OK, persuade me! GPS vs. Rangefinder

[chas521]

[quote name='spud3' timestamp='1365049529' post='6757503']
I had a uPro for a couple seasons, and liked it (as opposed to stepping off yardages, which REALLY takes up time...), then got tired of the prep work for adding new courses, subscription fees, etc and got a Bushnell v2.
[/quote]

A UPRO doesn't charge a yearly subscription fee. It has most of the courses already contained in the device. You may need to sync new maps now and then. AFAIK, Skycaddie is the only GPS device that charges a yearly subscription fee.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='gr8blueheronbird' timestamp='1365033243' post='6755341']
Sorry you have to wait but the guy you are waiting for is going to have the exact yardage distance whereas your distance is not exact.
[/quote]
Not so fast with "exact distance." Lasers have errors also. Just last week my partner lasered 184 to the pin, and I said you better check again because both the cart gps and my gps said the back of the green is 185. He measures again and got 178.

Furthermore this need for exact distance for any amateur is a fallacy, considering the PGA Tour accuracy is 7 yards from 100-125 yards out.

[PooN]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365077798' post='6758367']
Furthermore this need for exact distance for any amateur is a fallacy, considering the PGA Tour accuracy is 7 yards from 100-125 yards out.
[/quote]

This is not true. What you are referring to is the distance the ball is in relation to the pin after the ball has come to rest after the shot has been made. These pros have EXACT distance to front, center, back, and pin. They know where they need to carry a ball to make it land so that it stays on the portion of the green they are aiming at.

7 yards is 21 feet. Do you really think a pro (or an amateur for that matter) would be able to aim for front pins with a reading that is "give or take" 21 feet?

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

I can think of once in recent months that I've gotten a wrong laser yardage. It was off by about 10, 11, 12 yards something like that. Maybe it's because we have prisms on all the flags but my Bushnell Medalist and my buddy's Leupold are very rarely off by more than a yard or two.

OTOH, I have never played a single round with a Skycaddie or Bushnell Neo without the yardage number wandering around or changing while the GPS is sitting dead still in one place.

So yeah, no piece of equipment in the real world works perfectly every time. I'll settle for being within a couple yards of correct about 99% of the time over a device that routinely can't make up its mind. it's not real helpful to be facing a shot where accurate distance control is necessary and sit there for a couple minutes watching the number on a GPS say "139. 139. 139. 143. 138. 139. 135. 134. 133. 132. 136..." before you finally give up and just forget about getting a number for the shot.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

[quote name='PooN' timestamp='1365079652' post='6758539']
[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365077798' post='6758367']
Furthermore this need for exact distance for any amateur is a fallacy, considering the PGA Tour accuracy is 7 yards from 100-125 yards out.
[/quote]

This is not true. What you are referring to is the distance the ball is in relation to the pin after the ball has come to rest after the shot has been made. These pros have EXACT distance to front, center, back, and pin. They know where they need to carry a ball to make it land so that it stays on the portion of the green they are aiming at.

7 yards is 21 feet. Do you really think a pro (or an amateur for that matter) would be able to aim for front pins with a reading that is "give or take" 21 feet?
[/quote]

That's the problem I had with my Bushnell Neo. It was seldom wrong by more than six or eight yards (although occasionally it would give just plain old bogus nonsense readings for a hole or two when it lost its mind) but the yardage would wander around by 3, 4, 5 yards one way or the other constantly.

If the laser says it is 114 to a back pin but 120 means being over the green and shortsided (bogey or double waiting to happen) then I pick a club that I know absolutely will not travel 120 yards. For me that would a 9-iron which is my 115 club. I can hit that club give or take five yards of 115 about three out of four times and virtually never hit it more than 120. So I choke down an inch or two to be sure and fire away.

But if I'm getting a number from a GPS that says 119 to the back of the green I don't really trust it. If I sit there a while it might change several yards one way or another even though I'm not moving. The proper shot given that uncertainty is to either take a partial swing or in my case just hit a PW real hard and play for 25 feet short of the flag.

Even a double-digit handicapper ought to be confident in his short iron and wedge distances enough to benefit from KNOWING where a back or front hole location is yardage-wise. Not thinking that it's most likely with a seven-yard range but actually knowing. I'm OK if my laser says 114 when it's really 115 or 112. But I've got to know that it won't just up and say
121 or 106 for a while whenever it feels like it.

Just the other day I hit the drive of my life on one short, uphill Par 4. I was middle of the fairway hitting uphill to a flag behind a huge, deep bunker fronting the green. I could only see the top half of the flagstick, which was about seven paces past the bunker (not that I could see that from the fairway, mind). There was room behind the hole but that meant a downhill, breaking putt that you have to lag very carefully. It's a tricky green.

