Wedge yardage/trajectory questions

[Outdors21]

I am 1 handicap. I have slight OTT move and obviously that leads to a measure of steepness. My SS is 115 with a driver. but my yardages with my clubs is wonky.

7 iron: 172

8 iron: 160

9 iron: 150

PW: 140 47 degrees

GW: 118 51 degrees

SW: 100 55 degrees

LW: 80 60 degrees

 

I have enormous gaps after my PW. And I also struggle immensely flighting these clubs lower. Is that because of the steepness or something I'm doing wrong. I play a pretty straight ball to a 5 yard fade, and I know that my OTT move has led to me developing a body rotation/clubface neutral swing where I don't aggressively close the clubface with my hands after contact. No matter what I do with ball position or starting with hands ahead...my wedges still go very high and straight...but have no distance to them. I play with guys who I absolutely outhit driver/3 wood/4 iron,etc who have me by 20 yards with a SW. Any tips or ideas or anything?

[MonteScheinblum]

It’s almost surely a swing issue. Would have to see it. Nothing wrong with in in and over hand path as long as the club and shaft are moving ok.

I’m a plus handicap with 120+ Chs With driver.

7-180

8-165

9-150

PW-135

GW-125

Sw-110

LW-95

When I get too vertical with the shaft in transition, ball goes High and and short with 3 wedges.

 

If your buddies hit SW 120, theyre hitting them way too hard.

 

[xmanhockey7]

You must be playing with some solid players if 120 SW is a stock shot for them. You likely are not delofting the clubs enough at impact which results in high shots that don't go far. Keep in mind as loft is added speed send the ball more up, not out. Try some 3/4 punch type wedges. See if that helps start to flight it down.

[Outdors21]

I got my one and only lesson in 2017 in Phoenix with Matt Trimble...focused mostly on long irons I was really struggling with at the time. He mentioned something about the adjustments I should work on may negatively affect my clubs down the bag until I was able to lock everything in. Job ended there and never got back to him though. Does a flatter approach into the ball by its very essence allow for more trajectory control? I would assume yes but have honestly never seen it spelled out in black and white.

[Outdors21]

Decent players. Less than 5 handicap guys. I can bomb it past them with the long stuff, but they're able to hit it much farther at the bottom of the bag. I realize Monte says they're overcooking it...but these guys are good with these clubs...not loose or poor distance control. Just baffles me a bit.

[trilerian]

I'm a much higher cap, so take this for what it is worth. Don't worry about full swings with your wedges, seriously, who cares how far your wedges go. I would make your PW, the last full swing club in your bag. Learn to hit 1/2-2/3 swing wedge shots and 8i, 9i. You will find you can cover all your short distances with those swings and clubs. Plus the swings are not as hard and fast, which will help produce lower flighted shots. I play em back in the stance just a bit, just on the right side of center stance, and still get plenty of spin. I play with a couple of guys who swing all out on their wedges, hit em a mile too. But their distance control is horrible. On the other hand, there was a +2 I used to play with, I asked him what his favorite yardage was once. He said 107 yds. I though that was a very odd yardage, but he followed that with, "it's my half swing pw". His driver carried 290 and his 7i was about 190.

[SNIPERBBB]

Are they using set wedges or specialty wedges, ie vokeys, cg15,0etc.?

[Obee]

With your clubhead speed, there is something wrong with those numbers are the bottom of the bag for sure. 55* SW should be 105 to 115. 60* LW should be 90 - 105. The lower end of the numbers would be if you have a higher, softer ball flight, and the higher numbers would be if you are more of a middle of the stance or slightly back "penetrating" wedge ball-flight guy. And those are just ranges, of course.

One thing you might benefit from is to experiment with just how low and how far you can hit your wedges. When I was younger, my 56* SW, in the summer, was a comfortable (but aggressive) 108 - 110 carry club for me, and I was only a 110 clubhead speed guy, at most. I've also always been a "trapper" of the ball and fell in love early with low-flight, high-spin wedge shots, so I've always hit my lofted clubs as far as players with higher clubhead speed.

I'm not saying that you need to hit your SW 115 and your LW 105, but you would very likely benefit from learning how to hit your wedges that far. In order to do so, you will very likely need to make some pretty significant changes to both your set-up and impact positions -- changes that would likely benefit you over time throughout the bag, if you can figure them out.

