This just blew my mind...........Correct Lie Angle?

leo the lionleo the lion Members Posts: 975 ✭✭✭✭✭
Just watched this video from Ian and Matty from TXG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMZZ88LEj2I



I never liked the lie board method and I had been using a black sharpie on a ball. I always thought lie angle was one of the most important factors in fitting for irons..........but not now.
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Comments

  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    It's still one of the most important factors in fitting. Just not in the way that most had learned to use it
  • KMo23KMo23 Members Posts: 148 ✭✭✭
    Ball flight is the best
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 9, 2019 10:37am #4
    KMo23 wrote:


    Ball flight is the best




    im not impressed, 18 minutes talk about something they dont know well enough to explain the way it should be?

    Its a MYTH that ball flight dont lie, and for lie angles its just as useless as the lie board



    A lie angle thats 1 to much upright causes a tilt of 3* on the spin axis, the same does a face angle 1* closed to path

    ....so what caused that unwanted draw - ? we really have no clue without a launch monitor and the knowledge of what causes ball flight, and we need to look at face vs path, so forget that old myth about ball flight and lie angles it was never true, and based on lack of knowledge.



    Lie angles CAN be judged vs ball flight, but ONLY if you have a launch monitor behind, and KNOW how to take advantage of it for that task, but very few does, and the two in the movie did not seem to be educated in this either, except looking at the face tilt at impact, but you DONT need a 10.000 USD LM to get to know that.....



    if you want to use a LM here is how too

    For each 1 face is open to path, SPIN AXIS TILT goes 3* to the RIGHT for a right hand player

    For each 1 face is closed to path, SPIN AXIS TILT goes 3* to the LEFT for a right hand player



    Face vs path x 3 = TILT ON SPIN AXIS

    Face Open to path = tilt to the Right

    Face Closed to path = tilt to the left



    Example:

    Path 5 in to out, face closed 2 vs path

    Thats 2 closed x 3 = 6 expected as TILT and to the left.

    If the Tilt is 9, then Lie is 1 to much upright, if the tilt is 12* its 2* more up right than it should be



    FACE LABELS IS EASIER

    Face labels can be used by anyone, there is no entry level height, thats why i developed them so anyone can make it.

    The lie board method was never correct, and launch monitors to hard to use if you dont know the ball flight laws and math behind like your own pockets, and this 2 men did not, because if they did, they would have deleted one stroke as miss reading....(the numbers did not mach up = miss reading)



    They could not even explain WHY the lie method misleads us, and they did NOT offer a easy solution, it looked like a CG2 comercial where they left the audience in a state of "what the h...do we do know since we dont have a LM like that?"..we will have to buy one then?.



    Its also scary to see someone who should know better is using the lie board to get confirmation of LM datas, but if they had ACTUAL sole impact marks who told what side, and what edge who made first contact, some of the output datas could be explained, but simply looking for a sole mark and measure heel to toe axis tells this folks dont know what they are dealing with at all, and in 2019 that should not be possible, but in Golf tech...anything is, and they deliver it as "education"?



    Impact marks on the sole move between heel and toe, and between leading edge and trailing edge, ALL depending on face angle and club path, so there is absolutely NO WAY what so ever that sole impact labels can be used the way they are and make it right, it CANT BE DONE, and we CANT judge lie angles by turf marks, because thats a question of sole properties, NOT lie angles, but before you know how to grind a club head, how would you know?



    In Golf, the old MYTHS still lives and is repeated like it was verses and its a BIG SHAME, because the knowledge and the solutions is out there, and they are for FREE, so what did those 18 minutes of time give the ones who saw that video?....mistrust and frustrations, no solutions



    Here is the solution

    Use face labels and forget the lie board is the answer, forget the LM too, its way to complicated to understand, and this labels who is FREE dont even need to be printed....draw the line on the ball and use a PHOTO of the label on your mobile and compare....its THAT easy, and no way we can mess it up, and no expensive LM is needed.



    http://www.golfwrx.c...-angle-testing/



    And those interested in WHY the lie board CANT be used, look at this MAP who shows how sole impact marks move depending on face angle and path. There is hardly NO real life situation where a correct lie angle will make a center of the sole impact as first contact point, that hardly ever happens, so searching for it and adjusting lie to make that happen is in 99% of all cases WRONG, and gives a lie angle 1 to 2 more upright than it should be.



