Chamblee/Tiger Woods controversy (merged)

[nbg352]

[quote name='golfer' timestamp='1382660392' post='8053999']
To whom are you referring?
[/quote]
To whom is your question directed?

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382655141' post='8053503']
[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1382654934' post='8053485']
[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382654658' post='8053463']
[quote name='xabia' timestamp='1382654369' post='8053431']
I should add I can't believe the world wont let a legal drop as defined by rules of golf go and keep mentioning it as if were actually an infraction!!!!

It keeps getting brought up and analyzed even after it has been deemed perfectly legal.. literally there is no other athlete or figure in the world other than TW who would have to deal with such a ridiculous situation.
[/quote]

[/quote]

Of course, you don't get it.

Oh and,

SAUSAGE! Just the mention seems to energize some threads.
[/quote]

tembolo is already here
[/quote]

Hence the reference.

[bscinstnct]

Tiger is golf.

Nobody has anything to say about golf

Unless they are talking about

Tiger Woods

[golfer]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382661485' post='8054103']

To whom is your question directed?
[/quote]

Read this page for the answer. Here's a hint, the answer isn't you.

Hopefully, we can get back to the original topic.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382660831' post='8054047']


Oh you and your witty repartee...

Wild swing and a miss though. Thought I'd throw in a bit of baseball related humor as we all know about your success on the diamond as well...

I'm going to assume this will be the end of our jovial give and take as you NEVER yearn to get the last word in.

Never...
[/quote]

Yep.

I don't push your buttons in the least. Not at all.

[i]Yet, you always manage to find me wherever I'm posting.[/i]

Curiouser and curiouser.

[nbg352]

[quote name='golfer' timestamp='1382661715' post='8054127']


Read this page for the answer. Here's a hint, the answer isn't you.

Hopefully, we can get back to the original topic.
[/quote]
Well, you've certainly made a rather rude and obnoxious entrance into this thread, haven't you?
I'd suggest that if YOU read the thread, especially where you inserted your question, you'd have noticed that I was part of the exchange.
I hope future dealings with you will be more pleasant for us both, don't you?
Please, if you notice any of my grammatical errors, don't correct. I like 'em messy looking, now and again.

[hogans71]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382661767' post='8054135']
Yep.

I don't push your buttons in the least. Not at all.

[i]Yet, you always manage to find me wherever I'm posting.[/i]

Curiouser and curiouser.
[/quote]

Damn KG! You went for the last word! It's so... Unlike you. You ok?

But at least I know you're keeping track as to where I am all the time. Not very accurately but that should make no never mind...

As I said earlier, carry on.

[golfer]

[quote name='nbg352' timestamp='1382662068' post='8054167']
Well, you've certainly made a rather rude and obnoxious entrance into this thread, haven't you?
I'd suggest that if YOU read the thread, especially where you inserted your question, you'd have noticed that I was part of the exchange.
I hope future dealings with you will be more pleasant for us both, don't you?
Please, if you notice any of my grammatical errors, don't correct. I like 'em messy looking, now and again.
[/quote]

No, I have not. I entered this thread before today, so if "YOU read the thread" you'd already know that. In reference to you being a "part of the exchange" I referenced, I only commented on the portion of the thread that I deemed relevant for me. Therefore, your commentary didn't make the cut.

However, regardless of how rational or irrational your opinion may be, you are entitled to express it. However, you are not entitled to express it without repercussions.

Yes, although I don't believe our past "dealings" have been unpleasant, I do look forward to pleasant conversations with you.

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1382659058' post='8053877']
TPC is not a USGA event.

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382658876' post='8053855']
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382657357' post='8053701']
I promise you, no one who respects the game of golf, and it's Rules, is giving Tiger a pass for TPC. He now joins Arnold Palmer, Gary Player, Vijay Singh, and Stewart Cink in the Pro Golf Hall of Shame.
For having the courage to tell the truth I expect Chamblee has been receiving dozens of phone calls from current and former PGA Tour players.
[/quote]

I respect the game and its rules very much and I'm giving Tiger a pass for TPC because he did nothing wrong. Show me a single comment from anyone at the USGA stating that Tiger cheated at TPC. I seriously doubt if you can, which means that either everyone at the USGA would rather hide this under the rug than stand up for the rules of the game (which I just lost - dammit), or you're wrong. I know where my money is.
[/quote]
[/quote]

So?