EDITED:

One other thing you might want to consider is to think "DRAW" with your short irons. Lots of elite players and pros play a straightish ball to a cut with their longer clubs and then (mostly) draw their short irons. I watched Freddy Couples play a couple rounds many years ago and it seems like every drive and long iron was a beautiful power-fade, and then every shot from 85 to 140 was a tight little draw to even a bit of a hook sometimes to left pins.

[Outdors21]

I 100% believe you are correct or on the right path. And this is my concern. With my current swing...one that has legitimately kept me around scratch most of my adult life...a lower controlled draw shot is just not one I have in the bag. Can I hit draws and hooks with my long clubs in to much more vague targets? Absolutely. But the second I need to control the trajectory plus the distance and draw it with a lofted club? Not a chance in hell. So, it could be this is just something I must accept with my current swing limitations or I'm looking at an entire year down/rebuild ...which I'm not sure I have the time or money for lol

[Outdors21]

Definitely "specialty" starting with gap wedges.

[MelloYello]

I'm a 7-handicap and wedges are my strength. Here are some of my yardges: 160 (7i), 150 (8i), 140 (9i), 130 (Pw), 115 (52*), 105 (56*), 95 (60*). Notice that my wedge yardages are somewhat strong relative to my regular iron distances. If I ever need to add an additional 5-yds to my wedges I can easily do it. A 100-yd LW is never a problem if I have to do it. Remember that in theory, yardage with a lofted club should never be the limitation (because you can always de-loft the club or toe-it in to create a slight hook!).

 

What I notice most in observing other golfers is that most players mistakenly grip (and strike) their wedges from an open position. If the ball is going high, floating and sliding to the right, I can about promise you that the face is open as it's coming down into impact. You'll never be a good wedge player doing that aside from the occasional lob or flop shot.

Best piece of advice I can give without commenting on your actual swing is to remind you that when you're playing the ball from the back-half of your stance a square club-face is actually going to appear closed. I think this illusion is what leads many golfers to (mistakenly) set up open with short irons and wedges and swing across the ball thereby hitting a weak cut. And again, unless you're hitting a lob or flop shot there is NEVER a reason to cut a wedge. EVER!

To fix it, go to the range with your GW and grip it strong. Toe it in if need be. Get used to seeing it addressed in a more square position. It may seem closed at first but so be it. Force yourself to hit (smooth) shots with a mid-traj and a slight draw. This should happen as a matter of course. It doesn't require anything special to hit a tight little draw with your GW. In fact, anything else and you're doing something wrong. I can promise you that as a good wedge player if I EVER see a full wedge sliding to the right it's because I've mis-hit it. And it's a terrible feeling to see a wedge falling to the right. That's one of the most disappointing misses in golf--a scoring opportunity thrown away with hacker-esque swing.

 

[Obee]

I don't think you are looking at a year at all. Maybe two to four weeks of intense experimentation and refinement, assuming a couple hours every other day.

You will likely need to make significant (and "weird feeling") changes to your ball position, where you aim, and your sight line. Everything will likely feel far more back-in-the-stance and aimed right than initially feels comfortable.

[MonteScheinblum]

Yes, 100%. A player at your skill level wouldn’t take long to make the proper change....and any Proper swing adjustment should eventually be good through the bag.

[getitdaily]

I'm a scratch/ +.5. I'm 108-110 with driver. I play a fade and my hands move OTT- slightly toward the ball in transition.

7i - 165-170

8i - 155-160

9i - 145

Pw - 135

50 - 120-125

54 - 105-110

60 - 90-95

I'd venture a guess that you're releasing early on those shorter clubs. Are you really armsy with wedges? What's your wedge miss, pull or push? Are your divots deep...like abnormally deep?

[Outdors21]

Wedge miss is high and spinny...not really directional left or right...just way too high and no distance. And yes, I very often have very deep, long divots with my SW/LW.

[Outdors21]

I think I need to get a video of my swing up. Im never good at locking in new feelings lol.

[Outdors21]

Yeah...so my swing has a lot of what was described to me as "body release" where my body turns pretty aggressively, but because of my OTT move, my hands stay pretty quiet and I don't close them quickly/aggressively.

[Ty_Webb]

Are you...me?

