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Club Building Method - Revisited


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There have been are many posts on club assembly processes for irons and one detail that has always intrigued me is when and how do we install and cut shafts to length. I have been working on this post for a while and may be rehashing some of what I see in other current posts. 

From what I read here and see in OEM YouTube videos, one approach is to install the shafts to full insertion depth and then trim the head/shaft assembly to length. I think I see a Ping video using this approach. Another approach is to cut shafts to length, install grips and ferrules and then install the head at the end. I think I see Hogan and Mizuno using this approach in videos. I have tried both and prefer the later approach.

What do I like about this process? First, I can easily and accurately measure unassembled shaft lengths. I can check and adjust first step distances and get shaft to shaft lengths and differences to be really exact. Maybe it is just me, but I find the club length measuring topic to be kind of fuzzy – do I go with the 60 deg fixture or do I try to measure from a line parallel to the grooves. The first seems arbitrary, the second is tough to be precise. And I see a recent post on this topic too.

The shaft, grip, and ferrule become a very consistent module in terms of lengths and weights. Shaft length progressions are exact, grips are weight sorted, ferrules are all set to the same depth, etc. Reduce variation in this module as much as possible and the head just becomes a lump that is glued on the end.  It’s easy to do assembly, dry fitting, and final weighting with shaft modules like this. The heads can also be worked over to reduce variation in insertion depths and weight progressions. The drawback is that overall club lengths may vary slightly based on shaft insertion depths but the depths can be checked and adjusted before assembly to remove as much variation as possible.

So with this approach, ferrule are set to the same depth and some shafts may not be at the bottom of the bore? True but I don’t think it matters, epoxy holds everything together.

In the end, there is probably going to be some variation in shaft insertion depths and BBGMs across a set of iron heads and this is either accommodated by a. shaft length changing slightly or b. overall length changing slightly. It seems like we have to choose either a. or b. when we assemble irons and I am more comfortable with b.

What about regripping? If you regrip with different weight grips, weights and swingweights may be off. I always try to weight sort grips so if both the original grips and replacement grips are weight sorted, there won’t be much effect here.

As mentioned in by others in previous posts, some of this is splitting hairs since if we are careful about measuring, weighing, and reducing as much variation as possible in all components, different processes arrive at a result of a nicely assembled set of clubs.

Anyone else use this approach of cutting shafts to length first, then heads as the last step??

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Ping is (or maybe was) a little unique in that they approached the swing weight management differently than most OEM's due to the fact that their weight modules can be added to the head after it's glued on. For everyone else, swing weight needs to be managed with tip weights or hosel weights so have to be added before the head is glued on. And for swing weight to be managed that means the shaft has to be cut to length so

Now, in a non-factory setting of a local club builder and as long as steel shafts are being used, then there the additional option to use lead/tungsten powder and cork down the shaft for swing weighting - so in that case it could be done after the heads are glued on. But I believe the people that prefer that approach are a minority.

I don't see any potential issues or inconsistencies with the insertion depth or ferrule installation with any of the methods, so don't really see what you were referring to for those.

There is a lot of fuzzyness, so to speak, when it comes to length management and measurement methods. But the differences don't really mean much as long as you choose one way and use it consistently. Personally, I prefer to take the grip completely out of the equation since it is one variation that you can't really control. The grip should be chosen based on size and comfort, not on how the grip cap may or may not effect length. I always cut to 1/8" less then the desired playing length no matter what grip is being used.

Swing weighting is also better done without the grip. Grip weight doesn't really effect the true swing weight so you don't want small manufacturing variations in grip weight to effect the head weight adjustments. If someone changes grip weight, then they should be refit for swing weight, the old sw value from the different weight grip should not just be reused.

 

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With the sets that I have reshafted, I have always noticed some variation in insertion depths. If one installs all the shafts to the bottom and cuts to length, the ferrule distances and overall shaft lengths will reflect the insertion depth variations. One can try to check/drill hosels to even these out but this variation has always bugged me. Perhaps I'm just going over well plowed ground here.

