Chamblee/Tiger Woods controversy (merged)

[kellygreen]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382559837' post='8047449']
This should be fun...
[/quote]

Only if you want to learn something.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty dry and dull.

[legitimategolf]

Can't believe there's so much discussion over the latest crazy thing Brandel has said. You can't let this guy dictate the discussion. He is evil. He is just looking for attention and ratings.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1382575871' post='8048781']
I was disappointed that BC issued an apology. Not because I necessarily agree with him. But he should stand by what he says.

As far as TW and his cheating on his wife. Please get over it. A lot of men have done the same thing. One would think that some of you are perfect. Well you're not.

As far as TW cheating in golf? I don't know. The only two calls I question are the moving of the boulder, and the shot he hit on the roof of the club house at Firestone...and got a free drop: BUT, the rules officials were the ones who said it was okay, so it's on them.

It's not like he took a foot wedge and kicked his ball out from behind a tree back into the fairway, or "found" a lost ball. I think to call him a "cheater" is taking a bit too far.

Those of you that complain that his every move on the course is under the eye of a camera...well what do you expect? He's one of the greatest golfers of all time. Of course the cameras will be following him.

[i][b]That all said, I think he should have withdrawn from the Masters. That would have been a very classy thing to do.[/b][/i]
[/quote]

Perhaps in your eyes..and in the eyes of a few other principled people. But it would have just been DIFFERENT grist for the mill by the haters.

[i]"Rationalizations are the ad hoc smoke that billows up from emotional fires. You do not treat rationaizations as if they were reasoned, principled arguments, just like you do not put out a fire by standing around waving at the smoke. You put out a fire by putting out the fire. If that is not enough, and the fires keep coming back, then you put out the arsonist."[/i]

[i]----Drew Westen. [/i]

What I find intresting though, is how often Tiger is asked to step in and rescue other people in the golf world from their own bad decisions and obnoxious comments.

Interesting, indeed.

[square]

Or, Chamblee respects the game of golf and is standing up for it.

[quote name='exquisitechip' timestamp='1382652550' post='8053235']
Can't believe there's so much discussion over the latest crazy thing Brandel has said. You can't let this guy dictate the discussion. He is evil. He is just looking for attention and ratings.
[/quote]

[Pat_Irish]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652902' post='8053275']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1382575871' post='8048781']
I was disappointed that BC issued an apology. Not because I necessarily agree with him. But he should stand by what he says.

As far as TW and his cheating on his wife. Please get over it. A lot of men have done the same thing. One would think that some of you are perfect. Well you're not.

As far as TW cheating in golf? I don't know. The only two calls I question are the moving of the boulder, and the shot he hit on the roof of the club house at Firestone...and got a free drop: BUT, the rules officials were the ones who said it was okay, so it's on them.

It's not like he took a foot wedge and kicked his ball out from behind a tree back into the fairway, or "found" a lost ball. I think to call him a "cheater" is taking a bit too far.

Those of you that complain that his every move on the course is under the eye of a camera...well what do you expect? He's one of the greatest golfers of all time. Of course the cameras will be following him.

[i][b]That all said, I think he should have withdrawn from the Masters. That would have been a very classy thing to do.[/b][/i]
[/quote]

Perhaps in your eyes..and in the eyes of a few other principled people. But it would have just been DIFFERENT grist for the mill by the haters.

[i]"Rationalizations are the ad hoc smoke that billows up from emotional fires. You do not treat rationaizations as if they were reasoned, principled arguments, just like you do not put out a fire by standing around waving at the smoke. You put out a fire by putting out the fire. If that is not enough, and the fires keep coming back, then you put out the arsonist."[/i]

[i]----Drew Westen. [/i]

What I find intresting though, is how often Tiger is asked to step in and rescue other people in the golf world from their own bad decisions and obnoxious comments.

Interesting, indeed.
[/quote]
And at firestone the ball was never found ?? hmmmmmm

[kellygreen]

[quote name='SurfinTurf' timestamp='1382594225' post='8049845']
What amuses me is the posters, some of whom I respect, that espouse the notion that TW has been good for the game in terms of integrity.