    Most players who came in my door came with 2* upright, who seems to have been some kind of "standard" for better players for years???.... only a few of them left with irons that was 2 upright



    Here is 6 example from my club making and fitting classes i held in Denmark for PGA pros and others.



    ALL the 3 on top would be judged WRONG on a lie board and make them to go upright where its NOT needed or correct to do so. All the 3 in the bottom would be judged as good, but they are all wrong.



    sorry about spelling errors in the text, it was written in Danish back in 2012 and just rewritten to fast before a snap shot was taken, but its very old news that lie boards dont work as many think they do, and why...here it is:











    The folks on the video did not tell, and did not even use sole labels who could tell what edge impact was made.

    The test they did end up as "non educational" and as a CG2 commercial, sorry folks, thats what you get spending 18 minutes on the video, a commercial, its not something you can use real life unless you are in the marked for a launch monitor. If lie angles is your issue they did NOT offer you a solution.



    END NOTE

    - Back in 2010 i was at Mitchell Golf Equipment institute and they had the Mizuno LIE ANGLE club for fitting.

    The club had engraved lines and numbers so it should be easier to read sole labels.

    the method itself is useless, and when we measured actual lie angle of the TEST club for lie angles, the head has been to the lie board so many times it was almost 2 upright.....



    Thats why i question ALL big box stores with Lie boards and Demo heads with different lie angles...only a few of them has a clue about the ACTUAL specs of the clubs they use for fitting, they never bothered to check them out, and combined with lie boards....good luck, you really need it and then some.....
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    You had me up until Quran, Howard.
  • Awainer1Awainer1 Members Posts: 913 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Actual specs should be checked on a loft lie gauge using the sole radius of the leading edge. Without that information you are pissing in the wind
  • wessnutswessnuts Members Posts: 93
    Wow. So just use face tape to get correct lie angle? Seems too good to be true, but I'll give that a go and see how it compares to launch monitor and lie board fitting.
  • BMCBMC Members Posts: 3,645 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Video was twice as long as it needed to be. Wait til you hit off real turf and his toe digs in. Lie is a bit overrated as how often do you get a perfect lie?
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  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 8, 2019 11:14am #9
    BMC wrote:


    Video was twice as long as it needed to be. Wait til you hit off real turf and his toe digs in. Lie is a bit overrated as how often do you get a perfect lie?




    What we saw. was a player who played FLAT without a real need, he did that to fix a swing flaw, and thats NOT what lie angles should be used for, so to compensate for a to fast wrist action who can and should be taken care off, the player went 2 flat to correct ball flight to correct a fault who really is face to close to path...



    What they did not mention was, if lie angle is OFF, we have issues making impact at sweetspot, and this player showed that too, so he is loosing ball speed, spin and distance since he is to lazy to correct a swing flaw, and misused lie angle to get flight right.



    thats why i say its a myth that ball light dont lie, this was the school example of it, using one parameter to fix another, so he did not fix any problems at all, but we get to see what it was, a face angle way to closed at impact vs what it should have been, and here so bad i would have sent the player for lessons to get it fixed. i would NEVER use 2 flat to fix a face angle issue, that should be done by grip size and grip shape, the hands them self and how we place them on the grip, how we address the ball etc....thats NOT Lie angle issues at all, they are player related, but can be adjusted on the equipment, but lie angle is NOT where we tweak that



    This player seems to have been playing clubs too flat, and that has cause a swing flaw (compensation by more face close up to get ball flight right), and now he dont want to or is not able to change to what it should have been, his "compensative moves" is stuck in his body, he keeps doing them on pure "body memory", so he want be able to adapt to playing correct lies = his impact will still suffer due to that.
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,675 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    He is indeed using it to correct a flaw, but he literally can't play golf with a 4* upright lie angle at this moment, as shown. He's playing off scratch with his flaw, and he's not getting paid to play. So who cares what's "right" and "wrong" with respect to his club specs. I'm sure he is working on getting that handle raising & flip action to stop, and as he's progressing, he can slowly make his clubs more upright.