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Thanks @Howard_Jones for sharing your wisdom with us, I make copies of your detailed posts like this one. I have not considered 'true SW' before and will do this on my next set. Still a question or two for you. It looks like the insertion depth is being checked and evened out in #3 but what about BBGM. If the BBGMs vary from head to head, the shaft lengths cut in #6 will show this BBGM variation. If this is true, it seems like we don't want shaft lengths to show variation. I worked on a set of irons from the 80s where the mfg tolerances we not good and the BBGMs were not consistent and the resulting cut shaft lengths reflected this. I have been comfortable with the idea of cutting all shafts to 1/2 inch exact increments (or whatever spec) and letting the overall club length vary slightly with any BBGM variation. (diagram is from okrasu.eu)

[img]https://s3.amazonaws.com/golfwrxforums/uploads/UF3SK35WA0FI/bbgm-diagram-hosel-en-okrasu-eu.png[/img]

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Why did you have to open that can of worms...LOL

This is actually complicated, but for short, its all about the shaft ABOVE the hosel, thats the only part of the shaft who can bend or flex if you like.

If INSERT is the same, but BBGM vary (some sets is designed like that to raise VCOG, typical for the PW, some sets from #8 and shorter) we need to know how the BUTT section respond when we go longer or shorter.

The general ruling is,

Shorter butt section (higher BBGM) = softer flex,

Longer butt section (lower BBGM) = stronger flex

How much depends on the shafts EI profile on the butt section.

A shaft like Project X steel is more or less unaffected, Dynamic Gold go slightly stronger, RIFLE FCM way stronger (relative speaking), but the difference to BBGM has to be large before we will notice, but nit pickers like me, would TIP TRIM the full difference of BBGM (if insert is equal), so the shaft ABOVE the hosel becomes like BBGM was the same. Even tapers can be tip trimmed about 3/8" before we get insert issues, and i have not seen iron sets where BBGM moved with that much, so its really no issue to equalize for BBGM by tip trim

DO NOT mix this with going longer in general, then we have to include Head weight. So if we build a set thats "plus 0.5", the question is, do we use the same head weight where SW value goes up 3 SWP or do we use B-Weight heads (7 grams lower) to equalize the SW raise so it remains the same?

PX would go softer using the same head, DG will go slightly softer, and RIFLE will remain on slope.....(compared to the shaft models natural flex slope in a set)

The only shaft models i have the hosel equalize math for in my head is Rifle FCM since i worked with those numbers every day, for the others i will have to dig in my notes, since the butt section on them is NOT like RIFLE FCM, so they dont behave the same way when butt section goes longer or shorter.

For INSERT, its way easier. Both PX, RIFLE and KBS respond with 1 CPM for each 3/16" difference to insert (or tip trim who can be considered to be the same, the deeper, the less part of the tip can bend, just like tip trim does) For DG and most other TT models, 1/8" is 1 CPM both as insert and tip trim.

So, for short and as summary, when we equalize for BBGM and or Insert, we do it to make the shaft ABOVE the hosel as equal as can be, (hosel top to first step, and net length of butt section) since thats the only part who can bend, what ever thats down in the hosel is blocked from bending

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Even if i love Excel and has 2 screens and portable wireless keyboard in my workshop, i prefer to use a pen when i build, since hands is always dirty. For that purpose, i made 3 different sheets for notes, and if you laminate them in clear plastic, you can write on them, take a photo when all is filled in, and clean it with alcohol for reuse. I only have photos of those sheets now, but anyone with excel can make their own as a "copy of them".

