should be focusing on, and let those that are uncommitted walk away. Brings me to what I've always believed, that some people might not appreciate; golf is like many other serious activities in life; it requires money, commitment and time; but more important Golf is not an entitlement...

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='jimb' timestamp='1283780927' post='2681326']
Here's the problem:

Men in particular [b]are fixated too much on how far they hit it.[/b] Who cares, really!? There should be one ball for everyone.

Golf courses have lots of tee boxes. Play from the one you feel comfortable with. The ball needs to be changed for everyone.
[/quote]

I agree with the bold words to a degree. But in the same breath, that is too often said by people that don't hit the ball that far. Saturday I played even up against a much younger guy that played to scratch. We played on a course I frequent, which is way more difficult then what his scratch game is built on; 127 vs. 139 slope. He lost four balls from hitting driver when he shouldn't, and his distance control on the putting surface wasn't as good as I expected, greens were about 11.

This guy plays college golf too. Mid way through that round he said he hates Par 4 or 5 holes that require hitting long iron or hybrid off a tee. I admit it was amazing to see him hit it 290yds in the air, at times 40yds past my ball; still I beat him by four strokes. He thought driver and wedge was the way to play the game, as that's style is acceptable on his home course, not mine. If they change the ball, it must be for everyone and tee box choices need to be re-evaluated.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' timestamp='1283785422' post='2681418']
[quote name='jimb' timestamp='1283780927' post='2681326']
Here's the problem:

Men in particular [b]are fixated too much on how far they hit it.[/b] Who cares, really!? There should be one ball for everyone.

Golf courses have lots of tee boxes. Play from the one you feel comfortable with. The ball needs to be changed for everyone.
[/quote]

I agree with the bold words to a degree. But in the same breath, that is too often said by people that don't hit the ball that far. Saturday I played even up against a much younger guy that played to scratch. We played on a course I frequent, which is way more difficult then what his scratch game is built on; 127 vs. 139 slope. He lost four balls from hitting driver when he shouldn't, and his distance control on the putting surface wasn't as good as I expected, greens were about 11.

This guy plays college golf too. Mid way through that round he said he hates Par 4 or 5 holes that require hitting long iron or hybrid off a tee. I admit it was amazing to see him hit it 290yds in the air, at times 40yds past my ball; still I beat him by four strokes. He thought driver and wedge was the way to play the game, as that's style is acceptable on his home course, not mine. If they change the ball, it must be for everyone and tee box choices need to be re-evaluated.
[/quote]

Hear! Hear!

To play this game one needs to make good choices and there are far too many golfers that have no real concept of what that means. I know far too many golfers that refuse to play certain courses because it makes them think too hard. Why have 14 clubs in your bag when all you use is your driver, wedges and putter? I love playing courses that make you use every club in the bag and you have to choose wisely on what to hit off the tee to give you the best chance at scoring.

[Pepperturbo]

Soc.. during that same game another guy kept complaining he hit it down the middle and finds his ball in 3"-4" of rough; then instead of taking his medicine, he'd try and go for the green or get to much out a difficult lie. He also liked saying "how'd I miss that putt", "com'on". He begged and begged and finally said these greens and course is unfair", etc... I finally said you have two read fairway undulations and conditions as some feed into hazards and the rough, while others will give some extra yardage. His respond "that's too much thinking"; and he was dead serious.

[MtlJeff]

this is the worst news i've heard since i've started playing golf. I cannot even put into words how much i will hate the USGA if they pass any kind of rule changing the ball. I started playing golf 6 years ago now and this is the only game i've ever known. I am 29 and i hit the ball a long way, i also play to between a 0-2 handicap. I am by no means tearing up courses by playing bomb and gouge, despite the fact that i hit it a good ways past the average pro with both driver and irons...why? Because your average course doesn't have a 11 stimpmeter fairway like the tour courses do. If i carry the ball 290 it rolls maybe 5 yds more. And on a 7000yd course i am still hitting plenty of 5-9 irons during my round.

the USGA allowed the game to be poisoned not by the ball, but by bringing in the rees jones philosephy for every damn course on the tour rotations, super slick conditions, 500yd par 4's...and they are idiotic enough to think this dampens the effect of distance, it MAKES IT EASIER FOR LONG HITTERS TO WIN! Why do you think there are more long hitters now? It's simple darwinism. Survival of the fittest, distance is required so guys train to hit it far. When someone like Tim Clark wins at the players championship, you'd think those brainless fools at the USGA would take notice, and maybe realize that a strategic course like sawgrass is what will even the playing field and limit distance, not by changing the ball and making the game harder for 99.9999% of golfers in the world. Most golfers don't hit it far enough to play a 6500yd course let alone the behemoths that people are designing, despite the fact that the back tees will never be used (there is a resort course near montreal that stretches to 7050yds, i've never seen anyone other than me play the tips in 20+ visits)

the USGA needs to stop pandering to has-beens who though they were great in their time, are just bitter old fuddy duddy's now. Crying about how kids these days have it too easy. The thing is they don't care about the future of the game, not at all, they just want to preserve things from their era, because they believe their era to be the best. That is one of the most common thing in life, the notion that everyone younger than you has it easier. Absolutely ridiculous if they change the ball, the USGA can go to hell just for considering it. Sorry for the rant but this is the game i have grown to love

