New and Improved Shaft Chart

[Howard_Jones]

So I asked this in another thread but....

 

So quick question. Even though the PX 6.0's cpm a tad softer than x100's from a purely design stand point should they spin less in the hands of the same player? Late release, moderate transition, longer swing. Driver SS ~115

 

Yes on the paper PX 6.0 has a higher launch and spin vs X100 and S300

[davlterr]

All this is confusing on how me as a player should/could use this chart for better shaft selection

[Howard_Jones]

All this is confusing on how me as a player should/could use this chart for better shaft selection

'

The chart is NOT made for you as a player, its for club fitters, and its not for choosing a shaft to play, but to find a starting point for testing.

[drvrwdge]

So I asked this in another thread but....

 

So quick question. Even though the PX 6.0's cpm a tad softer than x100's from a purely design stand point should they spin less in the hands of the same player? Late release, moderate transition, longer swing. Driver SS ~115

 

Yes on the paper PX 6.0 has a higher launch and spin vs X100 and S300

 

Launch and spin than an s300? Thought PX were supposed to be lower spinning?

[Howard_Jones]

So I asked this in another thread but....

 

So quick question. Even though the PX 6.0's cpm a tad softer than x100's from a purely design stand point should they spin less in the hands of the same player? Late release, moderate transition, longer swing. Driver SS ~115

 

Yes on the paper PX 6.0 has a higher launch and spin vs X100 and S300

 

Launch and spin than an s300? Thought PX were supposed to be lower spinning?

 

Its quite simple really.

Spin is a product of several factors, but the one we shall pay attention to here is loft at impact or dynamic loft.

The higher dynamic loft is, higher will launch be, so with spin.

Depending on club speed we generate 200 - 300 rpm pr degree of loft.

Launch angle changes by 50% of difference to dynamic loft for irons.

 

When we now look at the shaft the shafts ability to add dynamic loft can be expressed as Tip to Butt deflection, or the relative difference in stiffness between butt and tip side. Players with either, a fast tempo, heavy load and or late release will see a difference to loft at impact depending on differences in tip to butt deflection.

 

If 2 shafts is close to equal in all 7 sones, the shaft with the stiffest butt would then be the highest launching (highest T/B ratio), and when we look at the profiles on DG vs PX we see that PX is very stiff all over, and extra stiff butt side compared to DG, so even if PX might seem stiffer and feel stiffer, the profile (T/B ratio ) makes PX to launch a tad higher than DG, and spin has to follow since its a product of loft, but we talk small numbers.

 

If you go to Hirekos DFSi listings, you will find Butt and Tip deflection for most shafts out there, and both DG and PX are around 1.4 as T/B ratio so to see the difference you have to do the math your self to get decimals.

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9d1SI20LkVASmltYUl1UThiZFk/view?pref=2&pli=1

[BillMurrayGolfing]

Everytime I see this post makes me wanna grab a Bud Lite.

[davlterr]

Think I'm going to go with xp115 s300 hard stepped

[deltapapatango]

Would ProjeCT X LZ shafts change the shaft flex you need or would it be the same as PX?

[Howard_Jones]

Would ProjeCT X LZ shafts change the shaft flex you need or would it be the same as PX?

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/376918/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-project-x-lz-iron-shafts/

[tercoidegw]

Wich is the shaft in the long irons on the PX 6.5 flighted? I mean, I know the flighted set is a mix of shafts. I liked the feel and fligth of the 5 to 3 irons on that set, hated the short irons. Maybe is possible to make a set on that specific shaft. Thank you.

[Howard_Jones]

Wich is the shaft in the long irons on the PX 6.5 flighted? I mean, I know the flighted set is a mix of shafts. I liked the feel and fligth of the 5 to 3 irons on that set, hated the short irons. Maybe is possible to make a set on that specific shaft. Thank you.

