DeNinny's Blade vs CB Experiment and Data

[gopherguts]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1399813503' post='9272717'] pics of what? [/quote]

Sorry b.h.

I highlighted it.

Hard to get through DeDrivel, isn't it ?

[bladehunter]

I have a question.....why is it that in every "which iron should I choose G25 or Karstens"? thread we never see an implosion of pointless comments derailing the discussion? And if someone where to say ask "why would you play either one there ugly"? they would be flamed out of existance instantly. Why is it people who Troll for the word "blade" in a thread are allowed to derail legitimate discussion time and time again? Same thing happens if you mention a "smaller" driver.... Its one thing to form an argument based on experience , but another all together to simply say "you cant do that your handicap is too high" That my friends is pure Bull of the smelliest variety


edit...speaking more so to a new friend we all have...but also some old ones too.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1399817847' post='9272977']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399778059' post='9271551'] [size=6][b]Ok All. I'm going to bow out of my own thread now.[/b][/size] I've said literally everything I have to say about the blades vs CB debate and so have nothing left to share in regards to personal knowledge and opinion on the matter. [/quote]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399808442' post='9272451'] [size=6][b]To All, I could not help myself[/b][/size] and come back for [size=6][b]just one more post[/b][/size] due to such an excellent question from Startzel. [/quote]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399817144' post='9272923'] gopherguts welcome back to the thread! I'm so glad you have found it productive enough to come back now after such an eloquently written and productive post as per your original I have gladly reposted below. Isn't it ironic that you would waste even more of your time and use more cyber ink to make a comment about something that was a waste of your own time? Isn't it even more ironic that you have come back several pages later? If that's not ironic, then isn't the fact that you took the trouble to use emoticons even somewhat ironic? Just a little bit? Please continue posting. I love reading your insights and real world experiences on the subject that blades will not allow you to score the best. It's entertaining at the least. [/quote]

Well, I think that despite the pros and cons of posters' points of view here in this thread I think we can all agree you offered ZERO data.

And then you ask others for it ?

And when asked for visible proof of what you say which, unlike the "data" you seek IS readily available, the answer is simply "No".

What to think, what to think ?

I've got an idea. You don't back up anything so,,,,,,,,

Why not just stick to your word ?

Then again, you couldn't "prove" your point. So why would anyone expect you to stick to your word ?
[/quote]
My "point" is clear: There's no absolute answer and it hasn't really be proven. Already you discredit what I've done yet you have provided [b]nothing in your own experience[/b]. All I'm asking is to share your own experience that justifies your position. I have already share my entire story as an example of "data", which I clarified later. It's clear to me from OldPlayer, bladeshunter, isaacbm, Mitchell that they understood which is why they essentially stated in their years of playing various different clubs the type of club didn't matter to their overall score. Read their posts. They get it. You can too. I hope.

If you don't know the meaning of irony do you know the meaning of quid pro quo?

I'm sorry for coming back. You've added so much value to this you've dragged me back! I love you man!

[bladehunter]

agreed...I don't think there is a definitive way to point to who should play what iron..I think the individual should choose it based on feel and results , but not everyone is a "feel" player..i have to constantly remind myself of that..I have guys ask me "how do you hit that flop shot" I have to stop and think about it, I don't know how I did it I just did or do. If I stop and examine it I can pick it out , but its just by feel for me initially.

I am an example ( albeit ill give you a rare one) of a 10 plus handicap playing much better with a MB. The irons did not work any magic but they do fit my swing. I had left the game at scratch 8 years ago (did not touch a club) and came back last summer. I was stuck on a 10 for 6 months and tried every iron out there. No real difference. Wide soles were worse was all that I found. Finally broke down and got some swing eval. and made a few changes, mostly to driver and putter. Shorter backswing and ball forward with driver. Scores dropped. So for all who say "a 10 cap doesn't exsist that can play MB but just cant putt or drive" I say baloney. I was one. Still cant putt if that helps. And to anyone who wants to jump the shark again and point out that I made swing changes to get down..sure I did but remember I stated 1st that I tried every iron out there to no avail and went back to my tried and true MB. Irons one style or another will not work the magic. But it does help to have the ones that fit your swing. For some of us it is a smaller shape, narrow sole and weight in the middle.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1399818219' post='9272997']
I have a question.....why is it that in every "which iron should I choose G25 or Karstens"? thread we never see an implosion of pointless comments derailing the discussion? And if someone where to say ask "why would you play either one there ugly"? they would be flamed out of existance instantly. Why is it people who Troll for the word "blade" in a thread are allowed to derail legitimate discussion time and time again? Same thing happens if you mention a "smaller" driver.... Its one thing to form an argument based on experience , but another all together to simply say "you cant do that your handicap is too high" That my friends is pure Bull of the smelliest variety


edit...speaking more so to a new friend we all have...but also some old ones too.
[/quote]

