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Can't seem to find a PGA Pro who can fix this in my swing.... HELP

 WhatWouldPhilDo ·  
WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
Joined:  edited May 29, 2020 1:16pm in Instruction & Academy #1

I have talked to multiple PGA Pros about my swing and I haven't had one that could fix my overswing/across the line position..

One pro told me I need extension in my right arm. I have done this and while it moves the club a little more away from my head, it is still pointed across the line and wants to overswing.

Another pro told me I need to point the club to left field. When I do this, the club goes completely flat as if it were a driver and it still wants to work back to a "pointed across the line" look.

Another pro told me to take it way outside the plane and do it extremely slowly. I can do that, but it didn't fix the issue.

I look at my swing and think if I stop my shoulder turn earlier, my position would be just fine. It appears my trail shoulder dips towards the target which causes my arms to only naturally keep working around the body causing me to lose extension and force the club to an across the line position.

The problem is, I don't know how to stop turning my shoulders earlier. Losing flex in right leg for a better coil only makes it worse.

I have tried stopping when shoulder hits the chin, but its nearly impossible to try to stop turning everything the second your shoulder hits the chin. It should be automatic in theory if everything is in sync. Pro golfers and even many amateurs seem to swing so hard and yet they don't seem to have this issue. Is it flexibility causing this? Is it something in my take away? Are my shoulders turning too quickly in swing. I need help! Willing to practice anything if I know it actually will end up working.


Can anyone help?



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  • DShepleyDShepley Members  238WRX Points: 203Handicap: 2Posts: 238 Fairways
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    Looks to me like your arm swing is outrunning your shoulder turn and your left arm is getting too far across your chest. Keep your hands further from your right shoulder. It's hard to tell from DTL, but you could also be overdoing the spine extension in the back swing. I'm not a pro, just watch a lot of swing videos. This Athletic Motion Golf video below seems appropriate. I recall seeing a drill that a pro was using, (Fleetwood I think), where he felt like he was keeping his arms straight back and through.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjvA_gQPvYk

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  • GolfbeatGolfbeat Swing Lessee Members  1926WRX Points: 259Handicap: 5Posts: 1,926 Platinum Tees
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    I had a similar issue and was told by Dan C. to hinge and bend the wrists almost immediately in the very beginning of the take away. That solved my issue and you could try it but everybody is different of course.

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  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    I will try to get a FO view this afternoon and get it posted. Any other view that you think could be helpful?

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  • Nels55Nels55 Members  409WRX Points: 210Handicap: 9Posts: 409 Greens
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    @WhatWouldPhilDo, that is a nice looking swing to my eye! It looks like you are right on plane at the top and I wonder if you really need to change anything? There have been some great players who were past parallel at the top.

    Also I wonder if you practice partial shots using the clockface method? Doing that is very useful for wedge play and will teach you how to stop your lead arm at 11:00 which would stop the past parallel move.

    https://youtu.be/UeEkXxKSxzs

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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4205WRX Points: 754Posts: 4,205 Titanium Tees
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    Angle is a bit from the right with the camera but definitely you are continuing past where your shoulders stop and over flexing the right elbow.

    This looks pretty decent

    this is where you end up and can see over flexed right elbow which to me is more a result of continuing arms motion - looks like you think you have to get shaft parallel so you do and things go off the rails and lose synch in transition/downswing.

    what to do - accept that you don't need to get shaft to parallel, and then get an alignment stick - shorten swing should take care of over flexing right elbow - gonna take time - can also use something like

    a smartball /small range bucket between the arms.


    Wouldn't hurt to extend the trail knee a bit more - can use more right hip depth.

    Posted:

    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • DShepleyDShepley Members  238WRX Points: 203Handicap: 2Posts: 238 Fairways
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    How about a straight arm drill. Make swings feeling that you are keeping your arms straight. Also, another easier swing thought might be to simply try to keep your hands further from your trail shoulder. Pushing away slightly in your back swing is another helpful thought, (kind of like applying tension to the band if you have a tour striker planemate).

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  • tthomasgolfer605tthomasgolfer605 Members  171WRX Points: 88Handicap: ProPosts: 171 Fairways
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    There are two ways to shorten your swing without it messing you up completely. 1. Feel like your transition starts as soon as you take it back. 2. Wait for old age.

    Posted:
  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    Don't make my cry... I do not want to be old yet..

    Posted:
  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    I appreciate the breakdown and examples you provided. I think part of my problem is I dont feel coiled or loaded unless I get to where you see in my video. If I practice trying to be short, is it okay to feel like I am hitting from what feels like a weak position? If I am trying to swing from a 50% swing feel, is there anything telling that would show me I am way off track with what I am practicing? Is there anything I should monitor specifically to make sure I am staying on the right track? For example, distance, swing plane, etc.


    When I try to take shorter swings, it feels like I do not hinge the club at all? Is this a bad sign? When I try to hinge immediately, it feels like all I do is hinge my wrists and then unhinge them which feels like it is also wrong?