The first is TARGET SPECS (first line is a example) Target specs is those specs we have from a fitting and thats our Goal for the build. (but we dont always get there)

image.pngthe second sheet is DRY FIT SPECS - The modification we do

image.png

The last is WHAT WE ENDED UP WITH BUILD SPECS (should be equal to Target specs, but we dont always get spot on

AND the right side WHAT WE STARTED FROM - (uncut shafts etc...)

image.png

If you keep track of the buildings you do like this 4 sheets cover, repair jobs is a walk in the park, we want be able to remember all this stuff, so the norm is only the Build specs, but its very good to know how we got there....(like 2/8" tip trim on tapers, we dont always remember we did that to equalize for hosel specs as example, but with notes like this we want forget)

EDIT- This sheets as excel can still be downloaded from drop box. Feel free to modify them as you like.https://www.dropbox.com/s/68j9fslw2s88ak6/Bench%20charts.xlsx?dl=0

 

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Howard - I fully agree with this statement "When we equalize for BBGM and or Insert, we do it to make the shaft ABOVE the hosel as equal as can be, (hosel top to first step, and net length of butt section) since that's the only part who can bend, what ever that's down in the hosel is blocked from bending."

This is why I am still interested in the approach of cutting all the shafts to lengths in 1/2inch or other predetermined steps and installing all ferrules to the same depth. This approach would ensure even/consistent shaft lengths above the hosel and even same shaft length in the hosel. And as mentioned above, it is easy to cut a group of raw shafts to exact lengths.

The spreadsheets are great. I keep a spreadsheet for iron reshafts but tend to just keep adding columns so it gets unwieldy. The four separate ones is a nice idea and easy to write on.

 

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  • 7 months later...
8 hours ago, blev2 said:

I’m wanting to build a set of zx7 irons with x100 shafts. The shafts I have would be 1/8” short of standard. Could I set the ferrule depth to make them play standard length? What would that do to the flex of the shaft or the integrity of the connection? 

 

Why are you worried about 1/8"?    If it really matters that much to you, I'd just find a grip with a bigger cap to make up for the 1/8" or just use a small spacer when installing the grip instead of messing with the glue joint.

 

But to answer the question, what's the bore depth?  I prefer a full 1-1/4" of shaft insertion for the best glue joint but I'd say 1" is the bare minimum for moderate swing speed players (assuming a good strong glue is used).   The extra length allows for a little fudge factor.

 

And no, it wouldn't do anything to the flex of the shaft.

 

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On 8/8/2020 at 2:38 PM, Howard_Jones said:

Why did you have to open that can of worms...LOL

This is actually complicated, but for short, its all about the shaft ABOVE the hosel, thats the only part of the shaft who can bend or flex if you like.

If INSERT is the same, but BBGM vary (some sets is designed like that to raise VCOG, typical for the PW, some sets from #8 and shorter) we need to know how the BUTT section respond when we go longer or shorter.

The general ruling is,

Shorter butt section (higher BBGM) = softer flex,

Longer butt section (lower BBGM) = stronger flex

How much depends on the shafts EI profile on the butt section.

A shaft like Project X steel is more or less unaffected, Dynamic Gold go slightly stronger, RIFLE FCM way stronger (relative speaking), but the difference to BBGM has to be large before we will notice, but nit pickers like me, would TIP TRIM the full difference of BBGM (if insert is equal), so the shaft ABOVE the hosel becomes like BBGM was the same. Even tapers can be tip trimmed about 3/8" before we get insert issues, and i have not seen iron sets where BBGM moved with that much, so its really no issue to equalize for BBGM by tip trim

DO NOT mix this with going longer in general, then we have to include Head weight. So if we build a set thats "plus 0.5", the question is, do we use the same head weight where SW value goes up 3 SWP or do we use B-Weight heads (7 grams lower) to equalize the SW raise so it remains the same?

PX would go softer using the same head, DG will go slightly softer, and RIFLE will remain on slope.....(compared to the shaft models natural flex slope in a set)

The only shaft models i have the hosel equalize math for in my head is Rifle FCM since i worked with those numbers every day, for the others i will have to dig in my notes, since the butt section on them is NOT like RIFLE FCM, so they dont behave the same way when butt section goes longer or shorter.

For INSERT, its way easier. Both PX, RIFLE and KBS respond with 1 CPM for each 3/16" difference to insert (or tip trim who can be considered to be the same, the deeper, the less part of the tip can bend, just like tip trim does) For DG and most other TT models, 1/8" is 1 CPM both as insert and tip trim.

