Different Swing Models/Philosophies

Intrigued to know what the different swing instruction theories/methodologies/styles are that instructors are using or have used in the past. Please help me complete this list... (in places we can just put the instructor's name down if they're known for the/a style)

Golf Machine

Morad

Stack & Tilt

A-Swing

X factor

...

...

etc.

Here's some:

One Plane Swing

Rotary Swing

Channel Lock Swing

Ballard Swing

DOCF Swing

C-Motion Swing

Efficient Swing

Golf-O-Metrics Swing

There are plenty names for various swing methods but almost all swing methods involve swinging and turning components, the swinging of the club with the hands and arms and the turning of the body. In all methods the swinging elements and turning elements much be in sync to produce consistent good shots. One way to dis-aggregate methods is by asking whether the turning elements produce the swinging elements, or are the turning elements a reaction to the swinging of the club. Both approaches can work very well but it is best not to try to combing the two.

Steve

> @juststeve said:

> There are plenty names for various swing methods but almost all swing methods involve swinging and turning components, the swinging of the club with the hands and arms and the turning of the body. In all methods the swinging elements and turning elements much be in sync to produce consistent good shots. One way to dis-aggregate methods is by asking whether the turning elements produce the swinging elements, or are the turning elements a reaction to the swinging of the club. Both approaches can work very well but it is best not to try to combing the two.

>

> Steve

Ok, but I guess what I'm trying to understand is the foundational concepts, understanding, research, critical thinking and decision process the best coaches in the world use to filter all of these swing 'models' so that they create a learning environment and concepts specifically for their elite level player to improve. I guess the way that a Chris Como, Jamie Mulligan, Scott Cowx etc. are seen as holistic coaches, but they're working off a deep understanding of various models and deciding which they align with most, formulating their own unique twist and then how to teach those concepts based on each student's need. But first, I need to understand/know all the models out there, because I'm a bit ignorant about the breadth/depth of models.

> @creasy54 said:

> > @juststeve said:

> > There are plenty names for various swing methods but almost all swing methods involve swinging and turning components, the swinging of the club with the hands and arms and the turning of the body. In all methods the swinging elements and turning elements much be in sync to produce consistent good shots. One way to dis-aggregate methods is by asking whether the turning elements produce the swinging elements, or are the turning elements a reaction to the swinging of the club. Both approaches can work very well but it is best not to try to combing the two.

> >

> > Steve

>

> Ok, but I guess what I'm trying to understand is the foundational concepts, understanding, research, critical thinking and decision process the best coaches in the world use to filter all of these swing 'models' so that they create a learning environment and concepts specifically for their elite level player to improve. I guess the way that a Chris Como, Jamie Mulligan, Scott Cowx etc. are seen as holistic coaches, but they're working off a deep understanding of various models and deciding which they align with most, formulating their own unique twist and then how to teach those concepts based on each student's need. But first, I need to understand/know all the models out there, because I'm a bit ignorant about the breadth/depth of models.

I've studied the models for a long time and have come to the conclusion that everyone pretty much teaches the same thing but in a different way because everyone's "feels" are different and hard to translate to someone else. the end goals are pretty much the same and fundamentals are for the lack of a better term, fundamental.

> @musclefront said:

> > @creasy54 said:

> > > @juststeve said:

> > > There are plenty names for various swing methods but almost all swing methods involve swinging and turning components, the swinging of the club with the hands and arms and the turning of the body. In all methods the swinging elements and turning elements much be in sync to produce consistent good shots. One way to dis-aggregate methods is by asking whether the turning elements produce the swinging elements, or are the turning elements a reaction to the swinging of the club. Both approaches can work very well but it is best not to try to combing the two.

> > >

> > > Steve

> >

> > Ok, but I guess what I'm trying to understand is the foundational concepts, understanding, research, critical thinking and decision process the best coaches in the world use to filter all of these swing 'models' so that they create a learning environment and concepts specifically for their elite level player to improve. I guess the way that a Chris Como, Jamie Mulligan, Scott Cowx etc. are seen as holistic coaches, but they're working off a deep understanding of various models and deciding which they align with most, formulating their own unique twist and then how to teach those concepts based on each student's need. But first, I need to understand/know all the models out there, because I'm a bit ignorant about the breadth/depth of models.

