New and Improved Shaft Chart

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='cphrey' timestamp='1435595839' post='11855464']
I created a topic for this but probably should have just posted the question here. Can someone please take a look at this question and help me out? Thanks!

I am planning on tipping my KK TiNi to put in a 10.5* SLDR Mini Driver, to play at 43 inches, maybe 43.5. It currently plays at 44 inches, maybe 44.5 in most TMAG drivers ( I will have to measure and double check.) It is the 60 gram model so it plays at 65 grams and has a 3 inch tip section. I will likely have to tip it .5 just to go into the mini, but does anyone know how much more would need to be tipped or can be tipped to get as close to X flex as possible? I have looked around this forum but haven't yet found a thread that can help me with this specific issue. Thanks guys! Appreciate any help.
[/quote]

Its "all over this page" that you CANT tip trim a S flex shaft to become X or close to X
Most graphite's respond with only 1 CPM for each 0.25 tip trim, so thats 2.5 inch tip trim to go 1 flex stronger, but thats technically impossible with a tip section of only 3 inch, since there will be nothing left to insertion and ferrule.

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='tercoidegw' timestamp='1435792070' post='11872362']
Howard, how much tipping a CTaper shaft to make it play like the next one; i.e. I broke my 5 iron shaft, so I want to tip my 4 iron shaft to make it play like the 5 iron shaft. My guess is 1/2" but...
[/quote]

https://kbsgolfshafts.com/downloads/fitting-info.pdf

[cphrey]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1436243495' post='11901182']
[quote name='cphrey' timestamp='1435595839' post='11855464']
I created a topic for this but probably should have just posted the question here. Can someone please take a look at this question and help me out? Thanks!

I am planning on tipping my KK TiNi to put in a 10.5* SLDR Mini Driver, to play at 43 inches, maybe 43.5. It currently plays at 44 inches, maybe 44.5 in most TMAG drivers ( I will have to measure and double check.) It is the 60 gram model so it plays at 65 grams and has a 3 inch tip section. I will likely have to tip it .5 just to go into the mini, but does anyone know how much more would need to be tipped or can be tipped to get as close to X flex as possible? I have looked around this forum but haven't yet found a thread that can help me with this specific issue. Thanks guys! Appreciate any help.
[/quote]

Its "all over this page" that you CANT tip trim a S flex shaft to become X or close to X
Most graphite's respond with only 1 CPM for each 0.25 tip trim, so thats 2.5 inch tip trim to go 1 flex stronger, but thats technically impossible with a tip section of only 3 inch, since there will be nothing left to insertion and ferrule.
[/quote]

Makes sense. Thanks for the response.

[tercoidegw]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1436243564' post='11901190']
[quote name='tercoidegw' timestamp='1435792070' post='11872362']
Howard, how much tipping a CTaper shaft to make it play like the next one; i.e. I broke my 5 iron shaft, so I want to tip my 4 iron shaft to make it play like the 5 iron shaft. My guess is 1/2" but...
[/quote]

[url="https://kbsgolfshafts.com/downloads/fitting-info.pdf"]https://kbsgolfshaft...itting-info.pdf[/url]
[/quote]

great info, tnx

[j-daniel]

[quote name='tercoidegw' timestamp='1427204648' post='11204361']
So, in short, supossed I love my 6 iron @ D4 +0.25", a MOI matched iron+wedges for a 0.5" progressive length increments (0.25" for wedges):

4i D2.50 @ 38.75"
5i D3.25 @ 38.25"
6i D4.00 @ 37.75" <----base MOI
7i D4.75 @ 37.25"
8i D5.50 @ 36.75"
9i D6.25 @ 36.25"
P D6.62 @ 36.00"
W52 D7.00 @ 3.75"
W56 D7.37 @ 35.50"
W60 D7.75 @ 35.35"

should it look like that??
[/quote]

[quote name='tercoidegw' timestamp='1427204648' post='11204361']
So, in short, supossed I love my 6 iron @ D4 +0.25", a MOI matched iron+wedges for a 0.5" progressive length increments (0.25" for wedges):

4i D2.50 @ 38.75"
5i D3.25 @ 38.25"
6i D4.00 @ 37.75" <----base MOI
7i D4.75 @ 37.25"
8i D5.50 @ 36.75"
9i D6.25 @ 36.25"
P D6.62 @ 36.00"
W52 D7.00 @ 3.75"
W56 D7.37 @ 35.50"
W60 D7.75 @ 35.35"

should it look like that??
[/quote]

Howard loving your work on here.