TW broke records. He inspired a generation to bump it up a notch. He made industry guys a bunch of cash. Golf went Walmart and NBA. Frankly I could not care less. Let me stock up on Pro V1s and then burn the whole thing down.

Some people actually enjoy the game for it's innate character revealing, and thus character refining qualities. All whilst fecking about with your chums. That's really all the game needs to be. I don't piss and moan and kick and cheat and drop down on my knees and pout. Neither does anyone I play with. Tiger does.

The circus will roll on and most will recognize the clown. Chamblee has been a pretty good Ringmaster. Looks like he will now perform as a Unich.
[/quote]

I think you need to go back and look at some of the old films of Arnold Palmer.

I REALLY hate double-standards.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Body_Visions' timestamp='1382637799' post='8051929']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382558458' post='8047297']
Really?

I wasn't aware that Tiger had beaten, robbed, killed or repeated swindled people out of their money without remorse. Are you aware of something the rest of aren't...or do you not know what a sociopath is?

Or do you consider [i]every[/i] man who cheats on his wife with more than one woman to be a sociopath?

[color=#ff0000][size=3][size=5]Woods,[/size][/size][/color][b] Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod and Armstrong all took PEDs...and lied about doing it.[/b]

Again, are you aware of something that the rest of the world is not?
[/quote]

I fixed that one for you. I'm sure it was an oversight.
[/quote]

You fixed nothing.

Evidence, please?

Or do you just plain to hide behind internet anoymity and our very lax libel laws where public figures are concerned?

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1382651713' post='8053159']
Ever stood on a tee box and a playing partner put a ball straight into the water , crossing the hazard line directly in front of the tee box, 50 yards in front of you ?
Then he drove his golf cart up up 250 yards and said "my ball hooked onto the water here", and took his drop. This is known as cheating. This is what Tiger did at TPC. Hope this helps.

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382648771' post='8052927']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382647013' post='8052759']
37 pages all because Tiger cheated at TPC . That event was the first clear, unquestionable evidence of Tiger cheating. Years ago moving the boulder, or this year's Masters drop, or the oscillating ball etc... were all open to debate whether Tiger cheated . TPC was different, which I expect is the reason Chamblee decided to write about it.
[/quote]

Yeah because no one has ever questioned your opinion on that one. Tiger did not cheat at TPC. That's a fact as confirmed by anyone who knows the rules you care to ask and you call it unquestionable? Fascinating. Unless you have a completely different definition of the word "unquestionable" or perhaps "cheating".
[/quote]
[/quote]

I guess I need to add "straight" and "250 yards" to the list of words/phrases that mean different things to you and me. That's notwithstanding the fact that it wasn't Tiger that said where it crossed. That was Casey Wittenberg, who told Tiger to drop further up than Tiger thought. Tiger had to do that because it's the rules. If he hadn't, you would have a case to call him a cheat.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382638901' post='8052021']
[quote name='Body_Visions' timestamp='1382634774' post='8051665']
[b]Any you guys roll by believing he could/will do no wrong no matter what.[/b]