So, for short and as summary, when we equalize for BBGM and or Insert, we do it to make the shaft ABOVE the hosel as equal as can be, (hosel top to first step, and net length of butt section) since thats the only part who can bend, what ever thats down in the hosel is blocked from bending

 

Apologies... what is BBGM?

 

Two other questions in follow-up to your EXCELLENT write-up on method:

 

1. What would the slope be on 3/8" increment sets (which I understand to be the method for MOI matched"

 

2. Are the epoxy "stripes" on the shaft tip vertical or horizontal?  Note: I am embarassed to ask this question. 

Ping G410 Plus Driver, TaylorMade Aeroburner 3W, Cobra F6 Baffler 
Callaway 2015 XR 4, 5 hybrids

Titleist 2021 T300 6-P, 48W, 53W irons

Ping Zing Lob wedge
Axis1 Rose putter

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51 minutes ago, dekez said:

 

Apologies... what is BBGM?

 

Two other questions in follow-up to your EXCELLENT write-up on method:

 

1. What would the slope be on 3/8" increment sets (which I understand to be the method for MOI matched"

 

2. Are the epoxy "stripes" on the shaft tip vertical or horizontal?  Note: I am embarassed to ask this question. 


BBGM = Bottom of Bore to Ground line Measurement image.png.7bc6b43953d43719320cb09071a7606c.png

image.png.68cc445e2e5f67a1bc5cdeacc601d26b.png

If we start from whats considered STANDARD in irons and go 3/8 with the #9 as point zero, it looks like this:

 

Edited by Howard_Jones
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/4/2021 at 7:52 AM, Howard_Jones said:


BBGM = Bottom of Bore to Ground line Measurement image.png.7bc6b43953d43719320cb09071a7606c.png

image.png.68cc445e2e5f67a1bc5cdeacc601d26b.png

If we start from whats considered STANDARD in irons and go 3/8 with the #9 as point zero, it looks like this:

 

OK. So if I go 1/2" between irons and want to match my 9#, I want to have 7grams difference between each club AFTER the shaft is inserted?  Or before the shaft is inserted?

Ping G410 Plus Driver, TaylorMade Aeroburner 3W, Cobra F6 Baffler 
Callaway 2015 XR 4, 5 hybrids

Titleist 2021 T300 6-P, 48W, 53W irons

Ping Zing Lob wedge
Axis1 Rose putter

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34 minutes ago, dekez said:

OK. So if I go 1/2" between irons and want to match my 9#, I want to have 7grams difference between each club AFTER the shaft is inserted?  Or before the shaft is inserted?


This is the basics...

Its the HEAD ALONE, with or without a tip weight and the ferrule.

Shafts is a unit for itself, high end club making always include weight sorting of shaft like this:
Descending wgt shafts - use the lightest shaft for the longest club and opposite.
Constant wgt shafts - Exchange shafts in and out of the set from other sets, to make all shafts as equal on start wgt as possible

Grips is a unit for itself, should be weight sorted and used to even out TOTAL wgt progression by taking advantage of the tolerances grips often has that can be plus minus 3.5 grams

As example a classic DG S300 or X100 cut to play length is no longer 130 grams, but down at 120-122 depending on hosel specs and what play length we use.

Standard grips is plus minus 50-52 grams but its more common that they have another weight than "std", but that dont always mean a different effect of SW like New Decade who is official 46.5 grams as standard, but returns the same SW value as Golf Pride Tour velvet standard at 50 grams due to a slightly different balance point on the grip who normally is plus minus 4.0 inch below the butt end of the grip

Heads dont have a standard head wgt either, but a typical #3 iron head is expected to be plus minus 240 grams like my static fitting chart say, and all clubs shorter, PLUS 7 grams progressive as we go shorter on play length.

1/2" between clubs = 7 grams in a classic SW set, so if we could get ALL shafts, and ALL grips on the fragment of official specs, TOTAL wgt progression from club to club will also be 7.0 grams like the head weight slope is, since the grip and shaft "should have" the same weight no matter club.

image.png.772d5d6335d18e46f60cad790c26d7b4.png

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43 minutes ago, dekez said:

OK. So if I go 1/2" between irons and want to match my 9#, I want to have 7grams difference between each club AFTER the shaft is inserted?  Or before the shaft is inserted?

