USGA Studying Pace of Play with GPS

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I didn't see this posted anywhere here yet and I thought it was interesting.

 

To speed up the pace of play, the United States Golf Assn. has begun tracking golfers across the country with pocket-sized GPS devices. The USGA hopes all of the data it collects will help the organization pinpoint strategies that golf courses can adopt to speed up the average 18 rounds of golf.

 

Read the balance here.

 

http://www.latimes.c...0604-story.html

 

EDIT: FYI -- I didn't put this post in the Rules and Etiquette forum. For some reason the moderators felt that a study about pace of play belongs here rather than in "general golf talk" where I had originally posted it.

[mwkbmw]

If the GPS can track the fact that they just duffed one 50 yards off the tee, (followed by a smothered 3 wood from the rough 120 or so down the fairway, leaving 230 to the center, uphill and over water), and the device can deliver a mild Taser-like shock to the golfer if they attempt to wait for the green to clear instead of hitting a 100 yard lay-up in front of the water, then, yes, it may actually speed up play.

[mark m]

Sounds like a very good idea. Sometimes course managers are not really aware of the problem areas on a course where bottlenecks occur. Sometimes small adjustments can be made which can make a huge difference to pace of play. I know at my course and at many others as well, if rough height gets just a little higher than typical, balls can be hard to find. This obviously can cause the pace to slow. A course can have elements which are harder and more expensive to fix - but at least you would know where the problem is from the data.

Sometimes knowing doesn't matter:

We went to Bandon back in 2003 or 2004. The much criticised (#14?) short par 4 on Bandon Trials is an interesting example. We had an excellent caddie that made a few comments which were illuminating. He said they wanted to adjust the green but Crenshaw/Coore nixed that and said if you do that, they will remove their name from the course. The caddie said all they (C/C) needed to do was sit in a chair and watch players for one day and that would lead to changes. He had seen enough after being through the hole numerous times with various levels of players: he said about half of the bogey level players never finish the hole as they cannot get the ball on the green. Especially when the flag is in the front of the green.

Maybe they have made changes since then? I do not know...

[Another Steelers Fan]

[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1401975434' post='9434917'] I know at my course and at many others as well, if rough height gets just a little higher than typical, balls can be hard to find. This obviously can cause the pace to slow.
[/quote]

I have the same issue at my home course. You can hit a tee shot slightly into the rough, maybe only 5 yards or so at times, SEE it bounce once or twice, and then get there to not be able to find your damned ball unless you basically step on it because the rough is incredibly high. Very irritating. I understand the point of the rough being a punishment for missing the fairway, but, come on.... it's not the U.S. Open.

Now I'm not one to spend more than about 30 seconds looking for a ball in this situation, but you have the people who insist on looking around for their prized Pro V1 for 3 or 4 minutes. Totally oblivious to the fact that if they do this twice a round, they've basically held up the entire course for one hole.

[highergr0und]

Lol.... what a waste of money. If they're not collecting any additional data all it will do is show slow groups and holes on individual courses. They're just hoping to find a magic bullet that is just not gonna happen. It's akin to questions you get from people when you lose a lot of weight...... they all know the real key to success isn't pretty, is tough, and takes dedication but they're hoping just a little bit that you'll have a magical solution.

[Shambles]

Sounds like a few of the directors have become commissioners for a gps manufacturer.

Why is it so difficult for them to simply calculate the number of players who can play a full round on a given day by averaging out the amount of time for every hole ?



Shambles

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Well I hope it's more than just collecting data on how long it takes to play.

My hope is the GPS data, combined with visual observation, will be used to identify and quantify bottlenecks and the common root cause for backups. [u] The study is akin to "time and motion studies" that every industrial engineer does in business for process optimization.[/u]

If you can quantify this stuff and show courses that they could get more revenue by putting more golfers on the course in a given day by making some changes, then I think there is great value.

Will be interested in seeing the outcome of the study.

[rbhan12]

Interesting stuff

[North Texas]

[quote name='Shambles' timestamp='1401978774' post='9435311']
[b]Sounds like a few of the directors have become commissioners for a gps manufacturer.[/b]

Why is it so difficult for them to simply calculate the number of players who can play a full round on a given day by averaging out the amount of time for every hole ?



