New and Improved Shaft Chart

[jdonnici]

Fantastic thread and thanks to Howard for all the q/a. I just bought the Mizuno MP-18sc irons with the KBS C-Taper lite in S flex. I'm coming from the MP-25's with PX 5.5. Personal testing - the feel of the KBS shafts felt much less harsh than the PX at roughly the same weight. Butt stiffness is likely why, but the entirety of that C-Taper lite bend profile just felt ideal for me.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has the FCM numbers on that C-Taper Lite...all I've seen is numbers for the other KBS shafts. Sorry if this was already posted and I've missed it, any help would be great!

[Dcoop86]

I tried both and went w the X7, on a track man it was slightly lower launch and apex. Spin was a touch lower but it was mainly feel that decided for me

 

Meaning the X7 felt better to you? Do mind describing the difference? And where did you have an opportunity to test them out?? I can't find anywhere that carries both for demo.

[flog2]

sorry to ask but whats FCM and is the OP post the up to date one?

 

What do people see in this chart? not a critique just looking to understand more about shafts.

[Stuart_G]

sorry to ask but whats FCM and is the OP post the up to date one?

 

FCM stands for (originally) Brunswick (later Royal Precision) Frequency Coefficient Matching scale. Think of it as a numerical alternative to the more traditional flex labels such as ladies, senior, regular, stiff, x-stiff (sometimes referred to as LARSX).

 

What do people see in this chart? not a critique just looking to understand more about shafts.

 

As many know, there is no standard for flex so people (mistakenly) try to use this rating as a more uniform way to measure and compare 'flex' across different companies and different shaft models (which is the point of the table). However, it's actually very poor way to do that since it's based on butt frequency - which is a very incomplete representation of the flex. As with any other butt frequency matching - it's ONLY really useful in the context of matching shafts of the exact same model in a set.

[franklin15]

would a club that is built 1/2" longer be the same as soft stepping?

[Stuart_G]

would a club that is built 1/2" longer be the same as soft stepping?

 

No. not even remotely the same. Might even be closer to hard stepping IF you reduced the head weight to swing weight the same as it was at the shorter length.

[EHolm]

Still no info on where the $-taper fit in?

[mdgates21]

Does anyone know where the AMT X100 would fall in this chart? Same as X100? The reason I ask is, I recently got those shafts and they feel more like the X100 SS1X. Just curious if anyone has ever checked them.

[j-daniel]

Does anyone know where the AMT X100 would fall in this chart? Same as X100? The reason I ask is, I recently got those shafts and they feel more like the X100 SS1X. Just curious if anyone has ever checked them.

 

My understanding as I've been looking at getting some AMT X100 is that the 37" 9iron/wedge shaft is the same as normal dynamic gold in every which way. The differences come from there so in my understanding with every shaft being 3 grams lighter from there they are slightly softer iron to iron. So in some way through the set the are progressively softer as well as lighter compared to normal Dynamic Gold.

 

Which I hope will help me with some consistency in my longer irons.

[Stuart_G]

According to TT, the bend profile is supposed to be consistent across all the weights. They are not 'flighted' and supposedly they don't get softer as weight decreases into the longer irons. Some might see a slight increase in launch in the longer shafts but that's because of small increases in swing speed from the lighter shafts, not because of a softening of the profile.

[twjames]

Howard Jones asked me to help him post his new and improved shaft chart. Enjoy. Click the chart to enlarge.

 

Great Chart!

[twjames]

terrific chart!

great reference point!

[ecfritts]

Great chart...I was wondering if the C taper stiff and C taper lite stiff are the same as far as the chart goes? Obviously there is a weight difference, just wondering if they (lites) cycled less / softer.

 

Thanks.

[BostonWRX]

Need to get the DG 120s on there. Great chart

[PaulCGaffney]

awesome resource. Thanks!

[twjames]

this is great! lots of good info.

[mizuno player]

Anything like this showing the Modus 3 tour shafts?

[EHolm]

$-taper needed on here

[rebby]

$-taper needed on here

 

+1

[jasonp87]

Id love to see this updated and all Nippon Shafts included

[Howard_Jones]

Id love to see this updated and all Nippon Shafts included

 

It want happen,unless someone-else does it, it want be me, and its been explained why, so anyone who feels the call to do it, just jump on it.