>

> I've studied the models for a long time and have come to the conclusion that everyone pretty much teaches the same thing but in a different way because everyone's "feels" are different and hard to translate to someone else. the end goals are pretty much the same and fundamentals are for the lack of a better term, fundamental.

What do you think the 'same things' are that everyone teaches, if you don't mind elaborating? And what do you consider fundamentals? Because I know at one stage grip was seen as a fundamental but it's not anymore...

start from impact - good impact position - would / should be about the same .

How you get there that's the issue

lol, this looks like fun

> @"Ping's Duck" said:

> Here's some:

> One Plane Swing

> Rotary Swing

> Channel Lock Swing

> Ballard Swing

> DOCF Swing

> C-Motion Swing

> Efficient Swing

> Golf-O-Metrics Swing

>

>

You forgot Swing your Own Swing

> @creasy54 said:

> > @musclefront said:

> > > @creasy54 said:

> > > > @juststeve said:

> > > > There are plenty names for various swing methods but almost all swing methods involve swinging and turning components, the swinging of the club with the hands and arms and the turning of the body. In all methods the swinging elements and turning elements much be in sync to produce consistent good shots. One way to dis-aggregate methods is by asking whether the turning elements produce the swinging elements, or are the turning elements a reaction to the swinging of the club. Both approaches can work very well but it is best not to try to combing the two.

> > > >

> > > > Steve

> > >

> > > Ok, but I guess what I'm trying to understand is the foundational concepts, understanding, research, critical thinking and decision process the best coaches in the world use to filter all of these swing 'models' so that they create a learning environment and concepts specifically for their elite level player to improve. I guess the way that a Chris Como, Jamie Mulligan, Scott Cowx etc. are seen as holistic coaches, but they're working off a deep understanding of various models and deciding which they align with most, formulating their own unique twist and then how to teach those concepts based on each student's need. But first, I need to understand/know all the models out there, because I'm a bit ignorant about the breadth/depth of models.

> >

> > I've studied the models for a long time and have come to the conclusion that everyone pretty much teaches the same thing but in a different way because everyone's "feels" are different and hard to translate to someone else. the end goals are pretty much the same and fundamentals are for the lack of a better term, fundamental.

>

> What do you think the 'same things' are that everyone teaches, if you don't mind elaborating? And what do you consider fundamentals? Because I know at one stage grip was seen as a fundamental but it's not anymore...

grip is absolutely a fundamental, types of grip aren't as everyone's body is different.

You guys are missing 2 of the best out there

RBM Golf

Wax Golf

Don’t forget the ground-breaking “A swing” and square-to-square methods.

> @Krt22 said:

> You guys are missing 2 of the best out there

>

> RBM Golf

>

> Wax Golf

I prefer the 747 and stack and jilt from CPG

Seems to me that the guys that look at the best swings in detail, with the tools that measure everything - pressure, body motion, club motion, ball flight.... that these guys are all converging on very similar ideas.

> @ProGoLow said:

> @creasy54 - The different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach are really nothing more than the individualistic golf swings you will see from different individuals. What works for one person may, or may not, work for another based on a person's dexterity, body parts (arms, legs, torso) dimensions, natural body coordination, natural balance, what part of their body is most flexible and the strongest, eye dominance, fast twitch muscles, hand-eye coordination, etc., etc. Also, how a person visualizes what he/she is doing in their swing versus what they are actually doing. This is why most tour pros have very different and unique looking golf swings in which their individual swing can often be recognized from many hundreds of yards away.

>

> During a golf swing the golfer must have the ability to compress the golf ball - and the more, the better! This is accomplished with velocity and leverage. One golfer may be able to swing a golf club faster using body rotation from strong legs and core, while another golfer may be better off using his upper body. One golfer may be able to create far more leverage using primarily his right side, while another may be better off using his left side, or both sides equally. One golfer may create early extension attempting to use the wrong side of his body because his instructor teaches that to all his students. Some golfer's pivot more distinctly on the right leg - others the left leg. Some golfers unwind and hang back more on the right leg through the ball (e.g. Ian Poulter) while others drive hard into their lead leg and post up. Some have minimal hip turn on the backswing where others pivot their hips greatly on the backswing - because they found that if they didn't they would come over the top. What all this means is that the different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach golfers is an ****-backwards way of looking at what the golfer needs. It should be the Butch Harmon teaching method - Don't change the basic way that the golfer swings the club. It is the golfer that must first figure out how he/she is best able to produce velocity and create leverage. Then, if they want to fine tune their golf swing find an instructor that will work with the golfer to improve their golf swing based on his/her individualistic and unique swing - instead of trying to get the student to swing the club a certain way that does not work for them. It's one thing to teach basic one-size-fits-all fundamentals, but when it comes to having a golf swing that produces velocity and leverage that is where teaching different swing theories/methodologies/styles usually does far more harm than good.

