14 club rule

[tbowles411]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1360935311' post='6433191']
[quote name='putfrdo' timestamp='1359237006' post='6304183'][b][i][size=2][size=3]By the way... I carry 13 most times in my bag and play to a two without the extra baggage.[/size][/size][/i][/b]
[/quote]

the extra baggage of ONE club?!!?

Wow. that's crazy man
[/quote]
Sometimes one more is just too many. You have to know your limits.

[strug'-a-ling]

[attachment=3058916:Fifteen.gif]

[LeoLeo99]

My bag also has 15 dividers and I played for 2 months with 15 clubs. Didn't help me one bit except that birdie at Arroyo Red Rocks where I used the 54°. The 54° got the boot but the 3h and 4h don't seem to have much gap between them so the 54° might make a reprisal.

[SPH]

with out reading all the posts on this, I think I have to respectfully agree with most of you.

In the interest of speeding up play, I think their should be no limit on the amount of clubs. Let people carry 40 if they want. I see what you guys are saying about less clubs increasing shot making, but I dont think it would happen that way. Most people just dont have the ability to do a whole lot of creative shot making, thus they would miss more shots trying to pull off things that they cant do. It would also slow play down even more because of spending so much time trying to figure out how to play it, and then finding their miss hit, and repeating the same process again on the next one. I think if people had as many clubs as they wanted, they would have an easier time figuring out what to do, and it would make the game more enjoyable and faster. I see the point of better shot making, but thats for the range, not the course.

Golf is supposedly dying from time taken to play it, and difficulty of the game. Let people do what ever they want! Take as many clubs as they can to make it easier, which will speed it up, which will also probably get more clubs sold. All of which are things that have to be good for the game!

[Newby]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449672914' post='12698636'] Let people carry 40 if they want. [b]Let people do what ever they want![/b] Take as many clubs as they can to make it easier, which will speed it up, which will also probably get more clubs sold. All of which are things that have to be good for the game!
[/quote]

But of course everyone will be playing a different form of the game to everyone else. Which it means it won't be the same game.

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1449682596' post='12699292']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449672914' post='12698636'] Let people carry 40 if they want. [b]Let people do what ever they want![/b] Take as many clubs as they can to make it easier, which will speed it up, which will also probably get more clubs sold. All of which are things that have to be good for the game!
[/quote]

But of course everyone will be playing a different form of the game to everyone else. Which it means it won't be the same game.
[/quote]

To the vast majority of people, it would be the same game. Regardless, I'm sure courses would prefer many people playing "not-golf" over few people playing "golf".

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1449685170' post='12699470']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1449682596' post='12699292']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449672914' post='12698636'] Let people carry 40 if they want. [b]Let people do what ever they want![/b] Take as many clubs as they can to make it easier, which will speed it up, which will also probably get more clubs sold. All of which are things that have to be good for the game!
[/quote]

But of course everyone will be playing a different form of the game to everyone else. Which it means it won't be the same game.
[/quote]

To the vast majority of people, it would be the same game. Regardless, I'm sure courses would prefer many people playing "not-golf" over few people playing "golf".
[/quote]

Courses, I must assume, would prefer you give them your money and then not play at all. I don't think I want them defining the game for me!

[Halebopp]

Adding to the number of clubs isn't going to make a huge difference. Bad swing technique, short game and course management aren't going to be fixed by the number of clubs resting in the bag while you're swinging away.

14 clubs is plenty enough to carry a driver, a fairway wood, a hybrid, a driving iron, some irons and wedges. If you get into trouble with all of them, you need to practice more. If you don't get into trouble with all of them but keep using the ones that do get you in trouble, you need to re-think your game plan.

I might consider rethinking my wedges if the rules allowed but I realize dropping a couple of clubs wouldn't hurt my scores at all. While I use both 3 and 5 woods, I wouldn't lose much without the 3 wood and once I get the 3 iron I've ordered my 4 iron will be seeing very little action and my scores wouldn't suffer without it. Getting below 10 clubs might start to cause some headaches though.

[Sawgrass]

I played in a tournament this year in which I was restricted to just three clubs. I picked a hybrid, pitching wedge and putter.

I shot 2.5 strokes over my tepid average for the year. Plus, it was a wonderful feeling of freedom to get on every tee without fear of hooking my driver OB.