And even if I said he had confirmed himself as a cheater, at least that would mean the he owned up to it, which is a start.
[/quote]
Wrong on so many levels. If you want to find out what I really think about Woods, please read the many posts about him that I have contributed.
Synopsis:
He's the greatest golfer I've ever seen. So I watch him whenever I can.
He blew his marriage through infedlity. Yawn. I couldn't put together a 4some of guys who haven't found themselves in that nasty boat.
He is very private and guards that privacy with a passion that borders on arrogance.
He doesn't know as much about the rules as he should. He needs help with that. I do not believe he is a cheater, though.
His golf and his private life are totally separate entities. I have no business in the latter, but the cameras allow me admittance to the former.
I don't judge people by their mistakes in life. It's not my place to do so. I do, however, measure ensuing respect for a person by the way he handles himself after his mistakes. And I keep this to myself.
He has a temper. So do I. So do a great many other golfers, including off camera pros, who refuse to aknowledge it in themselves, or really don't see it as an issue.
He curses after a bad shot. If it offends some parents out there, why not lobby for a 5 sec delay on anything Woods. Better, why don't the networks ( who certainly should understand the sensitivity level ), just go do it? Perhaps It is an issue of the vocal few, rather than the vocal majority.
No celebrity or athlete should be used as a modern role model for our kids. I don't understand this new modern "role model". When I was a kid, we looked up to those people for the game they played, not for the life they led away from it. Our parents were responsible for bringing us up and they did. Apparently, today we need role models to do that for us. You get what you give, I guess. No athlete or celebrity should be used as a role model. More often than not, they will disappoint. A parent is the best role model his/her children can have. To blame or suddenly despise a failed role model who is not the parent, is wrong.
Woods is neither the monster haters make him out to be, nor the saint that lovers seem to think he is. He is just a guy who finds himself at centre stage under Golf's largest spotlight. And sometimes he misses a step and sometimes he forgets to bow. And if that is all that people see, then they are missing one of the best acts I've ever seen in my lifetime.
I've left a lot out.....But this is a beginning on how I roll when it comes to Tiger Woods.

If this is off topic I apologize.
[/quote]

It not "off-point". Your post IS the point, that a great many people have lost sight of....or (for other reasons I won't get into) stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.

Look closely enough, and ALL idols have feet of clay. Look closely enough [i]NOTHING[/i] and [i]NO ONE [/i]is perfect. Just lots of people trying to either decieve themselves, others...or trying to call attention away from their own imperfections by harping on those of others.

I'm always amazed by those who act as though they are guiltless enough to have stoned the Adulteress themselves.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382640088' post='8052129']
[quote name='Body_Visions' timestamp='1382637799' post='8051929']
I fixed that one for you. I'm sure it was an oversight.
[/quote]
It amuses me that some people, in order to further their ill feelings for a person, will just flat out make sh#t up and try to present it to the world as the truth. Kinda like you just did.
[/quote]

Not everyone lives their live in a world defined by principle, fact and Reason.

[tembolo1284]

My my. What a thread.This is our species. Embrace it.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='redonsundays' timestamp='1382642557' post='8052331']
In terms of the Masters ruling:

I respect Gary Player as a past champion and person and he summed it up very well...

[i][color=#000000][size=3]I've been asked many times about Tiger Woods since he was assessed the penalty Saturday morning, and there's only one thing I have to say: [b]It doesn't matter what I think. And it doesn't matter what you think, or what the players think, or what the media thinks. The only opinion that matters has already been voiced. [/b]It added two strokes to his score and sent him out to play the weekend.[/size][/color][/i]

[color=#000000][size=3][i]One aspect of Tiger's penalty strikes me as unfair: the role of television. The violation was phoned in by a viewer at home, and that's a problem. I don't think people should be able to phone in rules advice any more than a fan should be able to issue a red card from the stands of a soccer match. Can you call into a basketball game to say someone was out of bounds? That sounds ridiculous. You defer to the local authorities; that's how sport has always worked.[/i][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3][i]With golf, it's even more unfair, since so few players are shown on the telecast. If, say, 10 percent of the field is being scrutinized by the public, then that's not a level playing field. Players are very honest in competition, and officials are very honest in enforcing the rules -- they do a wonderful job. Someone phoning in "help" from home only makes the game less equitable.[/i][/size][/color]
[/quote]

Gee.

I guess Gary Player has the same callous disregard for the Rules of the Game that I do.

Who'd have imagined....

[xabia]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382653524' post='8053327']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382651713' post='8053159']
Ever stood on a tee box and a playing partner put a ball straight into the water , crossing the hazard line directly in front of the tee box, 50 yards in front of you ?
Then he drove his golf cart up up 250 yards and said "my ball hooked onto the water here", and took his drop. This is known as cheating. This is what Tiger did at TPC. Hope this helps.