    Isn't the goal to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible? Fitting should be based around our swing and what's working at that moment, not some kind of idealized characteristics. If it was, nobody should go get fit until you swing 120 with driver, with perfect AoA, face to path and club path direction. If you change your swing... go get refit. Rinse & repeat until your game & swing is at a point where you are content. I think the point of their video is to just show us simply that the lie board is really just part of the equation of fitting for iron lie angle. You need to factor in your swing [flaws] and understand how you strike the ball, too.
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  • Adam CAdam C Members Posts: 474 ✭✭✭✭
    People need to take these videos for what they are, a combination of propaganda and marketing for their fitting business. Most of the videos hammer down on 3 points. First, everyone needs elaborate GC Quad based full set fittings. Second, whatever methods and equipment they are using are the very best. Third, everyone would benefit from upgrading to a $350 or more composite shaft (usually the very latest, most expensive, or most exotic brand).



    That being said, they aren't doing anything different from anyone else in the golf business making claims about new and better equipment, technology, etc.
  • BrianMcGBrianMcG Members Posts: 2,370 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    I guess it must be the accent that makes people believe anything.



    So this guy has learned to compensate for clubs that are too flat by hooding the club face at impact. Effectively turning a 6-iron into a closed 5.
    Walter: Tell me Bobby, why do you play this game?
    Bobby: I play because I love it.
    Walter: Well I play for the money. I have to win. That is why every time we face each other I will always beat you.
  • Howard JonesHoward Jones Members Posts: 9,165 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    He is indeed using it to correct a flaw, but he literally can't play golf with a 4* upright lie angle at this moment, as shown. He's playing off scratch with his flaw, and he's not getting paid to play. So who cares what's "right" and "wrong" with respect to his club specs. I'm sure he is working on getting that handle raising & flip action to stop, and as he's progressing, he can slowly make his clubs more upright.



    Isn't the goal to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible? Fitting should be based around our swing and what's working at that moment, not some kind of idealized characteristics. If it was, nobody should go get fit until you swing 120 with driver, with perfect AoA, face to path and club path direction. If you change your swing... go get refit. Rinse & repeat until your game & swing is at a point where you are content. I think the point of their video is to just show us simply that the lie board is really just part of the equation of fitting for iron lie angle. You need to factor in your swing [flaws] and understand how you strike the ball, too.




    You dont seems to understand my point at all



    # 1 this company promote FITTING

    ...., but what we saw was misuse of lie angles to fix a swing flaw, and yes that can be done temporary, but is that club fitting of lie angles? no it was a fix of a swing flaw using lie angles to fix it.



    # 2

    Equipment FORCE the player...so by changing club specs we can tweak the player back to whats right, and yes, in the end its about how many, but if thats all you care about, DONT mention fitting at all, but when they move into that area (its their living), we talk MORE than scoring, and we use club specs to get the players swing to become good, here it was used to keep status Q who was no good, and thats kind of "anti fitting" in my book.



    For drivers we should involve face angle at address, for most thats out of the question because they cant stand the look of a open or closed face, bit this player should consider that instead of mis-using lie angles like he does, it prevent him from his best score even as a scratch player...
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,253 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 8, 2019 12:48pm #14
    I disliked this video for so many reasons, many of which Howard touched on, but the one thing we are all left with is.....



    Do we fit someone’s lie based on his actual ball flight and his swing flaws RIGHT NOW or do we try to give him what SHOULD work if the swing flaws and/or path flaws didn’t exist??



    Quite the quandary. Ian admittedly sweeps at it hard from the inside and aggressively flips closed through impact. He obviously has great eye hand coordination and has been doing it a very long time so he is “used to” clubs that in reality SHOULD be dramatically too flat for him. The fact is, given his current grooved but flawed swing, the flat clubs clearly work just fine for him.



    So....Do you change the clubs and “force” him to correct the swing flaws or do you simply accept what he is doing and make the clubs work for his current swing? Sort of like the age old “chicken or the egg” question.



    I haven’t actively fitted since the 90’s, But I honestly would have to say that if someone comes to be fitted and has no intention of changing anything in their swing, then just make the darn clubs work for the current swing. There really is no reason to give him clubs that SHOULD fit him after he changes his swing, because most people never actually change their swing!! They may say they are changing their swing, but few really do.