 

The 7 gm increment is for head weights (no shaft).    Although with const weight shafts, you should get the same progression for club weight (not counting manufacturing variations in the grip and shaft weight).

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In my case, I am going to be using parallel .370 shafts.  So I think I will have to account for shaft weight also to MOI match right?

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Ping G410 Plus Driver, TaylorMade Aeroburner 3W, Cobra F6 Baffler 
Callaway 2015 XR 4, 5 hybrids

Titleist 2021 T300 6-P, 48W, 53W irons

Ping Zing Lob wedge
Axis1 Rose putter

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11 minutes ago, dekez said:

In my case, I am going to be using parallel .370 shafts.  So I think I will have to account for shaft weight also to MOI match right?

 

IMO, not really enough to be necessary for the "poor man's" MOI match.   You might if you had an actual MOI machine.

 

But it depends on which model shaft.  Not all .370 parallel tip shafts are single length, descending weight.  There are several models that are available in discrete length (CW) parallel tip.     And several models that come in both forms and you can always use the taper tip version in a parallel hosel just by using a shim.

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Years back when hosel depth (shaft insertion depth) varied quite a bit and we primarily used steel shafts for a set of irons, there was a lively discussion among clubmakers to measure from sole to the first step on the shaft and trim the shaft tip for a consistent measurement then begin any shaft trimming from there. Even taper tip shafts had some tip trimming room.

 

Hope people understand what I am saying. 

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36 minutes ago, BREWMASTER95060 said:

OK
What type of shaft are you thinking about using?
Just curious.
 

Elevate 95 (non-tour) or Project X LZ 95g 5.5

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Ping G410 Plus Driver, TaylorMade Aeroburner 3W, Cobra F6 Baffler 
Callaway 2015 XR 4, 5 hybrids

Titleist 2021 T300 6-P, 48W, 53W irons

Ping Zing Lob wedge
Axis1 Rose putter

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1 hour ago, dekez said:

Elevate 95 (non-tour) or Project X LZ 95g 5.5


If they are new and un-cut, so you can weight sort them, just do it like i have suggested, that makes the difference from the longest to the shortest club a tad lower, then just move on, to next step, you have done what you could with the shafts, that means they WILL vary a little when we get to total weight, but if you hold back with grips until the clubs is dry after epoxy, you can now put each UN gripped club on the gram scale to see what wgt progression they have now, and the  use the weight sorted grips so that progression becomes as close to a slop with equal steps between clubs as you can.

Both Play lenghts and Total weight is MORE important than SW or MOI, so hold focus on each parameter, 1 at the time, and DONT make MOI or SW to become a higher priority than length and total weight, thats NOT a good set compared to when it all falls into place

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/13/2021 at 1:37 PM, Howard_Jones said:


This is the basics...

Its the HEAD ALONE, with or without a tip weight and the ferrule.

Shafts is a unit for itself, high end club making always include weight sorting of shaft like this:
Descending wgt shafts - use the lightest shaft for the longest club and opposite.
Constant wgt shafts - Exchange shafts in and out of the set from other sets, to make all shafts as equal on start wgt as possible

Grips is a unit for itself, should be weight sorted and used to even out TOTAL wgt progression by taking advantage of the tolerances grips often has that can be plus minus 3.5 grams

As example a classic DG S300 or X100 cut to play length is no longer 130 grams, but down at 120-122 depending on hosel specs and what play length we use.

Standard grips is plus minus 50-52 grams but its more common that they have another weight than "std", but that dont always mean a different effect of SW like New Decade who is official 46.5 grams as standard, but returns the same SW value as Golf Pride Tour velvet standard at 50 grams due to a slightly different balance point on the grip who normally is plus minus 4.0 inch below the butt end of the grip

Heads dont have a standard head wgt either, but a typical #3 iron head is expected to be plus minus 240 grams like my static fitting chart say, and all clubs shorter, PLUS 7 grams progressive as we go shorter on play length.