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382648771' post='8052927']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382647013' post='8052759']
37 pages all because Tiger cheated at TPC . That event was the first clear, unquestionable evidence of Tiger cheating. Years ago moving the boulder, or this year's Masters drop, or the oscillating ball etc... were all open to debate whether Tiger cheated . TPC was different, which I expect is the reason Chamblee decided to write about it.
[/quote]

Yeah because no one has ever questioned your opinion on that one. Tiger did not cheat at TPC. That's a fact as confirmed by anyone who knows the rules you care to ask and you call it unquestionable? Fascinating. Unless you have a completely different definition of the word "unquestionable" or perhaps "cheating".
[/quote]
[/quote]

I guess I need to add "straight" and "250 yards" to the list of words/phrases that mean different things to you and me. That's notwithstanding the fact that it wasn't Tiger that said where it crossed. That was Casey Wittenberg, who told Tiger to drop further up than Tiger thought. Tiger had to do that because it's the rules. If he hadn't, you would have a case to call him a cheat.
[/quote]

I can't understand why he won't let this go. Tiger didn't walk to that spot and then cajole Casey into the drop (as some of you really seem to think happened), he was going to drop further back but Casey told him where it crossed. This has been analyzed to death and all parties have confirmed it yet it is apparently not good enough. It is legendary in its stubbornness

[hogans71]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652255' post='8053221']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382559837' post='8047449']
This should be fun...
[/quote]

Only if you want to learn something.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty dry and dull.
[/quote]

Oh kg, always there to spoil the good times...

Two words- LIGHTEN UP.

[xabia]

I should add I can't believe the world wont let a legal drop as defined by rules of golf go and keep mentioning it as if were actually an infraction!!!!

It keeps getting brought up and analyzed even after it has been deemed perfectly legal.. literally there is no other athlete or figure in the world other than TW who would have to deal with such a ridiculous situation.

[tembolo1284]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382654278' post='8053405']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652255' post='8053221']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382559837' post='8047449']
This should be fun...
[/quote]

Only if you want to learn something.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty dry and dull.
[/quote]

Oh kg, always there to spoil the good times...

Two words- LIGHTEN UP.
[/quote]

I believe he's joking sir!

[kellygreen]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1382651713' post='8053159']
Ever stood on a tee box and a playing partner put a ball straight into the water , crossing the hazard line directly in front of the tee box, 50 yards in front of you ?
Then he drove his golf cart up up 250 yards and said "my ball hooked onto the water here", and took his drop. This is known as cheating. This is what Tiger did at TPC. Hope this helps.

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382648771' post='8052927']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382647013' post='8052759']
37 pages all because Tiger cheated at TPC . That event was the first clear, unquestionable evidence of Tiger cheating. Years ago moving the boulder, or this year's Masters drop, or the oscillating ball etc... were all open to debate whether Tiger cheated . TPC was different, which I expect is the reason Chamblee decided to write about it.
[/quote]

Yeah because no one has ever questioned your opinion on that one. Tiger did not cheat at TPC. That's a fact as confirmed by anyone who knows the rules you care to ask and you call it unquestionable? Fascinating. Unless you have a completely different definition of the word "unquestionable" or perhaps "cheating".
[/quote]
[/quote]

Unfortunately, everyone who was actually on the tee that day disagrees with you.

But then, I guess, Reality is whatever [i]YOU [/i]say it is.

...regardless of what the actual eyewitnesses had to say.

[Pat_Irish]

[quote name='xabia' timestamp='1382654369' post='8053431']
I should add I can't believe the world wont let a legal drop as defined by rules of golf go and keep mentioning it as if were actually an infraction!!!!

It keeps getting brought up and analyzed even after it has been deemed perfectly legal.. literally there is no other athlete or figure in the world other than TW who would have to deal with such a ridiculous situation.
[/quote]

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382654658' post='8053463']
[quote name='xabia' timestamp='1382654369' post='8053431']
I should add I can't believe the world wont let a legal drop as defined by rules of golf go and keep mentioning it as if were actually an infraction!!!!