    I’ve recently experienced exactly the problem that is illustrated here. I have a mid handicaper friend that we used face impact tape and a marked ball to Dynamically fit his lie and it appeared his clubs were clearly 2 degrees too flat, but he also has very obvious swing flaws that should be addressed. We bent the irons 2 up and it absolutely destroyed his 12 handicap game. Left, left, left . It was just hideous. The clubs technically “fit” him, he just had a closed face move through the ball that would not tolerate the clubs at a “proper” lie angle. He is a once a week “league golfer” had no intention of getting better or taking lessons so We bent them back. Problem solved immediately. Very eye opening.



    I guess I must admit that there are situations were “ill fitting” clubs should just be left alone..
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Lets also not forget that if someone is consistently missing in the pull/draw direction, they can simply address the ball with a more open face
  • JagpilotohioJagpilotohio 45+ inch drivers are evil. Columbus, OHMembers Posts: 7,253 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 8, 2019 12:18pm #16
    BrianMcG wrote:


    I guess it must be the accent that makes people believe anything.



    So this guy has learned to compensate for clubs that are too flat by hooding the club face at impact. Effectively turning a 6-iron into a closed 5.




    Yep. The good old accent must do it.



    I’ve caught so many technical things in his videos that are either unclear, very poorly explained, or dead wrong and when you bring it up all of his new fans jump on you like they want to beat you up through the computer screen.



    I fully expect now to be called various names and be berated for being a “hater”, but I assure everyone I’m not. For the most part I like the videos, but there are definitely errors and poor explanations on a regular basis.
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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Cwebb wrote:


    Lets also not forget that if someone is consistently missing in the pull/draw direction, they can simply address the ball with a more open face




    It could also make it worse. Most people who hook/over draw do so because of an extreme path to the right. If they face is too open they can start hitting big blocks, then compensate by shutting down the face and bring in the ol snapper.
  • Z1ggy16Z1ggy16 Members Posts: 7,675 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 8, 2019 12:38pm #18

    Z1ggy16 wrote:


    He is indeed using it to correct a flaw, but he literally can't play golf with a 4* upright lie angle at this moment, as shown. He's playing off scratch with his flaw, and he's not getting paid to play. So who cares what's "right" and "wrong" with respect to his club specs. I'm sure he is working on getting that handle raising & flip action to stop, and as he's progressing, he can slowly make his clubs more upright.



    Isn't the goal to get the ball in the hole in as few strokes as possible? Fitting should be based around our swing and what's working at that moment, not some kind of idealized characteristics. If it was, nobody should go get fit until you swing 120 with driver, with perfect AoA, face to path and club path direction. If you change your swing... go get refit. Rinse & repeat until your game & swing is at a point where you are content. I think the point of their video is to just show us simply that the lie board is really just part of the equation of fitting for iron lie angle. You need to factor in your swing [flaws] and understand how you strike the ball, too.




    You dont seems to understand my point at all



    # 1 this company promote FITTING

    ...., but what we saw was misuse of lie angles to fix a swing flaw, and yes that can be done temporary, but is that club fitting of lie angles? no it was a fix of a swing flaw using lie angles to fix it.



    # 2

    Equipment FORCE the player...so by changing club specs we can tweak the player back to whats right, and yes, in the end its about how many, but if thats all you care about, DONT mention fitting at all, but when they move into that area (its their living), we talk MORE than scoring, and we use club specs to get the players swing to become good, here it was used to keep status Q who was no good, and thats kind of "anti fitting" in my book.



    For drivers we should involve face angle at address, for most thats out of the question because they cant stand the look of a open or closed face, bit this player should consider that instead of mis-using lie angles like he does, it prevent him from his best score even as a scratch player...


    I mean, I'll admit my reading comprehension isn't the best in the world, but I'm pretty sure you're advocating to fit players based on what should work for them, and not actually what does. You're saying that if Ian walked in your shop with 4* toe down and a 5 yard draw that hits the green and played to scratch, you'd fit him into 4* upright irons and that would somehow, in your experience/opinion, force him into a better swing despite the fact that he'd walk out your doors with a 20 yard hook, but hey... his dynamic lie is zero'ed out so... that's good, right? Maybe he goes and gets lessons and learns to not flip the face shut and all is well. Or... he doesn't or can't, and everybody wasted their time and he's right back to 4* flat again.