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='Pat_Irish' timestamp='1382658067' post='8053775']
Disagree.

Because you can demand the same "unwritten" rule of anyone who committs an infraction that they failed to call on themselves because they WOULD have signed an incorrect card. At what point does that end?

Bottomline, the rules also allow for what the Masters RC did, and the USGA agreed that it was an appropriate use of the rule for waiving disqualifications.

You may feel differently. But then you're going to be in a battle with both the Masters and the usga

Kelly
It was the appropiate rule for waiving the dsq. it was not applicable to use it. 33.7 to the best of my knowledge was put there to cover a rules official giving a wrong ruling . The addition was the HD ( or Harrington ) rule

taking your point a step more, it should be impossible to get DSQ for not signing your card as there is a scorer in the "hut" who should check your card when you present it to him as an accurate record of your score, so if its not signed he should bring it to your attention and if he does'nt it is his/her fault ??? I don't think so
[/quote]

The first version of 33-7 appeared under a different number in about 1952. It wasn't "put there" just to address rules officials in professional golf.

[Ty_Webb]

I never said he cheated. I said the whole situation was extremely questionable and I stand by that. Not that I would necessarily expect you to understand this, but you should really go have a look at what the rules have to say about piled for removal. Here it is from the definition of Ground Under Repair:

[quote][color=#000000][size=3]Grass cuttings and other material left on the [/size][/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Course"]course[/url][/i][color=#000000][size=3] that have been abandoned and are not intended to be removed are not [/size][/color][i][url="http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Definitions/#Ground-Under-Repair"]ground under repair[/url][/i][color=#000000][size=3] unless so marked.[/size][/color]
[/quote]

I don't think that fallen branches that are deep in the woods are piled for removal - certainly not when they've got ivy growing over them. Those trees looked abandoned to me and so I think Els shouldn't have got relief. He did, because the official gave it to him, so he wasn't cheating, but he got very lucky and IMO Mickelson winning that was the "right thing".
[quote name='square' timestamp='1382659008' post='8053869']
Piles for removal is piles for removal. Does not matter if the pile is on the schedule for removal next day or next year. And if a player receives a Ruling from an official, no matter what , it is not cheating. At Oakmont USGA official trey Holland gave Els an improper line-of-play Ruling (immovable obstruction t,v. tower was in fact on wheels, and movable). Since it was an official ruling, Els did not cheat.


[/quote]

[Hawkeye77]

My recollection is Ernie was doing everything but outright begging at the time, that is the only thing that bothered me. Didn't agree with the ruling, either, but he was so forlorn . . .

[Ty_Webb]

[quote name='HAWKEYE77' timestamp='1382665745' post='8054463']
My recollection is Ernie was doing everything but outright begging at the time, that is the only thing that bothered me. Didn't agree with the ruling, either, but he was so forlorn . . .
[/quote]

Yes - that sounds like what I remember too. After the first two officials said no it's not piled for removal he kept complaining. Then the 3rd guy came along and said it was GUR and he could take relief. Afterwards Ernie was most forthright about the whole situation - he called it greenkeeper's rubble. First and only time I've heard that phrase.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had something that was piled for removal, I think I would remove it before the Master's, not after.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='hogans71' timestamp='1382663165' post='8054279']
[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382661767' post='8054135']
Yep.

I don't push your buttons in the least. Not at all.

[i]Yet, you always manage to find me wherever I'm posting.[/i]

Curiouser and curiouser.
[/quote]

Damn KG! You went for the last word! It's so... Unlike you. You ok?

[i][b]But at least I know you're keeping track as to where I am all the time. Not very accurately but that should make no never mind...[/b][/i]

As I said earlier, carry on.
[/quote]

[PGArox]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382661705' post='8054123']
Tiger is golf.

Nobody has anything to say about golf

Unless they are talking about

Tiger Woods
[/quote]


GO PHIL!