[twjames]

Great Chart!

Thank you for your effort.

[Violet07]

Awesome resource. Does anyone have information on where the Oban steel shafts fall on this chart?

[mesegrn]

Howard,

I am currently playing project x 5.5 in my irons and my 5 iron is 38.5 inches in length. I like the swing weight (currently D4) but feel as though I'm spinning the ball too much and losing distance. I am thinking of going to a S400 or maybe stiffer with X100ss. Do you think this will help and what can I expect in terms of spin rate / ball flight? How can I keep the swing weight down as well?

[Howard_Jones]

Simply tweak lofts stronger.

To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

[Dcoop86]

Simply tweak lofts stronger.

To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

 

I’ve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and I’ve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

 

If I just strengthen loft, I’ll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange I’d think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight I’m getting is what it is? I’d love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just won’t happen correct?

 

I’m playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to “lower” (meaning it should be playing lower?) and I’m still a high ball hitter. I’ve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

 

I’m curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say “deal with your flight” rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

[mesegrn]

Simply tweak lofts stronger.

To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

 

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

[Howard_Jones]

Simply tweak lofts stronger.

To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

 

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

 

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

 

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

 

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name=Howard Jones' timestamp='1524104949'

 

post='17234966]

Simply tweak lofts stronger.

To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

 

I’ve seen you mention this (or something very similar) before and I’ve always been curious about distance. At my swing speed I launch the ball VERY high and generate a lot of spin. One major swing fault being a steel AoA causing high spin loft. My question is at about 100mph for a pitching wedge, 110mph for a 6iron and 130mph for a driver....

 

If I just strengthen loft, I’ll end up hitting my wedge 180 and the gaps would get awfully strange I’d think? At what point would say height and spin are just factors of speed and swing dynamics and that the flight I’m getting is what it is? I’d love to flatten my flight (especially in to the wind) with just a normal swing but to some degree it just won’t happen correct?

 

I’m playing PX 7.0 in the irons and an 8* tour issued head set to “lower” (meaning it should be playing lower?) and I’m still a high ball hitter. I’ve been told both, I need to lower my flight and that my flight is great for my speed and to think of it as an advantage.

 

I’m curious what you think about my situation? At what point would you say “deal with your flight” rather than continuing to strengthen lofts? Thanks in adavance!!

 

Go see a good clubfitter, you are at a higher CS than the heads we play is made for, so we have to look at the small parameters too. Example, PX has a higher tip to butt deflection ratio vs DG, but even if these numbers seems small on the paper, real life is different so maybe i was "Lucky", but those PX players ive seen with a extreme high apex got way lower using DG. (In your case try DG X7)

[mesegrn]

Simply tweak lofts stronger.

To much spin (if thats so),is to much loft, the ball dont know where it came from. A shaft like DGX100 could make a small differece, but now you added close to 15 gram shaft weight, and shaft weight is not the job for ball flight, so we mess up a lot, to get ball flight right, but that should be done using loft

 

Would a 120gram S400 help me at all? It's just 5 grams heavier than my project x 5.5. I really like my lofts and prefer not to decrease them.

 

That depend on your swing. A shaft can add or reduce loft at impact, nothing else, and loft is loft, so if you think that a shaft who reduce loft by 1 or 2 is any different than adusting static loft 1 or 2, somesne filled your head with BS about shafts.

 

Your distance/Gapping will change no matter way we go, we cant overrule that, since what we are talking is still loft.

 

Some players get hung up in things like bounce, same same, if we tweak the head 1 or use a shaft that reduce loft by 1, we loose 1 of bounce, and we cant prevent that either so "Liking" loft specs is not very smart if you want a different ball flight, since thats a loft issue

 

I guess I need to be more specific. I don't want to change loft only because I don't hit the ball very high as it is, so I was assuming that decreasing the loft would make it worse. I am just looking for a shaft this will reduce the spin rate in my ball, not my loft. So I was thinking that by going stiffer that it would achieve this goal. I pick the golf ball, not a digger at all. I hit pitching wedges all the time and never disturb the turf. So what about a shaft with as stiffer tip and active mid section like the Project X LZ?