[Socrates]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1283794018' post='2681636']
this is the worst news i've heard since i've started playing golf. I cannot even put into words how much i will hate the USGA if they pass any kind of rule changing the ball. I started playing golf 6 years ago now and this is the only game i've ever known. I am 29 and i hit the ball a long way, i also play to between a 0-2 handicap. I am by no means tearing up courses by playing bomb and gouge, despite the fact that i hit it a good ways past the average pro with both driver and irons...why? Because your average course doesn't have a 11 stimpmeter fairway like the tour courses do. If i carry the ball 290 it rolls maybe 5 yds more. And on a 7000yd course i am still hitting plenty of 5-9 irons during my round.

the USGA allowed the game to be poisoned not by the ball, but by bringing in the rees jones philosephy for every damn course on the tour rotations, super slick conditions, 500yd par 4's...and they are idiotic enough to think this dampens the effect of distance, it MAKES IT EASIER FOR LONG HITTERS TO WIN! Why do you think there are more long hitters now? It's simple darwinism. Survival of the fittest, distance is required so guys train to hit it far. When someone like Tim Clark wins at the players championship, you'd think those brainless fools at the USGA would take notice, and maybe realize that a strategic course like sawgrass is what will even the playing field and limit distance, not by changing the ball and making the game harder for 99.9999% of golfers in the world. Most golfers don't hit it far enough to play a 6500yd course let alone the behemoths that people are designing, despite the fact that the back tees will never be used (there is a resort course near montreal that stretches to 7050yds, i've never seen anyone other than me play the tips in 20+ visits)

the USGA needs to stop pandering to has-beens who though they were great in their time, are just bitter old fuddy duddy's now. Crying about how kids these days have it too easy. The thing is they don't care about the future of the game, not at all, they just want to preserve things from their era, because they believe their era to be the best. That is one of the most common thing in life, the notion that everyone younger than you has it easier. Absolutely ridiculous if they change the ball, the USGA can go to hell just for considering it. Sorry for the rant but this is the game i have grown to love
[/quote]

That was a rant. So... are you against playing smart or do you just want to hit it far as it was sort of unclear? Also, are you therefore against any improvements being made to the next generation of balls (i.e. the new ProV) whether they be good or bad for distance?

Read my response in #23. There is no timetable to do this kind of thing nor is it being contemplated as they are just compiling data. Also #46 regarding todays athelete.

By the way, you have more to fear from our illustrious RCGA doing something stupid than the USGA right now since they must by now realize the collosal mistake the groove rule is.

[prickle]

change whatever but make the rules the same for everyone - I hate the idea having to look at a calendar to see if my irons are safe to use.

[sergizmo]

Great post Jeff!

The driving distance for the average male golfer is something like 210 yards. Average as in the majority of golf equipment purchases. Average as in the majority of greens fees. Average as in keeping the golf industry in general alive. If the game is made harder for this group (myself being among them - I hit the ball no-where) there will be a lot of golfers quitting the game to find another hobby. Some will tough it out but some will just leave.

For the [b]VAST[/b] majority of people golf is a very hard game. Let's be honest here, the percentage of golfers who can reach every par 5 in 2 and have 9 or wedge into par 4's on even the white tees is very, very small. Most of them seem to hang out on WRX, which skews people's perceptions IMO.

The USGA is catering to the Tour. This is a mistake. They need to cater to golfers and the golf industry in general. Ask yourselves this: Would you rather watch golf on TV or play? If the PGA tour disappeared tomorrow I would still play.

If the USGA wants to roll back distance on the Tour there is a very simple solution, raise the mower blades. Driving averages would drop a good 15 yards.

Completely agree with Jeff about Nicklaus and the other old guys. Golf has been through this before when going from featheries to gutta percha (OMG, it will kill the game!) and from hickory to steel shafts. Who's to say that the 70's were the ideal time in golf?

Serge

[HeadonaStick]

[quote name='Cornbread' timestamp='1283295020' post='2672214']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1283261762' post='2671026']
[quote name='Cornbread' timestamp='1283249974' post='2670857']
We in the US appear to have become so bored with life that we must have constant hype, drama or change to remain entertained. To me that's a form of selfishness. [b]Golf was not inventer, nor is it played for other peoples entertainment.[/b] Again, it is a sport was a very strick set of rules. Its a gentlemans game, of course therein lies the problem.... we in the US have lost much of the art of being gentlemen. Now we want fist pumps, cursing, amazement and drama.
Again, reducing the flight distance of the Golf Ball will only minutely affect the game, especially since 1/2 of our strokes are putts or chips.
I suppose these same folks that are against reducing ball distance would like to see every swing at a baseball game be an out of the park homerun. How boring that would become.
The creators of games establish rules for a reason, that being the good and fairness of their game.
[/quote]

That's great. If you don't watch the PGA for the excitement then you can just as easily turn off the TV and never watch a PGA event ever again [/quote]

It appears that you don't get it.
It's about Golf, its about the Game, its about competition, its about watching talent or enjoying the match or course views.
I don't watch Pro Golf to hear those idiots in the crowd holler "YOU DA MAN" every time someone tee's off.
[/quote]
So why not just head out to the local muni to watch some random foursome? Because there is entertainment value in watching professionals.