>

> There are a thousand-and-one different ways to swing a golf club from the standpoint of different swing theories/methodologies/styles. It's best to learn how to swing a golf club when you are a child, and if you really get the game in your blood you'll figure out how best for your body to produce velocity and leverage. Then, as you grow and get stronger you will already have learned how to swing effectively, and just better as you get stronger. The best advice you will ever get is - 'Swing your swing' as Arnie used to say. It's true! We would have never heard of Arnold Palmer if his father tried to teach Arnie to swing like Bobby Jones or Gene Littler. We would have never heard of Lee Trevino if an instructor tried to teach Lee to swing like Ernie Els or Johnny Miller. And we would have never heard of Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, J.B. Holmes, Ricky Barnes, Ryan Palmer, Matt Kuchar...you get the picture.

>

> Find out what it takes for you (as a unique individual unlike any other) to produce your personal best velocity and leverage. Dig it out of the dirt as they say.

Everyone says “swing your swing”, but literally no one teaches that. I’ve never met a single PGA professional who was able to guide a player thru that kind of self discovery. Every one of them is a mechanic.

More:

Right Sided Swing

Real Swing Golf

5 Simple Keys Swing

Spiral Golf Swing

Swing the Club Head

Arm Swing Illusion Swing

Moe Norman Natural Swing

Gravity Golf Swing

A J Bonar Golf Swing

Count Yogi Golf Swing

Swing the Handle Golf Swing

> @wmblake2000 said:

> Seems to me that the guys that look at the best swings in detail, with the tools that measure everything - pressure, body motion, club motion, ball flight.... that these guys are all converging on very similar ideas

Yep. Which is basically a swing driven by aggressive rotation with no arm and hand manipulation and a stable club face and mostly centered pelvis.

The only fundamental difference between guys is if they teach a more lower body focus or an upper body focus when it comes to pivot/rotation. And some very small differences in grip and setup preferences

> @elthrill said:

> > @wmblake2000 said:

> > Seems to me that the guys that look at the best swings in detail, with the tools that measure everything - pressure, body motion, club motion, ball flight.... that these guys are all converging on very similar ideas

>

> Yep. Which is basically a swing driven by aggressive rotation with no arm and hand manipulation and a stable club face and mostly centered pelvis.

>

> The only fundamental difference between guys is if they teach a more lower body focus or an upper body focus when it comes to pivot/rotation. And some very small differences in grip and setup preferences

>

>

Little more involved than that if not separating, by way of emphasis, an upper body focus over a lower body focus, or even defining what are the best swings for analysis. The entire cat jumps.

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @ProGoLow said:

> > @creasy54 - The different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach are really nothing more than the individualistic golf swings you will see from different individuals. What works for one person may, or may not, work for another based on a person's dexterity, body parts (arms, legs, torso) dimensions, natural body coordination, natural balance, what part of their body is most flexible and the strongest, eye dominance, fast twitch muscles, hand-eye coordination, etc., etc. Also, how a person visualizes what he/she is doing in their swing versus what they are actually doing. This is why most tour pros have very different and unique looking golf swings in which their individual swing can often be recognized from many hundreds of yards away.

> >

> > During a golf swing the golfer must have the ability to compress the golf ball - and the more, the better! This is accomplished with velocity and leverage. One golfer may be able to swing a golf club faster using body rotation from strong legs and core, while another golfer may be better off using his upper body. One golfer may be able to create far more leverage using primarily his right side, while another may be better off using his left side, or both sides equally. One golfer may create early extension attempting to use the wrong side of his body because his instructor teaches that to all his students. Some golfer's pivot more distinctly on the right leg - others the left leg. Some golfers unwind and hang back more on the right leg through the ball (e.g. Ian Poulter) while others drive hard into their lead leg and post up. Some have minimal hip turn on the backswing where others pivot their hips greatly on the backswing - because they found that if they didn't they would come over the top. What all this means is that the different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach golfers is an ****-backwards way of looking at what the golfer needs. It should be the Butch Harmon teaching method - Don't change the basic way that the golfer swings the club. It is the golfer that must first figure out how he/she is best able to produce velocity and create leverage. Then, if they want to fine tune their golf swing find an instructor that will work with the golfer to improve their golf swing based on his/her individualistic and unique swing - instead of trying to get the student to swing the club a certain way that does not work for them. It's one thing to teach basic one-size-fits-all fundamentals, but when it comes to having a golf swing that produces velocity and leverage that is where teaching different swing theories/methodologies/styles usually does far more harm than good.