Laser said 100 to the flag so I pulled my 105-yard club and make a full, stock swing. The ball carried the bunker by about 10 feet and settled 15 feet directly below the hole. Without the laser I would probably have hit the same club but I'd be wondering if it was the right shot or if I was going to end up 20, 30 feet or more from the hole. It would not be a confident swing. Knowing the exact yardage told me that a) I could get it just about pin high with my 105 club and b) there was no way I was going to hit the ball past the hole with my 105 club. Confident swing breeds success. I don't have a strong enough "mental game" to swing as if I'm confident even when I have some uncertainty in mind.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='PooN' timestamp='1365079652' post='6758539']
[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365077798' post='6758367']
Furthermore this need for exact distance for any amateur is a fallacy, considering the PGA Tour accuracy is 7 yards from 100-125 yards out.
[/quote]

This is not true. What you are referring to is the distance the ball is in relation to the pin after the ball has come to rest after the shot has been made. These pros have EXACT distance to front, center, back, and pin. They know where they need to carry a ball to make it land so that it stays on the portion of the green they are aiming at.

7 yards is 21 feet. Do you really think a pro (or an amateur for that matter) would be able to aim for front pins with a reading that is "give or take" 21 feet?
[/quote]

My quotation of the stat is correct, your interpretation of what I wrote is what is wrong.

A GPS is going to typically be +/- 3 yards or better which is well within accuracy limits of 99.999% of all golfers. Sure laser is typ +/-1 yard but that level of accuracy is not needed for 99.999% of all golfers either, so your pontification that "the guy you are waiting for is going to have the exact yardage distance whereas your distance is not exact" is completely irrelevant to 99.999% of golfers.

Furthermore, both devices are going to give erroneous readings at times and the key is to know when they are suspect.

Both devices have advantages and disadvantages. The ideal scenario is to have both, but if you are only going to have 1, then you have to make a choice based on the pro's/con's of each.

[PooN]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365081713' post='6758809']
[quote name='PooN' timestamp='1365079652' post='6758539']
[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365077798' post='6758367']
Furthermore this need for exact distance for any amateur is a fallacy, considering the PGA Tour accuracy is 7 yards from 100-125 yards out.
[/quote]

This is not true. What you are referring to is the distance the ball is in relation to the pin after the ball has come to rest after the shot has been made. These pros have EXACT distance to front, center, back, and pin. They know where they need to carry a ball to make it land so that it stays on the portion of the green they are aiming at.

7 yards is 21 feet. Do you really think a pro (or an amateur for that matter) would be able to aim for front pins with a reading that is "give or take" 21 feet?
[/quote]

My quotation of the stat is correct, your interpretation of what I wrote is what is wrong.

A GPS is going to typically be +/- 3 yards or better which is well within accuracy limits of 99.999% of all golfers. Sure laser is typ +/-1 yard but that level of accuracy is not needed for 99.999% of all golfers either, so your pontification that "the guy you are waiting for is going to have the exact yardage distance whereas your distance is not exact" is completely irrelevant to 99.999% of golfers.

Furthermore, both devices are going to give erroneous readings at times and the key is to know when they are suspect.

Both devices have advantages and disadvantages. The ideal scenario is to have both, but if you are only going to have 1, then you have to make a choice based on the pro's/con's of each.
[/quote]

Then I guess I'm not sure what point you are trying to make... Your 7 yard number does not compute in any pro's (and I would argue any amateur's) rationale when looking at yardages for taking a shot.

[Pughypro]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365081713' post='6758809']
[quote name='PooN' timestamp='1365079652' post='6758539']
[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365077798' post='6758367']
Furthermore this need for exact distance for any amateur is a fallacy, considering the PGA Tour accuracy is 7 yards from 100-125 yards out.
[/quote]

This is not true. What you are referring to is the distance the ball is in relation to the pin after the ball has come to rest after the shot has been made. These pros have EXACT distance to front, center, back, and pin. They know where they need to carry a ball to make it land so that it stays on the portion of the green they are aiming at.

7 yards is 21 feet. Do you really think a pro (or an amateur for that matter) would be able to aim for front pins with a reading that is "give or take" 21 feet?
[/quote]

My quotation of the stat is correct, your interpretation of what I wrote is what is wrong.

[color=#ff0000][b]A GPS is going to typically be +/- 3 yards or better which is well within accuracy limits of 99.999% of all golfers[/b][/color]. Sure laser is typ +/-1 yard but that level of accuracy is not needed for 99.999% of all golfers either, so your pontification that "the guy you are waiting for is going to have the exact yardage distance whereas your distance is not exact" is completely irrelevant to 99.999% of golfers.