 

The long irons iron a set of PX 6.5F is close to PX 7.0 SS1 (a bit softer than SS1)

Short irons is close to PX 6.0 HS1, where weight drops and feel might be a little hars for some

 

Maybe WEIGHT is the reason you like your long irons the best, and added launch in the long is good for most of us, but if you use the same shaft all the way (SS1), dont forget that you add launch both to the mid and short irons.

 

PS!, the PX Flighted series is discontinued

[tercoidegw]

Wich is the shaft in the long irons on the PX 6.5 flighted? I mean, I know the flighted set is a mix of shafts. I liked the feel and fligth of the 5 to 3 irons on that set, hated the short irons. Maybe is possible to make a set on that specific shaft. Thank you.

 

The long irons iron a set of PX 6.5F is close to PX 7.0 SS1 (a bit softer than SS1)

Short irons is close to PX 6.0 HS1, where weight drops and feel might be a little hars for some

 

Maybe WEIGHT is the reason you like your long irons the best, and added launch in the long is good for most of us, but if you use the same shaft all the way (SS1), dont forget that you add launch both to the mid and short irons.

 

PS!, the PX Flighted series is discontinued

 

I love weight but dont have enough power to swing a 7.0 even if its softstepped. Thought it was another kind of shaft.

[Todai]

Thanks for this great resource. I was just wondering if you have any information on how the Nippon shafts fit into this chart. Thanks.

[Howard_Jones]

Thanks for this great resource. I was just wondering if you have any information on how the Nippon shafts fit into this chart. Thanks.

 

Im sorry but i did not deal with Nippon shafts so i dont have comparable specs for them

[QMany]

Howard, I'm sorry if this has already been addressed. I play KBS Tour X (no stepping) but +1/2". I've always wondered how does that extra length affect the profile, flex, etc.? Thank you.

[dunn]

Thanks for the detailed explanation! I had always wondered about this.

 

One quick question please. Please excuse me if this was already answered. Does soft-stepping an iron shaft make it lighter? For example, if I do ssx2 on X7 for my 5 iron, would it come out lighter than a straight in X7? Thanks.

 

Yes it does reduce weight when we softstep since we cut of either 0,5 or 1,0 from butt so shaft weight goes down with the same that piece weight

 

Example Dynamic Gold 130 grams

#6 iron shaft is 130 / 38,50" = 3,37 grams pr. inch

 

Going SS1 = minus 1.68 gram

Going SS2 = minus 3.37 gram

 

There is no official term for it, but i call it "comparable weight" and since we always talk shaft weight as uncut, i like to put them up this way for compare, and then we talk different weight depending on if we go strait in, hard step or soft step, so if we use the same DG 130 grams as starting point we get this weight.

 

HS2 = 133.4 grams

HS1 = 131.7 grams

STD = 130.0 grams

SS1 = 128.3 grams

SS2 = 126.6 grams

 

It looks strange since we cant "add shaft weight" but thats what happen when we hard step, just like we loose weight when we soft step, so to make the numbers "comparable" this is how i do it.

 

On parallel tip descending weight shaft we have more or less the same issue, but those shafts dont add or loose weight if we change tip trim for hard or soft step, but i compare them at the same "uncut length" as tapers, so if we follow the same DG example it look like this:

 

DGS 300 is 130 grams at 41.00" and thats 3.17 grams pr. inch

A Constant weight #6 iron is 38.50" uncut so 3.17 x 38.50 = 122 grams uncut as "comparable weight"

That means DG parallels should be compared to a 122 grams constant weight shaft.

 

Do the same with what ever shaft it is, its all about grams pr. inch and since uncut length might vary, those numbers might fool us if we dont do the math like this, so many has by mistake judged DG parallel as a 130 gram shaft but its not to be compared using that weight info.

are shafts exactly weight per inch throughout entire length?.....tip is very skinny gradually widening towards top. .....I know there is shafts like kbs that have more weight towards butt.....for Dg it's same weight per inch through the length of shaft?