> >

> > There are a thousand-and-one different ways to swing a golf club from the standpoint of different swing theories/methodologies/styles. It's best to learn how to swing a golf club when you are a child, and if you really get the game in your blood you'll figure out how best for your body to produce velocity and leverage. Then, as you grow and get stronger you will already have learned how to swing effectively, and just better as you get stronger. The best advice you will ever get is - 'Swing your swing' as Arnie used to say. It's true! We would have never heard of Arnold Palmer if his father tried to teach Arnie to swing like Bobby Jones or Gene Littler. We would have never heard of Lee Trevino if an instructor tried to teach Lee to swing like Ernie Els or Johnny Miller. And we would have never heard of Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, J.B. Holmes, Ricky Barnes, Ryan Palmer, Matt Kuchar...you get the picture.

> >

> > Find out what it takes for you (as a unique individual unlike any other) to produce your personal best velocity and leverage. Dig it out of the dirt as they say.

>

> Everyone says “swing your swing”, but literally no one teaches that. I’ve never met a single PGA professional who was able to guide a player thru that kind of self discovery. Every one of them is a mechanic.

Because most people's swing's are trash, if they weren't, they would not be seeking help from an instructor.

> @MountainGoat said:

> > @ProGoLow said:

> > @creasy54 - The different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach are really nothing more than the individualistic golf swings you will see from different individuals. What works for one person may, or may not, work for another based on a person's dexterity, body parts (arms, legs, torso) dimensions, natural body coordination, natural balance, what part of their body is most flexible and the strongest, eye dominance, fast twitch muscles, hand-eye coordination, etc., etc. Also, how a person visualizes what he/she is doing in their swing versus what they are actually doing. This is why most tour pros have very different and unique looking golf swings in which their individual swing can often be recognized from many hundreds of yards away.

> >

> > During a golf swing the golfer must have the ability to compress the golf ball - and the more, the better! This is accomplished with velocity and leverage. One golfer may be able to swing a golf club faster using body rotation from strong legs and core, while another golfer may be better off using his upper body. One golfer may be able to create far more leverage using primarily his right side, while another may be better off using his left side, or both sides equally. One golfer may create early extension attempting to use the wrong side of his body because his instructor teaches that to all his students. Some golfer's pivot more distinctly on the right leg - others the left leg. Some golfers unwind and hang back more on the right leg through the ball (e.g. Ian Poulter) while others drive hard into their lead leg and post up. Some have minimal hip turn on the backswing where others pivot their hips greatly on the backswing - because they found that if they didn't they would come over the top. What all this means is that the different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach golfers is an ****-backwards way of looking at what the golfer needs. It should be the Butch Harmon teaching method - Don't change the basic way that the golfer swings the club. It is the golfer that must first figure out how he/she is best able to produce velocity and create leverage. Then, if they want to fine tune their golf swing find an instructor that will work with the golfer to improve their golf swing based on his/her individualistic and unique swing - instead of trying to get the student to swing the club a certain way that does not work for them. It's one thing to teach basic one-size-fits-all fundamentals, but when it comes to having a golf swing that produces velocity and leverage that is where teaching different swing theories/methodologies/styles usually does far more harm than good.

> >

> > There are a thousand-and-one different ways to swing a golf club from the standpoint of different swing theories/methodologies/styles. It's best to learn how to swing a golf club when you are a child, and if you really get the game in your blood you'll figure out how best for your body to produce velocity and leverage. Then, as you grow and get stronger you will already have learned how to swing effectively, and just better as you get stronger. The best advice you will ever get is - 'Swing your swing' as Arnie used to say. It's true! We would have never heard of Arnold Palmer if his father tried to teach Arnie to swing like Bobby Jones or Gene Littler. We would have never heard of Lee Trevino if an instructor tried to teach Lee to swing like Ernie Els or Johnny Miller. And we would have never heard of Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, J.B. Holmes, Ricky Barnes, Ryan Palmer, Matt Kuchar...you get the picture.