(I'm not sure I'm getting great value from my other 11 clubs.)

BTW, the gross winner shot a 76 with a 6i, sand wedge an putter. I'm pretty sure I don't know how to play golf.

[SPH]

Agreed on most of this. Courses and OEMs would for sure prefer more people playing, regardless of anything. I also agree that it would be the same game to the vast majority of people. Maybe I am missing something here, but I think that would just speed it up and make it easier! I cant see the logic in taking clubs out to force people to "make shots", since most cant make shots happen as things are now.

[SPH]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1449688050' post='12699660']
Adding to the number of clubs isn't going to make a huge difference. Bad swing technique, short game and course management aren't going to be fixed by the number of clubs resting in the bag while you're swinging away.

14 clubs is plenty enough to carry a driver, a fairway wood, a hybrid, a driving iron, some irons and wedges. If you get into trouble with all of them, you need to practice more. If you don't get into trouble with all of them but keep using the ones that do get you in trouble, you need to re-think your game plan.

I might consider rethinking my wedges if the rules allowed but I realize dropping a couple of clubs wouldn't hurt my scores at all. While I use both 3 and 5 woods, I wouldn't lose much without the 3 wood and once I get the 3 iron I've ordered my 4 iron will be seeing very little action and my scores wouldn't suffer without it. Getting below 10 clubs might start to cause some headaches though.
[/quote]

I totally agree that you can still get into the same amount of trouble, and poor technique will still hurt people just as much. But having more clubs to handle more situations would have to help things IMO

[Shambles]

As people play better, they also need fewer clubs. I'm not even sure if they actually need half the clubs they carry, but I would not be all that surprised.

Check out the grips that have the greatest wear in your set and try playing the ones that are least used. Play a few rounds and you might find that the other clubs play pretty much the same places. When you play for score, it's rather inevitable. We most of us probably play about half the clubs we carry.



Shambles

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1449686822' post='12699582']
[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1449685170' post='12699470']
[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1449682596' post='12699292']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449672914' post='12698636'] Let people carry 40 if they want. [b]Let people do what ever they want![/b] Take as many clubs as they can to make it easier, which will speed it up, which will also probably get more clubs sold. All of which are things that have to be good for the game!
[/quote]

But of course everyone will be playing a different form of the game to everyone else. Which it means it won't be the same game.
[/quote]

To the vast majority of people, it would be the same game. Regardless, I'm sure courses would prefer many people playing "not-golf" over few people playing "golf".
[/quote]

Courses, I must assume, would prefer you give them your money and then not play at all. I don't think I want them defining the game for me!
[/quote]

I disagree with your assumption. The user experience in your example would be terrible, and the courses would get no repeat business. They would be best served to find a way to maximize your enjoyment of the game, while maintaining the integrity of the course/game for all.

[SPH]

SeaOfGreen10, what are you basing on that basing that on? how would the users get a terrible experience/ courses get no repeat business? If anything, I dont see how the club number could possibly impact the courses amount of play. I am not talking adopt a local rule allowing as many as you want, I am saying I think the maximum clubs should be greatly increased per the rules. That way it doesnt change the integrity of the game in any way.

Not trying to smart in my reply, just curious what makes you assume the user experience of as many clubs as desired, would be terrible?

[SPH]

[quote name='Shambles' timestamp='1449690697' post='12699812']
As people play better, they also need fewer clubs. I'm not even sure if they actually need half the clubs they carry, but I would not be all that surprised.

Check out the grips that have the greatest wear in your set and try playing the ones that are least used. Play a few rounds and you might find that the other clubs play pretty much the same places. When you play for score, it's rather inevitable. We most of us probably play about half the clubs we carry.



Shambles
[/quote]

I dunno... the pros have gotten pretty good, and still opt for 14 clubs. Not sure getting better means you need fewer clubs. If anything, As you get better you could use the full amount, but have more options with each club. I think more options has to equal better.

[Newby]

My Club runs about 1/2 doz 'Five Club' competitions a year. Depending on who organises it, it's either including or plus a putter.

It was surprising (but not now) how good the scores are. Most players are very close to their handicap. Often the average scoring is better than the monthly medal.