Yes the conversation has deteriorated into opinions and attempts to discredit rather than to move forward on sharing ones experience on the actual topic which at one point was a foundational element of golfwrx forums.

You have now pushed me to reveal[b] my true experiment: this thread and all you posters[/b]. I wanted to expose all the naysayers with this thread and guide them to rationally discuss this topic and see who would really come out and say they know for a fact that they score lowest with CBs/GIs. Instead posts such as this. Look back at everything I wrote. I sought to guide us to the answer in a productive and positive way. My story is just that. My own and it seems to some that I have, to paraphrase one poster, "espoused my feelings as facts". If anyone reads my posts carefully, I have never espoused anything as facts. I have espoused that there are no facts. I myself do not know the answer to the blade vs CB debate other than the CB is more forgiving. All I know is my experience myself. Once again, no one, not me, not you, not anyone has yet to provide some true statistical facts on this issue. Which is why it is constantly up for debate.

I will say that hearing everyone else's stories, those that shared, was entertaining and at the very least reinforces my position that there is no absolute on this issue.

And to conclude my real experiment: even I cannot create a blade vs CB debate that doesn't degenerate into a war.

...And the beat goes on...

[gopherguts]

[Startzel]

[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3BDeNinny%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399808442' post='9272451']
To All,
I could not help myself and come back for just one more post due to such an excellent question from Startzel. Since this thread is rather long now and not all of you and new readers may have read everything, and as the OP wanting this debate to continue efficiently, I ask that in continuing to converse with Startzel you first read all of his previous posts and see to that your own questions are sufficiently answered. Throughout this thread he seems to ignore your own questions and yet persist with his own. If you don't want to read back, let me highlight one thing: He has yet to answer the basic question that is core to the spirit of this thread which is can he provide his own real world experience and "data" as I defined it, comparing a MB club and a CB/GI club side by side, with no other variables, that clearly showed the CB/GI club allowed him to score better? Don't you think that is fair? Instead the conversation with him steers toward the forgiveness route which is not the purpose of this thread.

Carry on...
My answer is no.
[/quote]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

I'm not going to bother wasting my time answering loaded questions. I'm smart enough to understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't add much value to an argument. Usually it detracts value from the argument.

I'm not surprised by your response that you won't show a picture of your face wear on your blades. I think we all can safely assume why you won't. However, isn't it funny in the thread titled "Experiment and Data" that you refuse to provide an actual credible piece of evidence?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1399819151' post='9273063']
agreed...I don't think there is a definitive way to point to who should play what iron..I think the individual should choose it based on feel and results , but not everyone is a "feel" player..i have to constantly remind myself of that..I have guys ask me "how do you hit that flop shot" I have to stop and think about it, I don't know how I did it I just did or do. If I stop and examine it I can pick it out , but its just by feel for me initially.

I am an example ( albeit ill give you a rare one) of a 10 plus handicap playing much better with a MB. The irons did not work any magic but they do fit my swing. I had left the game at scratch 8 years ago (did not touch a club) and came back last summer. I was stuck on a 10 for 6 months and tried every iron out there. No real difference. Wide soles were worse was all that I found. Finally broke down and got some swing eval. and made a few changes, mostly to driver and putter. Shorter backswing and ball forward with driver. Scores dropped. So for all who say "a 10 cap doesn't exsist that can play MB but just cant putt or drive" I say baloney. I was one. Still cant putt if that helps. And to anyone who wants to jump the shark again and point out that I made swing changes to get down..sure I did but remember I stated 1st that I tried every iron out there to no avail and went back to my tried and true MB. Irons one style or another will not work the magic. But it does help to have the ones that fit your swing. For some of us it is a smaller shape, narrow sole and weight in the middle.
[/quote]