 

I absolUtley love the feel of Dg hands down vs anything else, and I have gamed alost every shaft out there.....it's the weight that kills me though....S300 bit too heavy and stiff and R300 a Lil heavy but too whippy though playable.....I do notice R300 being lighter, seems crazy but when you tinker a lot you notice minor changes.....had px, kbs, nippons, recoils, aero tech and blah blah....Dg feels best but I am assuming it's because of the weight that it feels so solid.....does modus 130 play similar to Dg flex for flex?....like to try it in 130 regular if it plays Lil firmer than Dg might be ticket....it's lighter by 8 grams or so raw......heard they are pretty stout

[Bimmer1]

Do we know the frequency of the C Taper Lite stiff and xstiff steel shafts?

[tercoidegw]

Wich is the shaft in the long irons on the PX 6.5 flighted? I mean, I know the flighted set is a mix of shafts. I liked the feel and fligth of the 5 to 3 irons on that set, hated the short irons. Maybe is possible to make a set on that specific shaft. Thank you.

 

The long irons iron a set of PX 6.5F is close to PX 7.0 SS1 (a bit softer than SS1)

Short irons is close to PX 6.0 HS1, where weight drops and feel might be a little hars for some

 

Maybe WEIGHT is the reason you like your long irons the best, and added launch in the long is good for most of us, but if you use the same shaft all the way (SS1), dont forget that you add launch both to the mid and short irons.

 

PS!, the PX Flighted series is discontinued

 

That's why they're running so low at eBay. So I bought a PX 6.5 fligthted 1-8 to soft step them 2x .

 

What frecuency are they supposed to play????

 

comparing to the S400 I'm playing on wedges, will they feel firmer?

[Howard_Jones]

Wich is the shaft in the long irons on the PX 6.5 flighted? I mean, I know the flighted set is a mix of shafts. I liked the feel and fligth of the 5 to 3 irons on that set, hated the short irons. Maybe is possible to make a set on that specific shaft. Thank you.

 

The long irons iron a set of PX 6.5F is close to PX 7.0 SS1 (a bit softer than SS1)

Short irons is close to PX 6.0 HS1, where weight drops and feel might be a little hars for some

 

Maybe WEIGHT is the reason you like your long irons the best, and added launch in the long is good for most of us, but if you use the same shaft all the way (SS1), dont forget that you add launch both to the mid and short irons.

 

PS!, the PX Flighted series is discontinued

 

That's why they're running so low at eBay. So I bought a PX 6.5 fligthted 1-8 to soft step them 2x .

 

What frecuency are they supposed to play????

 

comparing to the S400 I'm playing on wedges, will they feel firmer?

 

From my head, PXF 6.5 is FCM 6.8 and SS2 makes them 6.2 vs S400 who is 6.0 to 6.1, so they are a decent match, depending on how strong you want your wedges to play vs irons, but since profile is different and feel is subjective, they might feel close of very different depending on.

 

Be aware of that your long irons will be "very high launch" compared to std since they was high launch already.

[tercoidegw]

 

Be aware of that your long irons will be "very high launch" compared to std since they was high launch already.

 

I was lucky to play with a young PGA star last thursday, they hit it very very high compared to most of us so I won't mind!!!!

 

He plays PX 6.5 FL 4-PW + S400 50/54/60

 

I can swing S400 in wedges, but not the 6.5

 

Thanks Howard!

[Golfe Dude]

What club head and length

[Golfe Dude]

So tell me what exactly your looking for

[tercoidegw]

So tell me what exactly your looking for

 

A heavy shaft that's not too stiff as S400 and high flight in the long irons

 

heavy to temper my crazy swing

around 6.0FCM stiff

high in the long irons

 

for a Nike pro combo forged head

[Howard_Jones]

So tell me what exactly your looking for

 

A heavy shaft that's not too stiff as S400 and high flight in the long irons

 

heavy to temper my crazy swing

around 6.0FCM stiff

high in the long irons

 

for a Nike pro combo forged head

 

DG-PRO is about 120 grams as S300, and both total weight and resistance can be manipulated if they are a few grams to the lighter side.

