Let's Get Real: 200 Yards

[Sean2]

I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

 

200. Yards.

 

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

 

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

 

How much fun is that?

 

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

 

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

 

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

 

1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

 

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

 

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

 

4. He would start posting lower scores.

 

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

 

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.

 

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

 

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

 

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.

[TJCDAS]

Pace of play would pick up!!!!!!!!!! If you don't have some short irons to some, not all of the par 4s it is time to move up.

[ReidStylez]

With 6,100 - 6,200 yard tee boxes you'll have plenty of 320 - 360 yard Par 4's vs 400+ and hardly if any 180+ yard Par 3's.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

[b]1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.[/b]

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]

Sean, this blissful utopia no longer sounds like golf to me...

[Sean2]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1403533085' post='9557045']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

[b]1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.[/b]

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]

Sean, this blissful utopia no longer sounds like golf to me...
[/quote]

Mad, tell that to the guy who can't break 90 to save his life. :-)

[Sean2]

[quote name='ReidStylez' timestamp='1403532877' post='9557027']
With 6,100 - 6,200 yard tee boxes you'll have plenty of 320 - 360 yard Par 4's vs 400+ and hardly if any 180+ yard Par 3's.
[/quote]

I played a course down on the Cape a couple of years ago. One par 3 was 220, the other was 210. Another course close by has a 230 yard par three and a few par 4's over 400. I can give you countless examples.

[SHIVAN]

It's simple, the courses should set the "men's" tees up so that the 200yd drive will leave a typical 7i in to the green on Saturday and Sunday. Leave the 2nd to back and back tees alone, as the people playing them probably have an idea of what they are doing.

No one I have ever seen adds up the hole yardages mid- / end-of-round and says, "Hey the card says it 6500 from the whites, but we only played 6000!!!"

[ReidStylez]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403533348' post='9557093']
[quote name='ReidStylez' timestamp='1403532877' post='9557027']
With 6,100 - 6,200 yard tee boxes you'll have plenty of 320 - 360 yard Par 4's vs 400+ and hardly if any 180+ yard Par 3's.
[/quote]

I played a course down on the Cape a couple of years ago. One par 3 was 220, the other was 210. Another course close by has a 230 yard par three and a few par 4's over 400. I can give you countless examples.
[/quote]

I'm not saying there aren't any 180+ Par 3's on a 6,100 - 6,200 course but it's not to often you find it. At least where I play or have seen. There is one course around me that is 5800 yards and has one 200 yard par 3. The rest are 160 and in.

[ReidStylez]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403533418' post='9557103']
It's simple, the courses should set the "men's" tees up so that the 200yd drive will leave a typical 7i in to the green on Saturday and Sunday. Leave the 2nd to back and back tees alone, as the people playing them probably have an idea of what they are doing.

No one I have ever seen adds up the hole yardages mid- / end-of-round and says, "Hey the card says it 6500 from the whites, but we only played 6000!!!"
[/quote]

This will increase your high handicap golfer ego even more. You'll have plenty more below average golfers talking about how good they are when in reality they didn't realize that the tee boxes were moved up.

[Sean2]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403533418' post='9557103']
It's simple, the courses should set the "men's" tees up so that the 200yd drive will leave a typical 7i in to the green on Saturday and Sunday. Leave the 2nd to back and back tees alone, as the people playing them probably have an idea of what they are doing.

No one I have ever seen adds up the hole yardages mid- / end-of-round and says, "Hey the card says it 6500 from the whites, but we only played 6000!!!"
[/quote]

That would work. :-)

I don't quite get the "Tee it Forward" initiative. Golf courses certainly don't get on the bandwagon with it.

[ReidStylez]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403533643' post='9557129']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403533418' post='9557103']
It's simple, the courses should set the "men's" tees up so that the 200yd drive will leave a typical 7i in to the green on Saturday and Sunday. Leave the 2nd to back and back tees alone, as the people playing them probably have an idea of what they are doing.

No one I have ever seen adds up the hole yardages mid- / end-of-round and says, "Hey the card says it 6500 from the whites, but we only played 6000!!!"
[/quote]

That would work. :-)

I don't quite get the "Tee it Forward" initiative. Golf courses certainly don't get on the bandwagon with it.
[/quote]

That's for sure, however most of the people playing the wrong tee's are the ones who look at how far the total yardage is to determine what tee box they use.

[CactusGolf]

The OP's original statement is true. My regular playing partner (21 HCP, 56 years old) drives the ball about 200 yards at most and typically had a 3 wood (and another wedge) into par 5s.