I have been building a set with a 1/4" progression between 60* (35 1/4") through to 3 iron (36 3/4") I am really happy with the length no loss of distance and much improved accuracy.

currently this set is built with swingweights ranging from C4 TO D2

in an ideal world the clubs about the C9/D0 (9i PW) range are most comfortable what progression would I need to see on a swingweight scale to achieve a DIY MOI matched set?

[Howard_Jones]

If i un[color=#282828]d[/color][color=#282828]e[/color]rstan[color=#282828]d [/color]you [color=#282828]c[/color]orr[color=#282828]e[/color][color=#282828]c[/color]t, you want to us[color=#282828]e [/color]your 9 or PW as starting point at [color=#282828]C[/color]9 or [color=#282828]D[/color]0 ?

[attachment=2872056:MOI.JPG]

[j-daniel]

Hi howard yes these are the 2 clubs that feel most comfortable and when i had these clubs at standar dlength they were c9 that felt comofrtable balance wise.

What is the progression swingweight difference for a set that is made in 1/4" increments

Thanks

Jonny

[Howard_Jones]

I ma[color=#282828]d[/color][color=#282828]e[/color][color=#282828] [/color]a [color=#282828]c[/color]hart for you starting from PW at [color=#282828]D[/color]0, just[color=#282828] [/color]look at it (an[color=#282828]d [/color]a[color=#282828]d[/color][color=#282828]d[/color][color=#282828] [/color]th[color=#282828]e [/color]l[color=#282828]e[/color]tt[color=#282828]e[/color]r [color=#282828]C[/color] in front of th[color=#282828]e [/color]numb[color=#282828]e[/color]rs.)

at 4/8 its 2/[color=#282828]3 [/color]SWP
at [color=#282828]3[/color]/8 its 1/2 SWP
at 2/8 its 1/[color=#282828]3[/color] SWP

an[color=#282828]d [/color]its all th[color=#282828]er[/color][color=#282828]e[/color], r[color=#282828]e[/color]a[color=#282828]dy[/color] for us[color=#282828]e so how [/color][color=#282828]c[/color][color=#282828]oul[/color][color=#282828]d [/color][color=#282828]you miss it?[/color]

[j-daniel]

I do apologise i didnt have the chart come up on my phone browser i thoroughly appreciate that and will hopefully get these clubs matched to that over the next week and see how we go.

Thanks

Jonny

:-)

[DenZ06]

Howard, could you please make a recommendation on how I might find a shaft or way to remedy my long iron compression. Thanks!!![attachment=2894214:image.jpg]

[Howard_Jones]

Im sorry for a late answer, but that chart cant be used for anything in this matters.

i will also announce that i will not be able to follow up this tread (or others), in the near future since i will be occupied with other things than Golf equipment. Im closing down my shop the 1 of September this year, so at the moment im selling out all my stock and tools so i will no longer work with Golf equipment in a few weeks from now.

[phirty]

Howard, as it seems you may not be as active on these forums based on your announcement above, I wanted to take the opportunity to thank you for all of the excellent info you have shared here on this site.

While not an active poster, I am a very active club-builder and hobbyist who actively reads the club making forums here, and I have learned so much from you and many others who take their time to share your knowledge. Thank you very much and best wishes to you in the future.

[smoky25]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1439816769' post='12153646']
Im sorry for a late answer, but that chart cant be used for anything in this matters.

i will also announce that i will not be able to follow up this tread (or others), in the near future since i will be occupied with other things than Golf equipment. Im closing down my shop the 1 of September this year, so at the moment im selling out all my stock and tools so i will no longer work with Golf equipment in a few weeks from now.
[/quote]

Gonna miss you here my friend.

[rharvey3]

this may be the greatest post on golfwrx!

[Green1414]

Awesome, thanks for posting.