    Posted:
  • DShepleyDShepley Members  238WRX Points: 203Handicap: 2Posts: 238 Fairways
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    Sounds like you know you have a problem with your swing but don't want to change it because it feels different. Short answer, YES, it will feel different, it may even feel weaker but this is normal when you are trying to make a change. You must resist the urge to abandon it because it feels different and instead embrace the new feel so you can repeat it. Ultimately, let the ball flight / contact tell you if you are on track.

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  • wagolfer7wagolfer7 Members  276WRX Points: 180Handicap: +2Posts: 276 Greens
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    My guess is you are aren't using the ground properly. I think the one main reason players can over-rotate is if they are not engaging the ground for stability and power.

    Nice looking swing by the way.

    Also - in my opinion - you are right. Don't ever feel like you aren't loading up 100% on full swings. I didn't make swing changes and felt like I lost my power. That's not good, that means your losing your tension / torque.

    But I think you can "feel" what's going on in your swing. You want to to over-rotate to feel loaded up. Now you have to learn how to use that ground - so you can feel even more loaded up than ever and not over-rotate.

    You look to be a pretty good golfer. You don't over-rotate as much as a lot of guys with this problem, as you do a great job staying centered over the ball.

    If you are unfamiliar with ground pressure, CoP and CoM stuff - you should take a look into it. BodiTrak is where I started to understand and learn that all athletes, in nearly all sports, engage the ground to create torque. Ton of info on it on this forum too.

    Posted:
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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4205WRX Points: 754Posts: 4,205 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited May 29, 2020 4:37pm #13

    I understand. Part of this is the hip depth - better hip depth typically get better hip extension - which can give a feel of better "coil" in the core - me I focus on getting that lead knee out to the toes and only let the rotation bring it in - I focus on getting my right butt check pointing to the target (a feel thing) - stable knees, deep trail hip turn with torso turning 90* to spine.

    I'd do a number of the drills mentioned - do them slower, do say 3 drills swings then hit 3 balls - some drills you can hit balls with - lower your expectations - goal is to change not stripe them - slower allows you to better make the move (and associate a feel) - and can't rule out the straight arm - width is pretty important - one of my swing thoughts is to keep my trail arm straight - again takes time to work on it so expect ups and downs.

    Here's an old iteach drill that can really help synch things up involving straight arm and hinging - me I work on a gradual hinge but I want to be done by p5 - my associated feel is my palm is facing away from the target at p5.

    And yet another great drill - swing back to p2, pause then use your pivot to complete the turn.

    Me I like to mix up drills that focus on similar things - things that better synch up the arms and pivot on the backswing to me are money - go back in synch and it makes the rest much simpler. my main aids are an alignment stick in the shaft, a gravity fit, a smart ball. and my swing focus is slow, swings just to p5, and some full - if I can get to p5 in good shape it's just a bit more turn and your done (not to mention helps with those partial swings on the course)

    Good luck.

    Posted:

    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    I have seen some stuff on this and know the power comes from using the ground forces, but I don't have a clue where to get access to something like this to see what my numbers would show. I am going to look into hip depth. both you and GLK think there is some lower body issues affecting what feels like a full swing.

    Posted:
  • Nels55Nels55 Members  409WRX Points: 210Handicap: 9Posts: 409 Greens
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    @WhatWouldPhilDo, swing change is difficult and takes a lot of work. Are you sure that you will gain more by changing your swing then you would honing your skill?

    This picture is of major champions:

    The 'overswing' did not seem to bother them much...

    Posted:

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9344WRX Points: 2,978Posts: 9,344 Titanium Tees
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    That is because they are major champions and have infinitely more talent than most amateurs.

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  • MPStratMPStrat Members  1155WRX Points: 160Posts: 1,155 Platinum Tees
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    In relation to the OP, he doesnt have the backswing pivot of those great players so it's not apples to apples, but are you suggesting those player's length of swing is a fault that forces them to make compensations?

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  • Nels55Nels55 Members  409WRX Points: 210Handicap: 9Posts: 409 Greens
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    That is certainly a valid and worthwhile consideration. Hmmm, also you could point out how Hogan shortened up his swing a bit as part of his improvement from a guy who suffered from hooks at critical moments to major champion. On the other hand the OP's swing looks really good to me so the question is whether or not making this swing change will actually improve his game? I don't know what his index is now or how much he plays and practices which would all come into play in determining what his best approach would be. He does look fairly young so he has that on his side I suppose. LOL lots of folks look pretty young to me though... I simply question whether or not this swing change would be worth the effort. I do know a few single digit guys who over swing like the greats that I posted above and it seems to be in their DNA, one guy actually whaps himself on the back with his club on his backswing.

    So, I simply tried to raise a point to consider. When he gets older his swing is most likely going to shorten up on it's own anyway.

    Posted:

    Driver Mizuno ST190 9.5* / Paderson Ballistic KG70-D40. Hybrids: 3 and 4 Rogue / Steelfiber HLS980. Irons 5 through Wedge PXG 0311 / Steelfiber i110. Wedges 50*, 56*, 62* MacDaddy 4 / Steelfiber i110.