Furthermore, both devices are going to give erroneous readings at times and the key is to know when they are suspect.

Both devices have advantages and disadvantages. The ideal scenario is to have both, but if you are only going to have 1, then you have to make a choice based on the pro's/con's of each.
[/quote]

The difficulty I have with that statement is that whilst it may be ([i]technically[/i]) true, unless you have the benefit of pin charts every time you play, you are having to guess where the pin is. You may know that a pin is front, middle or back, but that will generally be all. If you are 5 yards off on your guess of where the pin is ([i]which is highly possible on big greens or shots where you can only see half the flag[/i]) then you are starting to get into the realms of being nearly 10 yards out ([i]taking into account GPS accuracy and your guess of pin position[/i]).

That's getting on for a clubs difference for some people...

I'm not saying there are not disadvantages to the laser ([i]I have mentioned some on these forums[/i]), I'm just saying the GPS is not as accurate and potentially up to a club out for yardage.

[Fourmyle of Ceres]

As I've said many time before, if you want to know the yardage to spots on the GPS's map then a GPS is definitely the proper tool. If you want to know yardage to the flag, then the laser is definitely your tool.

There is in fact no overlap whatsoever in the capabilities of the two devices. You either need a laser or you don't. You either need a GPS or you don't. Having one of them does not substitute for having the other.

Since I play 90%+ of my rounds at a course I know well, the GPS is not useful. I always know where I am relative the front/middle/backs of the green (give or take a few yards). The only thing I need to know is where today's flag is located and the exact distance to it. If I played unfamiliar courses all the time, a GPS might be an attractive option.

[myspinonit]

[quote name='Fourmyle of Ceres' timestamp='1365082916' post='6758959']
As I've said many time before, if you want to know the yardage to spots on the GPS's map then a GPS is definitely the proper tool. If you want to know yardage to the flag, then the laser is definitely your tool.

There is in fact no overlap whatsoever in the capabilities of the two devices. You either need a laser or you don't. You either need a GPS or you don't. Having one of them does not substitute for having the other.

Since I play 90%+ of my rounds at a course I know well, the GPS is not useful. I always know where I am relative the front/middle/backs of the green (give or take a few yards). The only thing I need to know is where today's flag is located and the exact distance to it. If I played unfamiliar courses all the time, a GPS might be an attractive option.
[/quote]

I need my GPS as much for fairway course management (distance to/over bunkers and hazards), especially on unfamiliar courses as I need fairly close pin distance. And certainly graphics and yardages for hazards by the green.

A laser would be useful for me for my depth perception issues i.e. judging where the pin is actually located on the green.

I'm lucky (probably jinxed it now) that I've had the original Callaway uPro for almost three years and no probs. I hope when it does go that there is an affordable hybrid out there with both features. I don't think the Bushnell hybrid has the hazards covered from the website, but if someone elightens me that it does, it might be an option for me sooner than later.

[jptruck]

Battery Life, plain and simple. I've had my laser for 3 years, and it still shows full power, no new battery. Works every time, no questions asked.

[Mathwiz]

I'm going to tell you guys something you already know.

While it is fine to discuss the merits of why "my GPS is better than your laser" & why "my laser is better than your GPS", what we all know is what really matters is not which one you use, but how well you interpret the info you receive and how skilled you are at applying that info into course management. Fourmyle gave us a very good example in post #65.

Carry on gentlemen.

And BTW jptruck............Just make sure you have that spare battery handy while on the course. I speak from experience

[spud3]

[quote name='chas521' timestamp='1365076231' post='6758267']
[quote name='spud3' timestamp='1365049529' post='6757503']
I had a uPro for a couple seasons, and liked it (as opposed to stepping off yardages, which REALLY takes up time...), then got tired of the prep work for adding new courses, subscription fees, etc and got a Bushnell v2.
[/quote]

A UPRO doesn't charge a yearly subscription fee. It has most of the courses already contained in the device. You may need to sync new maps now and then. AFAIK, Skycaddie is the only GPS device that charges a yearly subscription fee.
[/quote]
When I had my uPro, I paid for "credits" which were used to "purchase" new course data to download. Haven't had the uPro for a few years, so don't know how they work things now.