Shambles
[/quote]

Very astute observation.

[Ghost_Orchid]

We...uhm, they try to imitate the pros, and those phuckers are slower than molasses. Also not everyone on the golf course is out to play golf. You have guys who wants to drink...lets go to the golf course. You wanna socialize, lets go to the golf course. You can barely get a ball airborne, lets go to the big golf course. I only drive it 200yds, darnit I paid my greens fees, I'm gonna play the tips. i can go on and on...

[Argonne69]

C'mon, it doesn't take a study to determine where the bottlenecks are out on the course. Talk to the ranger, if they're doing their job. Talk to the players.

It's quite simple. Cut the rough to a height that makes balls visible. Cut the bottom branches on low hanging trees so the ball is visible and/or playable. Clear the crap weeds around the water hazards so it's clear that the ball is either playable or in the drink.

The rough height in the Chicago area has been brutal this year. I'd say it's easily adding 15 to 30 minutes a round, as we're spending waaaaay too much time looking for balls 3 feet off the fairway.

[Argonne69]

I sure hope they put a GPS tracker on the beverage cart, so they can easily correlate the fact that the reason the group paused for 5 minutes in the frikin middle of the fairway was because the cute cart girl stopped to serve drinks in the middle of the hole, rather than wait at the next teebox.

[2putttom]

I used GPS once to find my wife under the covers.....it was a California king.

[johnnydman]

Years ago, when GPS on carts was all the rage, shouldn't they have mined this same data???

Why not place the GPS unit on a cart without letting the player know about it?

[North Texas]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1401986568' post='9436265']
I sure hope they put a GPS tracker on the beverage cart, so they can easily correlate the fact that the reason the group paused for 5 minutes in the frikin middle of the fairway was because the cute cart girl stopped to serve drinks in the middle of the hole, rather than wait at the next teebox.
[/quote]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen the cart girl stop at the green and wait for the group putting out instead of at the teebox. Then the group comes off the green and gets their drinks from her while the group in the fairway has to wait for them to clear the green before they can hit. Talk about slowing down the pace of play.

[Shiram]

[quote name='Another Steelers Fan' timestamp='1401976295' post='9435001']
[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1401975434' post='9434917'] I know at my course and at many others as well, if rough height gets just a little higher than typical, balls can be hard to find. This obviously can cause the pace to slow.
[/quote]

I have the same issue at my home course. You can hit a tee shot slightly into the rough, maybe only 5 yards or so at times, SEE it bounce once or twice, and then get there to not be able to find your damned ball unless you basically step on it because the rough is incredibly high. Very irritating. I understand the point of the rough being a punishment for missing the fairway, but, come on.... it's not the U.S. Open.

Now I'm not one to spend more than about 30 seconds looking for a ball in this situation, but you have the people who insist on looking around for their prized Pro V1 for 3 or 4 minutes. Totally oblivious to the fact that if they do this twice a round, they've basically held up the entire course for one hole.
[/quote]

In our Tuesday nine-hole league, our foursome spent about 40 minutes total looking for golf balls this week. It didn't help that our opponents seemed to be a little wild off the tee and were bad at looking... in total two golf balls were lost and wrong ball was hit (oops). We found the rest. We ended up finishing in 2:15 which is pretty pathetic for the first tee time of the league. The group behind us still managed to fall behind.

We're at that point in the season when you have to be within 3-5 feet of your ball in the rough to see it. That said, in our usual Saturday/Sunday group - we just are careful to watch for the balls and we rarely lose one and spend a lot less time looking.

The ones that are hard to find are the ones where the guy hitting it seems clueless as to his distance off the tee.