That said, the USGA is supposed to shepherd the game for ALL golfers, not just the 0.001% of freakishly good golfers (who also happen to be entertaining to watch [i]because[/i] of their freakish ability). Very few golfers sniff par from the forward tees let alone the tips. Groove rollbacks, ball rollbacks etc. hurt the average golfer and have little effect on freakishly good golfers.

By the way, rolling the ball back will not silence the "IN THE HOLE" doofus, prevent fist pumps swearing. It may limit the amazement and drama which will hurt the PGA Tour and ultimately the health of golf in general.

And just so you know, you contradicted yourself when you said "its about competition, its about watching talent or enjoying the match." Those things are specifically about drama and amazement and to some extent fist pumping and even cursing. They get your heart pumping and emotionally involve you. In short, they entertain you, unless you are some emotionless automaton.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1283796241' post='2681687']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1283794018' post='2681636']
this is the worst news i've heard since i've started playing golf. I cannot even put into words how much i will hate the USGA if they pass any kind of rule changing the ball. I started playing golf 6 years ago now and this is the only game i've ever known. I am 29 and i hit the ball a long way, i also play to between a 0-2 handicap. I am by no means tearing up courses by playing bomb and gouge, despite the fact that i hit it a good ways past the average pro with both driver and irons...why? Because your average course doesn't have a 11 stimpmeter fairway like the tour courses do. If i carry the ball 290 it rolls maybe 5 yds more. And on a 7000yd course i am still hitting plenty of 5-9 irons during my round.

the USGA allowed the game to be poisoned not by the ball, but by bringing in the rees jones philosephy for every damn course on the tour rotations, super slick conditions, 500yd par 4's...and they are idiotic enough to think this dampens the effect of distance, it MAKES IT EASIER FOR LONG HITTERS TO WIN! Why do you think there are more long hitters now? It's simple darwinism. Survival of the fittest, distance is required so guys train to hit it far. When someone like Tim Clark wins at the players championship, you'd think those brainless fools at the USGA would take notice, and maybe realize that a strategic course like sawgrass is what will even the playing field and limit distance, not by changing the ball and making the game harder for 99.9999% of golfers in the world. Most golfers don't hit it far enough to play a 6500yd course let alone the behemoths that people are designing, despite the fact that the back tees will never be used (there is a resort course near montreal that stretches to 7050yds, i've never seen anyone other than me play the tips in 20+ visits)

the USGA needs to stop pandering to has-beens who though they were great in their time, are just bitter old fuddy duddy's now. Crying about how kids these days have it too easy. The thing is they don't care about the future of the game, not at all, they just want to preserve things from their era, because they believe their era to be the best. That is one of the most common thing in life, the notion that everyone younger than you has it easier. Absolutely ridiculous if they change the ball, the USGA can go to hell just for considering it. Sorry for the rant but this is the game i have grown to love
[/quote]

That was a rant. So... are you against playing smart or do you just want to hit it far as it was sort of unclear? Also, are you therefore against any improvements being made to the next generation of balls (i.e. the new ProV) whether they be good or bad for distance?

Read my response in #23. There is no timetable to do this kind of thing nor is it being contemplated as they are just compiling data. Also #46 regarding todays athelete.

By the way, you have more to fear from our illustrious RCGA doing something stupid than the USGA right now since they must by now realize the collosal mistake the groove rule is.
[/quote]

I am all for playing smart, sorry if i was a little unclear. I am certainly not a bomb and gouger, in fact on my home course i usually play 3 iron off the tee on a 385yd par 4 aswell as a 510yd par 5. It just makes sense given the trouble i can get into playing driver. But that's the thing, so many courses these days are being revamped and redesigned, and what do we keep seeing? Holes lengthened, that's pretty much it. With the millions they spend bringing in unoriginal re-designers to add 500yds to the layout (and of course the token water on the 18th), they could add cross hazards, they could narrow fairways after 280, they could plant trees to make you consider angles. These are things that so many courses in america have, yet the PGA tour completely ignores in favor of brute distance.

i wish they would just consider things like this before altering the ball and making it harder for the millions of people who already struggle with the game. Nothing wrong with some of them having the ability to drive the ball 320yds in the air, it makes short par 4's very strategic and fun to watch. Just make them at least think about pulling fairway wood on at least half the holes and you see guys like Tim Clark win a lot more, which is good for everyone

but it's the USGA, so expect the worst. Especially if the same "legends" keep whispering in their ear

edit** sorry i didn't answer your other question. I would have no problem with them limiting the ball where it is. Just don't move backwards, isn't that un-american!