This year, I convinced him to move up a tee box to play about 6,400 yards at the absolute most. His scores have plummeted and he's going into the par 4s with mid-irons now.

A lot of the issues have to do with players not knowing how far they actually hit the ball.

[Funyuns]

Just checked my home course, white/"men's" tees are 6050, red/"womens" are 5090. I'm going to say the gold/"seniors" fall right into the 5400-5700 range. Those tees are there, it just needs to become acceptable that you play from the tees you enjoy. I shoot between 90-100 from the whites, play 9 holes in 1.5 hours or better and enjoy myself. Length off the tee is not my biggest issue, moving to the golds may shave 4-5 strokes but not much time from my round. There is a slight chance I hit a green from 115 out, and i'm not going to miss by much more from 150 out so it's still drive, approach, then chip (at least once) and putt (between 1-3 times).

I should add that the only forced carries I can think of from the whites is about 100 yards over a pond (maybe 80 from the gold) and a par 5 that the fairway starts about 180-200 out from the whites (cut that in about half from the gold).

[Sean2]

[quote name='CactusGolf' timestamp='1403533790' post='9557151']
The OP's original statement is true. My regular playing partner (21 HCP, 56 years old) drives the ball about 200 yards at most and typically had a 3 wood (and another wedge) into par 5s.

This year, I convinced him to move up a tee box to play about 6,400 yards at the absolute most. His scores have plummeted and he's going into the par 4s with mid-irons now.

[b]A lot of the issues have to do with players not knowing how far they actually hit the ball.[/b]
[/quote]

Very true.

And I'm glad your friend took your advice and moved up. He's probably having a lot more fun too. :-)

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='ReidStylez' timestamp='1403533578' post='9557117']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403533418' post='9557103']
It's simple, the courses should set the "men's" tees up so that the 200yd drive will leave a typical 7i in to the green on Saturday and Sunday. Leave the 2nd to back and back tees alone, as the people playing them probably have an idea of what they are doing.

No one I have ever seen adds up the hole yardages mid- / end-of-round and says, "Hey the card says it 6500 from the whites, but we only played 6000!!!"
[/quote]

This will increase your high handicap golfer ego even more. You'll have plenty more below average golfers talking about how good they are when in reality they didn't realize that the tee boxes were moved up.
[/quote]

Could not care less what that does for peoples' egos. All I care about is that they finish in 4.0 hours, and enjoyed themselves. Who cares that they say they shot 95 from the whites at a "tough course"? Really?

[Schick]

The problem is that the forward tees, that a lot of the average golfers should be playing, are thought of as "women's" tees. I've played with a lot of people that would much rather hit 3 wood into every green that lose their pride and play "where the women do." Not entirely sure how to fix the problem (maybe change tee colors), but I think that is a major issue.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Schick' timestamp='1403533942' post='9557189']
The problem is that the forward tees, that a lot of the average golfers should be playing, are thought of as "women's" tees. I've played with a lot of people that would much rather hit 3 wood into every green that lose their pride and play "where the women do." Not entirely sure how to fix the problem (maybe change tee colors), but I think that is a major issue.
[/quote]

Schick, I don't know if it's pride so much as fear. It takes a bit of courage to move up. Most golfers simply don't have the balls to do so. They are afraid of what other will say or think, even though deep down they might love to move up.

[rafal]

Problem cannot be fixed, as stated above many courses have blue tees that are normal amateur tees and if you notice, these tee boxes get no use whatsoever.

[cphrey]

I get who this is directed at but a 5500-6000 yd course would be incredibly boring to me...that is an issue. what about people that CAN play a 6500 yd or more course with no problem? The variety of golfers out there is what makes this tough. You leave tees back, some people are happy, you move tees up, some other people are happy. How do you get everyone to be happy and play from the correct tees at the same time? That is the question.

[SHIVAN]

A lot of times, if I am randomly paired up, I will ask which tees they want to play. They pause, hem and haw, and then say whatever I want to play. At my home course, the whites will give most weekend golfers a good test, and it can be windy, so much so that there are 2+ clubs in to par 4's, and the par 3's can be brutal from the Blues.

I always say, "Let's play the whites today. It's windy, I want to have a good round."

Usually about the 5th hole, they'll ask -- you usually play back don't you?

I couldn't care less about distance, all I really care about these days is that it's in the fairway.