gopherguts and Startzel this is a fine example of sharing one's experience as a contribution to this thread. See how he goes into detail on how he came to his own conclusions as to why he may score better with a MB? Did you have a similar experience as him but found a CB was different? How about OldPlayer's 20 years of experience trying different clubs? Do you have such experience? Do share.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1399819888' post='9273117']
[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3BDeNinny%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399808442' post='9272451']
To All,
I could not help myself and come back for just one more post due to such an excellent question from Startzel. Since this thread is rather long now and not all of you and new readers may have read everything, and as the OP wanting this debate to continue efficiently, I ask that in continuing to converse with Startzel you first read all of his previous posts and see to that your own questions are sufficiently answered. Throughout this thread he seems to ignore your own questions and yet persist with his own. If you don't want to read back, let me highlight one thing: He has yet to answer the basic question that is core to the spirit of this thread which is can he provide his own real world experience and "data" as I defined it, comparing a MB club and a CB/GI club side by side, with no other variables, that clearly showed the CB/GI club allowed him to score better? Don't you think that is fair? Instead the conversation with him steers toward the forgiveness route which is not the purpose of this thread.

Carry on...
My answer is no.
[/quote]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

I'm not going to bother wasting my time answering loaded questions. I'm smart enough to understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't add much value to an argument. Usually it detracts value from the argument.

I'm not surprised by your response that you won't show a picture of your face wear on your blades. I think we all can safely assume why you won't. However, isn't it funny in the thread titled "Experiment and Data" that you refuse to provide an actual credible piece of evidence?
[/quote]

So it's back to this again. It's funny you post now about data yet I answered the question earlier as a direct response to one of yours. It seems now you are not really reading this thread and yet continue to post to it with such vigor!

[b]I don't have any credible evidence[/b] by your definition. I have my story. I hope you have enjoyed your time posting here. In posting I've learned there's [b]no credible evidence. From anybody. Only OldPlayers 20 years trying every type of club on the planet comes even close to a credible source of "data". Only more stories and a lot of opinion. Including yours.[/b] Thank you for continuing to support my real experiment by continuing to post. By the way I clarified and apologized for the title of my thread earlier. In fact it was in response your where's the data question. Did you not remember we have already resolved your concern with this?

[Startzel]

[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3Bbladehunter%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399818219' post='9272997']
I have a question.....why is it that in every "which iron should I choose G25 or Karstens"? thread we never see an implosion of pointless comments derailing the discussion? And if someone where to say ask "why would you play either one there ugly"? they would be flamed out of existance instantly. Why is it people who Troll for the word "blade" in a thread are allowed to derail legitimate discussion time and time again? Same thing happens if you mention a "smaller" driver.... Its one thing to form an argument based on experience , but another all together to simply say "you cant do that your handicap is too high" That my friends is pure Bull of the smelliest variety


edit...speaking more so to a new friend we all have...but also some old ones too.
[/quote]

Most likely because the G15 and Karsten threads the OPs are actually seeking valuable information. These blade threads are merely "look at me" threads.

But you raise an interesting question. Do any of you blades users actually use the older style small head drivers? Or has everyone gone to the more forgiving 460 cc heads?

[isaacbm]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1399819888' post='9273117']
[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3BDeNinny%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399808442' post='9272451']
To All,
I could not help myself and come back for just one more post due to such an excellent question from Startzel. Since this thread is rather long now and not all of you and new readers may have read everything, and as the OP wanting this debate to continue efficiently, I ask that in continuing to converse with Startzel you first read all of his previous posts and see to that your own questions are sufficiently answered. Throughout this thread he seems to ignore your own questions and yet persist with his own. If you don't want to read back, let me highlight one thing: He has yet to answer the basic question that is core to the spirit of this thread which is can he provide his own real world experience and "data" as I defined it, comparing a MB club and a CB/GI club side by side, with no other variables, that clearly showed the CB/GI club allowed him to score better? Don't you think that is fair? Instead the conversation with him steers toward the forgiveness route which is not the purpose of this thread.

Carry on...
My answer is no.
[/quote]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

I'm not going to bother wasting my time answering loaded questions. I'm smart enough to understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't add much value to an argument. Usually it detracts value from the argument.