> >

> > Find out what it takes for you (as a unique individual unlike any other) to produce your personal best velocity and leverage. Dig it out of the dirt as they say.

>

> Everyone says “swing your swing”, but literally no one teaches that. I’ve never met a single PGA professional who was able to guide a player thru that kind of self discovery. Every one of them is a mechanic.

I asked Mr. Palmer what he meant by that. “I meant when you get to the course that day, that’s the swing you have, I didn’t mean keep your crappy swing.”

> @Krt22 said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @ProGoLow said:

> > > @creasy54 - The different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach are really nothing more than the individualistic golf swings you will see from different individuals. What works for one person may, or may not, work for another based on a person's dexterity, body parts (arms, legs, torso) dimensions, natural body coordination, natural balance, what part of their body is most flexible and the strongest, eye dominance, fast twitch muscles, hand-eye coordination, etc., etc. Also, how a person visualizes what he/she is doing in their swing versus what they are actually doing. This is why most tour pros have very different and unique looking golf swings in which their individual swing can often be recognized from many hundreds of yards away.

> > >

> > > During a golf swing the golfer must have the ability to compress the golf ball - and the more, the better! This is accomplished with velocity and leverage. One golfer may be able to swing a golf club faster using body rotation from strong legs and core, while another golfer may be better off using his upper body. One golfer may be able to create far more leverage using primarily his right side, while another may be better off using his left side, or both sides equally. One golfer may create early extension attempting to use the wrong side of his body because his instructor teaches that to all his students. Some golfer's pivot more distinctly on the right leg - others the left leg. Some golfers unwind and hang back more on the right leg through the ball (e.g. Ian Poulter) while others drive hard into their lead leg and post up. Some have minimal hip turn on the backswing where others pivot their hips greatly on the backswing - because they found that if they didn't they would come over the top. What all this means is that the different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach golfers is an ****-backwards way of looking at what the golfer needs. It should be the Butch Harmon teaching method - Don't change the basic way that the golfer swings the club. It is the golfer that must first figure out how he/she is best able to produce velocity and create leverage. Then, if they want to fine tune their golf swing find an instructor that will work with the golfer to improve their golf swing based on his/her individualistic and unique swing - instead of trying to get the student to swing the club a certain way that does not work for them. It's one thing to teach basic one-size-fits-all fundamentals, but when it comes to having a golf swing that produces velocity and leverage that is where teaching different swing theories/methodologies/styles usually does far more harm than good.

> > >

> > > There are a thousand-and-one different ways to swing a golf club from the standpoint of different swing theories/methodologies/styles. It's best to learn how to swing a golf club when you are a child, and if you really get the game in your blood you'll figure out how best for your body to produce velocity and leverage. Then, as you grow and get stronger you will already have learned how to swing effectively, and just better as you get stronger. The best advice you will ever get is - 'Swing your swing' as Arnie used to say. It's true! We would have never heard of Arnold Palmer if his father tried to teach Arnie to swing like Bobby Jones or Gene Littler. We would have never heard of Lee Trevino if an instructor tried to teach Lee to swing like Ernie Els or Johnny Miller. And we would have never heard of Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, J.B. Holmes, Ricky Barnes, Ryan Palmer, Matt Kuchar...you get the picture.

> > >

> > > Find out what it takes for you (as a unique individual unlike any other) to produce your personal best velocity and leverage. Dig it out of the dirt as they say.

> >

> > Everyone says “swing your swing”, but literally no one teaches that. I’ve never met a single PGA professional who was able to guide a player thru that kind of self discovery. Every one of them is a mechanic.

>

> Because most people's swing's are trash, if they weren't, they would not be seeking help from an instructor.

yea i always thought it odd that if all the PGA pros besides bubba watson use instructors I probably should too. if anything it speeds up your learning process by pointing out why your ball does what it does and how to try and fix it

The avg pga pro has to make their living teaching folks who have barely picked up a club or are so terrible that just getting a ball airborn is a miracle. They generally have to start with some basics just to give a player a chance. Ive watched thousands of lessons. And trust me,swing your swing aint an option for most who come to the lesson tee at the average club in america. Think 55 yr old woman with no experience. But most pros do a pretty nice job of allowing a player to swing their swing if they have anything to work with and making the least invasive changes possible in the beginning.

