New and Improved Shaft Chart

[Scooter321]

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

 

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

 

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

[Howard_Jones]

I was at the Mizuno fitting centre. I was amazed that I was recommended the 6.5 Project X in MP5. I have been playing olf Rifle 6.5 for years and was getting the feeling that they were too stiff and heavy for me these days. I always thought that PX were more harsh feeling and played even stiffer so quite confused tbh.

 

Stupidly I forgot to pay attention to the Swing DNA numbers but I do recall the speed on it was 92. They also used Trackman and my 6 iron was 88mph avg but if I decided to hit one a bit harder it went to 92mph. 6.5 PX sound like a good fit??

 

The optimizer is only a tool to find a staring point, NOT a suggestion for what to buy, but what to try for a fitting session, so its a "dynamic" type of static fitting, nothing more.

[Howard_Jones]

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

 

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

 

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

 

What feels and works the best for the conditions you normally play, and that could be PX 6.0 at 120 grams, PX 6.5 at 125 grams or DG X100 at 130 grams. If 120 or 125 grams turns out to be the best, but standard PX feels to stiff, try PX LZ......soft or hard stepping is also a option.

 

There is no such thing as "ideal" spin and launch, its all due to conditions and what we seek.

If you play a lot of windy cources, or typical links Golf, launch and spin should be lower than for lower wind or typical "target golf", so its just like with driver fitting, do we want maximized Carry or Total, or a mix of both?

 

Look at PGA average numbers, they are AVERAGE, not IDEAL, but tells about of what the ball park this numbers is on the tour and they have the same club speed you have, but it vary a lot from player to player on all numbers and for many reasons.

 

https://i0.wp.com/bl...?resize=680,503

[Scooter321]

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

 

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

 

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

 

What feels and works the best for the conditions you normally play, and that could be PX 6.0 at 120 grams, PX 6.5 at 125 grams or DG X100 at 130 grams. If 120 or 125 grams turns out to be the best, but standard PX feels to stiff, try PX LZ......soft or hard stepping is also a option.

 

There is no such thing as "ideal" spin and launch, its all due to conditions and what we seek.

If you play a lot of windy cources, or typical links Golf, launch and spin should be lower than for lower wind or typical "target golf", so its just like with driver fitting, do we want maximized Carry or Total, or a mix of both?

 

Look at PGA average numbers, they are AVERAGE, not IDEAL, but tells about of what the ball park this numbers is on the tour and they have the same club speed you have, but it vary a lot from player to player on all numbers and for many reasons.

 

https://i0.wp.com/bl...?resize=680,503

 

Very helpful. How would you say KBS tour fits into the mix with DG and PX in terms of spin and launch? Also what are the differences in kick profiles between these shafts?

[Howard_Jones]

I am sure this has been answered in here but cant find it in such a large chain. How does Project X compare to Dynamic Gold in terms of spin, ball flight and launch angle? Thanks in advance.

 

PX vs DG is the exception from the rule where launch and spin goes 1:1, so the general consensus is that PX has a slightly higher launch, but with a little less spin than DG, but it all depend on the players swing. Feel and weight is different, so do choose one vs the other based on this since ball flight is only a question of loft at impact and should be tweaked that way. Go by weight feel and dispersion, NOT ball flight.

 

Thanks Howard. What would you say is the ideal spin and launch angle for a 7 iron? Also for someone whose 7 iron club head speed is 92mph and is a bit more of a hitter than a swinger what flex in PX would you recommend?

 

What feels and works the best for the conditions you normally play, and that could be PX 6.0 at 120 grams, PX 6.5 at 125 grams or DG X100 at 130 grams. If 120 or 125 grams turns out to be the best, but standard PX feels to stiff, try PX LZ......soft or hard stepping is also a option.

 

There is no such thing as "ideal" spin and launch, its all due to conditions and what we seek.

If you play a lot of windy cources, or typical links Golf, launch and spin should be lower than for lower wind or typical "target golf", so its just like with driver fitting, do we want maximized Carry or Total, or a mix of both?

 

Look at PGA average numbers, they are AVERAGE, not IDEAL, but tells about of what the ball park this numbers is on the tour and they have the same club speed you have, but it vary a lot from player to player on all numbers and for many reasons.

 

https://i0.wp.com/bl...?resize=680,503

 

Very helpful. How would you say KBS tour fits into the mix with DG and PX in terms of spin and launch? Also what are the differences in kick profiles between these shafts?