I think the solution is a larger diameter golf ball! Let it stand above the rough.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='North Texas' timestamp='1401987863' post='9436411']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1401986568' post='9436265']
I sure hope they put a GPS tracker on the beverage cart, so they can easily correlate the fact that the reason the group paused for 5 minutes in the frikin middle of the fairway was because the cute cart girl stopped to serve drinks in the middle of the hole, rather than wait at the next teebox.
[/quote]

I can't tell you how many times I've seen the cart girl stop at the green and wait for the group putting out instead of at the teebox. Then the group comes off the green and gets their drinks from her while the group in the fairway has to wait for them to clear the green before they can hit. Talk about slowing down the pace of play.
[/quote]

Absolutely. Then, just to add insult to injury, the cart girl will drive out to the fairway to serve the group waiting to hit their approach shots, further slowing down the course.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='Shiram' timestamp='1401988351' post='9436457']
[quote name='Another Steelers Fan' timestamp='1401976295' post='9435001']
[quote name='mark m' timestamp='1401975434' post='9434917'] I know at my course and at many others as well, if rough height gets just a little higher than typical, balls can be hard to find. This obviously can cause the pace to slow.
[/quote]

I have the same issue at my home course. You can hit a tee shot slightly into the rough, maybe only 5 yards or so at times, SEE it bounce once or twice, and then get there to not be able to find your damned ball unless you basically step on it because the rough is incredibly high. Very irritating. I understand the point of the rough being a punishment for missing the fairway, but, come on.... it's not the U.S. Open.

Now I'm not one to spend more than about 30 seconds looking for a ball in this situation, but you have the people who insist on looking around for their prized Pro V1 for 3 or 4 minutes. Totally oblivious to the fact that if they do this twice a round, they've basically held up the entire course for one hole.
[/quote]

In our Tuesday nine-hole league, our foursome spent about 40 minutes total looking for golf balls this week. It didn't help that our opponents seemed to be a little wild off the tee and were bad at looking... in total two golf balls were lost and wrong ball was hit (oops). We found the rest. We ended up finishing in 2:15 which is pretty pathetic for the first tee time of the league. The group behind us still managed to fall behind.

We're at that point in the season when you have to be within 3-5 feet of your ball in the rough to see it. That said, in our usual Saturday/Sunday group - we just are careful to watch for the balls and we rarely lose one and spend a lot less time looking.

The ones that are hard to find are the ones where the guy hitting it seems clueless as to his distance off the tee.

I think the solution is a larger diameter golf ball! Let it stand above the rough.
[/quote]

No, the solution is to cut the rough. There no reason the rough has to be more than 1/2 inch. We're not playing in the U.S. Open.

[gmangolf]

Cut the rough to a level that balls can be easily found and develop a system for getting players on the right set of tees. Make tall grass areas OB and "environmental areas" that people cannot enter. That'll speed things up.

More courses need to employ course marshals who enforce the pace of play too. A lot of people have no clue how long they are taking.

[dcmidnight]

I think the courses themselves could make things a lot easier on weekend golfers by:

- chilling out on the speed of your greens - you aren't Augusta and never will be, stop trying to roll them to a 13.
- easing off on the weekend pin placements, same reason.
- mark *any and all* high grasses as environmental lateral hazards - cant go in, must drop.

I would say they should back off to 10 minute tee times but business being business I know that will never happen.

Marshalls will never do anything either - 99% of the time they are guys who volunteer for free golf the rest of the week, they have no real incentive to get in someone's face.

[SheriffBooth]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1402068794' post='9442719']

Marshalls will never do anything either - 99% of the time they are guys who volunteer for free golf the rest of the week, they have no real incentive to get in someone's face.
[/quote]

Unless you're in Dallas and don't know about the double secret carts on paths only policy...

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1401977015' post='9435101']
Lol.... what a waste of money. If they're not collecting any additional data all it will do is show slow groups and holes on individual courses. They're just hoping to find a magic bullet that is just not gonna happen. It's akin to questions you get from people when you lose a lot of weight...... they all know the real key to success isn't pretty, is tough, and takes dedication but they're hoping just a little bit that you'll have a magical solution.
[/quote]

I agree.

I see that there are 3 main causes for slow play:

1. Golfers do not understand etiquette and simply do not understand about allowing faster players to play thru.


2. Golfers do not understand simple methods of being able to play more quickly (i.e. where to park your cart, putting out while somebody else is playing tennis around the green, playing 'ready golf').


3. The courses, particularly the ownership, does not enforce pace of play and will not back up the employees when they try to enforce pace of play.







RH

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1401986745' post='9436285']
I used GPS once to find my wife under the covers.....it was a California king.
[/quote]Tom just remember, if it's an event, you can't use your GPS to measure slopes.