It keeps getting brought up and analyzed even after it has been deemed perfectly legal.. literally there is no other athlete or figure in the world other than TW who would have to deal with such a ridiculous situation.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Of course, you don't get it.

Oh and,

SAUSAGE! Just the mention seems to energize some threads.

[Pat_Irish]

[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1382654934' post='8053485']
[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382654658' post='8053463']
[quote name='xabia' timestamp='1382654369' post='8053431']
I should add I can't believe the world wont let a legal drop as defined by rules of golf go and keep mentioning it as if were actually an infraction!!!!

It keeps getting brought up and analyzed even after it has been deemed perfectly legal.. literally there is no other athlete or figure in the world other than TW who would have to deal with such a ridiculous situation.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Of course, you don't get it.

Oh and,

SAUSAGE! Just the mention seems to energize some threads.
[/quote]
actually i assume he is joking

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1382654934' post='8053485']
[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382654658' post='8053463']
[quote name='xabia' timestamp='1382654369' post='8053431']
I should add I can't believe the world wont let a legal drop as defined by rules of golf go and keep mentioning it as if were actually an infraction!!!!

It keeps getting brought up and analyzed even after it has been deemed perfectly legal.. literally there is no other athlete or figure in the world other than TW who would have to deal with such a ridiculous situation.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Of course, you don't get it.

Oh and,

SAUSAGE! Just the mention seems to energize some threads.
[/quote]

tembolo is already here

[nbg352]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382653869' post='8053353']
[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382638901' post='8052021']
[quote name='Body_Visions' timestamp='1382634774' post='8051665']
[b]Any you guys roll by believing he could/will do no wrong no matter what.[/b]

And even if I said he had confirmed himself as a cheater, at least that would mean the he owned up to it, which is a start.
[/quote]
Wrong on so many levels. If you want to find out what I really think about Woods, please read the many posts about him that I have contributed.
Synopsis:
He's the greatest golfer I've ever seen. So I watch him whenever I can.
He blew his marriage through infedlity. Yawn. I couldn't put together a 4some of guys who haven't found themselves in that nasty boat.
He is very private and guards that privacy with a passion that borders on arrogance.
He doesn't know as much about the rules as he should. He needs help with that. I do not believe he is a cheater, though.
His golf and his private life are totally separate entities. I have no business in the latter, but the cameras allow me admittance to the former.
I don't judge people by their mistakes in life. It's not my place to do so. I do, however, measure ensuing respect for a person by the way he handles himself after his mistakes. And I keep this to myself.
He has a temper. So do I. So do a great many other golfers, including off camera pros, who refuse to aknowledge it in themselves, or really don't see it as an issue.
He curses after a bad shot. If it offends some parents out there, why not lobby for a 5 sec delay on anything Woods. Better, why don't the networks ( who certainly should understand the sensitivity level ), just go do it? Perhaps It is an issue of the vocal few, rather than the vocal majority.
No celebrity or athlete should be used as a modern role model for our kids. I don't understand this new modern "role model". When I was a kid, we looked up to those people for the game they played, not for the life they led away from it. Our parents were responsible for bringing us up and they did. Apparently, today we need role models to do that for us. You get what you give, I guess. No athlete or celebrity should be used as a role model. More often than not, they will disappoint. A parent is the best role model his/her children can have. To blame or suddenly despise a failed role model who is not the parent, is wrong.
Woods is neither the monster haters make him out to be, nor the saint that lovers seem to think he is. He is just a guy who finds himself at centre stage under Golf's largest spotlight. And sometimes he misses a step and sometimes he forgets to bow. And if that is all that people see, then they are missing one of the best acts I've ever seen in my lifetime.
I've left a lot out.....But this is a beginning on how I roll when it comes to Tiger Woods.

If this is off topic I apologize.
[/quote]

It not "off-point". Your post IS the point, that a great many people have lost sight of....or (for other reasons I won't get into) stubbornly refuse to acknowledge.