[CallawayLefty]

Here we go again. 700 yards over 18 holes is just under 39 yards. So we move them 39 yards closer on every hole. So what???? Think about it for a minute - how much better will a guy who couldn't break 120 in a tournament setting (e.g. 90% of golfers) really shoot from 39 yards closer? Do you think a guy who tops every other drive is going to stop it because you've moved him up a tee box? Do you think a guy who can't make contact with an iron gets a better chance by hitting a 9 iron instead of a 6 iron? And you know the funniest part? These people's long game is typically the BEST thing that they do. You routinely see them get pretty close to the green in regulation (or maybe 1 shot over regulation). Then the chilli dip 2 chips. Then they chip their next one in the bunker. Then they can't get it out of the bunker. Then they eventually do and 4 putt even with a 3 foot gimme at the end.

People who suck at golf suck at golf. They wouldn't be out there playing if they didn't get something out of it. Helping them shoot 115 instead of 120 changes nothing.

But what it does do is make every marshall/starter/head pro all antsy about the "tee it forward" crowd. I am a 4 handicap and played this week with another 4 handicap and a guy who's about a 6. We were discouraged by the marshall from playing tees that measured 6,600 yards. Do you know what a joke that is? The longest approach I had all day was a 6 iron into a 460 yard hole. The longest par 3 was 177 yards. I was within 275 yards on all of the par 5s. But still I have to deal with the obligatory shaming that now occurs on every 1st tee across Murica for playing anything other than the ladies tees.

Get over it. More than 50% of the golfing world either (1) disagrees with Tee it Forward; (2) doesn't even know what Tee it Forward is, and thus won't tee it forward; or (3) knows about Tee it Forward and could benefit to the tune of 5 strokes per round by teeing it forward, but won't end up doing it either way.

EDIT: We played in 4:10 at a very crowded public course at prime time on a Saturday morning, for what it's worth. We waited on approximately 2 shots all day.

[tatertot]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403535156' post='9557421']
Here we go again. 700 yards over 18 holes is just under 39 yards. So we move them 39 yards closer on every hole. So what???? Think about it for a minute - how much better will a guy who couldn't break 120 in a tournament setting (e.g. 90% of golfers) really shoot from 39 yards closer? Do you think a guy who tops every other drive is going to stop it because you've moved him up a tee box? Do you think a guy who can't make contact with an iron gets a better chance by hitting a 9 iron instead of a 6 iron? And you know the funniest part? These people's long game is typically the BEST thing that they do. You routinely see them get pretty close to the green in regulation (or maybe 1 shot over regulation). Then the chilli dip 2 chips. Then they chip their next one in the bunker. Then they can't get it out of the bunker. Then they eventually do and 4 putt even with a 3 foot gimme at the end.

People who suck at golf suck at golf. They wouldn't be out there playing if they didn't get something out of it. Helping them shoot 115 instead of 120 changes nothing.

But what it does do is make every marshall/starter/head pro all antsy about the "tee it forward" crowd. I am a 4 handicap and played this week with another 4 handicap and a guy who's about a 6. We were discouraged by the marshall from playing tees that measured 6,600 yards. Do you know what a joke that is? The longest approach I had all day was a 6 iron into a 460 yard hole. The longest par 3 was 177 yards. I was within 275 yards on all of the par 5s. But still I have to deal with the obligatory shaming that now occurs on every 1st tee across Murica for playing anything other than the ladies tees.

Get over it. More than 50% of the golfing world either (1) disagrees with Tee it Forward; (2) doesn't even know what Tee it Forward is, and thus won't tee it forward; or (3) knows about Tee it Forward and could benefit to the tune of 5 strokes per round by teeing it forward, but won't end up doing it either way.

EDIT: We played in 4:10 at a very crowded public course at prime time on a Saturday morning, for what it's worth. We waited on approximately 2 shots all day.
[/quote]

39 yards is 4 clubs. They are hitting 9 iron instead of 5. Yeah, i think that would make a difference.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='cphrey' timestamp='1403534179' post='9557265']
I get who this is directed at but a 5500-6000 yd course would be incredibly boring to me...that is an issue. what about people that CAN play a 6500 yd or more course with no problem? The variety of golfers out there is what makes this tough. You leave tees back, some people are happy, you move tees up, some other people are happy. How do you get everyone to be happy and play from the correct tees at the same time? That is the question.
[/quote]

I played with an older guy who knew EXACTLY what he needed to do, and where to tee from in order to get max enjoyment from his round.

On the longest four holes, he teed up from either the gold tees (seniors) or on a tee box that had no marker but was between white (men's) and gold (seniors).