[RichieHunt]

[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1402068794' post='9442719']
I think the courses themselves could make things a lot easier on weekend golfers by:

- chilling out on the speed of your greens - you aren't Augusta and never will be, stop trying to roll them to a 13.
- easing off on the weekend pin placements, same reason.
- mark *any and all* high grasses as environmental lateral hazards - cant go in, must drop.

I would say they should back off to 10 minute tee times but business being business I know that will never happen.

Marshalls will never do anything either - 99% of the time they are guys who volunteer for free golf the rest of the week, they have no real incentive to get in someone's face.
[/quote]

I think as far as course design goes, I think bunkers are a massive issue. I would love to see a course that would dare take out all of the bunkers and replace them with grass bunkers. It would be interesting, but I also think it would speed up play. And nothing makes a round go sour like a ball plugging in the bunker.

I also think that hazards are a real issue. Too often you are left debating if a shot went into the hazard or not...or if it went into the hazard, where to drop.




RH

[Argonne69]

Moderator: Why was this thread moved to this forum? It has nothing to do with GPS devices, but rather, pace of play issues.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402069587' post='9442801']
[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1401986745' post='9436285']
I used GPS once to find my wife under the covers.....it was a California king.
[/quote]Tom just remember, if it's an event, you can't use your GPS to measure slopes.
[/quote]

If you have a SkyCaddie, however, you can display contours and hazards.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='RichieHunt' timestamp='1402069838' post='9442827']
[quote name='dcmidnight' timestamp='1402068794' post='9442719']
I think the courses themselves could make things a lot easier on weekend golfers by:

- chilling out on the speed of your greens - you aren't Augusta and never will be, stop trying to roll them to a 13.
- easing off on the weekend pin placements, same reason.
- mark *any and all* high grasses as environmental lateral hazards - cant go in, must drop.

I would say they should back off to 10 minute tee times but business being business I know that will never happen.

Marshalls will never do anything either - 99% of the time they are guys who volunteer for free golf the rest of the week, they have no real incentive to get in someone's face.
[/quote]

I think as far as course design goes, I think bunkers are a massive issue. I would love to see a course that would dare take out all of the bunkers and replace them with grass bunkers. It would be interesting, but I also think it would speed up play. And nothing makes a round go sour like a ball plugging in the bunker.

I also think that hazards are a real issue. Too often you are left debating if a shot went into the hazard or not...or if it went into the hazard, where to drop.

RH
[/quote]

Are you referring to fairway bunkers, greenside bunkers, or both? On a greenside bunker, I'd rather have a plugged lie than be in a hardpan bunker with no sand. I've seen too many sculled shots hit out of sandless-bunkers, which of course slows down play because the player must rake the bunker, and then go try to find their ball 30 yards on the other side of the green. A buried lie is a piece of cake. Simply close the clubface, and bury the head of the wedge in the sand.

IMHO, hazards are only an issue if they are lined with weeds and other crap. If they keep the edge clean, then it's really simple to determine if you're in or out of the hazard. Spending 5 minutes looking through weeds only slows down play.

[DavePelz4]

[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402069957' post='9442847']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402069587' post='9442801']
[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1401986745' post='9436285']
I used GPS once to find my wife under the covers.....it was a California king.
[/quote]Tom just remember, if it's an event, you can't use your GPS to measure slopes.
[/quote]

If you have a SkyCaddie, however, you can display contours and hazards.
[/quote]

Hazards? The new Sky Caddie has a Mother in Law alert? Dang...what can't they do with technology now?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Yes moderator, why did you move my post to the gps forum? It isn't about gps devices it's about a golf pace study that happens to use gps as one of its tools.

[Argonne69]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402070471' post='9442913']
[quote name='Argonne69' timestamp='1402069957' post='9442847']
[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1402069587' post='9442801']
[quote name='2putttom' timestamp='1401986745' post='9436285']
I used GPS once to find my wife under the covers.....it was a California king.
[/quote]Tom just remember, if it's an event, you can't use your GPS to measure slopes.
[/quote]

If you have a SkyCaddie, however, you can display contours and hazards.
[/quote]

Hazards? The new Sky Caddie has a Mother in Law alert? Dang...what can't they do with technology now?
[/quote]

In my case I need to know the location of the dog legs, i.e. my wife's pampered pooch.