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Ty_Webb' timestamp='1382666013' post='8054491']


Yes - that sounds like what I remember too. After the first two officials said no it's not piled for removal he kept complaining. Then the 3rd guy came along and said it was GUR and he could take relief. Afterwards Ernie was most forthright about the whole situation - he called it greenkeeper's rubble. First and only time I've heard that phrase.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if I had something that was piled for removal, I think I would remove it before the Master's, not after.
[/quote]I agree completely with this. I was offended that his continued demands ended up getting rewarded. I was saddened that he hit an excellent shot out of the woods after his drop. Must have used his one club length from the npr very well.

The only thing I disagree with is the hole number. I'm quite sure it was a hook off the tee at the par 5 thirteenth.

[PGArox]

[quote name='kellygreen' timestamp='1382650834' post='8053079']


Sorry but Merriam-Webster's is wrong..[b][i]if [/i][/b]that is what they said. That definition is too broad, too ambiguous...and can apply to anyone who doesn't wait for the light to change before crossing the street. Since a wide range of people committ antisocial acts who are not true sociopaths/psychopaths.

"Sociopath" is not a word of common English usage, but is instead a[i][b] psychiatric diagnosis[/b][/i]. A person who is suffering from what is called "Anti-social personality disorder".

So the proper place to turn for its definition is the [i]Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders[/i] as published by the American Psychiatric Association. It is currently on its fifth edition which was just released a few months ago, so it is difficult to find an on-line link. So I'll quote you from the previous edition---4th edition, revised---which was the gold standard for the diagnosis of mental disorders for the last 20 years.

[url="http://www.accg.net/antisocial.htm"]http://www.accg.net/antisocial.htm[/url]

Ignore the Freudian/psychoanalytic explanations, that is not where mainstream psychiatry is right now. Most psychiatrists believe that ASPD is the result of a primary brain disfunction that limits the ability to process emotion and emotional cues in a normal fashion. Resulting in an inner emotional poverty and a severe impairment in the ability to empathize with others, or to form a conscience or moral compass. Combined with an upbringing that is often characterized by early domestic chaos, and parental abuse/deprivation.

Low functioning individuals with this disorder generally populate our prisons systems. Where it is estimated that as many as one inmate in every three suffers from the disorder.

Higher functioning individuals with the disorder---especially those of high intelligence---tend to be drawn to occupations where personal wealth and power can be accumulated, and where ethical codes are grey or "fluid". So you'll see a higher percentage of sociopaths in professions like the law, politics, and finance.

Bottomline, Woods shows none of the tell-tale traits of antisocial---or any other major---personality disorder.

What he does show signs of, is having grown up in an emotionally dysfunctionoal family with a father who was himself a womanizer, and may have had a process addiction. People who grow up in such families---especially the oldest or only children in such families---are often perfectionistic, driven, and have difficulty with interpersonal relationships. One of the rigid personalities/family roles that such dysfunctional units enforce upon the children. That particular role is often referred to as the "Hero" role. Other roles include: Mascot, Lost child, Scapegoat, etc...

To make a long story short, you would never get the sort of "apology press conference" and expression of personal wrong doing that Woods has consistently demonstrated when he is confronted with his mistakes/errors. Because a true sociopath NEVER, ever thinks he does anything wrong. Whatever negative consequences he faces---in his mind---are always the result of being misunderstood, or his being victimized by society.

I won't link it here, because the reality is pretty graphic and pretty horrifying. But if you want to see and hear what a true sociopath is like---its like sitting in a roam with a predator that has decided that you are on the menu----go to YouTube and look up Ariel Castro's statement at his sentencing hearing. it is a 15 minute rambling soliloquy of psychic defenses where he shows no remorse for what he did to those girls. Admits to no wrong-doing or harm to them on his part....and that he is a blameless and sympathetic figure. It is the mind of someone who only sees himself as "real"...and everyone else around him are just cartoons and game pieces.
[/quote]

Thanks, KG. Very imformative.

[mark m]

I recall it that it was #11. Piled for removal in the middle of the woods.

I thought TW got a very favorable ruling at Doral with the ball stuck in the tree. No doubt that everyone saw it go in there. And they could see a ball in the tree with the binoculars. But all they could see was a black line which they deemed as an identifying mark. They could not identify ball type or number or any other mark. There could have been more than one ball in that tree. Half the field probably marks there ball with a line. I think they didn't want a spectator climbing the tree so they made a generous ruling that you and I would probably never get.