Look closely enough, and ALL idols have feet of clay. Look closely enough [i]NOTHING[/i] and [i]NO ONE [/i]is perfect. Just lots of people trying to either decieve themselves, others...or trying to call attention away from their own imperfections by harping on those of others.

I'm always amazed by those who act as though they are guiltless enough to have stoned the Adulteress themselves.
[/quote]
I hear you on ALL counts.....

[square]

I was the biggest Tiger fan you ever saw, since his junior golf days. But TPC ended it for me.
I expect others who respect the game, and the Rules of Golf, feel the same way.

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382648428' post='8052905']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382647013' post='8052759']
37 pages all because [b]Tiger cheated at TPC [/b]. That event was the first clear, unquestionable evidence of Tiger cheating. Years ago moving the boulder, or this year's Masters drop, or the oscillating ball etc... were all open to debate whether Tiger cheated . TPC was different, which I expect is the reason Chamblee decided to write about it.
[/quote]
Too many people who were there as witnesses have flat out refuted this claim. It has been discussed ad nauseum. But I digress.....
The only ones who think the drop was bad are folks who feel about Woods the way you do.
[/quote]

[Ty_Webb]

Well then I have some good news! You can go back to being a Tiger fan because he didn't cheat!

[quote name='square' timestamp='1382655247' post='8053519']
I was the biggest Tiger fan you ever saw, since his junior golf days. But TPC ended it for me.
I expect others who respect the game, and the Rules of Golf, feel the same way.

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382648428' post='8052905']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382647013' post='8052759']
37 pages all because [b]Tiger cheated at TPC [/b]. That event was the first clear, unquestionable evidence of Tiger cheating. Years ago moving the boulder, or this year's Masters drop, or the oscillating ball etc... were all open to debate whether Tiger cheated . TPC was different, which I expect is the reason Chamblee decided to write about it.
[/quote]
Too many people who were there as witnesses have flat out refuted this claim. It has been discussed ad nauseum. But I digress.....
The only ones who think the drop was bad are folks who feel about Woods the way you do.
[/quote]
[/quote]

[square]

Gary Player was a well known cheater. Tom Watson once busted him for dropping a ball in the rough at the British Open.

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382654185' post='8053393']
[quote name='redonsundays' timestamp='1382642557' post='8052331']
In terms of the Masters ruling:

I respect Gary Player as a past champion and person and he summed it up very well...

[i][color=#000000][size=3]I've been asked many times about Tiger Woods since he was assessed the penalty Saturday morning, and there's only one thing I have to say: [b]It doesn't matter what I think. And it doesn't matter what you think, or what the players think, or what the media thinks. The only opinion that matters has already been voiced. [/b]It added two strokes to his score and sent him out to play the weekend.[/size][/color][/i]

[color=#000000][size=3][i]One aspect of Tiger's penalty strikes me as unfair: the role of television. The violation was phoned in by a viewer at home, and that's a problem. I don't think people should be able to phone in rules advice any more than a fan should be able to issue a red card from the stands of a soccer match. Can you call into a basketball game to say someone was out of bounds? That sounds ridiculous. You defer to the local authorities; that's how sport has always worked.[/i][/size][/color]
[color=#000000][size=3][i]With golf, it's even more unfair, since so few players are shown on the telecast. If, say, 10 percent of the field is being scrutinized by the public, then that's not a level playing field. Players are very honest in competition, and officials are very honest in enforcing the rules -- they do a wonderful job. Someone phoning in "help" from home only makes the game less equitable.[/i][/size][/color]
[/quote]

Gee.

I guess Gary Player has the same callous disregard for the Rules of the Game that I do.