    As Jag says in post #14, very few guys can truly and permanently change their swing after having done something incorrectly for so long. If we could, we'd all play off scratch and people wouldn't be tossing clubs into lakes or breaking shafts over their legs in anger as they duff another shot. Odds are Ian is going to yank the handle up and flip through impact for the foreseeable future. If he can shoot par or near par most of the time... Why does being "ill fit" into 4* flat irons matter? Does your playing partner or really anybody else care what your iron specs are if you shot E ? I wouldn't. Obviously correcting the swing and putting his irons more upright is the right thing to do, but the odds he will or has the time to do so is low.



    Again, just my .02. I don't think you need a fancy GCQ or anything to fit lie but it was there to help support their opinion.
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  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Krt22 wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:


    Lets also not forget that if someone is consistently missing in the pull/draw direction, they can simply address the ball with a more open face




    It could also make it worse. Most people who hook/over draw do so because of an extreme path to the right. If they face is too open they can start hitting big blocks, then compensate by shutting down the face and bring in the ol snapper.




    In this discussion, assuming someone is trying to reduce a closed face in relation to path....by using a flatter lie angle. My point is, lets not forget that a "standard" way to do that without changing the swing or lie angle, is by addressing the ball with a more open face
  • nostaticnostatic "i drank what?!?" Socrates lost angelesClubWRX Posts: 201 ClubWRX
    edited Mar 8, 2019 12:50pm #20
    my recent personal experience relating to this. Came back to the game after a long layoff, got fitted at one place into 0.5" long, 1 degree up (steep swing). Lie board was used. Started working with a teacher, two months later was fitted again as I wanted to move to graphite shafts to try and help with some elbow issues. Different place, tape on the club face and marker used (along with Trackman). Fitted into 0.5" long, 1 degree flat. My swing had also moved to slightly inside out.



    Too many variables for me to figure out if the lie board was wrong or if the swing change over 2 months made a difference (probably a little from column A, a little from column B). At the end of the day, I just want to hit better shots. I will say the tape on the club face gave reproducible results.
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  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Im with you ziggy. I'm not a fitter but the take away from my fitting was to get equipment that works for MY swing. Trying to adapt my swing to "Correctly" fit clubs that resulted in terrible shots would be an endless losing battle. I actually posted this same topic/video on the instruction forum. I am much like Ian. I fight a hook/over draw and have toe-down strikes. The fitter recommended 2* upright based on the lie board, despite one of my main wants/desires of the fitting to be to mitigate the left miss. I ended up ordering them 1* up and so far not really liking it at all.
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Cwebb wrote:

    Krt22 wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:


    Lets also not forget that if someone is consistently missing in the pull/draw direction, they can simply address the ball with a more open face




    It could also make it worse. Most people who hook/over draw do so because of an extreme path to the right. If they face is too open they can start hitting big blocks, then compensate by shutting down the face and bring in the ol snapper.




    In this discussion, assuming someone is trying to reduce a closed face in relation to path....by using a flatter lie angle. My point is, lets not forget that a "standard" way to do that without changing the swing or lie angle, is by addressing the ball with a more open face




    That is exactly my point. The path is still a problem and opening the face doesn't fix that. I actually setup with an extremely strong grip such that it forces me to rotate through the ball vs stall/flip hook.
  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Krt22 wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:

    Krt22 wrote:

    Cwebb wrote:


    Lets also not forget that if someone is consistently missing in the pull/draw direction, they can simply address the ball with a more open face




    It could also make it worse. Most people who hook/over draw do so because of an extreme path to the right. If they face is too open they can start hitting big blocks, then compensate by shutting down the face and bring in the ol snapper.




    In this discussion, assuming someone is trying to reduce a closed face in relation to path....by using a flatter lie angle. My point is, lets not forget that a "standard" way to do that without changing the swing or lie angle, is by addressing the ball with a more open face




    That is exactly my point. The path is still a problem and opening the face doesn't fix that. I actually setup with an extremely strong grip such that it forces me to rotate through the ball vs stall/flip hook.




