Persimmon woods

[tembolo1284]

What a delicious thread.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1355449707' post='6065627']
I didn't think it was that much distance loss. I'll have to try it again next year.
[/quote]
To clarify, I mean I intend to use persimmon and balata next season to see what I get compared to my normal results with a Ti driver.

I may have cut the earlier post a bit short. Didn't want to be any more unclear than I might normally be. LOL

[tembolo1284]

Will you move up a tee box?

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1355496375' post='6067675']
Will you move up a tee box?
[/quote]

If that's at me, not necessarily. I play one course most of the time, and don't always play the same tee box every round. Plus I have a laser, so I'll be able to get a good handle on things.

If that wasn't pointed at me, I still play one course most of the time, and don't always play the same tee box every round.

[Nspiel58]

I like Bob Charles's comments about heavier clubs being more accurate. More to do with the steel shafts, I think, but who wouldn't want a beautiful persimmon driver instead of a gigantic 460 head?
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Dv5PHbUopJ8[/media]
Who could pass up playing this set?

[memphishorn]

I played nine yesterday at an old muni that I grew up on with my Mac Jack Nicklaus Muirfirld driver and it was interesting see my driver distances compared to where I used to land persimmon 30 years ago. My longtest drive with little draw was about 245 yds which is comparable to 30 years ago, except I'm now 58 not 28. Could have been the Pro V1.

[rex235]

We've played nearly all the persimmon drivers in this photo this past year-

Some are the ones recently done by Dave Wood-

The LH Wood Bros Texan, LH MacGregor Custom M09, also the LH Cleveland Classic TC-15....

...and the Macgregor Tommy Armour 653s, the Toney Penna Model 65, and the Bert Dargie....

...and the '67 MacGregor MT Tourney with the Aluminum insert....

[attachment=1454519:100_0260.JPG]

...and of course, the LH MacGregor Winged MT Eye O Matic M80 on the far left......

Thanks again to Sir Bob Charles....

[memphishorn]

rex, I've got the 67 MT set with the aluminum inserts. Was the aluminum supposed to be better or hotter than other inserts?

[Nspiel58]

Wow Rex! Though I swing right-handed, I am a lefty and thinking I'd like to try those woods.

[tembolo1284]

Just picked up this baby after doing a favor for a colleague. Money!

[attachment=1457769:mac1.jpg]

[attachment=1457771:mac2.jpg]

[attachment=1457775:mac3.jpg]

[guisician]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1355854842' post='6086543']
Just picked up this baby after doing a favor for a colleague. Money!

[/quote]

Nice; feel free to bring it to the Blue! I'll probably bag the Personals so you can check them out.

[tembolo1284]

Will bring it along with some balatas!

[freddiec]

Nice looking Mac Custom ! Maybe next season when I'm in the NYC area we can get together for a round..

[tembolo1284]

Say when sir and I'll be there!

[tembolo1284]

And don't forget to bring a Texan!

[mwmgolfx]

[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1354867207' post='6031483']
I can't see the point if you really wanted to be a classic get a dynamic gold steel wood shaft make it 44 inches and an 1996 circa Titleist titanium wood and go after it. It's not like persimmon is any better it's just a smaller head that wont go as far even on center hits. Forged Blades on the other hand are a classic club that will often outperform some cast cavity back in distance and control. Wood have no purpose other than maybe as a training club.
[/quote]

I'm not entirely convinced that persimmon woods are shorter than todays on good hits. I started with them and played them into the late 80s. We could hit them over 300 at times with no problem. My longest measured drive with one was 375 (wind aided), 360 unaided. But with the old balls, if you mishit them, they could go almost any direction. Hooking them 150 yards was no problem at all, from one fairway over the entire fairway into the next fairway.

Remember that Davis Love played one almost into 2000s and he was super long.

Key difference is mishits and ease to hit correctly. I went from the old Titleist 975D to a 400cc Cobra not for the distance (it was actually shorter) but because it was straighter on the mishits. Same reason I switched from the PGA persimmon to a TM Burner in mid-80s. Only reason I switched.