 

KBS Tour X would be a tad above PX 6.5 on both launch and spin, again dending on your swing, but you have to try the options out there, how it looks on the paper want tell how it feels and work. KBS C-Taper is closer to PX than KBS Tour

[maowv]

Does anyone have the CPM numbers for the Nippon shafts?

 

Modus3 105/120/125/130?

[Scooter321]

Howard - if you put Project X in your irons what are your thoughts in terms of wedges?

[Howard_Jones]

Howard - if you put Project X in your irons what are your thoughts in terms of wedges?

 

Depends on how you play them and what preference you have for weight in wedges.

Out on the Tour we see players going softer, still using PX as wedge, and that means loosing weight....not my cup of tea, i would rather use a #8 iron from 0.5 or 1.0 flex stronger (6.0 to 6.5 #8 or 6.0 to 7.0 #8)

 

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/621030-my-tiger-stepped-wedge-experiment/

[SILVERFOX1]

Howard, I use modus 120 stiff shafts as I like shafts with a softer butt section. For a driver shaft which ones would you recommend with a softer butt section? Thanks

[Fick9]

mbbrewer is right, it show different options for install, and what FCM values those gives.

 

X-100 strait in, will be 6.8, and so is KBS Tour S Hard stepped 1x (hs)

X-100 soft stepped once (ss) is 6.5, and so is PX 6.0 strait in, and KBS Tour S+ strait in, and C Taper stiff hard stepped once,

X-100 soft stepped twice (ssx2) is 6.2 , so is PX 6.5 Soft stepped 2x (ssx2), so is KBS C Taper stiff strait in, and so is KBS Tour S+ soft stepped 1x (ss)

 

You will also find the weight uncut for the shaft as Taper tip

 

If fitting shows that a certain cpm value will fit a specific player, 1 cpm up or down does not matter, so if target cpm is 6.8 like x-100 strait in, you have this options on THIS chart.

 

132 Gram - Tour X 7 ssx2 = 6.9 FCM

130 Gram - PX 7.0 SSx2 = 6.7 FCM

130 Gram - KBS Tour X = 6.7 FCM

130 Gram - X-100 = 6.8 FCM

125 Gram - KBS c-Taper S+ = 6.7 FCM

125 Gram - KBS Tour HS = 6.8 FCM

120 Gram - PX 6.0 Hs = 6.9 FCM

108 Gram - X-100 Super Light = 6.8

 

This chart DOES NOT say that this shafts will feel the same, or perform as the same.

Its only a chart to fit the need for e certain Cpm strength due to club speed and parameters from the players swing who adjust from club speed.

 

Well put!

[BostonWRX]

Any idea on CPM for KBS Tour V Stiff?

[drvrwdge]

I was recently fitted by a local club fitter who is also the equipment guy for a local division one college and in my fitting he stated that when you lengthen a stepless shaft like the c taper or the project X they actually increase in stiffness. Is there any truth in this?

[Howard_Jones]

I was recently fitted by a local club fitter who is also the equipment guy for a local division one college and in my fitting he stated that when you lengthen a stepless shaft like the c taper or the project X they actually increase in stiffness. Is there any truth in this?

 

Its not that "easy".....

The butt side is always the stiffest part of a shaft, so if we compare 2 shafts of the same model at the same length, the one with longest butt section will be the stiffest. (that should be common knowledge).

 

Scenario 2 is what happens when we go longer, or to a play length longer than standard?

That depend on the shaft profile.....RIFLE FCM go stronger when we go longer, and thats caused by its very stiff butt section vs the rest of the shaft, while a shaft like Project X seems to "stay in flex".

 

Dont forget that there is no standard for flex, except for RIFLE FCM and some KBS models, so to judge any changes, we need to know what original slope that shaft model has. Rifle FCM is "only" 4 CPM for each 0.5 inch, so if we loose less than 4 CPM when adding 0.5 inch (and we do), that means we went stronger. For a shaft like Dynamic Gold the slope is about 5 CPM, so to "stay in flex" a ,loss of 5 CPM going 0.5 longer is what we should expect, if we loose more than 5, that means we went softer.

 

There is no connection between step less and stepped shafts here, its a question of how strong the butt section is vs the rest, and what CPM slope that model has, so we cant say that "step less shafts go stronger", as far as i know thats true only for RIFLE FCM (maybe also for some KBS models, but not for PX)

[Mr. Grumpy]

Question: I play a PX 6.0 Flighted, soft stepped once, +1/2 length in my B'stone J40 DPC's. I was fit to them, but had the option of DG S300, and the KBS Tour stiff. I am ready to move on.