Who'd have imagined....
[/quote]

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382652193' post='8053219']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382651035' post='8053095']
[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382561954' post='8047609']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382558134' post='8047269']
[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/former-usga-rules-official-explains-woods-ruling/"]http://www.golfchann...s-woods-ruling/[/url]

[i][b]Prior to Tiger finishing his round and signing his scorecard, the Committee looked at the footage and consulted with officials who were on the hole while the drop occurred. [u]They determined that the ball had been dropped “near enough” to where he had last played, and in their eyes there was no breach of Rule 20-7. They chose neither to discuss the incident with Tiger nor to keep him from signing his scorecard.[/u][/b] But during his post-round huddle with the media, when asked about his fifth shot on the 15th hole, Tiger shared the following:[/i]

[i]“Well, I went down to the drop area, that wasn't going to be a good spot, because obviously it's into the grain, it's really grainy there. And it was a little bit wet. So it was muddy and not a good spot to drop. [b]So I went back to where I played it from, but I went two yards further back and I took, tried to take two yards off the shot of what I felt I hit.[/b] And that should land me short of the flag and not have it either hit the flag or skip over the back. I felt that that was going to be the right decision to take off four right there. And I did. It worked out perfectly.”[/i]

[i][b]When this information was brought to the Committee’s attention late Friday night, it changed their opinion about him dropping the ball “near enough” and their decision not to penalize him. [/b]This statement indicated that Tiger had not attempted to drop the ball “as nearly as possible” to the spot where he had last played. He stated he had purposely dropped the ball 2 yards behind that point, which ultimately meant he had played from a wrong place. [b]Although Tiger did say he intended to drop his ball 2 yards behind the previous spot, it is important to note that this statement does not mean that the player intended to drop the ball in a wrong place and play it from there or to intentionally break a Rule. It merely clarified that he had not abided by Rule 26-1a by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played.[/b][/i]

[i][b]The Committee asked Tiger to meet with them Saturday, and after Tiger confirmed his statements from the previous day, the Committee concluded that he had played from a wrong place and that he must incur a penalty of two strokes[/b]. However, Rule 6-6d (Wrong Score for Hole) explains the competitor is responsible for the correctness of the score recorded for each hole on his score card. If he returns a score for any hole lower than actually taken, he is disqualified.[/i]
[i]In many similar circumstances, a player would have been disqualified for a breach of Rule 6-6d. A player is not absolved from penalty under this Rule for failure to include a penalty that he did not know he had incurred. However, [u][b]in this case, the Committee believed that they had done the player an injustice by not discussing the possible infraction of Rule 20-7 with him before he signed his scorecard and thus used Rule 33-7 to correct the situation.[/b][/u][/i]
[/quote]

Kelly

The committee did not review the drop, Mark Russell is on record saying that he did not see the tape as he was on the course So that was a lie, they then compounded the problem by using 33-7, which the USGA says was not applicable in this case, There is a link earlier from the USGA,s statement, which if you read it says 2 things, (1) 33-7 was not applicable and (2) they committee were right to use 33-7, The only facts from the statement above is what Woods actually done and what he said, Woods to his credit told the truth, ANGC did not and by ANGC I mean Fred Ridley, It is easy to believe that Ridely was a one man show, He made the decisions alone and of course thought nothing would ever come of it, Tiger talked, Edger talked and CBS produced the tape . In this instances you don't have to defend Woods, They done him and golf a diservice by not making the proper decision according to the rules of golf and by then covering it up. Woods may have got $$ as prize money, but it left a bad taste in the golfing world
[/quote]

I don't do conspiracy theories.

But even if this one is true, then the issue is with Augusta National and The Masters....not Woods.
[/quote]
Kelly. do you think everyone has an issue with Woods, everytime they debate something, you appear to spend all your time defending him I have actually stated that I don't believe that in this particular case Woods was to blame for the mess ( his only part was a wrong drop ) what came after the decision was made was in reality outside his control , Yet it appears the only thing you want to hear is Woods is "god" and anything short of that is unacceptable . I can assure you if this was Rory instead of Tiger my views would not change . Can we really have a situtation where nobody gets dsq for breaking the rules so we can have "equity"
[/quote]

This is why I post.

I am quite critical of Woods, when the situation calls for it...and I've made it abundantly clear that he should consider himself lucky that I wasn't his brother-in-law.

