Tiger stepping / 8-iron spin trick confusion

Since it's club tinkering season now I've been startin to do just that.

This season I had less success with my wedge play than in 2014 (TM in 2015 vs Vokey in 2014). I'm going to assume it's because I reshafted my Vokey's with the same shafts as in my irons but I didn't do that this year with my TM wedges (I load the shaft pretty good and often take a hard 3/4 to full shot with my 54 wedge).

So after doing a lot of reading online, I've decided to try my own spinner shaft --- going up a flex and using an 8 iron. If that doesn't work out I'll simply put the same make/flex 9-iron shaft in my SW as what's in my irons and tip it 3/8".

Point of this thread: There seems to be some confusion as to what Tiger stepping and the 8-iron spinner trick actually is.

There are many posts saying both are the same thing --- go up a flex and use an 8 iron.

However, there are a few by guys who seem to 100% know what they are discussing (such as Howard) who, if I'm reading correctly, say Tiger stepping is going down a flex, using a 9-iron and tipping it 3/8".

Eg: If your regular shaft is x100, use a S400 9-iron and tip it 3/8".

Yes, this is just semantics but am I correct to say that Tiger stepping and the 8-iron spinner trick are NOT the same procedure and many are calling the 8-iron spinner trick Tiger stepping in error?

Theres a whole big thread started by MadGolfer on tiger stepping. Worth the read. I think Howard Jones chimes in there as well. G luck! I love tinker season! Im tinkering now too! lol

I've read dozens on various forums.

But it certainly appears there is definite confusion as to what Tiger stepping actually is by many, many posters.

I know them to be two distinct different applications for wedge shafts. I didn't even realize there was confusion.

[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448379020' post='12640176']
I know them to be two distinct different applications for wedge shafts. I didn't even realize there was confusion.
[/quote]

That's how I read the posts by guys like Howard --- they are two different compleletly techniques for creating a wedge shaft.

However, there are many posts on various forums saying (sic) "I Tiger stepped my wedges...I went up a flex and used an 8 iron shaft..."

Again, it's just semantics but nonetheless....

I'm playing C-taper 130 X's soft stepped in my irons and C-taper 130 X's soft stepped twice in my wedges (i.e. 8 iron shaft). I love it. Doesn't really spin more but just feels a tad softer for wedge shots.

[quote name='Tac' timestamp='1448379419' post='12640210']
[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448379020' post='12640176']
I know them to be two distinct different applications for wedge shafts. I didn't even realize there was confusion.
[/quote]

That's how I read the posts by guys like Howard --- they are two different compleletly techniques for creating a wedge shaft.

However, there are many posts on various forums saying (sic) "I Tiger stepped my wedges...I went up a flex and used an 8 iron shaft..."

Again, it's just semantics but nonetheless....
[/quote]

Guys love dropping Tiger's name. The funny thing is that Tiger isn't even the person who came up with the idea. It was Bob Vokey and he was doing it long before he told Tiger to do it [1]. In reality, it should be called "Vokey stepped".

[1] - http://www.golftoday.co.uk/equipment/features/irons/high_flyer/bob_vokey.html

[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448382470' post='12640424']
[quote name='Tac' timestamp='1448379419' post='12640210']
[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448379020' post='12640176']
I know them to be two distinct different applications for wedge shafts. I didn't even realize there was confusion.
[/quote]

That's how I read the posts by guys like Howard --- they are two different compleletly techniques for creating a wedge shaft.

However, there are many posts on various forums saying (sic) "I Tiger stepped my wedges...I went up a flex and used an 8 iron shaft..."

Again, it's just semantics but nonetheless....
[/quote]

Guys love dropping Tiger's name. The funny thing is that Tiger isn't even the person who came up with the idea. It was Bob Vokey and he was doing it long before he told Tiger to do it [1]. In reality, it should be called "Vokey stepped".

[1] - [url="http://www.golftoday.co.uk/equipment/features/irons/high_flyer/bob_vokey.html"]http://www.golftoday.../bob_vokey.html[/url]
[/quote]

Thats not correct at all, we do not talk playing S400 strait in as wedges when playing X100 in irons.
- Tiger plays his S400 tip trimmed 3/8 thats why we call this type of hard stepping for Tiger stepping, and its not mentioned at all in that article from Vokey so this is not something that Bob Vokey came up with.