[Oknows]

Anyone able to add Nippon to this chart? Want to try one in a couple of J40 CB heads that I have lying around and am torn on which to try. Currently playing KBS Tour stiff and was suggested the NS Pro 1150 as another option. Also looking at the Modus 120 and 125.

[Racerx63]

Can someone confirm if my thinking is correct or if these two shafts are too different?

I have Ping i20's that I have put Project X 6.0's in. They are not the flighted version. I tried some Project X 95 6.0 Flighted in the Callaway X2Hot Pro's and loved the feel of them. Reading through threads I found the flighted shafts are about 1/2 flex softer than the non-flighted shafts. I am thinking if I soft step the ones I have, the feel should be similar to the flighted shafts. Is that thinking correct?

Both, my pings and the callaways, are swing weighted to D2.

Thanks for your time!

[Howard_Jones]

Flex labels is only a address in its own series of shafts, so a standard PX 6.0 vs a PX 95 6.0 is NOT equal in flex, and PX95 is NOT 1/2 a flex softer (thats standard PX vs standard PXF), so the answer is NO, you will not get a similar feeling, but a softer feel than what you got.

PX 95 6,0 Flighted is a bit softer than regular Project X 5.0 Flighted, so they are compared like "PX 4,75" vs yours 6.0 who will be 5.6 soft stepped once, so yours will still be way stronger. At SS2 you are getting closer down at about 5.2-5.3, but PX 95 F will still be softer.

[Racerx63]

Thank you very much for the detailed response Howard! I very much appreciate your help. I am glad I asked first.

[Matt_Matasy]

Just kind of curious how does FCM get measured and what exactly is it comparing??

[Howard_Jones]

[quote name='Matt_Matasy' timestamp='1447347965' post='12589476']
Just kind of curious how does FCM get measured and what exactly is it comparing??
[/quote]

It is a numerical system for judgement of flex, made by Royal Presicion to judge their own RIFLE frequency match shafts. Its ONLY the butt part of the shaft who is measured, so its not a good system to judge different shafts like its often used for by mistake.

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/496072-new-and-improved-shaft-chart/page__st__420__p__10589307#entry10589307"]http://www.golfwrx.c...7#entry10589307[/url]

...and apologize for my bad English if my explanation in that link makes no sense to you.

[attachment=3030490:The rapist.jpg]

[TTT]

Hey Howard,

If I wanted to measure the CPM of a few of my shafts to compare to some of the charts you have posted with a 2.5" clamp, but I only have access to a 5" clamp, can I just insert 2.5" of the butt of the shaft into the 5" clamp and get the same results as using a 2.5" clamp?

[Howard_Jones]

No dont do that, it cant be done like that with a good reading, and unless your shafts is RIFLE OLD model, they was not designed to be judged with a 2.5" clamp anyway, and most shafts is not.

There is a New Rifle Iron Blank out from 2012, and those shafts is measured with a 5.0" clamp, so if you for some reason insist of having a FCM Value on your gear, you can use this and have a direct compare to Rifle, but as always, Butt alone is only a tiny part of flex as a hole.

[b]RIFLE FCM > 2012 - STANDARD FLIGHT - IRONS - 5.0" clamp[/b]
- The chart is extended to include Woods just for the sake of the chart (but are not available)
- CPM slope is 8.5 pr inch or 4.25 between irons. (Old model was 4.3 or 8,6 pr inch)

[attachment=3039146:Rifle 2012 FCM irons and woods.JPG]



[b]RIFLE FCM > 2012 [/b]- [i][b]FLIGHTED IRONS - 5.0 clamp[/b][/i]
- #6 iron is equal as Standard flight, but flighted has another tip trim progression who gives a CPM slope of 11.33 pr inch or 5.66 CPM between irons both ways from #6
(Blue = higher launch - Red = Lower launch made by this tip trim/flex progression)

[attachment=3039144:Rifle 2012 FCM Flighted.JPG]

[TTT]

thanks howard, you're the man!

[TCMuc]

Can anyone tell me how the KBS Tour 90 (regular and stiff) fits into the chart in the first post? I've read it's softer than the 'normal' Tour, but by how much?