1/2" between clubs = 7 grams in a classic SW set, so if we could get ALL shafts, and ALL grips on the fragment of official specs, TOTAL wgt progression from club to club will also be 7.0 grams like the head weight slope is, since the grip and shaft "should have" the same weight no matter club.

image.png.772d5d6335d18e46f60cad790c26d7b4.png

@Howard_Jones sorry if this is a ridiculous question, but i building a set and using your AWESOME chart above, but in regards to the PW.    Its listed wit 285gs and also with 300 gs.   Whats the difference between those?   Which should i use when building a set using AMT White x100.    Thanks Howard

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  • 1 year later...
On 8/8/2020 at 3:31 AM, Howard_Jones said:

That method is no good, we should always do loft and lie as the first, because lie angles makes a difference for both measured length and SW values.

This photo is from Callaway using a "reversed ruler" so we can see how Lie angles changes the measured length. (thats why its not good to cut shafts as the first step)

image.png

Ive made a full description from A-Z of how e should to it all to get the tightest possible tolerances, but cant find it now, so here is the "light version" strait from my hand.

 

#1 - Prepare / clean / brush the hosel and make it ready for assemble, If Countersink ferrules shall be used, prepare the hosel top for that by drilling with the correct angle tool.

#1 B - Measure loft and lie, and adjust if needed. Use a fishing line in a loop to fix the shaft temporary so measurements of loft and lie can be done. If you dont know what lie angles to be used, set them all to the same (standard).

#2 - Measure head weight, take notes and find the needed tip weights to get the the head weight slope you plan for (7.0 grams is flat SW in 4/8" sets). Hosel drill heads thats above head weight target.

#3 - Measure insert on the heel and toe side of the bore using a caliper (never measure in the center). Adjust if tolerances is above 1.0 mm both ways

#4 - Grind/prepare shaft tips for install (use insert specs)

#5 - Add tip weights to the shaft, put the heads on, and measure play length and mark it for cut using the system you want for grip cap.

(measure at least twice, lift the club of the ruler, replace it and measure again, we might look at the wrong play length the first time)

#6 - Cut shaft on the longer side of the cut mark, grind down to target and check measurements during that grind down job several times.

#7 - Dry fit heads with tip weight and the ferrule attached with tape on the outside of the shaft in its correct position to your target. Fine tune by grinding down tip weights to target.

DO NOT add grips, consider 9 SWP above un-gripped to be "true SW" so if your target with standard grips is D2, dryfit to E1. This way it does not matter what grips we add later, and we dont fool ourself by dry fitting clubs and adjust head weight to tolerances there might be in grip weight. Grip weight variables is a TOTAL weight issue, its got nothing to do with the head side of the club and thats the side we should get "right". DO NOT use split grips either, we might fail and not get the grip fully seated for all who changes "play length" on the SW scale so to avoid that error, dry fit without.

If your plan is to use a "special grip" like MID size or what ever, your should tune up that club during fitting without thinking of SW values and measure when done. Then rip of that grip to get a target value for dryfit without grips so your conversion factor becomes correct. Dont forget to measure "grip insert" vs full length, Grip cap sizes vary even within the same company.

#8 mix 0.5 grams of epoxy pr club, expect the net use to be 0.35 grams equal to the tape you used to hold the ferrule outside the shaft during dry fit. NEVER use epoxy to tune SW values, that epoxy WILL come loose one day and make rattles in the shaft, or for graphite, make a breaking point at the hosel top, or make later shaft changes a messy job (reuse of the shaft)

ASSEMBLE

#9 - Add a drop of epoxy on the shaft tip, and rotate the ferrule over it so some epoxy gets between the shaft and the ferrule. (this would prevent the ferrules from climbing on the shafts).

#10 - Use the actual club head WITH tip weight to push the ferrule into its position. MEASURE "tip to ferrule" and compare to insert with the caliper to make sure its full insert.