[tembolo1284]

Ya when I pork a good persimmon it goes plenty far. It's the mishits that are painful. Awfully entertaining though.

[ABgolfer2]

My Cleveland Classic persimmon 2-wood is slightly shorter than my Launcher 3-wood off the tee and it's as easy to hit off the fairway. Ball flight is a bit lower and about 10-15 yards longer than my 2-iron. On league night when we're playing the front 9, I can bag the 2-wood, leave out the 2-iron and 3-wood, and make room for another wedge. 2 wins, 1 loss, and 2 halves with the 2-wood in the bag. About the same or better than I'd do without it.

[ABgolfer2]

[quote name='myronm' timestamp='1355940431' post='6091585']
[quote name='boatrightgolf7' timestamp='1354867207' post='6031483']
I can't see the point if you really wanted to be a classic get a dynamic gold steel wood shaft make it 44 inches and an 1996 circa Titleist titanium wood and go after it. It's not like persimmon is any better it's just a smaller head that wont go as far even on center hits. Forged Blades on the other hand are a classic club that will often outperform some cast cavity back in distance and control. Wood have no purpose other than maybe as a training club.
[/quote]

I'm not entirely convinced that persimmon woods are shorter than todays on good hits. I started with them and played them into the late 80s. [b][u]We could hit them over 300 at times with no problem[/u][/b]. My longest measured drive with one was 375 (wind aided), 360 unaided. But with the old balls, if you mishit them, they could go almost any direction. Hooking them 150 yards was no problem at all, from one fairway over the entire fairway into the next fairway.

Remember that Davis Love played one almost into 2000s and he was super long.

Key difference is mishits and ease to hit correctly. I went from the old Titleist 975D to a 400cc Cobra not for the distance (it was actually shorter) but because it was straighter on the mishits. Same reason I switched from the PGA persimmon to a TM Burner in mid-80s. Only reason I switched.
[/quote]

You must have been one of the longest hitters in your area. I was above average back (dstancewise - not so much with the scoring) and I wouldn't have ever considered 300 yard drives to be "no problem". 280 was a bomb in the 80s. With current equipment if I don't get at least one 300+ driver per round it's time for a range session. Suffice to say I'm still swinging out of my shoes with the driver just like I did in the old days.

[freddiec]

I can remember playing with a young gun on a regular basis back in the 80s. He was about average distance for a tour player and often played in tour events and always a top 20 player in the National Club pro tourneys. He also won a lot of New England PGA events. He rarely would hit a persimmon over 250 to 260 and he was super pure. Anybody who was hitting it 300 had to have played course that were very very dry and offered 50 + yards of roll IMO. The longest PGA player was Freddie Couples in the mid 80s and his avg was about 275 I think... You had to have been very long.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1355948288' post='6092163']
I can remember playing with a young gun on a regular basis back in the 80s. He was about average distance for a tour player and often played in tour events and always a top 20 player in the National Club pro tourneys. He also won a lot of New England PGA events. He rarely would hit a persimmon over 250 to 260 and he was super pure. Anybody who was hitting it 300 had to have played course that were very very dry and offered 50 + yards of roll IMO. The longest PGA player was Freddie Couples in the mid 80s and his avg was about 275 I think... You had to have been very long.
[/quote]

Ya the max I can get out of mine is 270 or so...now I carry it mid 270s with modern gear. 300 yards with persimmon and balata would have been quite the nuclear shot.