Any info would be greatly appreciated!

[rymail00]

HJ I was wondering if you have had to do any comparison of Steelfiber i95 with the steel shafts on your chart? Or is this not really possible due to it being graphite/carbon fiber structure (not sure if that matters or not)? Really just curious how they compare to the PX shafts.

[Pomps]

They use to say,go up one flex with flighted, but there is no reason to do that since they are cut to the same flex

Long irons would be soft stepped 5.5 in a set of 5.0F and short irons is hard stepped 4.5 so weight is more descending in flighted than standard.

 

If all of this is only a ball flight question, tweak lofts and stay with your shafts if they work for you.

The ball dont care where loft came from, so if its more static loft, or more dynamic loft from shaft bending, its still the same "loft" we talk about, the loft delivered to the club at impact.

 

Hi Howard...I've always had trouble keeping the ball down with short irons. I have long played PX 6.5, which I love, and after trying DG AMT X100s, I saw no improvement in keeping it down. I'm going to try the PX flighted. Just to be clear, you recommend going with the 6.5 flighted?

[Howard_Jones]

They use to say,go up one flex with flighted, but there is no reason to do that since they are cut to the same flex

Long irons would be soft stepped 5.5 in a set of 5.0F and short irons is hard stepped 4.5 so weight is more descending in flighted than standard.

 

If all of this is only a ball flight question, tweak lofts and stay with your shafts if they work for you.

The ball dont care where loft came from, so if its more static loft, or more dynamic loft from shaft bending, its still the same "loft" we talk about, the loft delivered to the club at impact.

 

Hi Howard...I've always had trouble keeping the ball down with short irons. I have long played PX 6.5, which I love, and after trying DG AMT X100s, I saw no improvement in keeping it down. I'm going to try the PX flighted. Just to be clear, you recommend going with the 6.5 flighted?

 

Im not on my own computer now, so i dont have access to my files, but first of all PX Flighted is discontinued, so they might be hard to find, but how is your angle of attack? (Picker style, little to no turf?)

Shaft profiles respond mostly to how you load and release the club, but as we go shorter, the shaft cant really bend much, but have you tried DG X100? if not, buy a #9 iron shaft, and try it of.

[Pomps]

They use to say,go up one flex with flighted, but there is no reason to do that since they are cut to the same flex

Long irons would be soft stepped 5.5 in a set of 5.0F and short irons is hard stepped 4.5 so weight is more descending in flighted than standard.

 

If all of this is only a ball flight question, tweak lofts and stay with your shafts if they work for you.

The ball dont care where loft came from, so if its more static loft, or more dynamic loft from shaft bending, its still the same "loft" we talk about, the loft delivered to the club at impact.

 

Hi Howard...I've always had trouble keeping the ball down with short irons. I have long played PX 6.5, which I love, and after trying DG AMT X100s, I saw no improvement in keeping it down. I'm going to try the PX flighted. Just to be clear, you recommend going with the 6.5 flighted?

 

Im not on my own computer now, so i dont have access to my files, but first of all PX Flighted is discontinued, so they might be hard to find, but how is your angle of attack? (Picker style, little to no turf?)

Shaft profiles respond mostly to how you load and release the club, but as we go shorter, the shaft cant really bend much, but have you tried DG X100? if not, buy a #9 iron shaft, and try it of.

 

The only measuring I've had done with irons are with the Mizuno DNA and on a GC2 with the HMT. Not sure how accurate they are, but here are the numbers anyway. The Mizuno numbers were SS 94, Tempo 8, Toe Down 5, Kick Angle 6, Release 5. The GC2 numbers with my 714 CB 6 iron (stock loft) and PX 6.5 shaft (straight in). Attack angle was generally 4.5 - 5.0 degrees. SS 94-95, ball speed 128, launch 17.7*, 5990 total spin, 181 carry.

 

I did try the DX 100 straight in, and I actually saw them launch slightly higher than my 6.5s.

[ultrafl1ght]

Just pulled a trigger on a new set of irons DG XP X100 SSx1 based on this chart. (Blizzard Jonas kept me from doing any actual testing...or leaving the house for that matter) Awesome information, thank you!