This is so on point with my game. I am a little slower than you - round 108 with driver. My yardages are about:

4I 195

5I 185

6I 175

7I 165

8I 152

9I 136

PW 123

52 105

56 95

My 60 when I used to use it I couldn't hit it past 70 yards.

I think that I get a little steep and a little early extensiony, which makes clubhead overtake the hands and I wind up with a fairly vertical shaft and a steep downward attack angle. All of which adds up to a very high spin loft. Basically my 60 is coming in at like 55 and down 10, so net 65*. Someone more normal might have 15* of shaft lean and be down 5, so their 60 is more like 45 and down 5, so net 50*. If I miss directionally it's a little right, so I probably have an open face at times too.

Your description sounds so familiar. If you find a cure, please tell me what it was.

[MelloYello]

I'm not a swing coach so I'm not going to say a word about mechanics but the shots you were describing were essentially slices and I see people do it all the time with their wedges. Shots go high and fall short right because people are cutting across the ball through impact which means that even a square face is open to the path of the club. That's no way to hit a wedge! So before you get all into the weeds with mechanics (ugh!) you should just learn to properly hit a good wedge shot and make an attempt to put your finger on exactly what part of the setup and routine you're not doing correctly. Quite frankly, it's hard to set up to a wedge shot correctly and not hit a draw.

Here is my checklist as I set up to my wedges:

Set up square to the target.

Put the ball slightly behind center in your stance (about 2 balls off your right instep).

Place the club behind the ball and square the face to your target (this may look closed based on what you're used to!).

Take a grip that allows you to return the club squarely back to the ball without a loopy swing. Imagine you make a 1-plane swing.

To take my grip I lean the handle forward keeping the face square so that my hands grip the club just a bit left of my zipper.

Take a strong grip (left palm facing the inside of your right thigh, right hand coming from underneath and wrapping on so the right palm faces the target).

From here all I have to do is make sure I hit the ball "from the inside." With a (short) wedge swing that's easy as cake!

Weight should be 55/45 towards the target.

On the backswing rotate back with a little wrist action early and come through allowing the clubhead to move back to the ball from the inside (which should feel very natural with the ball where it is).

Boom, easy draw. I can hit my LW 90-yards with relative ease that way and unless I hold my wrists way ahead and block the shot, the ball sure ain't going to the right. It's going to draw a little bit and because my hands were slightly ahead I've de-lofted the club enough to control the trajectory and maintain what feels like flush contact (compression).

Just make sure your head stays quiet and more/less directly over the ball. You certainly don't want it getting out in front but you can't stay too far behind or your contact with get unreliable. But with this approach I hit flush wedge shots nearly every time with almost no effort and the divots I take are still shallow. FYI, I think divots are mostly a function of where your head is in relation to the ball. Deep divots are a sign your head is too far forward and thus they can almost always be adjusted by bringing the head back just slightly.

[Outdors21]

This made me laugh. Let's go play a round and get upset at our annoying wedge game.

[Outdors21]

Ill give this a go over the weekend. Mentally, the hitting the ball from the inside sounds...difficult....due to my current swing.

[hoselpalooza]

And again, unless you're hitting a lob or flop shot there is NEVER a reason to cut a wedge. EVER!nope, not true.

you also seem to be very focused on cuts that are "high, floating and sliding to the right". as a good wedge player i'm sure you're no doubt aware of the importance of low- and medium-trajectory wedge shots, but i'm surprised you would never use a low or medium cut if course conditions or pin location called for it.

some reasons i can think of to hit a cut with a wedge:

sometimes cut spin is better for certain pin positions or landing areas. e.g. for a sucker pin on the right, aim to the middle with a bit of cut spin to get the ball closer without flirting too much with danger. or maybe cut spin is just better because of the slope of the landing zone (etc.). hold a shot up against the windtake trouble out of play. e.g. danger to the left and safe miss short and right? a cut is a safe play.reduce distance. e.g. danger is long and landing area is between clubs? open the face a little to take some distance off with your stock shot instead of a partial with too much club or trying to nuke a shorter club. increase height -- e.g. get up in the air more quickly to get over a tree.because it feels like the right shot for whatever reason.anyway, it's good you've found a rule of thumb that works for you but it's certainly not good advice for everyone.