[Newby]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449691762' post='12699886']
I think more options has to equal better.
[/quote]

But probably not quicker. Have you ever waited for your wife to decide which outfit she is going to wear (non PC I know but ......) or a child choosing what coloured jelly bean to pick?

[SPH]

[quote name='Newby' timestamp='1449692483' post='12699974']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449691762' post='12699886']
I think more options has to equal better.
[/quote]

But probably not quicker. Have you ever waited for your wife to decide which outfit she is going to wear (non PC I know but ......) or a child choosing what coloured jelly bean to pick?
[/quote]

Very nice! I did get a good laugh out of that one!!

In all seriousness though... Instead of someone going "okay now I need to take ten yards off this, so Im going to grip at X, and hit a X yard amount of fade, and take X number of practice swings.." Instead of that long drawn out process that usually would all be for nothing, if that person just had a club that would go that exact distance (roughly obviously..), they could just hit their go to shot with out all the fuss.

You do have a point though about someone taking forever to just pick the club. I agree thats a strong possibility, I just personally feel itd still be faster most of the time to have the club.

[Low3]

[quote name='dubbie' timestamp='1171815729' post='450024']
I play my weekend rounds under the newly adopted local rule of a 22 club limit.


[/quote]

Haha love it, best post ever made. But in all to me It would matter if it was 12 or 14 I do agree that it would promote better shot makers and craters but eh not to important in this game we all play.

[Halebopp]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449689434' post='12699722']
[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1449688050' post='12699660']
Adding to the number of clubs isn't going to make a huge difference. Bad swing technique, short game and course management aren't going to be fixed by the number of clubs resting in the bag while you're swinging away.

14 clubs is plenty enough to carry a driver, a fairway wood, a hybrid, a driving iron, some irons and wedges. If you get into trouble with all of them, you need to practice more. If you don't get into trouble with all of them but keep using the ones that do get you in trouble, you need to re-think your game plan.

I might consider rethinking my wedges if the rules allowed but I realize dropping a couple of clubs wouldn't hurt my scores at all. While I use both 3 and 5 woods, I wouldn't lose much without the 3 wood and once I get the 3 iron I've ordered my 4 iron will be seeing very little action and my scores wouldn't suffer without it. Getting below 10 clubs might start to cause some headaches though.
[/quote]

I totally agree that you can still get into the same amount of trouble, and poor technique will still hurt people just as much. But having more clubs to handle more situations would have to help things IMO
[/quote]

I do agree with you that more clubs will provide more possibilities but part of my point was that 14 clubs is plenty enough to take care of that. 12 clubs probably isn't a problem for most but 10 or less really starts to limit your options.

- Driver
- Fairway wood
- Hybrid
- Driving iron
- Irons 5-P
- Wedges 50*, 54* and 60*
- Putter

Excluding a chipper you can get all the club types with 14 clubs for your long game and more than enough wedges for your short game. Considering that, I'm sure everyone can demo clubs and get the suitable setup for themselves. Of course, if you need a fairway wood, a hybrid and an iron that all go 210 yards, 200 yards and so forth, you're in trouble.

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449691668' post='12699882']
SeaOfGreen10, what are you basing on that basing that on? how would the users get a terrible experience/ courses get no repeat business? If anything, I dont see how the club number could possibly impact the courses amount of play. I am not talking adopt a local rule allowing as many as you want, I am saying I think the maximum clubs should be greatly increased per the rules. That way it doesnt change the integrity of the game in any way.

Not trying to smart in my reply, just curious what makes you assume the user experience of as many clubs as desired, would be terrible?
[/quote]

My response was directed at Sawgrass - sorry if that wasn't clear. I completely agree with you regarding the allowable number of clubs.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1449697532' post='12700280']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449691668' post='12699882']
SeaOfGreen10, what are you basing on that basing that on? how would the users get a terrible experience/ courses get no repeat business? If anything, I dont see how the club number could possibly impact the courses amount of play. I am not talking adopt a local rule allowing as many as you want, I am saying I think the maximum clubs should be greatly increased per the rules. That way it doesnt change the integrity of the game in any way.

Not trying to smart in my reply, just curious what makes you assume the user experience of as many clubs as desired, would be terrible?
[/quote]

My response was directed at Sawgrass - sorry if that wasn't clear. I completely agree with you regarding the allowable number of clubs.
[/quote]

I knew you were talking to me. And you're no doubt correct . . . but I still hold the position that my post was way funnier.