[XYB34A]

I started playing golf when I was 13, so this coming summer I will be 53 and it will be my 40th year of playing. I jumped on the Taylor Made Bandwagon in 1985 with the good ole- Pittsburgh Persimmon tiny headed metal woods. Because i broke so many persimmom woods. Driver and 3 wood both. I used to average about 275 with about once every 2 or 3 rounds firing off one that got into the 300 yards range My longest drive with a persimmon was 316 yards in all those years. I almost drove a 356 yard straight away par 4 ( hit it into the false front of tthe green so to speak at the end of the fairway. It was hot and dry and it was just one lucky shot. After the Big Bertha Driver came out, I switched to Callaway and didnt play a Taylor Made again till the Super Deep came out. I played one more Persimmon Driver in that time period. Powerbilt came out with a head just a little bigger than the Big Bertha. I forget the name of it. I ordered one at 44 inch lenght with a DG X300 in it. I am a very big man. Think Lineman in the NFL big. So weight was never an issue for me. I like drivers in the D8 to E0 range back then and still play in the D5 or D6 range today.

There were shops were u could get your Persimmon woods glued back together and rewhipped back then. I was a frequent vistor.

[freddiec]

The sad thing is the sound of a persimmon driver hitting a balata ball (on the screws no less) combined with the sound you hear only for an instant of it flying through the air is gone. We used to just marvel at that great shot when somebody really smoked one off the "screws". For those who have not witnessed it , thats just a real shame. It was part of the fabric of the game. It was fun to sit on the tee during a round and really admire that shot. I played with a few guys who were pros and when that shot happened, it was admired and they would let you know they know you just pured the **&&%% out of it. Today a mis hit sounds the same as somebody connecting on the frying pan all purpose huge can sweet spot. There was no mistaken a slight mis hit back then. If you really caught on on the screws, you knew it and your playing partners would marvel at it. Today I watch people swipe at it and see it go 260 straight and walk off like they just won the Open and you know it was a mediocre shot at best.

[tembolo1284]

Sad stuff. Agree with everything you said freddiec. Similar thing in tennis today.

[ABgolfer2]

[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1355950485' post='6092343']
The sad thing is the sound of a persimmon driver hitting a balata ball (on the screws no less) combined with the sound you hear only for an instant of it flying through the air is gone. We used to just marvel at that great shot when somebody really smoked one off the "screws". For those who have not witnessed it , thats just a real shame. It was part of the fabric of the game. It was fun to sit on the tee during a round and really admire that shot. I played with a few guys who were pros and when that shot happened, it was admired and they would let you know they know you just pured the **&&%% out of it. Today a mis hit sounds the same as somebody connecting on the frying pan all purpose huge can sweet spot. There was no mistaken a slight mis hit back then. If you really caught on on the screws, you knew it and your playing partners would marvel at it. Today I watch people swipe at it and see it go 260 straight and walk off like they just won the Open and you know it was a mediocre shot at best.
[/quote]

I switched to tittanium rather late in the game (picked up a used BB Warbird in ~ 2002) and it only took a few short seasons to lose my edge. Played a few rounds in 2006 and 2007 with a Powerbilt Citation and wound balls and my power fade and slight draw now required starting the ball at the trees on one side and hoping it would stop short of the trees on the other side. Took a more than a few drives to straighten things out and had to swing at ~ 80%. So much spin.

My brother and I picked up vintage tennis raquets one summer (I got a mint condition Rod Laver autograph model) and as long as we both used the old gear the play was even. No advantage either way. Longer rallies and we ran more so that was a wake up call. "Major Championship course doctors" tricking up classic courses could easily be replaced by dialing back the tricked up equipment, but that's a topic for another thread.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='sean_miller' timestamp='1355951933' post='6092447']
[quote name='freddiec' timestamp='1355950485' post='6092343']
The sad thing is the sound of a persimmon driver hitting a balata ball (on the screws no less) combined with the sound you hear only for an instant of it flying through the air is gone. We used to just marvel at that great shot when somebody really smoked one off the "screws". For those who have not witnessed it , thats just a real shame. It was part of the fabric of the game. It was fun to sit on the tee during a round and really admire that shot. I played with a few guys who were pros and when that shot happened, it was admired and they would let you know they know you just pured the **&&%% out of it. Today a mis hit sounds the same as somebody connecting on the frying pan all purpose huge can sweet spot. There was no mistaken a slight mis hit back then. If you really caught on on the screws, you knew it and your playing partners would marvel at it. Today I watch people swipe at it and see it go 260 straight and walk off like they just won the Open and you know it was a mediocre shot at best.
[/quote]