I'm not surprised by your response that you won't show a picture of your face wear on your blades. I think we all can safely assume why you won't. However, isn't it funny in the thread titled "Experiment and Data" that you refuse to provide an actual credible piece of evidence?
[/quote]
Startzel, this is where you prove that you completely miss the point. There is no argument, well not until people like you made one out of something else. The point was to discuss our personal experiences. The point was not to define the "truth". The OP would have been better off to not use "DATA" in his original post but he's more than cleared that up at this point.

The whole point was to discuss anecdotal "evidence". You say you're "smart enough to understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't add value to an argument, it usually detracts from it."

I say you're clearly not even smart enough to realize that there isn't an argument!

You are the classic example of someone that is either just arguing for the sake of arguing, or you simply have poor reading comprehension skills. The point of this thread is to discuss personal experiences with blade vs CB's and demonstrate through those stories why a blade might be better for an individual. You seem to think the point is to prove that a CB is more forgiving.

I can post wear spots of my clubs. What does that prove? It proves that I hit the center of the club fairly often. Does that directly translate to lower scores? Well that's the something that can be discussed.

Someone asking for personal experiences seems like a reasonable thread to me.

Why do you think it's about defining the forgiveness of a blade?
Re-read the first post

[DeNinny]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1399823676' post='9273393']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1399819888' post='9273117']
[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3BDeNinny%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399808442' post='9272451']
To All,
I could not help myself and come back for just one more post due to such an excellent question from Startzel. Since this thread is rather long now and not all of you and new readers may have read everything, and as the OP wanting this debate to continue efficiently, I ask that in continuing to converse with Startzel you first read all of his previous posts and see to that your own questions are sufficiently answered. Throughout this thread he seems to ignore your own questions and yet persist with his own. If you don't want to read back, let me highlight one thing: He has yet to answer the basic question that is core to the spirit of this thread which is can he provide his own real world experience and "data" as I defined it, comparing a MB club and a CB/GI club side by side, with no other variables, that clearly showed the CB/GI club allowed him to score better? Don't you think that is fair? Instead the conversation with him steers toward the forgiveness route which is not the purpose of this thread.

Carry on...
My answer is no.
[/quote]

Have you stopped beating your wife?

I'm not going to bother wasting my time answering loaded questions. I'm smart enough to understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't add much value to an argument. Usually it detracts value from the argument.

I'm not surprised by your response that you won't show a picture of your face wear on your blades. I think we all can safely assume why you won't. However, isn't it funny in the thread titled "Experiment and Data" that you refuse to provide an actual credible piece of evidence?
[/quote]
Startzel, this is where you prove that you completely miss the point. There is no argument, well not until people like you made one out of something else. The point was to discuss our personal experiences. The point was not to define the "truth". The OP would have been better off to not use "DATA" in his original post but he's more than cleared that up at this point.

The whole point was to discuss anecdotal "evidence". You say you're "smart enough to understand that anecdotal evidence doesn't add value to an argument, it usually detracts from it."

I say you're clearly not even smart enough to realize that there isn't an argument!

You are the classic example of someone that is either just arguing for the sake of arguing, or you simply have poor reading comprehension skills. The point of this thread is to discuss personal experiences with blade vs CB's and demonstrate through those stories why a blade might be better for an individual. You seem to think the point is to prove that a CB is more forgiving.

I can post wear spots of my clubs. What does that prove? It proves that I hit the center of the club fairly often. Does that directly translate to lower scores? Well that's the something that can be discussed.

Someone asking for personal experiences seems like a reasonable thread to me.

Why do you think it's about defining the forgiveness of a blade?
Re-read the first post
[/quote]

isaacbm I cannot thank you enough for you taking the trouble and time to post this, in particular to emphasize rereading my first post, as per standard forum etiquette when entering an OPs thread. It's members like you that keep me coming back here. I have read many of your posts and know you are a very constructive, humorous, intelligent, skilled, and role model member and will again thank you for your constructive contributions to this thread. Beyond your own real world experiences, your insight into the mathematics of the insignificance of it all was genius.