[kctay]

[quote name='spud3' timestamp='1365100501' post='6761285']
[quote name='chas521' timestamp='1365076231' post='6758267']
[quote name='spud3' timestamp='1365049529' post='6757503']
I had a uPro for a couple seasons, and liked it (as opposed to stepping off yardages, which REALLY takes up time...), then got tired of the prep work for adding new courses, subscription fees, etc and got a Bushnell v2.
[/quote]

A UPRO doesn't charge a yearly subscription fee. It has most of the courses already contained in the device. You may need to sync new maps now and then. AFAIK, Skycaddie is the only GPS device that charges a yearly subscription fee.
[/quote]
When I had my uPro, I paid for "credits" which were used to "purchase" new course data to download. Haven't had the uPro for a few years, so don't know how they work things now.
[/quote]

Upro works the same as before, it's functional if you just want the standard courses, but you pay if you want the "Pro" courses that basically show that actual fairway, green, bunkers, etc.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365084578' post='6759197']
Battery Life, plain and simple. I've had my laser for 3 years, and it still shows full power, no new battery. Works every time, no questions asked.
[/quote]

My partners laser battery died 9 holes into a round last week. We got yardages off the gps just fine.

[Pughypro]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365167865' post='6766597']
[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365084578' post='6759197']
Battery Life, plain and simple. I've had my laser for 3 years, and it still shows full power, no new battery. Works every time, no questions asked.
[/quote]

My partners laser battery died 9 holes into a round last week. We got yardages off the gps just fine.
[/quote]

Well thats it then, thread closed...

...battery died on a laser. GPS must be better then!!

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365167865' post='6766597']
[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365084578' post='6759197']
Battery Life, plain and simple. I've had my laser for 3 years, and it still shows full power, no new battery. Works every time, no questions asked.
[/quote]

My partners laser battery died 9 holes into a round last week. We got yardages off the gps just fine.
[/quote]

He put a new battery in before the round and it died in 9 holes? Unless he was using a cheapo battery from the local dollar tree, I'm calling BS.

[Mathwiz]

[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365167865' post='6766597']
[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365084578' post='6759197']
Battery Life, plain and simple. I've had my laser for 3 years, and it still shows full power, no new battery. Works every time, no questions asked.
[/quote]

[b]My partners laser battery died 9 holes into a round last week. We got yardages off the gps just fine.[/b]
[/quote]

Sounds like "your partner" needs to wise up to carrying a spare battery. Pop old one out, pop new one in, and resume play immediately. Now, if you forget to charge the GPS and it dies mid round..............you can forget about getting any usefulness out of it for the remainder of the round.

[golfdad907]

Both, off tee GPS much faster to multiple targets, to/carry bunkers, water, end of fairway, etc. laser only worth it once per hole, nice to have, but if had one, GPS. BTW, mine doesn't fluctuate in distance and I've compared with my laser on courses I really know (so adjust pin on green), GPS and laser within a yard of each other. If you shop around, you can get both for MSRP of one or the other. I've got $350 in a Nikon 550 and SG5, both bought brand new in box from legit retailers.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

[quote name='baseballfrk8998' timestamp='1365173543' post='6767435']
[quote name='Andy L' timestamp='1365167865' post='6766597']
[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365084578' post='6759197']
Battery Life, plain and simple. I've had my laser for 3 years, and it still shows full power, no new battery. Works every time, no questions asked.
[/quote]

My partners laser battery died 9 holes into a round last week. We got yardages off the gps just fine.
[/quote]

He put a new battery in before the round and it died in 9 holes? Unless he was using a cheapo battery from the local dollar tree, I'm calling BS.
[/quote]

Way to misquote me. I never said a new battery died in 9 holes. The battery died after the 9th hole that day. My point is that laser batteries die just like gps. There also is a contingency plan for either device should the battery die at an inopportune time. Just stop acting like the laser is infallible and runs on perpetual energy... That is my only point and not meant to denigrate the laser.

Heck if recharging batteries is such an issue for some of you, then I would think you wouldn't want a smartphone either.

[jptruck]

Mine is a Leupold. Won in a member guest. Had it 3 years. No battery replacement. My upro would die right after 18. I just never remember to plug it in

[Hateto3Putt]

[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365279483' post='6774885'] My upro would die right after 18. I just never remember to plug it in
[/quote]

That really is a big deal/hassle for lots of people.

My buddy was all excited about his new Skycaddie for the Myrtle Beach trip, he forgot to charge it for about half the rounds. After golf everyone would toss the clubs into the trunks and head out. After finally arriving back at the condos, not to many folks remembered to grab their gps's and charge them....

Like most owners, I stored the the GPS out of sight in the golf bag, I forgot to charge my Skycaddie more than once myself. I'll bet if you took a poll and got honest replies, you'll find it's happened to nearly everyone who owns one.

Much different handling than the smartphone that lives in your pocket and doubles as an alarm clock on trips.