Lots of respect for him, as he was not playing cash games, did not keep an index, and was out there to have fun playing golf. Certain holes had a forced carry that is very unfriendly from the whites, and much more playable from the golds or hybrid tees from which he played.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403535156' post='9557421']
Here we go again. 700 yards over 18 holes is just under 39 yards. So we move them 39 yards closer on every hole. So what???? Think about it for a minute - how much better will a guy who couldn't break 120 in a tournament setting (e.g. 90% of golfers) really shoot from 39 yards closer?[/quote]

There is a very large segment of golfers who do not "suck", but simply can not hit it very far. 40yds on every hole is the difference from a wood/hybrid to a 6i, or a 5i to a 9i.

Yes, for the average golfer -- not someone who shoots 120 btw -- 40yds closer on every hole would make a difference in their score, their enjoyment and most likely the pace of play of the entire course.

[cphrey]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403535521' post='9557489'][quote name='cphrey' timestamp='1403534179' post='9557265']
I get who this is directed at but a 5500-6000 yd course would be incredibly boring to me...that is an issue. what about people that CAN play a 6500 yd or more course with no problem? The variety of golfers out there is what makes this tough. You leave tees back, some people are happy, you move tees up, some other people are happy. How do you get everyone to be happy and play from the correct tees at the same time? That is the question.
[/quote]

I played with an older guy who knew EXACTLY what he needed to do, and where to tee from in order to get max enjoyment from his round.

On the longest four holes, he teed up from either the gold tees (seniors) or on a tee box that had no marker but was between white (men's) and gold (seniors).

Lots of respect for him, as he was not playing cash games, did not keep an index, and was out there to have fun playing golf. Certain holes had a forced carry that is very unfriendly from the whites, and much more playable from the golds or hybrid tees from which he played.[/quote]

A rare find but good for him.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1403535505' post='9557483']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403535156' post='9557421']
Here we go again. 700 yards over 18 holes is just under 39 yards. So we move them 39 yards closer on every hole. So what???? Think about it for a minute - how much better will a guy who couldn't break 120 in a tournament setting (e.g. 90% of golfers) really shoot from 39 yards closer? Do you think a guy who tops every other drive is going to stop it because you've moved him up a tee box? Do you think a guy who can't make contact with an iron gets a better chance by hitting a 9 iron instead of a 6 iron? And you know the funniest part? These people's long game is typically the BEST thing that they do. You routinely see them get pretty close to the green in regulation (or maybe 1 shot over regulation). Then the chilli dip 2 chips. Then they chip their next one in the bunker. Then they can't get it out of the bunker. Then they eventually do and 4 putt even with a 3 foot gimme at the end.

People who suck at golf suck at golf. They wouldn't be out there playing if they didn't get something out of it. Helping them shoot 115 instead of 120 changes nothing.

But what it does do is make every marshall/starter/head pro all antsy about the "tee it forward" crowd. I am a 4 handicap and played this week with another 4 handicap and a guy who's about a 6. We were discouraged by the marshall from playing tees that measured 6,600 yards. Do you know what a joke that is? The longest approach I had all day was a 6 iron into a 460 yard hole. The longest par 3 was 177 yards. I was within 275 yards on all of the par 5s. But still I have to deal with the obligatory shaming that now occurs on every 1st tee across Murica for playing anything other than the ladies tees.

Get over it. More than 50% of the golfing world either (1) disagrees with Tee it Forward; (2) doesn't even know what Tee it Forward is, and thus won't tee it forward; or (3) knows about Tee it Forward and could benefit to the tune of 5 strokes per round by teeing it forward, but won't end up doing it either way.

EDIT: We played in 4:10 at a very crowded public course at prime time on a Saturday morning, for what it's worth. We waited on approximately 2 shots all day.
[/quote]

39 yards is 4 clubs. They are hitting 9 iron instead of 5. Yeah, i think that would make a difference.
[/quote]

Again we assume that they just striped their 200 yard tee ball. Let's do this math problem. Hole A is 350 yards. Player tops his drive 30 feet. What's he hitting next? Hole B is 310 yards. Player tops his drive 30 feet. What's he hitting next?

If you want to debate whether a guy who is a 15 handicap should move up from the back tees, that's one thing. But that guy, just by definition of having a handicap and having it be under 30 is probably already in the top 10% of golfers.