> @chigolfer1 said:

> > @"Ping's Duck" said:

> > Here's some:

> > One Plane Swing

> > Rotary Swing

> > Channel Lock Swing

> > Ballard Swing

> > DOCF Swing

> > C-Motion Swing

> > Efficient Swing

> > Golf-O-Metrics Swing

> >

> >

>

> You forgot Swing your Own Swing

And George Gankas

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> I asked Mr. Palmer what he meant by that. “I meant when you get to the course that day, that’s the swing you have, I didn’t mean keep your crappy swing.”

>

Finally, that makes sense as to what he meant...

Folks, for the record, I was joking about Swing your Own Swing swing.

> @MonteScheinblum said:

> > @MountainGoat said:

> > > @ProGoLow said:

> > > @creasy54 - The different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach are really nothing more than the individualistic golf swings you will see from different individuals. What works for one person may, or may not, work for another based on a person's dexterity, body parts (arms, legs, torso) dimensions, natural body coordination, natural balance, what part of their body is most flexible and the strongest, eye dominance, fast twitch muscles, hand-eye coordination, etc., etc. Also, how a person visualizes what he/she is doing in their swing versus what they are actually doing. This is why most tour pros have very different and unique looking golf swings in which their individual swing can often be recognized from many hundreds of yards away.

> > >

> > > During a golf swing the golfer must have the ability to compress the golf ball - and the more, the better! This is accomplished with velocity and leverage. One golfer may be able to swing a golf club faster using body rotation from strong legs and core, while another golfer may be better off using his upper body. One golfer may be able to create far more leverage using primarily his right side, while another may be better off using his left side, or both sides equally. One golfer may create early extension attempting to use the wrong side of his body because his instructor teaches that to all his students. Some golfer's pivot more distinctly on the right leg - others the left leg. Some golfers unwind and hang back more on the right leg through the ball (e.g. Ian Poulter) while others drive hard into their lead leg and post up. Some have minimal hip turn on the backswing where others pivot their hips greatly on the backswing - because they found that if they didn't they would come over the top. What all this means is that the different swing theories/methodologies/styles that instructors teach golfers is an ****-backwards way of looking at what the golfer needs. It should be the Butch Harmon teaching method - Don't change the basic way that the golfer swings the club. It is the golfer that must first figure out how he/she is best able to produce velocity and create leverage. Then, if they want to fine tune their golf swing find an instructor that will work with the golfer to improve their golf swing based on his/her individualistic and unique swing - instead of trying to get the student to swing the club a certain way that does not work for them. It's one thing to teach basic one-size-fits-all fundamentals, but when it comes to having a golf swing that produces velocity and leverage that is where teaching different swing theories/methodologies/styles usually does far more harm than good.

> > >

> > > There are a thousand-and-one different ways to swing a golf club from the standpoint of different swing theories/methodologies/styles. It's best to learn how to swing a golf club when you are a child, and if you really get the game in your blood you'll figure out how best for your body to produce velocity and leverage. Then, as you grow and get stronger you will already have learned how to swing effectively, and just better as you get stronger. The best advice you will ever get is - 'Swing your swing' as Arnie used to say. It's true! We would have never heard of Arnold Palmer if his father tried to teach Arnie to swing like Bobby Jones or Gene Littler. We would have never heard of Lee Trevino if an instructor tried to teach Lee to swing like Ernie Els or Johnny Miller. And we would have never heard of Dustin Johnson, Bubba Watson, J.B. Holmes, Ricky Barnes, Ryan Palmer, Matt Kuchar...you get the picture.

> > >

> > > Find out what it takes for you (as a unique individual unlike any other) to produce your personal best velocity and leverage. Dig it out of the dirt as they say.

> >

> > Everyone says “swing your swing”, but literally no one teaches that. I’ve never met a single PGA professional who was able to guide a player thru that kind of self discovery. Every one of them is a mechanic.

>

> I asked Mr. Palmer what he meant by that. “I meant when you get to the course that day, that’s the swing you have, I didn’t mean keep your crappy swing.”