Using a X100 #8 iron shaft when playing S300 as irons is whats called the #8 iron spinner trick.

In terms of flex we get 2 shafts very close, with only a few CPM difference but they are still very different shafts, just look at tip and butt length of the 2 shafts and you can see whats going down.

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1448388521' post='12640948']
[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448382470' post='12640424']
[quote name='Tac' timestamp='1448379419' post='12640210']
[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448379020' post='12640176']
I know them to be two distinct different applications for wedge shafts. I didn't even realize there was confusion.
[/quote]

That's how I read the posts by guys like Howard --- they are two different compleletly techniques for creating a wedge shaft.

However, there are many posts on various forums saying (sic) "I Tiger stepped my wedges...I went up a flex and used an 8 iron shaft..."

Again, it's just semantics but nonetheless....
[/quote]

Guys love dropping Tiger's name. The funny thing is that Tiger isn't even the person who came up with the idea. It was Bob Vokey and he was doing it long before he told Tiger to do it [1]. In reality, it should be called "Vokey stepped".

[1] - [url="http://www.golftoday.co.uk/equipment/features/irons/high_flyer/bob_vokey.html"]http://www.golftoday.../bob_vokey.html[/url]
[/quote]

Thats not correct at all, we do not talk playing S400 strait in as wedges when playing X100 in irons.
- Tiger plays his S400 tip trimmed 3/8 thats why we call this type of hard stepping for Tiger stepping, and its not mentioned at all in that article from Vokey so this is not something that Bob Vokey came up with.

Using a X100 #8 iron shaft when playing S300 as irons is whats called the #8 iron spinner trick.

In terms of flex we get 2 shafts very close, with only a few CPM difference but they are still very different shafts, just look at tip and butt length of the 2 shafts and you can see whats going down.
[/quote]

You do realize that I am agreeing with you, don't you? I understand that Tiger stepping is a s400 tip trimmed 3/8 and I am not suggesting that Tiger stepping is going from x100 in your irons to s400 in your wedges. Sorry to everyone for adding to the confusion. I also apologize for not referencing a Bob Vokey quote that included the exact specs of his recommendation to Tiger back in 2000. I'll do better next time.

Would this concept be why Rory plays Project X 6.5s in his wedges and 7.0s in his regular irons? I was always curious as to why the flex was a little less in the wedges for a lot of Tour players.

[quote name='MichiganMan' timestamp='1448394134' post='12641386']
Would this concept be why Rory plays Project X 6.5s in his wedges and 7.0s in his regular irons? I was always curious as to why the flex was a little less in the wedges for a lot of Tour players.
[/quote]

Softer shafts in wedges to accommodate the smoother, less than full out swings with wedges.
I hardly ever see really good players go full out with their wedges. Always smoother tempo controlled shot for spin control.

[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448391438' post='12641206']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1448388521' post='12640948']
[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448382470' post='12640424']
[quote name='Tac' timestamp='1448379419' post='12640210']
[quote name='From_Parts_Unknown' timestamp='1448379020' post='12640176']
I know them to be two distinct different applications for wedge shafts. I didn't even realize there was confusion.
[/quote]

That's how I read the posts by guys like Howard --- they are two different compleletly techniques for creating a wedge shaft.

However, there are many posts on various forums saying (sic) "I Tiger stepped my wedges...I went up a flex and used an 8 iron shaft..."

Again, it's just semantics but nonetheless....
[/quote]

Guys love dropping Tiger's name. The funny thing is that Tiger isn't even the person who came up with the idea. It was Bob Vokey and he was doing it long before he told Tiger to do it [1]. In reality, it should be called "Vokey stepped".

[1] - [url="http://www.golftoday.co.uk/equipment/features/irons/high_flyer/bob_vokey.html"]http://www.golftoday.../bob_vokey.html[/url]
[/quote]

Thats not correct at all, we do not talk playing S400 strait in as wedges when playing X100 in irons.
- Tiger plays his S400 tip trimmed 3/8 thats why we call this type of hard stepping for Tiger stepping, and its not mentioned at all in that article from Vokey so this is not something that Bob Vokey came up with.

Using a X100 #8 iron shaft when playing S300 as irons is whats called the #8 iron spinner trick.