[tatertot]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403536231' post='9557587']
[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1403535505' post='9557483']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403535156' post='9557421']
Here we go again. 700 yards over 18 holes is just under 39 yards. So we move them 39 yards closer on every hole. So what???? Think about it for a minute - how much better will a guy who couldn't break 120 in a tournament setting (e.g. 90% of golfers) really shoot from 39 yards closer? Do you think a guy who tops every other drive is going to stop it because you've moved him up a tee box? Do you think a guy who can't make contact with an iron gets a better chance by hitting a 9 iron instead of a 6 iron? And you know the funniest part? These people's long game is typically the BEST thing that they do. You routinely see them get pretty close to the green in regulation (or maybe 1 shot over regulation). Then the chilli dip 2 chips. Then they chip their next one in the bunker. Then they can't get it out of the bunker. Then they eventually do and 4 putt even with a 3 foot gimme at the end.

People who suck at golf suck at golf. They wouldn't be out there playing if they didn't get something out of it. Helping them shoot 115 instead of 120 changes nothing.

But what it does do is make every marshall/starter/head pro all antsy about the "tee it forward" crowd. I am a 4 handicap and played this week with another 4 handicap and a guy who's about a 6. We were discouraged by the marshall from playing tees that measured 6,600 yards. Do you know what a joke that is? The longest approach I had all day was a 6 iron into a 460 yard hole. The longest par 3 was 177 yards. I was within 275 yards on all of the par 5s. But still I have to deal with the obligatory shaming that now occurs on every 1st tee across Murica for playing anything other than the ladies tees.

Get over it. More than 50% of the golfing world either (1) disagrees with Tee it Forward; (2) doesn't even know what Tee it Forward is, and thus won't tee it forward; or (3) knows about Tee it Forward and could benefit to the tune of 5 strokes per round by teeing it forward, but won't end up doing it either way.

EDIT: We played in 4:10 at a very crowded public course at prime time on a Saturday morning, for what it's worth. We waited on approximately 2 shots all day.
[/quote]

39 yards is 4 clubs. They are hitting 9 iron instead of 5. Yeah, i think that would make a difference.
[/quote]

Again we assume that they just striped their 200 yard tee ball. Let's do this math problem. Hole A is 350 yards. Player tops his drive 30 feet. What's he hitting next? Hole B is 310 yards. Player tops his drive 30 feet. What's he hitting next?

If you want to debate whether a guy who is a 15 handicap should move up from the back tees, that's one thing. But that guy, just by definition of having a handicap and having it be under 30 is probably already in the top 10% of golfers.
[/quote]
But on hole A, he still has to cover these remaining 340 yards. If he's only hitting it 10 yards a pop, those 39 yards are 3 strokes!

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, but shorter is always better for bad golfers.

[cardoustie]

I'm no bomber by any means with a 5 iron carry of 195. Driver carry 265ish. Generally, I don't play our golds at 7000 yards because the course is just too hard even with short iron approaches all day .... let alone mid irons

But it blows my mind that at our club so many of the men that do hit it only 200 (per Sean2) with the big dog all still play our blue tees at 6,550 yards. My buds and I will always comment that how much fun can it be when you are always hitting lumber into par 3's and 4's. It has to be a long day

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403536231' post='9557587']
Again we assume that they just striped their 200 yard tee ball. Let's do this math problem. Hole A is 350 yards. Player tops his drive 30 feet. What's he hitting next? Hole B is 310 yards. Player tops his drive 30 feet. What's he hitting next?

If you want to debate whether a guy who is a 15 handicap should move up from the back tees, that's one thing. But that guy, just by definition of having a handicap and having it be under 30 is probably already in the top 10% of golfers.
[/quote]

Seems like you are being obtuse on purpose. Using an extreme strawman to help prop up your disagreement does not really help anyone in a discussion forum, or real life.

The fact is that a vast majority of golfers are not going to hit the ball 30yds on every shot. It's been shown that the average is 200yds. Unlike GolfWRX average, that is likely a [u][b]true[/b][/u] median distance, illustrated on a bell curve over some sample population size, number of courses, etc.

Further, the ball does not need to be stripped. Let's say they worm-burn it 180, on a 360yd par 4. Now they have 180 left. If that tee was up at 320, they would have 140 left. HUGE difference.

[Jimmy Mac]

Tee if forward does work.

I accidentally teed it forward years ago and it was great. I'm a fairly high handicap (18-ish) and was playing a new course to out group. They have unconventional tee colors where white is the senior tees and green are the middle boxes. We weren't paying close attention and played the whites and had one of the most enjoyable rounds in a long time. The widest spot on the fairways line up with my driver distance, I was hitting mid irons into every green and just had a fun round.

Now we play the course all the time and I can't convince anyone to go back up to the "old man" tees.