>

Now you tell me. :)

> @ProGoLow said:

> **“Swing your swing,” Palmer said. “Not some idea of a swing. Not a swing you saw on TV. Not that swing you wish you had. No, swing your swing. Capable of greatness. Prized only by you. Perfect in its imperfection. Swing your swing. I know I did.”**

>

> https://www.golf.com/instruction/2019/05/29/arnold-palmer-quote-swing-your-swing/

....and continue to not get better.

> @musclefront said:

> > @ProGoLow said:

> > **“Swing your swing,” Palmer said. “Not some idea of a swing. Not a swing you saw on TV. Not that swing you wish you had. No, swing your swing. Capable of greatness. Prized only by you. Perfect in its imperfection. Swing your swing. I know I did.”**

> >

> > https://www.golf.com/instruction/2019/05/29/arnold-palmer-quote-swing-your-swing/

>

> ....and continue to not get better.

>

I'm a 20, 66 years old,this is my 8th year golfing. Near the end of last year I decided to enjoy golfing and not spend so much time trying to improve (whatever that means). What I have found this year is that my scores are not so broad. Worst 9hole (par 36) is 51, best is a 45. On my regular par 68 course, a 39 and a 45. So far, not as many triples and a few more pars. Even a birdie or two.

I'm just enjoying hitting the ball. I'm starting to think that by not constantly tweaking this and that, I'm learning to use my swing.

> @ProGoLow said:

> > @musclefront said:

> > > @ProGoLow said:

> > > **“Swing your swing,” Palmer said. “Not some idea of a swing. Not a swing you saw on TV. Not that swing you wish you had. No, swing your swing. Capable of greatness. Prized only by you. Perfect in its imperfection. Swing your swing. I know I did.”**

> > >

> > > https://www.golf.com/instruction/2019/05/29/arnold-palmer-quote-swing-your-swing/

> >

> > ....and continue to not get better.

> >

>

> It's a matter of the golfer trying different ways (different things) on his own to see what the results are and if it produces better results. You don't need an instructor to go through a long list of things to try. Jack Nicklaus learned to swing a club by purposely swinging out-of-control to learn about the golf swing. The great Ben Hogan even said; "_Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing_." One of the best things a golfer searching for his best swing can do is to make changes to what they thought was correct to learn what makes 'your' swing work - not a swing you saw on TV, not some idea of a swing, not a swing your instructor thinks you should have because he/she is not you! You certainly are not going to have an instructor tell you to swing one particular way (or even thirty different ways) and suddenly you will have a golf swing that previously you could only dream of having. It just doesn't work that way. The trial and error work is best done on your own (just like Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus did it) assuming you already fully understand the basic fundamentals of the golf swing.

>

> You can be **** sure that Jordan Spieth was not told by his instructor, Cameron McCormick, to not allow his lead arm to fold post impact, which gives him the appearance of having a chicken wing. Jordan determined long ago all by himself as a junior that this method was best for him. Can you imagine if an instructor demanded that Spieth swing the instructors way? We almost certainly would never have heard of Jordan Spieth. We could name many dozens of people that have different looking golf swings - because they found on their own what worked best for them. NBA and college basketball players use different methods/techniques to shoot free throws. You can be assured those guys tried all sorts of different methods on their own to find their best results. They were not coached/instructed to shoot free throws a particular way. The same goes for many other sports. Each and every one of the stars we know today found their own method by themselves. The fine-tuning of the golf swing from an instructor comes afterward. That is what made Butch Harmon such a sought after swing coach - he knows better than to change someone's golf swing, unlike David Leadbetter and Hank Haney are prone to do. Give a kid instructions on the fundamentals of the golf swing and (if he really loves the game) he will find his best method to swing the golf club all be himself. Adults would be best served by this same advice.

Except Butch has changed players swings, and some quite drastically. Plenty of guys have literally changed their lives and careers by changing their swings.

And many NBA players actually have shooting coach and are instructed how to shoot and many have changed their shooting motions.

“The same goes for many other sports. Each and every one of the stars we know today found their own method by themselves.” This is laughably inaccurate

> @ProGoLow said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > > @ProGoLow said:

> > > > @musclefront said:

> > > > > @ProGoLow said:

> > > > > **“Swing your swing,” Palmer said. “Not some idea of a swing. Not a swing you saw on TV. Not that swing you wish you had. No, swing your swing. Capable of greatness. Prized only by you. Perfect in its imperfection. Swing your swing. I know I did.”**

> > > > >

> > > > > https://www.golf.com/instruction/2019/05/29/arnold-palmer-quote-swing-your-swing/

> > > >

> > > > ....and continue to not get better.