In terms of flex we get 2 shafts very close, with only a few CPM difference but they are still very different shafts, just look at tip and butt length of the 2 shafts and you can see whats going down.
[/quote]

You do realize that I am agreeing with you, don't you? I understand that Tiger stepping is a s400 tip trimmed 3/8 and I am not suggesting that Tiger stepping is going from x100 in your irons to s400 in your wedges. Sorry to everyone for adding to the confusion. I also apologize for not referencing a Bob Vokey quote that included the exact specs of his recommendation to Tiger back in 2000. I'll do better next time.
[/quote]

Be aware of what we really do by tip trim that #9 iron shaft, it is to make a substitute for that PW shaft TT dont make anymore, but back in year 2000 they did, so there was no need to do this back then i 2000. Im not sure when TT stopped offering this shaft as a regular option, but tip trimming could not have been a subject before that shaft was withdrawn from the marked, but i could be wrong.

I'm Sorry!!

Does a shaft have to be parallel tip to do this? Can you tip trim a tapered shaft?

[quote name='b.helts' timestamp='1448402221' post='12641952']
I'm Sorry!!

Does a shaft have to be parallel tip to do this? Can you tip trim a tapered shaft?
[/quote]

We talk TAPER tip here, normally we dont do anything to them, but most hosels do have some space so we normally have no problems to get full insertion even if we tip trim 3/8 some even more.

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1448403343' post='12642068']
[quote name='b.helts' timestamp='1448402221' post='12641952']
I'm Sorry!!

Does a shaft have to be parallel tip to do this? Can you tip trim a tapered shaft?
[/quote]

We talk TAPER tip here, normally we dont do anything to them, but most hosels do have some space so we normally have no problems to get full insertion even if we tip trim 3/8 some even more.
[/quote]

Thank you Howard Jones!

I appreciate the clarification.

Howard, please offer your thoughts if you don't mind.

I play Baby Blades with SteelFiber i110 stiff shafts straight in. And they are perfect. Flight, spin, distance; when I'm on, they are perfect.

I want to use Rory's method, 'softer shaft, softer swing' with my wedges. I play Miura C Grinds. I'm thinking about sticking with the i110 SteelFiber, but rather than going down to a regular, keeping with a stiff and soft stepping with either an 8 iron or 7 iron shaft.

Thoughts?

Thank you!!

[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1449112154' post='12674254']
Howard, please offer your thoughts if you don't mind.

I play Baby Blades with SteelFiber i110 stiff shafts straight in. And they are perfect. Flight, spin, distance; when I'm on, they are perfect.

I want to use Rory's method, 'softer shaft, softer swing' with my wedges. I play Miura C Grinds. I'm thinking about sticking with the i110 SteelFiber, but rather than going down to a regular, keeping with a stiff and soft stepping with either an 8 iron or 7 iron shaft.

Thoughts?

Thank you!!
[/quote]

im not familiar with steelfiber here, but i guess PW is the shortest/strongest, and if we count 3 irons as 1 flex (SSx3), then using a 7 iron shaft is 1 flex softer.
You also have to consider BBGM from irons to wedge. Its most likely higher in your wedges, making them to play softer to start with, plus we weaken flex by more head weight/sw value in wedges. if the shaft works good for irons, then using a 7 iron shaft might give a flight higher than you like, depending on how you play that club, so dont over do this. Dynamic Gold players often just use the #9 iron all the way, since its SS1 and BBGM plus SW takes some flex off too, so try to find the golden midway that would make it right for you.

There has been so many threads about Tiger stepping.
I play TT GS70 regular in my irons and read that I should go up one flex and take a 8-iron shaft and just put that in and but trim! I even read somwhere that you could go up in shaft weight, so I now have TT GS80 stiff 8-iron shaft in my wedges.
It is really confusing, but I suppose you have to find the right threads from leading "gurus"!

[quote name='ccorrada' timestamp='1448381758' post='12640370']
I'm playing C-taper 130 X's soft stepped in my irons and C-taper 130 X's soft stepped twice in my wedges (i.e. 8 iron shaft). I love it. Doesn't really spin more but just feels a tad softer for wedge shots.
[/quote]FYI, pw and 9i shafts are the same. If you did this correctly you would have 7iron shafts in your wedges to soft-step twice.