[SPH]

[quote name='Sawgrass' timestamp='1449698257' post='12700332']
[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1449697532' post='12700280']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449691668' post='12699882']
SeaOfGreen10, what are you basing on that basing that on? how would the users get a terrible experience/ courses get no repeat business? If anything, I dont see how the club number could possibly impact the courses amount of play. I am not talking adopt a local rule allowing as many as you want, I am saying I think the maximum clubs should be greatly increased per the rules. That way it doesnt change the integrity of the game in any way.

Not trying to smart in my reply, just curious what makes you assume the user experience of as many clubs as desired, would be terrible?
[/quote]

My response was directed at Sawgrass - sorry if that wasn't clear. I completely agree with you regarding the allowable number of clubs.
[/quote]

I knew you were talking to me. And you're no doubt correct . . . but I still hold the position that my post was way funnier.
[/quote]

haha apparently something went way over my head with this one...

[SPH]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1449694573' post='12700108']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449689434' post='12699722']
[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1449688050' post='12699660']
Adding to the number of clubs isn't going to make a huge difference. Bad swing technique, short game and course management aren't going to be fixed by the number of clubs resting in the bag while you're swinging away.

14 clubs is plenty enough to carry a driver, a fairway wood, a hybrid, a driving iron, some irons and wedges. If you get into trouble with all of them, you need to practice more. If you don't get into trouble with all of them but keep using the ones that do get you in trouble, you need to re-think your game plan.

I might consider rethinking my wedges if the rules allowed but I realize dropping a couple of clubs wouldn't hurt my scores at all. While I use both 3 and 5 woods, I wouldn't lose much without the 3 wood and once I get the 3 iron I've ordered my 4 iron will be seeing very little action and my scores wouldn't suffer without it. Getting below 10 clubs might start to cause some headaches though.
[/quote]

I totally agree that you can still get into the same amount of trouble, and poor technique will still hurt people just as much. But having more clubs to handle more situations would have to help things IMO
[/quote]

I do agree with you that more clubs will provide more possibilities but part of my point was that 14 clubs is plenty enough to take care of that. 12 clubs probably isn't a problem for most but 10 or less really starts to limit your options.

- Driver
- Fairway wood
- Hybrid
- Driving iron
- Irons 5-P
- Wedges 50*, 54* and 60*
- Putter

Excluding a chipper you can get all the club types with 14 clubs for your long game and more than enough wedges for your short game. Considering that, I'm sure everyone can demo clubs and get the suitable setup for themselves. Of course, if you need a fairway wood, a hybrid and an iron that all go 210 yards, 200 yards and so forth, you're in trouble.
[/quote]

Agreed sir

14 is enough for a lot of people. I personally feel that way, but often do think, damn I wish I had my mini driver, other hybrid, different wedge set up, etc. I suppose those are just normal frustrations you get when playing a round though. I actually like the set make up you posted a lot as well. That should suit a lot of people.

Side note, I never got carrying a chipper.... does an iron set not have a club with a loft that is almost exactly the same? lol

[Halebopp]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449707078' post='12700880'][quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1449694573' post='12700108']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449689434' post='12699722']
[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1449688050' post='12699660']
Adding to the number of clubs isn't going to make a huge difference. Bad swing technique, short game and course management aren't going to be fixed by the number of clubs resting in the bag while you're swinging away.

14 clubs is plenty enough to carry a driver, a fairway wood, a hybrid, a driving iron, some irons and wedges. If you get into trouble with all of them, you need to practice more. If you don't get into trouble with all of them but keep using the ones that do get you in trouble, you need to re-think your game plan.

I might consider rethinking my wedges if the rules allowed but I realize dropping a couple of clubs wouldn't hurt my scores at all. While I use both 3 and 5 woods, I wouldn't lose much without the 3 wood and once I get the 3 iron I've ordered my 4 iron will be seeing very little action and my scores wouldn't suffer without it. Getting below 10 clubs might start to cause some headaches though.
[/quote]

I totally agree that you can still get into the same amount of trouble, and poor technique will still hurt people just as much. But having more clubs to handle more situations would have to help things IMO
[/quote]

I do agree with you that more clubs will provide more possibilities but part of my point was that 14 clubs is plenty enough to take care of that. 12 clubs probably isn't a problem for most but 10 or less really starts to limit your options.