If its only total weight, consider using MID size grips to add about 10 grams. (lead tape in a spiral pattern might be used, it fills equal to 1 layer BU)

If its resistance during transition and down swing, adding a gram or 3 to head weight can take care of that.

In the end its about over all feel, and how you can navigate with that club, or simply how good you can make impact to the ball.

 

http://www.truetemper.com/products/dg-pro/

[tercoidegw]

I've tried the DGPro in my last fitting and it was the worst of all in numbers and feeling. That maybe the reason it was a failure for TT

[Howard_Jones]

I've tried the DGPro in my last fitting and it was the worst of all in numbers and feeling. That maybe the reason it was a failure for TT

 

Feel is subjective, maybe "the original" Monaco Tour Prototype was better? i dont know, i never played any of them myself, but sold 9 sets Monaco (and then i could not get more...)

 

What shafts did you play or try who gave you a good feeling? never mind ball flight

[00ogopogo]

OK, stepping close to the sun.

 

I currently use 5.5 spined (satin, not certain if this matters) in MP64 D5+/- SW and it is now time to soften the shafts for a wee bit more elevation and some kick/distance.

 

Q. Will 5.5 SS1 or SS2 perform significantly different to a new 5.0 shaft set either natural or HS1?

 

Any words of wisdom from Project X or club fitting experts on the forum, thanks.

[Howard_Jones]

OK, stepping close to the sun.

 

I currently use 5.5 spined (satin, not certain if this matters) in MP64 D5+/- SW and it is now time to soften the shafts for a wee bit more elevation and some kick/distance.

 

Q. Will 5.5 SS1 or SS2 perform significantly different to a new 5.0 shaft set either natural or HS1?

 

Any words of wisdom from Project X or club fitting experts on the forum, thanks.

 

Both 5.0 and 5.5 is 115 grams in PX, so a 5.5 SS will be lighter than 5.0 strait in.

it takes about SS2 to make this 2 shafts "equal" in flex, and 5.5 SS2 would be like 112 grams "comparable weight"

5.5 SS2 will be higher launching than 5.0 strait in, while SS1 would be slightly lower than 5.0 strait in.

 

in a set of "flighted" we have "hard stepped" 5.0 as short irons for 5.5 flighted (hard stepped plus about 3/16 tip trim)

Long irons is the o-posit, its 6.0 soft stepped (minus about 3/16) in a set of 5.5 Flighted, so when you compare your thinking to this, you get the picture of what happens when we soft step or hard step PX but 1 step is LESS than "flighted" gives, while 2x is more.

[tercoidegw]

 

 

What shafts did you play or try who gave you a good feeling? never mind ball flight

 

R400 hs

PX6.5 in the 5-3

 

KBS tour 120 have good feell but too light for me

[Howard_Jones]

What shafts did you play or try who gave you a good feeling? never mind ball flight

 

R400 hs

PX6.5 in the 5-3

 

KBS tour 120 have good feell but too light for me

 

Its a big step from R400 HS1 to PX 6.5 but it seems like 125 grams or more is what you like, so i would suggest you go by weight, feel and dispersion, and then just tweak static lofts to get the desired ball flight.

Remember that the ball has no clue about where loft came from, so if its a "flighted shaft" who adds loft before impact in the long irons, or those heads is given 0.5 to 1 more loft, flight, spin and distance is the same as it would be if a shaft made the difference,

 

Since the shaft you mention is both strong and soft, what they have in common is a rather stiff mid to tip, (no high launch models) and a weight of 125 to 129 grams when you like it, so maybe a S400 SS2 at FCM 5.4 - 5.5 would fit the bill? They end up at about 128.5 grams with a flight pattern like MID launch vs standard vs S200-S300 at the same weight.