I like the PX fine, maybe a little boardy and neutral feeling. But now looking for something different in a new set. My plan as of this writing is to order the Cobra F7 One's but i am unsure where to start with shafts. KBS now have a lot of options, well they all do. It's all a little bit maddening.

 

I am older now since my last purchase, ss is 81 with a 7i. I tried graphite in another set, did not like the light weight. So barring a new fitting, where would be a great place to start. Thanks in advance for the help...

[Howard_Jones]

Question: I play a PX 6.0 Flighted, soft stepped once, +1/2 length in my B'stone J40 DPC's. I was fit to them, but had the option of DG S300, and the KBS Tour stiff. I am ready to move on.

I like the PX fine, maybe a little boardy and neutral feeling. But now looking for something different in a new set. My plan as of this writing is to order the Cobra F7 One's but i am unsure where to start with shafts. KBS now have a lot of options, well they all do. It's all a little bit maddening.

 

I am older now since my last purchase, ss is 81 with a 7i. I tried graphite in another set, did not like the light weight. So barring a new fitting, where would be a great place to start. Thanks in advance for the help...

 

Shaft choice starts with WEIGHT, so all i can say is that you found the graphite you tried to light, then set a mark at that weight as to low.

Now ask yourself about those PX 6.0 F, ....they might be a little heavy now?....then you know both ends, and that your next shaft is closer to ? than the other.....thats how we move on, by eliminating options outside the weight range we fits to play (plus minus 5 grams)

 

When weight is found, then its time to look at what options there is in that range, and today we find both steel and graphite up to above 130 grams so dont eliminate graphite because the ones you tried was to light.

[TigerWoodsIV]

Anyone know how the C-Taper Lites fit in here? Maybe I missed it when scrolling through, but curious what they're like in terms of stiffness vs. the normal C-Taper or Tours. I've only been able to hit the Tours in X in my friend's Mizunos, but they felt a bit too heavy for my liking. Couldn't feel the clubhead as well as I'd like if that makes any sense, plus overall weight was a bit higher than I'd like for long term playing.

 

I'm coming from some old game improvement irons I got 12 years ago, but I'm typically around a 1-3 handicap and fly a 7 iron about 170. I'm not sure whether to go C-Taper Lite S, S hard stepped, or full on X, and I'm not sure I'll be able to try any of those before I buy. The regular Tours in X impressed me, but I would like a touch more height and spin with lower weight since I typically play in low wind and value hitting to a spot and stopping vs. a penetrating flight that rolls out a bit more.

[RSK7070]

Anyone know how the C-Taper Lites fit in here? Maybe I missed it when scrolling through, but curious what they're like in terms of stiffness vs. the normal C-Taper or Tours. I've only been able to hit the Tours in X in my friend's Mizunos, but they felt a bit too heavy for my liking. Couldn't feel the clubhead as well as I'd like if that makes any sense, plus overall weight was a bit higher than I'd like for long term playing.

 

I'm coming from some old game improvement irons I got 12 years ago, but I'm typically around a 1-3 handicap and fly a 7 iron about 170. I'm not sure whether to go C-Taper Lite S, S hard stepped, or full on X, and I'm not sure I'll be able to try any of those before I buy. The regular Tours in X impressed me, but I would like a touch more height and spin with lower weight since I typically play in low wind and value hitting to a spot and stopping vs. a penetrating flight that rolls out a bit more.

 

Can't weigh in on stiffness between the two, but if you've never hit the C-tapers not sure if that's what you'll want to go with for drop and stop. In my experience, apex, spin, and launch all looked like this: Tour >> C-lite>C. The difference between the Lite and regular C-taper was there, but not huge IMO. The difference from the Tour to C is much more pronounced.

 

For what it's worth, carry 7 about the same and trusted my fitter to go with Tour X (130g) in my new Mizunos. Not sure if it was the weight or perceived heft, but didn't feel quite right. Nevertheless, the numbers didn't lie -- most consistent shaft for my swing. Coming around to it now and very glad I did. C Tapers are a beast; great for boosting the ego on total distance but wouldn't help me score any better with my game. Even with the lower weight, the C-lite's still launched considerably lower than the Tour with my swing.