- Driver
- Fairway wood
- Hybrid
- Driving iron
- Irons 5-P
- Wedges 50*, 54* and 60*
- Putter

Excluding a chipper you can get all the club types with 14 clubs for your long game and more than enough wedges for your short game. Considering that, I'm sure everyone can demo clubs and get the suitable setup for themselves. Of course, if you need a fairway wood, a hybrid and an iron that all go 210 yards, 200 yards and so forth, you're in trouble.
[/quote]

Agreed sir

14 is enough for a lot of people. I personally feel that way, but often do think, damn I wish I had my mini driver, other hybrid, different wedge set up, etc. I suppose those are just normal frustrations you get when playing a round though. I actually like the set make up you posted a lot as well. That should suit a lot of people.

Side note, I never got carrying a chipper.... does an iron set not have a club with a loft that is almost exactly the same? lol[/quote]

I've understood the idea of a chipper is that you can use it like a putter. It beats me though how you're supposed to dig the ball out of deep rough and onto a green with a putting motion.

I must've missed the part of Phil Mickelson's short game video about chippers.

[marmooskapaul]

Well since it's out of season to post scores in Indiana and singles can no longer post scores....I carry however many I want..from Nov. 15 thru March 1.....and any time I play alone...lol

Paul

[teejaywhy]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449672914' post='12698636']
In the interest of speeding up play, I think their should be no limit on the amount of clubs. Let people carry 40 if they want.
[/quote]

I may have already posted this already in this zombie thread.

I agree - you can carry as many as you want. Key word - "carry." Bag on shoulder, walking.

I highly doubt giving a slow golfer more choices will speed them up.

And in 45 years of playing golf, I have yet to ever hear of someone quitting the game because they were limited to 14 clubs.

[SPH]

[quote name='teejaywhy' timestamp='1450049269' post='12716096']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1449672914' post='12698636']
In the interest of speeding up play, I think their should be no limit on the amount of clubs. Let people carry 40 if they want.
[/quote]

I may have already posted this already in this zombie thread.

I agree - you can carry as many as you want. Key word - "carry." Bag on shoulder, walking.

I highly doubt giving a slow golfer more choices will speed them up.

And in 45 years of playing golf, I have yet to ever hear of someone quitting the game because they were limited to 14 clubs.
[/quote]

I didnt mean anyone would quit because of how many clubs they carry specifically. I am sure you have heard of people quitting because the game is to hard and frustrates them though. I feel more clubs in the bag would make it easier, thus people would enjoy it more and not get as frustrated.

Nor did I mean giving a slow golfer more clubs would speed them up. It certaintly wouldnt speed up how they go about things, but having more options as to how to hit a shot due to more clubs, could cut back on decision making time, and having the exact right club because you have so many in the bag, could make it easier to execute shots, thus speeding up play.

I think the 14 club rule directly effects those things a lot, but just in a round about way.

[Halebopp]

[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1450098074' post='12717912']

I didnt mean anyone would quit because of how many clubs they carry specifically. I am sure you have heard of people quitting because the game is to hard and frustrates them though. I feel more clubs in the bag would make it easier, thus people would enjoy it more and not get as frustrated.
[/quote]

True that more clubs might make it easier even for a beginner but the other side of the coin is money (well, duh). A beginner walks into a big box store and he is told he needs 20 clubs, all of them are essential. He might not have any friends who would know better and looking at the price tags decides golf is not for him/her.

[SPH]

[quote name='Halebopp' timestamp='1450122280' post='12719634']
[quote name='SPH' timestamp='1450098074' post='12717912']
I didnt mean anyone would quit because of how many clubs they carry specifically. I am sure you have heard of people quitting because the game is to hard and frustrates them though. I feel more clubs in the bag would make it easier, thus people would enjoy it more and not get as frustrated.
[/quote]

True that more clubs might make it easier even for a beginner but the other side of the coin is money (well, duh). A beginner walks into a big box store and he is told he needs 20 clubs, all of them are essential. He might not have any friends who would know better and looking at the price tags decides golf is not for him/her.
[/quote]

thats a very good point