    I understand. In the video linked in this thread, the player showed that he has found more accurate dispersion with a flatter lie angle....a sole angle that comes through impact, toe down. He could also accomplish this, by addressing the ball with a more open face, if he wanted to or could become comfortable enough doing it
  • mizunoMX25mizunoMX25 Members Posts: 265 ✭✭✭✭
    edited Mar 8, 2019 2:31pm #24
    I got fit into 2* upright based on lie board and immediately started to hit pull hooks. I thought maybe I was just getting quick and I can hold them off but feel like I'm defending against the entire time. I'm still hiting the ball flush it is just starting left and then drawing like normal. I'm going back to standard I think.
    Titleist TS3 10.5 GD AD IZ 6S
    Titleist TS2 15* GD AD DJ 7S
    Callaway OptiForce 5W
    818H1 3H 21*
    Srixon Z785 5-AW Aerotech i110 S
    Callaway 54/58 PM Grind 2019
    Scotty Cameron Newport / Machine M2A
  • BonesawBonesaw Members Posts: 531 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Im having a hard time with the "fix your swing" argument. Is adjusting loft to lower launch/spin a bandaid also?



    Im all about the bandaids...



  • CwebbCwebb Members Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Bonesaw wrote:


    Im having a hard time with the "fix your swing" argument. Is adjusting loft to lower launch/spin a bandaid also?






    Good point. Most players on tour do something with their equipment that some may want to call a "band aid". Most of them have come to realize that the goal is not to play "swing", but do whatever it takes to accomplish consistency
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Bonesaw wrote:


    Im having a hard time with the "fix your swing" argument. Is adjusting loft to lower launch/spin a bandaid also?



    Im all about the bandaids...






    Big bandaid. Just deliver less loft at impact and you will be in good shape.
  • kro88kro88 Members Posts: 155 ✭✭✭
    this is heavy duty! good stuff, feel like Howard needs a vacation after that post.
    Bag of tricks - in Mackenzie Walker
    Driver: Ping G40 Max 10.5 w/Fuji Speeder 661 Evo IV X
    Wood: Titleist 913 F2 19 w/Diamana S+ Blue 72s - setting C1 | Titleist 975f 20.5 w/ Grafalloy ProLite S Flex
    Irons: Miura 1957 Baby Blades w/Nippon Modus 120 Stiff 4-PW std lie
    Wedges: Titleist Vokey Sm7 50 - 2 flt - 1 wk w/KBS 610 | Vokey Design V grind oil can 54 - 2 flt -1 wk w/KBS 610 | Titleist Vokey Design Low Bounc K oil can 60 -2 flt w/KBS Hi-rev | Taylormade Hi-Toe 64 w/KBS Hi-Rev
    Putter: Mizuno TPM3 33.5 Inches - SS 3.0 grip
    Ball: Titleist Pro-V1
  • baloobaloo A Person WisconsinMembers Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    The problems I see with using a lie adjustment to fix a swing flaw are:

    1. It can affect impact location on the face.

    2. The less loft on the club, the less help the lie angle "fix" gives you. Say you hit the ball with a 1* closed face. You might be able to cover that in the short irons by bending it flat, but you'll be fighting a hook with the long clubs because you haven't addressed the root cause. I guess you can play flat irons and open faced woods, but it's probably not ideal.



    I'm all for adjusting gear to make you play better, but in this case it may hinder you from playing your best IMO. play the lie angle that delivers the sole of the club level to the ground and then address face issues to correct a hook or slice.
    Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
    2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
    SW - Wilson Staff
    Putter - Bullseye
    Ball - Pro Plus

    YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf
  • baloobaloo A Person WisconsinMembers Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Krt22 wrote:


    Im with you ziggy. I'm not a fitter but the take away from my fitting was to get equipment that works for MY swing. Trying to adapt my swing to "Correctly" fit clubs that resulted in terrible shots would be an endless losing battle. I actually posted this same topic/video on the instruction forum. I am much like Ian. I fight a hook/over draw and have toe-down strikes. The fitter recommended 2* upright based on the lie board, despite one of my main wants/desires of the fitting to be to mitigate the left miss. I ended up ordering them 1* up and so far not really liking it at all.




    Recommending lies based on a lie board might be the problem. Give the above method a try. You don't even need the impact tape for an initial test. Just put a strait line on a ball, hit it, see if it's vertical or not.
    Driver, 3W, 4W - Macgregor Custom Tourney
    2-10 - 1954 Spalding Synchro Dyned
    SW - Wilson Staff
    Putter - Bullseye
    Ball - Pro Plus

    YT Channel - https://www.youtube....PlayVintageGolf
  • Krt22Krt22 East BayMembers Posts: 7,403 ✭✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Yeah I will do that this weekend.

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