As far as the power supply for the lasers.... About every 8-14 MONTHS, my Bushnell Medalist will flash "LOB" for about 3 rounds before it finally dies. I know this because I usually let it totally die before replacing it inside of 45 seconds with my $3 battery that I always have at the bottom of the "laser pocket" of my bag.

So yeah, laser power supplies are certainly not infallible, just far less involvement than dealing with a GPS.

[cslegacy]

rangfinder because gps can be way out if a hole is not mapped out right the 11th is wrong on my course. gps is quick and easy get it if you have high handicap 10+

[xmanhockey7]

Laser all day. It's much more exact on distance than GPS. Just point and shoot.

[thomaslv40]

[quote name='Hateto3Putt' timestamp='1365339250' post='6778247']
[quote name='jptruck' timestamp='1365279483' post='6774885'] My upro would die right after 18. I just never remember to plug it in
[/quote]

That really is a big deal/hassle for lots of people.

My buddy was all excited about his new Skycaddie for the Myrtle Beach trip, he forgot to charge it for about half the rounds. After golf everyone would toss the clubs into the trunks and head out. After finally arriving back at the condos, not to many folks remembered to grab their gps's and charge them....

Like most owners, I stored the the GPS out of sight in the golf bag, I forgot to charge my Skycaddie more than once myself. I'll bet if you took a poll and got honest replies, you'll find it's happened to nearly everyone who owns one.

Much different handling than the smartphone that lives in your pocket and doubles as an alarm clock on trips.

As far as the power supply for the lasers.... About every 8-14 MONTHS, my Bushnell Medalist will flash "LOB" for about 3 rounds before it finally dies. I know this because I usually let it totally die before replacing it inside of 45 seconds with my $3 battery that I always have at the bottom of the "laser pocket" of my bag.

So yeah, laser power supplies are certainly not infallible, just far less involvement than dealing with a GPS.
[/quote]

all the time and I have the old golflogix 8 the batteries only last a round to a round and a 1/2 or i forget to recharge then it dies half way through the round and I forgot to charge the backup batteries...needless to say it was a great tool but I just ordered a Leupold GX-3i to replace it

[prsgtrman]

ive had both, just renewed my skycaddie for 3 yrs. couldnt imagine playing without it. i had a leupold gx4. was decent but i play on alot of hilly courses and many times i would have to walk to spot just to be able to aim to the flag.

[DrivesFourShow]

I've used GPS for years and just bought a rangefinder. Your wallet won't like to hear this but running both of them together worked great.

[ladahl]

[quote name='DrivesFourShow' timestamp='1366454604' post='6882343']
I've used GPS for years and just bought a rangefinder. Your wallet won't like to hear this but running both of them together worked great.
[/quote]

I have my iphone (GolfLogix) running and maybe look at it when I have a blind approach, etc, but use my Z6 rangefinder for every other shot

If I could only choose one. Rangefinder

[DrivesFourShow]

[quote name='ladahl' timestamp='1366454774' post='6882345']
[quote name='DrivesFourShow' timestamp='1366454604' post='6882343']
I've used GPS for years and just bought a rangefinder. Your wallet won't like to hear this but running both of them together worked great.
[/quote]

I have my iphone (GolfLogix) running and maybe look at it when I have a blind approach, etc, but use my Z6 rangefinder for every other shot

If I could only choose one. Rangefinder
[/quote]

Where I found using both useful was on the greens as it told me front, back and pin. Wouldn't have been able to work this out with just a rangefinder.

[Eastflava0]

My two cents...

I have used GPS all my life, mainly cause rangerfinders were so expensive. But two weeks ago I dished out for a Leupold GX-3i.

Before even purchasing a rangefinder, I suggest going to a store where you can test them out (Golfsmith has a setup like Best Buy cameras) and get a feel for how they work. Not all rangefinders are created equal.

After reading some comments on here, I was concerned about speed of play, shaky hands, and not being able to get distances. But man was that all wrong. I have no problem with speed of play, point and shoot is so fast, even with cart path only. I saw I was around 160 yards out, so I took 2-3 clubs everytime, and then was able to point right at the flag and get the exact distance, down to the tenth decimal point.

On a par 5, I was looking to layup, I was able to point at different hazards and landing spots to see how far they were, this is definitely helped the most because I knew the exact club to use on a layup immediately.

Also helped pointing at carts to see if we can hit up or not...

It fits in my pocket and does not get in the way, probably the equivalent of having two to three golf balls.

Overall the laser rangefinder is one of the best golf products I have purchased in a long long time.... well worth the $, hopefully it lasts!