#11 - Add epoxy ONLY to the upper 1/3 of the hosel, then in stripes from ferrule to the shaft tip. Hold the head "upside down" and insert the shaft WITH TIP WEIGHT - UP into the head while you rotate it into position. This method should be used to prevent too much epoxy to evacuate into the shaft tip.

#12 - Wipe of excessive epoxy, check shaft alignment (labels up/Down - FLO marks), and put the club to dry. AVOID to rest the shafts against a wall, it might move lie angles up to 0.5 against upright, and if countersink ferrules is used it might cause a opening between the hosel and the ferrule on the heel side (the back of the club)

AFTER CLUBS IS DRIED UP.

#13 - Check loft and lie again, adjust if needed.

#14 - Measure play length, SW and Total weight ex grips. Check CPM

#15 - Weight sort the grips and distribute them to even out total weight progression

#16 - Add build up and or grip tape - The tape area is average 10.0 inches long, make sure you use the same length on all shafts - Build up only to the end, the last layer (the grip tape) long enough to close the butt end, add grips and let dry.

#17 - Measure the play ready clubs total weight and SW values.

#18 - Clean the shafts, heads and grips - Add shaft labels if wanted - deliver...

TAKE NOTES of all components from the start, what you modified and the new specs, and the final specs when the clubs is play ready. This way you have a complete repair reference if needed.

Howard,

Thank you once again for sharing your expertise, you're a wealth of knowledge.

Two questions.

1. How do you use fishing line to hold the head in place to measure lie?

2. What position should I place the club in while the epoxy is curing?

Vertical with the head up?

Thanks again.

Edited by JimmyC59
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On 8/8/2020 at 3:31 AM, Howard_Jones said:

That method is no good, we should always do loft and lie as the first, because lie angles makes a difference for both measured length and SW values.

This photo is from Callaway using a "reversed ruler" so we can see how Lie angles changes the measured length. (thats why its not good to cut shafts as the first step)

image.png

Ive made a full description from A-Z of how e should to it all to get the tightest possible tolerances, but cant find it now, so here is the "light version" strait from my hand.

 

#1 - Prepare / clean / brush the hosel and make it ready for assemble, If Countersink ferrules shall be used, prepare the hosel top for that by drilling with the correct angle tool.

#1 B - Measure loft and lie, and adjust if needed. Use a fishing line in a loop to fix the shaft temporary so measurements of loft and lie can be done. If you dont know what lie angles to be used, set them all to the same (standard).

#2 - Measure head weight, take notes and find the needed tip weights to get the the head weight slope you plan for (7.0 grams is flat SW in 4/8" sets). Hosel drill heads thats above head weight target.

#3 - Measure insert on the heel and toe side of the bore using a caliper (never measure in the center). Adjust if tolerances is above 1.0 mm both ways

#4 - Grind/prepare shaft tips for install (use insert specs)

#5 - Add tip weights to the shaft, put the heads on, and measure play length and mark it for cut using the system you want for grip cap.

(measure at least twice, lift the club of the ruler, replace it and measure again, we might look at the wrong play length the first time)

#6 - Cut shaft on the longer side of the cut mark, grind down to target and check measurements during that grind down job several times.

#7 - Dry fit heads with tip weight and the ferrule attached with tape on the outside of the shaft in its correct position to your target. Fine tune by grinding down tip weights to target.

DO NOT add grips, consider 9 SWP above un-gripped to be "true SW" so if your target with standard grips is D2, dryfit to E1. This way it does not matter what grips we add later, and we dont fool ourself by dry fitting clubs and adjust head weight to tolerances there might be in grip weight. Grip weight variables is a TOTAL weight issue, its got nothing to do with the head side of the club and thats the side we should get "right". DO NOT use split grips either, we might fail and not get the grip fully seated for all who changes "play length" on the SW scale so to avoid that error, dry fit without.

If your plan is to use a "special grip" like MID size or what ever, your should tune up that club during fitting without thinking of SW values and measure when done. Then rip of that grip to get a target value for dryfit without grips so your conversion factor becomes correct. Dont forget to measure "grip insert" vs full length, Grip cap sizes vary even within the same company.