This is the way i understood it as well and did the same. Play Recoil 95 F3 in irons, recoil 110 F4 8 iron shaft in 50 degree and recoil 125 F4 8 iron shaft in 54 and 58.
[quote name='bjofal' timestamp='1449215603' post='12678858']
There has been so many threads about Tiger stepping.
I play TT GS70 regular in my irons and read that I should go up one flex and take a 8-iron shaft and just put that in and but trim! I even read somwhere that you could go up in shaft weight, so I now have TT GS80 stiff 8-iron shaft in my wedges.
It is really confusing, but I suppose you have to find the right threads from leading "gurus"!
[/quote]

[quote name='bjofal' timestamp='1449215603' post='12678858']
There has been so many threads about Tiger stepping.
I play TT GS70 regular in my irons and read that I should go up one flex and take a 8-iron shaft and just put that in and but trim! I even read somwhere that you could go up in shaft weight, so I now have TT GS80 stiff 8-iron shaft in my wedges.
It is really confusing, but I suppose you have to find the right threads from leading "gurus"!
[/quote]

You got it right, the#8 iron trick is using a #8 iron shaft (DG) from a flex stronger (S300 irons, X100 #8 iron shaft for wedge, if possible X200 or X300 for added weight), but the question from Raidersgolf99 was not about that, but using a #7 or #8 from the same shafts as his irons, so it was only a wedge shaft question in general, and has nothing to do with the "8 iron spinner trick or Tiger stepping(tip trim of taper tip shafts).

Mixing TT GS shafts is common, and the latest set ive made using GS for wedge has 84 grams descending weight R flex graphite in irons 5-9.. GS85 S 8# as PW and GW, and GS 95 S #8 shafts for SW and LW. Its made with 3/8 length difference from 5 to LW, MOI matched, so i think i made most combinations possible when we talk wedge and TT shafts and wedges.

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1449285595' post='12682662']
[quote name='bjofal' timestamp='1449215603' post='12678858']
There has been so many threads about Tiger stepping.
I play TT GS70 regular in my irons and read that I should go up one flex and take a 8-iron shaft and just put that in and but trim! I even read somwhere that you could go up in shaft weight, so I now have TT GS80 stiff 8-iron shaft in my wedges.
It is really confusing, but I suppose you have to find the right threads from leading "gurus"!
[/quote]

You got it right, the#8 iron trick is using a #8 iron shaft (DG) from a flex stronger (S300 irons, X100 #8 iron shaft for wedge, if possible X200 or X300 for added weight), but the question from Raidersgolf99 was not about that, but using a #7 or #8 from the same shafts as his irons, so it was only a wedge shaft question in general, and has nothing to do with the "8 iron spinner trick or Tiger stepping(tip trim of taper tip shafts).

Mixing TT GS shafts is common, and the latest set ive made using GS for wedge has 84 grams descending weight R flex graphite in irons 5-9.. GS85 S 8# as PW and GW, and GS 95 S #8 shafts for SW and LW. Its made with 3/8 length difference from 5 to LW, MOI matched, so i think i made most combinations possible when we talk wedge and TT shafts and wedges.
[/quote]

Thanks Howard,
I also have a Ping i20 that I have assembled with Steelfiber i70 CW a-flex (plays like r-flex), I now play the new Ping Glide wedges (50, 54 & 58) with the CFS wedge shaft, pretty heavy, 118g, could I put my GS95 S 8-iron shaft in these heads an keep the swingweight at D2, D3 & D4?
Are you still in Dennmark or have you moved, I live in Sweden and the weather is rain and windy, we had a new storm (Helga) yesterday.

[quote name='bjofal' timestamp='1449299699' post='12683162']
[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1449285595' post='12682662']
[quote name='bjofal' timestamp='1449215603' post='12678858']
There has been so many threads about Tiger stepping.
I play TT GS70 regular in my irons and read that I should go up one flex and take a 8-iron shaft and just put that in and but trim! I even read somwhere that you could go up in shaft weight, so I now have TT GS80 stiff 8-iron shaft in my wedges.
It is really confusing, but I suppose you have to find the right threads from leading "gurus"!
[/quote]

You got it right, the#8 iron trick is using a #8 iron shaft (DG) from a flex stronger (S300 irons, X100 #8 iron shaft for wedge, if possible X200 or X300 for added weight), but the question from Raidersgolf99 was not about that, but using a #7 or #8 from the same shafts as his irons, so it was only a wedge shaft question in general, and has nothing to do with the "8 iron spinner trick or Tiger stepping(tip trim of taper tip shafts).