On the flipside, it is members like these, gopherguts and Stratzel, that continually take down the productivity and, even more, the enjoyment of reading on golfwrx that sometime challenge my willingness to stay a member. If you read my posts carefully, you'll see that they have been invited and encouraged repeatedly by me throughout this thread to contribute positively and I honestly wanted to hear their experiences, but yet their posts become about their agenda. What they don't understand is that I already knew, before I created this thread, that they like to make the threads about them. And you know what I did? I did! The more they post the more they demonstrate this conduct. It's hilarious. I have not have this much fun posting to golfwrx in years! I have been thoroughly entertained, as has my wife. It's a study of internet social dynamics at its finest. I hope all the readers have enjoyed this thread too for their posts.

Lastly, I have thought of another reason for this worthless thread: let it be a model study of golfwrx forum conduct and etiquette. I challenge all the readers. Read my posts carefully, in full detail, think about how everything is worded and highlighted. I have been playing with these trolls all along, encouraging them to stay positive and on topic. Yet they continue to demonstrate how unproductive they are. I don't want people like this on golfwrx. Do they demonstrate proper etiquette and is my observation wrong? Have I been out of line as an OP? Have I not tried to conduct this thread the way they should be conducted?

Before you respond. Read all my words in this thread carefully. I've meant every one of them and I'm frankly tired of being taken out of context by trolls.

[deck]

I can say from my own experience being a 9 right now. Actually I'm dropping to close to an 8 this year. Ranging from 9-15 handicap on misses is going to be a long way off on what people are looking for. When I was a 15 my misses were all over the face. High, low, heel and toe. Now being more consistent with my game the last couple years misses are high and low. Not so much toe or heel anymore. I would say my wear spots are now the size of a JFK half dollar.

The argument won't ever end. When it comes down to it the aesthetics of a club to each individual really comes into play. It does have a lot to do with it. That was told to me by someone who has over 30 years in the industry ranging from designing all types of clubs, fitting and building. So I will take his opinion over a random person on the internet.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='deck' timestamp='1399826668' post='9273643']
I can say from my own experience being a 9 right now. Actually I'm dropping to close to an 8 this year. Ranging from 9-15 handicap on misses is going to be a long way off on what people are looking for. When I was a 15 my misses were all over the face. High, low, heel and toe. Now being more consistent with my game the last couple years misses are high and low. Not so much toe or heel anymore. I would say my wear spots are now the size of a JFK half dollar.

The argument won't ever end. When it comes down to it the aesthetics of a club to each individual really comes into play. It does have a lot to do with it. That was told to me by someone who has over 30 years in the industry ranging from designing all types of clubs, fitting and building. So I will take his opinion over a random person on the internet.
[/quote]

Thank you for following the spirit of this thread and welcome.

Would you also take his opinion over the marketing hype as well?

[Geohans]

[quote name='fairwaysroverated' timestamp='1399779835' post='9271679']
It seems like there's 2 different sides to this thing. [b]Some people seem to be saying that they hit blades better, not that they are more forgiving. Which would lead to it being a mental thing.[/b] Others are saying people are saying blades are more forgiving than CB's. I think everyone here can obviously understand that CB, GI and SGI are more forgiving than blades, BUT some people have more confidence with a blade in their hand due to the results when they hit it. A CB, GI, SGI WILL hit the ball higher in the air regardless of where you hit it on the face, further, and to a degree straighter (unless the face isn't square) than a blade.
[/quote]

This is correct. Anyone saying blades are more "forgiving" (which I do not say) needs to define the term "forgiving." I've defined "forgiving" as a marketing term for a collection of fixes designed to sell golf clubs-- some of which may help some golfers, and some of which may hurt some golfers.

Arguing that using a more "forgiving" club head will benefit all or nearly all golfers is like saying all golfers would be better off with a stiffer shaft. Or a softer shaft. Will nearly all golfers benefit from more offset? If you think so, please tell me why.

And it's not JUST a "mental thing." It's physical: turf interaction, offset, COG all affect ball striking. But the mental thing is huge: ultimately it's about the golfer's anticipation of a good shot. The vivid image of a well struck shot is a powerful tool. Iron Byron doesn't experience it.

If you anticipate better golf results with G25s, you'll probably fulfill your vision. Likewise with MP67s.

[Geohans]

Allow me to add that the thread was indeed meant to be about people sharing their own experiences, playing GIs vs traditional heads.

I got much better while playing MP32s.

That is a statement that contributes to the thread. It's true for me.

If someone comes in and says they tried players' clubs and scored worse, that would be interesting.