#8 mix 0.5 grams of epoxy pr club, expect the net use to be 0.35 grams equal to the tape you used to hold the ferrule outside the shaft during dry fit. NEVER use epoxy to tune SW values, that epoxy WILL come loose one day and make rattles in the shaft, or for graphite, make a breaking point at the hosel top, or make later shaft changes a messy job (reuse of the shaft)

ASSEMBLE

#9 - Add a drop of epoxy on the shaft tip, and rotate the ferrule over it so some epoxy gets between the shaft and the ferrule. (this would prevent the ferrules from climbing on the shafts).

#10 - Use the actual club head WITH tip weight to push the ferrule into its position. MEASURE "tip to ferrule" and compare to insert with the caliper to make sure its full insert.

#11 - Add epoxy ONLY to the upper 1/3 of the hosel, then in stripes from ferrule to the shaft tip. Hold the head "upside down" and insert the shaft WITH TIP WEIGHT - UP into the head while you rotate it into position. This method should be used to prevent too much epoxy to evacuate into the shaft tip.

#12 - Wipe of excessive epoxy, check shaft alignment (labels up/Down - FLO marks), and put the club to dry. AVOID to rest the shafts against a wall, it might move lie angles up to 0.5 against upright, and if countersink ferrules is used it might cause a opening between the hosel and the ferrule on the heel side (the back of the club)

AFTER CLUBS IS DRIED UP.

#13 - Check loft and lie again, adjust if needed.

#14 - Measure play length, SW and Total weight ex grips. Check CPM

#15 - Weight sort the grips and distribute them to even out total weight progression

#16 - Add build up and or grip tape - The tape area is average 10.0 inches long, make sure you use the same length on all shafts - Build up only to the end, the last layer (the grip tape) long enough to close the butt end, add grips and let dry.

#17 - Measure the play ready clubs total weight and SW values.

#18 - Clean the shafts, heads and grips - Add shaft labels if wanted - deliver...

TAKE NOTES of all components from the start, what you modified and the new specs, and the final specs when the clubs is play ready. This way you have a complete repair reference if needed.

Perfect!! This is what everyone should follow, IMHO. The ONLY thing I do different is I install the grips prior to epoxying the heads. I install with air, so it is easy to remove them if needed. I also MOI my clubs before final epoxy so I can get them where I want them. I use 2g lead tape on the hosel to account for the weight of the epoxy.

 

BT

 

Dr#1 Cobra Speedzone 10.5 – HZRDUS Yellow HC 65 TX @ 46”
Dr#2 Mizuno STZ 220 9.5 (10.5) - HZRDUS Smoke IM10 65 Low TX @ 46"

Mizuno ST190 15 - HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 43"
Mizuno STZ 220 18- HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 70 TS @ 42"
Mizuno MP15 4-PW - Aldila RIP Tour 115 R
Cobra MIM Wedges 52, 56 & 60 – stock KBS Hi-Rev @ 35.5”

Odyssey V-Line Stroke Lab 33.5"
Grips - Grip Master Classic Wrap Midsize

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3 hours ago, JimmyC59 said:

2. What position should I place the club in while the epoxy is curing?

Vertical with the head up?

Vertical, with shaft up and head at the bottom. If you flip it, you'll get epoxy running down the shaft, and probably leaking out.

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Srixon Z545 8.5° - Attas 11 7S
Honma TW747 3HL (16.5°) - Tour AD-IZ 7S

Honma TW747 7 wood - Attas 5 GoGo 7S

Honma TW-X 3 iron - Vizzard 85S (alternates with LW)

4-PW 2015 OnOff Forged Kuro - AMT Tour White X100 SSx2

50°-08 - Fourteen RM-4 - AMT X100
56°-10 - Fourteen RM-4 H grind - AMT X100
64°-10 - Callaway Jaws Full Toe Black - Dynamic Gold Spinner (alternates with 3 iron)

Piretti Cottonwood II, 375g - KBS GPS, P2 Aware Tour

Grips - Star Sidewinder 360

Maxfli Tour Yellow

Vessel Player III - Iridium

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