[Mr. Grumpy]

Still on the shaft hunt and I have been trying different weights. I feel more confident with a range between 110 -130g's. Lighter does not work at all, and heaver feels like I am swinging wood. As the weight increases, I tire more quickly and feel like I have to over work to get the same results. Less weight and I lose where I think the head is. Sweet spot may be 115..

I have a preference to not feel or lets say perceive shaft flex just after transition. Hard for me to explain but I feel lost when the golf head and the hands are not connected. To this end, I don't think I am getting all that I can from the PX 6.0 F ssx1, it's not helping me, but it is stable, maybe too much.

 

Fitting called for a stiff shaft, but the fitter recommended stiffness not weight only answering questions with a range of stiff shafts. I am looking at the King F7 One's and have limited options without paying extra - KBS C taper, Tours and V in X, S and +, Modus3's in 105, 120, 130, and some of the TT DG line.

 

Any thoughts on these as options which would be like the PX 6.0 but slightly lighter and with a little less woody? I know the SL's will pose their own shaft choice problems, but...

[Hotdocta]

Is fcm directly related to stiffness? Does it take into account high and low launch?

[Howard_Jones]

Is fcm directly related to stiffness? Does it take into account high and low launch?

 

No and no.

Its ONLY to compare shafts who is suppose to be the same model and flex ( to prevent shafts off specs)

Its USELESS as a compare of flex on 2 different models, so even when 2 models have the same butt CPM strength, it does not tell anything about the rest of the shaft, or how the profile is as a hole.

 

The FCM system was invented by Royal Precision for use on their RIFLE FCM models, so it was never meant to be used for other shafts.

 

The only useful thing about FCM flex when we compare different models is to get a starting point for testing, just like a static fitting, so its use is very limited, and far from what many think it is. (a total/complete picture of shaft flex, but its not even close to that)

[Z1ggy16]

I'll ask here since I'm guessing I'd get more feedback, but looking for a smooth shaft for irons. Last shaft was PX LZ 6.0, which loaded nicely, but I felt I had to swing 100% to get that nice feeling out of them, otherwise they seemed like a slightly less firm version of s300 (to me). Narrowed it down to Modus 120 or C Taper Lite. I've hit them both before but it's been a little while and I don't quite remember every detail about them. 6i SS around 90, carry is probably around 165-170, medium tempo. Looking for medium launch and spin.

[deep18]

It was asked before but not answered and I'm curious too....

 

Where does KBS Tour V fit in? I assume it's going to be slightly stiffer compared to KBS Tour in the same flex.....

[Howard_Jones]

It was asked before but not answered and I'm curious too....

 

Where does KBS Tour V fit in? I assume it's going to be slightly stiffer compared to KBS Tour in the same flex.....

 

it depend on how we judge flex.

If we judge it as a butt CPM number only, then TOUR V is softer, but if we judge it as butt deflection, thren they are equal butt side (S), but Tour V has more deflection tip side, so over all, its softer. How is feels in the hand of a player might be different since less weight and relative strong flex often givs the feel of a shaft stronger than it is.

 

KBS Tour V as Taper.

Label - CPM - FCM - butt def - tip def. - T/B

 

R = 306 - 4.4 - 72 - 51 - 1.411

S = 318 - 5.6 - 79 - 54 - 1.462

X = 330 - 6.8 - 84 - 58 - 1.448

 

 

KBS TOUR

Label - CPM - FCM - butt def - tip def. - T/B

 

R - 306 - 4.4 - 74 - 50 - 1.480

S - 322 - 6.0 - 79 - 55 - 1.436

X - No data from Hireko

 

Numbers is collected /converted from Hireko DFSi

 

Within "the same flex", the lower T/B is, the lower launch is the profile, so when we compare KBS TOUR S with Tour V, its visible that butt deflection is the same on both, but TOUR has a slightly stronger tip, so its T/B ratio is also lowest on TOUR = lowest flight (potentially, depending on the players swing)

[tpgrrr1]

Thank you for putting this together. Extremely helpful!

[nygbrs222]

This chart is awesome. Thanks!

[venturagolfer87]

It was asked before but not answered and I'm curious too....

 

Where does KBS Tour V fit in? I assume it's going to be slightly stiffer compared to KBS Tour in the same flex.....

 

it depend on how we judge flex.