I switched to tittanium rather late in the game (picked up a used BB Warbird in ~ 2002) and it only took a few short seasons to lose my edge. Played a few rounds in 2006 and 2007 with a Powerbilt Citation and wound balls and my power fade and slight draw now required starting the ball at the trees on one side and hoping it would stop short of the trees on the other side. Took a more than a few drives to straighten things out and had to swing at ~ 80%. So much spin.

My brother and I picked up vintage tennis raquets one summer (I got a mint condition Rod Laver autograph model) and as long as we both used the old gear the play was even. No advantage either way. Longer rallies and we ran more so that was a wake up call. "Major Championship course doctors" tricking up classic courses could easily be replaced by dialing back the tricked up equipment, but that's a topic for another thread.
[/quote]

That laver frame is pretty. Gotta be a real man to wield it. Good stuff!

[Texsport]

Former Tour winner and current Australian golf instructor Bradley Hughes often practices and plays with his Wood Bros Texan driver.

It's long been his contention that todays light and overly long golf clubs have hurt our knowledge of a correct and efficient golf swing.

The long clubs require a more upright swing and throwing the clubhead at the ball from the top----because there's not enough room to take a proper flat downswing plane.

He points out that Ben Hogan's famous 1 iron, used to hit his famous winning shot to the 72nd hole of the U S Open, was 7 degrees flat!

He points to long clubs as the reason that today's leading players can hit little more than 50% of fairways.

Here's an interview and some videos to peak some interest. he has a web site and lots of videos on YouTube.

Good stuff!

[url="http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+Bradley+Hughes&view=detail&mid=C82CA4512A74A22983EAC82CA4512A74A22983EA&first=0&qpvt=youtube+Bradley+Hughes"]http://www.bing.com/... Bradley Hughes[/url]

[url="http://www.bradleyhughesgolf.com/Page_9.html"]http://www.bradleyhughesgolf.com/Page_9.html[/url]



Texsport

[Bella Woods]

I agree with sean_miller - 280 to 285 was a big poke with persimmon and balata. 300 would happen maybe 5 times a year for the reasons that freddiec states.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1355449707' post='6065627']
[quote name='kevcarter ' timestamp='1355234980' post='6050657']
[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1355095964' post='6043445']
My persimmon experiment a few months back was about a 5%-10% loss of distance on a comparable modern wood with graphite. Persimmons were shafted with Dynamic Gold SL shafts.
[/quote]

Interesting Stage!

It would be fun to see the results using persimmon along with the old balata. Any idea what the loss would be then? Maybe closer to 20%?

KC
[/quote]

Kevin!

I didn't think it was that much distance loss. I'll have to try it again next year.

BTW, Becky told me to say Hi from her if I got a chance.
[/quote]

Thanks Man!!! Say hi back, and Merry Christmas to you both!

[rex235]

[quote name='memphishorn' timestamp='1355619155' post='6074503']
rex, I've got the 67 MT set with the aluminum inserts. Was the aluminum supposed to be better or hotter than other inserts?

[/quote]

Memphis-

Yours is a great question for Charley Penna.

Have coveted a LH MacGregor persimmon with an Al insert for over 40 years.
Our Dad (who would have been 100 on 12/17) had a RH MacGregor model, and MT irons as well-
MacGregor clubs had the Al "firing pin" in those PTs- Eye-O-Matic 60s, and a number of Toney Penna designed MacGregors models offered firing pins. Charley has shared some of his Uncle's designs in an earlier GolfWrx thread....
MacGregor offered their MT Tourney models with Aluminum inserts in 1966 with 5 screws and butterfly soleplates. With few custom exceptions, all the LH MacGregor models had sweepback soleplates.

Still have them... the 4 and 5 woods with Al inserts from our Dads' MT Tourney set.