  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9344WRX Points: 2,978Posts: 9,344 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited May 29, 2020 6:24pm #19

    It's not a fault per say (like the OPs, which is much more arm over run and looks like maybe some tilt towards the target), but it's not something most amateurs have the skill or talent to consistently time, while not really being beneficial. OP has a solid move but would likely hit it further and straighter with a shorter arm swing since since that make it easy for the arms to sync with the pivot

    Posted:
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9344WRX Points: 2,978Posts: 9,344 Titanium Tees
    Joined:  edited May 29, 2020 6:28pm #20

    If it was working well for him, he would not have gone to multiple PGA pros and posted here seeking for further help to address it IMHO. How many modern tour pros have swings that long? Very few..why? Because they have found a better and more consistent way to do it.

    Posted:
  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4205WRX Points: 754Posts: 4,205 Titanium Tees
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    Different approach. Find a wall. Setup perpendicular to it with lead foot inches from the wall. Take a 7i and swing without hitting the wall.

    of course measure it out a bit and go slow. Can flip the club if doing inside.

    Closing thought. Take your time and enjoy the process. 1% better every day. You have a pretty good foundation. I get feeling the upper body as the power source and that it takes time to move toward using the body more. - been there doing that.

    Posted:

    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • MPStratMPStrat Members  1155WRX Points: 160Posts: 1,155 Platinum Tees
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    Fair enough. If a long arm swing is accompanied with a pivot that doesn't match, all bets are off more often than not. However, I would say each of those players pictured has an ideal swing for them and the length of swing works in their favor, not against them.

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  • Nels55Nels55 Members  409WRX Points: 210Handicap: 9Posts: 409 Greens
    Joined:  edited May 29, 2020 8:26pm #23

    I have seen golfers trying to correct problems that don't exist a lot of times! That said you may well be correct, I don't know. LOL I do know that I improved my ball striking by reducing my own arm swing but I thought that possible the OP is more suited to the longer swing then I am.

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  • J13J13 Dad golf MarylandMembers  16496WRX Points: 1,541Handicap: +1.6Posts: 16,496 Titanium Tees
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    You will get a lot of comments on here (lots of good suggestions) but I would HIGHLY recommend you reach out to Dan (Iteach) @iteachgolf and do an online lesson. He is one of the best in the biz and very reasonable rates for a teaching pro that works with PGA Tour players.

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  • MonteScheinblumMonteScheinblum Rebellion Golf Southern CaliforniaMembers  19034WRX Points: 1,698Posts: 19,034 Titanium Tees
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    A long backswing in and of itself is nit a swing fault.


    in this case it is. As others stated, if the proper pivot carries the swing that long, it’s fine. Not the case here. Also, the major champions all have good worst conditions at the top. The OP does when he’s about 80% and then it deteriorate. Cherry picking a few great golfers to justify the swing fault of an individual is a long standing inhibitor to good golf. Brooks Koepka massively restricts his hip turn and that is a death move for thousands of golfers.


    It looks like there is some excess spine tilt toward the target as a result.

    Posted:
  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    I play 4-5 times a week, only been at it for about 5 years. I have got down to a 10 handicap, but like any golfer, you always want more. I am not worried about gaining distance, but hitting target, then missing target to the right, then to the left is not fun... I will look into the online lesson. I have seen his name floated around for a while now.

    Posted:
  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    Does everyone seem to agree that my pivot is incorrect and that is what is causing my overseing/arm run off? Focus on fixing that and wherever my swing stops is good?

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  • hurley999shurley999s Members  812WRX Points: 401Posts: 812 Golden Tee
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    Listen to what Monte says. He’s one of the best in the business. Take a lesson or 3 from him and you’ll be squared away for awhile with some solid stuff to work on.

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  • glkglk send it in jerome Kodak, Tn/Chucktown, Sc via Chicago & BurghMembers  4205WRX Points: 754Posts: 4,205 Titanium Tees
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    Pivot can be improved. Overrun gets you out of synch which leads to issues in your release. My experience is that good pivot helps a lot but once you get used to too long arm swing it takes some work - and it is with you forever in some form. I found it better to focus on synch arms and pivot in backswing Pretty much dumped my drills that I still do. Cogorno who was in the still I posted with the alignment stick under his arm has talked about his battle with too long arm swing - he had to feel his swing stopped with his hands just outside his thigh and then he’d be good, lol. Hopefully you don’t need that extreme.

    just be persistent.

    ive taken lesson from both Monte and iteach though in person I did do a lesson two weeks ago with Monte from my garage via FaceTime so he does offer something other than send him a video - you get to interact and he can demonstrate drills, the issue, play back video of your swing Pretty good deal

    on how progress is typical made in swing changes.


    Posted:

    Enjoy every sandwich.

  • WhatWouldPhilDoWhatWouldPhilDo Members  65WRX Points: 20Posts: 65 Bunkers
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    I plan on PM’ing Monte to get his help. Just went out to his website. I am sure he appreciates the business from all of you ;)

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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers  9344WRX Points: 2,978Posts: 9,344 Titanium Tees
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    You have a solid swing for how long you've been playing, with a few tweaks it can be a really good swing IMHO, I'm sure you will like being a solid single digit player

    Posted:
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