If we judge it as a butt CPM number only, then TOUR V is softer, but if we judge it as butt deflection, thren they are equal butt side (S), but Tour V has more deflection tip side, so over all, its softer. How is feels in the hand of a player might be different since less weight and relative strong flex often givs the feel of a shaft stronger than it is.

 

KBS Tour V as Taper.

Label - CPM - FCM - butt def - tip def. - T/B

 

R = 306 - 4.4 - 72 - 51 - 1.411

S = 318 - 5.6 - 79 - 54 - 1.462

X = 330 - 6.8 - 84 - 58 - 1.448

 

 

KBS TOUR

Label - CPM - FCM - butt def - tip def. - T/B

 

R - 306 - 4.4 - 74 - 50 - 1.480

S - 322 - 6.0 - 79 - 55 - 1.436

X - No data from Hireko

 

Numbers is collected /converted from Hireko DFSi

 

Within "the same flex", the lower T/B is, the lower launch is the profile, so when we compare KBS TOUR S with Tour V, its visible that butt deflection is the same on both, but TOUR has a slightly stronger tip, so its T/B ratio is also lowest on TOUR = lowest flight (potentially, depending on the players swing)

 

I came to this amazingly long thread hoping for some help with this very question. I'm very grateful it was at the end of the thread and not on page 14 or something. To get more specific though, how would a Tour V X softstepped once compare to the above?

[Howard_Jones]

It was asked before but not answered and I'm curious too....

 

Where does KBS Tour V fit in? I assume it's going to be slightly stiffer compared to KBS Tour in the same flex.....

 

it depend on how we judge flex.

If we judge it as a butt CPM number only, then TOUR V is softer, but if we judge it as butt deflection, thren they are equal butt side (S), but Tour V has more deflection tip side, so over all, its softer. How is feels in the hand of a player might be different since less weight and relative strong flex often givs the feel of a shaft stronger than it is.

 

KBS Tour V as Taper.

Label - CPM - FCM - butt def - tip def. - T/B

 

R = 306 - 4.4 - 72 - 51 - 1.411

S = 318 - 5.6 - 79 - 54 - 1.462

X = 330 - 6.8 - 84 - 58 - 1.448

 

 

KBS TOUR

Label - CPM - FCM - butt def - tip def. - T/B

 

R - 306 - 4.4 - 74 - 50 - 1.480

S - 322 - 6.0 - 79 - 55 - 1.436

X - No data from Hireko

 

Numbers is collected /converted from Hireko DFSi

 

Within "the same flex", the lower T/B is, the lower launch is the profile, so when we compare KBS TOUR S with Tour V, its visible that butt deflection is the same on both, but TOUR has a slightly stronger tip, so its T/B ratio is also lowest on TOUR = lowest flight (potentially, depending on the players swing)

 

I came to this amazingly long thread hoping for some help with this very question. I'm very grateful it was at the end of the thread and not on page 14 or something. To get more specific though, how would a Tour V X softstepped once compare to the above?

 

Compared to "strait in" ?

Slightly softer overall.

We can expect butt CPM to fall 3-4 CPM so FCM flex # would drop from 6.8 to 6.4-6.5

Tip side become softer because we add 0.5" inch tip going SS1

Butt side becomes slightly softer, because butt its always the stiffest side, and now cut it 0.5 shorter

Mid section becomes slightly softer, because we now use a shaft with thinner walls. (the shaft we now use was 0.5 longer than the one we moved, with the same weight, because of wall thickness differences) it also becomes slightly softer because we change a tad on the step pattern or taper diameter for step less shafts (smaller = softer))

 

 

I dont have any numbers for how much deflection changes, or how much we change T/B ratio, but we goes in direction of a higher launching shaft as a result, how much depend on the players swing, and how he respond to this changes.(small numbers no matter what, so dont expect to see big differences)

[9stick]

Still no Nippon Modus3? Would love to see how they compare

[yebritas]

Hi! The chart is great! I was wondering if there is any difference between the DGx100 and the DGx100 tour issue.. I got the tour issue ones because they fit my swing but I never tried the X100... Thank you!!!

[Howard_Jones]

Hi! The chart is great! I was wondering if there is any difference between the DGx100 and the DGx100 tour issue.. I got the tour issue ones because they fit my swing but I never tried the X100... Thank you!!!

 

Its the same shaft, Tour issue has tighter weight tolerance

(plus minus 0.5 grams for Tour Issue vs plus minus 1.5 grams on standard DG Gold)