Mixing TT GS shafts is common, and the latest set ive made using GS for wedge has 84 grams descending weight R flex graphite in irons 5-9.. GS85 S 8# as PW and GW, and GS 95 S #8 shafts for SW and LW. Its made with 3/8 length difference from 5 to LW, MOI matched, so i think i made most combinations possible when we talk wedge and TT shafts and wedges.
[/quote]

Thanks Howard,
I also have a Ping i20 that I have assembled with Steelfiber i70 CW a-flex (plays like r-flex), I now play the new Ping Glide wedges (50, 54 & 58) with the CFS wedge shaft, pretty heavy, 118g, could I put my GS95 S 8-iron shaft in these heads an keep the swingweight at D2, D3 & D4?
Are you still in Dennmark or have you moved, I live in Sweden and the weather is rain and windy, we had a new storm (Helga) yesterday.
[/quote]

i dont want to make any guestimates on swing weight, and building a new club to a "value" decided before tested is not a good idea.
We feel both total weight and "balance" or how the weight is distributed on the actual club, so if we just follow the DG rule 9 grams shaft weight is 1 SW point for the sake of example, you will understand better.

Going from 118 to 95 ram uncut weight is just above 2 SW points and for wedges thats like 5 grams needed as tip weight to replace the same value, but going down more than 20 grams in shaft weight, and adding 5 grams, make a hole different feel of weight and balance than where you came from, so the old value means nothing.

The only time SW value as number is useful is when we copy all specs from one club to another, but if lengt or shaft or head weight is different, we cant duplicate the value and get there....does not work like that, so replace what ever tip weight there was, make a test build, tweak with lead tape if needed, and then you can build the final club, using a gram scale only.(if you add lead tape the same position as a tip weight ends up, in the hosel). Then you can forget all about SW value if you dont have a SW scale for the job, and its really not needed either here.

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1448401817' post='12641924']

Be aware of what we really do by tip trim that #9 iron shaft, it is to make a substitute for that PW shaft TT dont make anymore, but back in year 2000 they did, so there was no need to do this back then i 2000. Im not sure when TT stopped offering this shaft as a regular option, but tip trimming could not have been a subject before that shaft was withdrawn from the marked, but i could be wrong.[/quote]

So 8-iron spinner is a 37.5" in DG X100?

The taper shaft length offerings between models, brands and years has me confused.

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1449203341' post='12678546']
[quote name='Raidersgolf99' timestamp='1449112154' post='12674254']
Howard, please offer your thoughts if you don't mind.

I play Baby Blades with SteelFiber i110 stiff shafts straight in. And they are perfect. Flight, spin, distance; when I'm on, they are perfect.

I want to use Rory's method, 'softer shaft, softer swing' with my wedges. I play Miura C Grinds. I'm thinking about sticking with the i110 SteelFiber, but rather than going down to a regular, keeping with a stiff and soft stepping with either an 8 iron or 7 iron shaft.

Thoughts?

Thank you!!
[/quote]

im not familiar with steelfiber here, but i guess PW is the shortest/strongest, and if we count 3 irons as 1 flex (SSx3), then using a 7 iron shaft is 1 flex softer.
You also have to consider BBGM from irons to wedge. Its most likely higher in your wedges, making them to play softer to start with, plus we weaken flex by more head weight/sw value in wedges. if the shaft works good for irons, then using a 7 iron shaft might give a flight higher than you like, depending on how you play that club, so dont over do this. Dynamic Gold players often just use the #9 iron all the way, since its SS1 and BBGM plus SW takes some flex off too, so try to find the golden midway that would make it right for you.
[/quote]

Howard,

Thanks for the response.

Essentially I'm trying to soften the flex a touch and lower the flight a touch.

The user and all related content has been deleted.

Howard is a wealth of information. Thank you Howard!!

That being said, I did the 8 iron trick, I play S300 in my irons and put a 8 iron x100 in my wedges and I absolutely love it!!! It made a world of difference especially on 3/4 shots.

What the fuck?