What I have a problem with---in threads like this---are double-standards and Trojan Horses. Ways in which OTHER forms of socially-unacceptable animosity try to clothe themselves in a more socially acceptable guise.

[i][b]I don't consider you in either one of those categories...but I do think you are rushing to judgement based on some very flimsy evidence against the Masters Rules Committee.[/b][/i] All we know for sure is that they scr*w*d-the-pooch on this one, and they waived the DQ because they believe that their mishandling of the situation created a situation where the waving of the DQ was necessary for equity. Since the RC has an obligation to inform or discuss with the player potential rules violations. (An obligation you've made clear you do not agree with, but is still common practice on tour.)

[kellygreen]

[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382653106' post='8053295']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652902' post='8053275']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1382575871' post='8048781']
I was disappointed that BC issued an apology. Not because I necessarily agree with him. But he should stand by what he says.

As far as TW and his cheating on his wife. Please get over it. A lot of men have done the same thing. One would think that some of you are perfect. Well you're not.

As far as TW cheating in golf? I don't know. The only two calls I question are the moving of the boulder, and the shot he hit on the roof of the club house at Firestone...and got a free drop: BUT, the rules officials were the ones who said it was okay, so it's on them.

It's not like he took a foot wedge and kicked his ball out from behind a tree back into the fairway, or "found" a lost ball. I think to call him a "cheater" is taking a bit too far.

Those of you that complain that his every move on the course is under the eye of a camera...well what do you expect? He's one of the greatest golfers of all time. Of course the cameras will be following him.

[i][b]That all said, I think he should have withdrawn from the Masters. That would have been a very classy thing to do.[/b][/i]
[/quote]

Perhaps in your eyes..and in the eyes of a few other principled people. But it would have just been DIFFERENT grist for the mill by the haters.

[i]"Rationalizations are the ad hoc smoke that billows up from emotional fires. You do not treat rationaizations as if they were reasoned, principled arguments, just like you do not put out a fire by standing around waving at the smoke. You put out a fire by putting out the fire. If that is not enough, and the fires keep coming back, then you put out the arsonist."[/i]

[i]----Drew Westen. [/i]

What I find intresting though, is how often Tiger is asked to step in and rescue other people in the golf world from their own bad decisions and obnoxious comments.

Interesting, indeed.
[/quote]
And at firestone the ball was never found ?? hmmmmmm
[/quote]

...and Els got a very generous drop in his 1994 US Open win.

Yet, no one's talking about that one years later....

[nbg352]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382654278' post='8053405']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652255' post='8053221']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382559837' post='8047449']
This should be fun...
[/quote]

Only if you want to learn something.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty dry and dull.
[/quote]

Oh kg, always there to spoil the good times...

Two words- LIGHTEN UP.
[/quote]
You guys are like two female cats, strangers to each other, thrown into a room together for the very first time.
It's very entertaining, yet scary.
( I know, I know.....I've had a moment or 10 on here, too....)

[kellygreen]

[quote name='tembolo1284' timestamp='1382654466' post='8053439']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382654278' post='8053405']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652255' post='8053221']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382559837' post='8047449']
This should be fun...
[/quote]

Only if you want to learn something.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty dry and dull.
[/quote]

Oh kg, always there to spoil the good times...

Two words- LIGHTEN UP.
[/quote]

I believe he's joking sir!
[/quote]

Dude...

...you are totally stepping all over my IRONY on this one.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382655789' post='8053561']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382654278' post='8053405']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382652255' post='8053221']
[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382559837' post='8047449']
This should be fun...
[/quote]

Only if you want to learn something.

Otherwise, it's going to be pretty dry and dull.
[/quote]

Oh kg, always there to spoil the good times...

Two words- LIGHTEN UP.
[/quote]
You guys are like two female cats, strangers to each other, thrown into a room together for the very first time.
It's very entertaining, yet scary.
( I know, I know.....I've had a moment or 10 on here, too....)
[/quote]

Relax.

The animosity only goes one way.

I just push his buttons now for the entertainment value.