If you come in to say it's NOT POSSIBLE that a good number of golfers play better with traditional club heads (those lacking the current marketing features which are referred to as "forgiving"), then you haven't really contributed. You should start a different thread.

[bladehunter]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1399821173' post='9273231']
[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3Bbladehunter%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399818219' post='9272997']
I have a question.....why is it that in every "which iron should I choose G25 or Karstens"? thread we never see an implosion of pointless comments derailing the discussion? And if someone where to say ask "why would you play either one there ugly"? they would be flamed out of existance instantly. Why is it people who Troll for the word "blade" in a thread are allowed to derail legitimate discussion time and time again? Same thing happens if you mention a "smaller" driver.... Its one thing to form an argument based on experience , but another all together to simply say "you cant do that your handicap is too high" That my friends is pure Bull of the smelliest variety


edit...speaking more so to a new friend we all have...but also some old ones too.
[/quote]

Most likely because the G15 and Karsten threads the OPs are actually seeking valuable information. These blade threads are merely "look at me" threads.

But you raise an interesting question. Do any of you blades users actually use the older style small head drivers? Or has everyone gone to the more forgiving 460 cc heads?
[/quote]



Yes , I am one who left the game playing a 975D titleist driver at 260CC and came back to everything being 460cc..I hate them...I am playing the 430 sldr now but wish it were smaller...Im plotting a sldr Mini purchase but I only want a head and will add my own shaft. so im waiting for a used one or a sale..Its TM products so its only a short wait. For me its the ease of swing of a smaller head. But I know im in the minority, but am not alone.

[DocHogan]

Ive not read this whole thread but I will only add this. Does it really matter??? If he likes blades and he feels they are more forgiving to him them good for him. I love blades. Love them. Nothing better than standing on the range and hitting shot after shot with blades. However, when on the course especially in a tournament Ill take a little bit more offset and more bounce on my iron. Therefor, I currently play a cb. Will I go back one day? Maybe, I would love too but they just don't suit my current game or confidence level. As far as the smaller cc driver. I'm currently looking at going back to the smaller cc and shorter shafted driver. I've never really been able to get along with the modern day drivers. Again does that mean I'm better or worse than you? No, and personally I don't care. Everyone chill and enjoy golf and play what you want, just let me hit whats in your bag so I can get my fix.

[Geohans]

[quote name='bladehunter' timestamp='1399830042' post='9273887']
[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1399821173' post='9273231']
[quote name=%26amp%3B%2339%3Bbladehunter%26amp%3B%2339%3B timestamp='1399818219' post='9272997']
I have a question.....why is it that in every "which iron should I choose G25 or Karstens"? thread we never see an implosion of pointless comments derailing the discussion? And if someone where to say ask "why would you play either one there ugly"? they would be flamed out of existance instantly. Why is it people who Troll for the word "blade" in a thread are allowed to derail legitimate discussion time and time again? Same thing happens if you mention a "smaller" driver.... Its one thing to form an argument based on experience , but another all together to simply say "you cant do that your handicap is too high" That my friends is pure Bull of the smelliest variety


edit...speaking more so to a new friend we all have...but also some old ones too.
[/quote]

Most likely because the G15 and Karsten threads the OPs are actually seeking valuable information. These blade threads are merely "look at me" threads.

But you raise an interesting question. Do any of you blades users actually use the older style small head drivers? Or has everyone gone to the more forgiving 460 cc heads?
[/quote]



Yes , I am one who left the game playing a 975D titleist driver at 260CC and came back to everything being 460cc..I hate them...I am playing the 430 sldr now but wish it were smaller...Im plotting a sldr Mini purchase but I only want a head and will add my own shaft. so im waiting for a used one or a sale..Its TM products so its only a short wait. For me its the ease of swing of a smaller head. But I know im in the minority, but am not alone.
[/quote]

Bladehunter, your experience is pretty unique. . . . . .

The question is a technique designed to lead us all to the logical conclusion that if we use a 460cc driver, we should be questioning our own consistency. We should conclude we are hypocrites or idiots for not using the same approach for pitching wedge as we use for driver.

As if iron play and driver play were the same.

Personally, I use a tee when using my driver.