> > > >

> > >

> > > It's a matter of the golfer trying different ways (different things) on his own to see what the results are and if it produces better results. You don't need an instructor to go through a long list of things to try. Jack Nicklaus learned to swing a club by purposely swinging out-of-control to learn about the golf swing. The great Ben Hogan even said; "_Reverse every natural instinct and do the opposite of what you are inclined to do, and you will probably come very close to having a perfect golf swing_." One of the best things a golfer searching for his best swing can do is to make changes to what they thought was correct to learn what makes 'your' swing work - not a swing you saw on TV, not some idea of a swing, not a swing your instructor thinks you should have because he/she is not you! You certainly are not going to have an instructor tell you to swing one particular way (or even thirty different ways) and suddenly you will have a golf swing that previously you could only dream of having. It just doesn't work that way. The trial and error work is best done on your own (just like Hogan, Palmer and Nicklaus did it) assuming you already fully understand the basic fundamentals of the golf swing.

> > >

> > > You can be **** sure that Jordan Spieth was not told by his instructor, Cameron McCormick, to not allow his lead arm to fold post impact, which gives him the appearance of having a chicken wing. Jordan determined long ago all by himself as a junior that this method was best for him. Can you imagine if an instructor demanded that Spieth swing the instructors way? We almost certainly would never have heard of Jordan Spieth. We could name many dozens of people that have different looking golf swings - because they found on their own what worked best for them. NBA and college basketball players use different methods/techniques to shoot free throws. You can be assured those guys tried all sorts of different methods on their own to find their best results. They were not coached/instructed to shoot free throws a particular way. The same goes for many other sports. Each and every one of the stars we know today found their own method by themselves. The fine-tuning of the golf swing from an instructor comes afterward. That is what made Butch Harmon such a sought after swing coach - he knows better than to change someone's golf swing, unlike David Leadbetter and Hank Haney are prone to do. Give a kid instructions on the fundamentals of the golf swing and (if he really loves the game) he will find his best method to swing the golf club all be himself. Adults would be best served by this same advice.

> >

> > Except Butch has changed players swings, and some quite drastically. Plenty of guys have literally changed their lives and careers by changing their swings.

> >

> > And many NBA players actually have shooting coach and are instructed how to shoot and many have changed their shooting motions.

> >

> > “The same goes for many other sports. **Each and every one of the stars we know today found their own method by themselves.**” This is laughably inaccurate

>

> Not inaccurate at all. There is not a current tour player (today) that didn't begin playing golf when they were just a kid. As a kid they may have been given instructions on the bare fundamentals of the golf swing, but little more. They were told to go play, hit balls, and have fun. They found their own method by themselves. They developed their golf swings themselves by finding what method/technique worked for them. Then, after they grew and were competitive playing in tournaments is when they sometimes sought the help of an elite instructor to fine-tune their golf swing and golf game. There are far more top amateur golfers and tour pros that have had their swing wrecked by instructors, than improved. It is the rare individual that has acquired a good golf swing themselves to become a good player that has had their golf swing changed (re-worked) and become better. You may find a few tour pros (like Faldo, Woods and Kuchar) that were able to change the swing they made for themselves and remain competitive, but most are never heard from again - ruined by their quest for improvement and their swing coach's instructions.

>

> Tell me - what would you do with Hunter Mahan's swing if he came to you? Would you try to change Hunter's golf swing like Chris O'Connell is trying to do? Or, would you seek to have him swing like he did as a topnotch junior playing AJGA tournaments which is the same as he did in his early years on the PGA tour? I'll be anxious to learn what you would tell him if he came to you and asked you what you would do!

Again I’d say you’re wrong. I’m on tour quite a bit and know a lot of PGA Tour players. And many don’t follow your timeline. Plenty worked with instructors from a young age and did not wait until they were competitive golfers to seek help. I’ve also helped many tour players change their swings and change their career. Same goes for juniors and college players.

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Can post plenty of others. Hunter changed his swing quite a bit throughout his career, I was present for some of it. I can’t say what I’d do without talking to Hunter. Some guys can’t do what they used to do anymore or have totally lost faith in what they did. The overwhelming majority on tour actively work with coaches and many have and are changing their swings. To say that “most” tour players who have sought improvement through instruction have never been heard from again is just flat out inaccurate.