[idrive]

Anyone else hoping Chumpblee is fired.

I didn't care for him before. I've always wondered how his shoulders carried his
oversized (big) head around.

Great time to do a major overhaul at GC. New, fresh blood is needed.

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1382668240' post='8054691']
I recall it that it was #11. Piled for removal in the middle of the woods.

I thought TW got a very favorable ruling at Doral with the ball stuck in the tree. No doubt that everyone saw it go in there. And they could see a ball in the tree with the binoculars. But all they could see was a black line which they deemed as an identifying mark. They could not identify ball type or number or any other mark. There could have been more than one ball in that tree. Half the field probably marks there ball with a line. I think they didn't want a spectator climbing the tree so they made a generous ruling that you and I would probably never get.
[/quote]

It was his ball, let it go.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='idrive' timestamp='1382668489' post='8054707']
Anyone else hoping Chumpblee is fired.

I didn't care for him before. I've always wondered how his shoulders carried his
oversized (big) head around.

Great time to do a major overhaul at GC. New, fresh blood is needed.
[/quote]

On target all around.

[tstephen]

If Tiger is golf and his integrity is in question then the integrity of golf is in question and the tour should assign a rules official permanently to Tiger.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1382667499' post='8054615']
I agree completely with this. I was offended that his continued demands ended up getting rewarded. I was saddened that he hit an excellent shot out of the woods after his drop. Must have used his one club length from the npr very well.

The only thing I disagree with is the hole number. I'm quite sure it was a hook off the tee at the par 5 thirteenth.
[/quote]

I Googled it, I was wrong. 11th it was.

[mark m]

[quote name='tstephen' timestamp='1382669678' post='8054805']
If Tiger is golf and his integrity is in question then the integrity of golf is in question and the tour should assign a rules official permanently to Tiger.
[/quote]

They screw up too. There will be plenty of scrutiny and cameras on him in the future. It will only get worse. It's a shame.

[square]

The reason this thread is 40 pages is because some people don't want to admit Tiger cheated at TPC. And, or,, some people think cheating is o.k.; that Tiger should not be criticized for it.

[tstephen]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1382670782' post='8054865']
The reason this thread is 40 pages is because some people don't want to admit Tiger cheated at TPC. And, or,, some people think cheating is o.k.; that Tiger should not be criticized for it.
[/quote]

Tiger is ok with it because he turned away from the TPC tee shot before splashdown and maybe it was a lopsided ball and sliced back over land before duck hooking back into the MIDDLE of the lake and maybe Casey & his caddy had just eaten some wild mushrooms they found on the 11th hole and were hallucinating.

[bscinstnct]

I really hope that the message board rules experts and Brandel

Allow TW to play golf next year

He does have

79 wins and

14 Majors

and I think he may be interested in hitting some golf balls around.

If that's ok with the golfwrx guardians of the game ; )

[eagle1997]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382671513' post='8054953']
I really hope that the message board rules experts and Brandel

Allow TW to play golf next year

He does have

79 wins and

14 Majors

and I think he may be interested in hitting some golf balls around.

If that's ok with the golfwrx guardians of the game ; )
[/quote]

I find your posts

Strangely hypnotic

To read to myself

In a quiet place

In a comfortable chair.


All I need

Is a smooth Scotch

And a fine cigar

And it would be

Perfection.

[tstephen]

[quote name='eagle1997' timestamp='1382671777' post='8054967']
[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1382671513' post='8054953']
I really hope that the message board rules experts and Brandel

Allow TW to play golf next year

He does have

79 wins and

14 Majors

and I think he may be interested in hitting some golf balls around.

If that's ok with the golfwrx guardians of the game ; )
[/quote]

I find your posts

Strangely hypnotic

To read to myself

In a quiet place

In a comfortable chair.


All I need

Is a smooth Scotch

And a fine cigar

And it would be

Perfection.
[/quote]

It's the mushrooms

[Hawkeye77]

[quote name='square' timestamp='1382670782' post='8054865']
The reason this thread is 40 pages is because some people don't want to admit Tiger cheated at TPC. And, or,, some people think cheating is o.k.; that Tiger should not be criticized for it.
[/quote]

You don't think posting the same thing every few pages isn't a wee bit trollish? Meet the billy goat gruff.