I would suggest that if I wanted to play my driver off the deck today, I would use one similar in size to the one I used the last time I tried that trick.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='DocHogan' timestamp='1399831142' post='9273991']
Ive not read this whole thread but I will only add this. Does it really matter??? If he likes blades and he feels they are more forgiving to him them good for him. I love blades. Love them. Nothing better than standing on the range and hitting shot after shot with blades. However, when on the course especially in a tournament Ill take a little bit more offset and more bounce on my iron. Therefor, I currently play a cb. Will I go back one day? Maybe, I would love too but they just don't suit my current game or confidence level. As far as the smaller cc driver. I'm currently looking at going back to the smaller cc and shorter shafted driver. I've never really been able to get along with the modern day drivers. Again does that mean I'm better or worse than you? No, and personally I don't care Everyone chill and enjoy golf and play what you want, just let me hit whats in your bag so I can get my fix.
[/quote]

Finally someone who gets it! It really doesn't matter, but see all the interest and passion there is out there. For what? To proclaim yourself "right" or someone else "wrong" to people you don't know and don't know you?

I posted earlier that I post either to share my personal opinion or experience (as simply that, not fact) or what was the other? To jest with another member. That's the other half of this. I'm having fun with it and I hope everyone reading this has enjoyed it. I haven't been around golfwrx as much because as a lot of oldsters know the same threads go round and round and it gets boring especially this topic. I came back recently and decided to create this thread to stir it up a little and see if we can get beyond the debate.

Thanks for your constructive comments! I completely understand why you play cbs and likely why there's a high percentage on the tour that do.

[deck]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399828105' post='9273749'][quote name='deck' timestamp='1399826668' post='9273643']
I can say from my own experience being a 9 right now. Actually I'm dropping to close to an 8 this year. Ranging from 9-15 handicap on misses is going to be a long way off on what people are looking for. When I was a 15 my misses were all over the face. High, low, heel and toe. Now being more consistent with my game the last couple years misses are high and low. Not so much toe or heel anymore. I would say my wear spots are now the size of a JFK half dollar.

The argument won't ever end. When it comes down to it the aesthetics of a club to each individual really comes into play. It does have a lot to do with it. That was told to me by someone who has over 30 years in the industry ranging from designing all types of clubs, fitting and building. So I will take his opinion over a random person on the internet.
[/quote]

Thank you for following the spirit of this thread and welcome.

Would you also take his opinion over the marketing hype as well?[/quote]

I stopped reading his opinion. What was it?




Sent from my iPhone using GolfWRX Mobile

[DeNinny]

[quote name='deck' timestamp='1399835811' post='9274287']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399828105' post='9273749'][quote name='deck' timestamp='1399826668' post='9273643']
I can say from my own experience being a 9 right now. Actually I'm dropping to close to an 8 this year. Ranging from 9-15 handicap on misses is going to be a long way off on what people are looking for. When I was a 15 my misses were all over the face. High, low, heel and toe. Now being more consistent with my game the last couple years misses are high and low. Not so much toe or heel anymore. I would say my wear spots are now the size of a JFK half dollar.

The argument won't ever end. When it comes down to it the aesthetics of a club to each individual really comes into play. It does have a lot to do with it. That was told to me by someone who has over 30 years in the industry ranging from designing all types of clubs, fitting and building. So I will take his opinion over a random person on the internet.
[/quote]

Thank you for following the spirit of this thread and welcome.

Would you also take his opinion over the marketing hype as well?[/quote]

I stopped reading his opinion. What was it?




Sent from my iPhone using GolfWRX Mobile
[/quote]

I meant if you would believe marketing hype over the opinion of the guy you know with 30 years in the industry.

[deck]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399836278' post='9274327'][quote name='deck' timestamp='1399835811' post='9274287']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1399828105' post='9273749'][quote name='deck' timestamp='1399826668' post='9273643']
I can say from my own experience being a 9 right now. Actually I'm dropping to close to an 8 this year. Ranging from 9-15 handicap on misses is going to be a long way off on what people are looking for. When I was a 15 my misses were all over the face. High, low, heel and toe. Now being more consistent with my game the last couple years misses are high and low. Not so much toe or heel anymore. I would say my wear spots are now the size of a JFK half dollar.

The argument won't ever end. When it comes down to it the aesthetics of a club to each individual really comes into play. It does have a lot to do with it. That was told to me by someone who has over 30 years in the industry ranging from designing all types of clubs, fitting and building. So I will take his opinion over a random person on the internet.
[/quote]

Thank you for following the spirit of this thread and welcome.

Would you also take his opinion over the marketing hype as well?[/quote]

I stopped reading his opinion. What was it?




Sent from my iPhone using GolfWRX Mobile
[/quote]

I meant if you would believe marketing hype over the opinion of the guy you know with 30 years in the industry.[/quote]

Not at all. Never. Nope. Marketing is for the ill informed consumer.

Ps I also don't believe the Maltby playability factor either. Too many flaws


Sent from my iPhone using GolfWRX Mobile

[Mitchell]

To elaborate on a post I made at start of thread, one experience I attempted to relate involved my attempt to play 712 mb irons after playing 962b irons. What I found was interesting in that while set up similarly (same shaft, length, lie,grips, lofts within a degree difference), the 712 mb went significantly higher, had more offset, and turf interaction was not nearly as good. I simply could not get comfortable with fact that ball did not travel through "window" I was accustomed to seeing and that clubhead had a tendency to feel like it grabbed slightly through turf. Through 20 plus years of playing this game, I have found that I am most comfortable with irons with a narrow sole, rounded leading edge, minimal to no offset, and higher center of gravity. Does this translate to better scores? In conditions I normally play in, I may have one or two iron shots a round that require a lower trajectory so as not to be affected significantly by wind and assist in distance control, I would rather be able to control trajectory without having to make additional adjustments and calculations offset and lower cg require me to make. Will two more GIR significantly impact my score? Maybe, maybe not, but rather have the opportunity to find out. I would gladly list the iron sets I have tried and.played well/comfortably with if it will help move discussion in positive direction.

[bladehunter]

absolutely agree with you Mitchell on the 712 MB...I tried them too and they are ok..But Mizuno , Wilson or Cleveland ake a much more traditional shaped iron. Leading edge is crucial for me as well ..I found the Mizuno MP 68 mp 60 mp 32 or mp4 fit me to a T....Id also have to say the 962 and 990 are also 2 of my favorite irons of all time ..I own a set of both....so dependable , durable and as you said correct grind and offset ....cg2 CLEVELAND CB is another iron set I have that's a cult classic and still relevant today.

[Startzel]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1399823676' post='9273393']

You are the classic example of someone that is either just arguing for the sake of arguing, or you simply have poor reading comprehension skills
[/quote]

You're on the train, but on the wrong track with this. My issue in this thread is that my critical reading skills are too good for this illogical discussion.

My ability to discern the actual argument the poster goes beyond the surface level. Most posters in this thread are only reading it at the surface level. The same way I'm quick to pick up on a pyramid scheme when the average person is able to be distracted by what is presented to them on the surface.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Startzel' timestamp='1399848922' post='9275399']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1399823676' post='9273393']
You are the classic example of someone that is either just arguing for the sake of arguing, or you simply have poor reading comprehension skills
[/quote]

You're on the train, but on the wrong track with this. My issue in this thread is that my critical reading skills are too good for this illogical discussion.

My ability to discern the actual argument the poster goes beyond the surface level. Most posters in this thread are only reading it at the surface level. The same way I'm quick to pick up on a pyramid scheme when the average person is able to be distracted by what is presented to them on the surface.
[/quote]

OMG I'm eating crackers and they are spewing on the keyboard as I type this. We have a winner here ladies and gentlemen. Startzel isaacbm does not hold a candle to you (sorry isaacbm).

Do explain, with all the eloquence that you continue to demonstrate, this pyramid scheme that lingers beneath the surface. Enlighten the readers and expose the fraud that I am. I'll allow the OT. Continue...

[Mitchell]

Startzel,
Perhaps you could give specific examples based upon your experience in which playing a forgiving cavity back helped your game?

[DeNinny]

By the way Startzel I'm glad you heeded my words carefully throughout the thread, with your critical reading skills. In doing so, I'm sure you noticed that in posting your response to isaacbm you basically proved him on his second premise. It's obvious you picked up on it since you wanted to show everyone else reading that he was absolutely correct about his second premise otherwise you wouldn't have posted what you did in front of everyone.

[Sean2]

Why do you guys persist in exchanging posts with this gentleman? He has all the answers. He is right. You are wrong. You will never convince him otherwise. Save your bits and bytes. :-)