Let's Get Real: 200 Yards

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='highergr0und' timestamp='1403549121' post='9559515']
I think the real problem is those that tee it forward don't see the drop in score they expect. People shoot 80 at 7000 yards, expect to shoot around 70 at 5500-6000, and actually end up still shooting around 75 or so.

I wish I had a par 3 course around me.
[/quote]

But you mean that those 5 shots don't save hours on the round and make everyone have like twice as much fun? Because I was reading my Tee It Forward manual and it guaranteed that those two things would happen.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='mikes919' timestamp='1403549468' post='9559573']
The problem isn't that the average golfer only hits the ball 200 yards. It's how he gets it there.

First he pulls out his brand new SLDR and a brush tee, and hits a massive 80 yard banana slice that ends up three fairways over. Then after waiting for the guys on the next fairway to play through, he spends 5 minutes searching for his Pinnacle. He finally decides to stop looking and take a drop, just into the rough. Then he tops it twice before foot-wedging it back onto the fairway, 200 yards from the tee. Then he'll wait for the group in front of him to get at least 350 yards out, before deciding which club to hit.

Moving up a teebox isn't going to speed up this guy. And all it takes is one or two on a course to slow the whole place down.
[/quote]

Short, succinct, and 100% correct. Just don't say it in front of a Tee It Forward guy or he'll clock you over the head with a black tee marker that he stole from his course in the middle of the night.

[KLeC]

It would make sense for more courses to actually promote appropriate tee boxes.

"If you typically shoot XXX, you should play the gold tees"
"If you typically shoot ZZZ, you should play the white tees"

If the courses promoted it, it would be good for everyone...certainly the pace of play.

[theothertomjones]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]

I drive the ball in the 270's and I stick to 6200-6500 yard tees.

However, I recently played a collegiate course at 6,800 yards and THAT was a challenge. I could hit a drive on longer par 4's and still have 180 or so in. On par 5's I could crush one off the tee and still have 230 in. Good gracious! No thanks. I like playing 6/7 iron and in on second shots. Game is just more enjoyable that way.

[Orlandogolfguru]

i played with some older gents last week, they were playing blues (second from tip), 6500 yards, and were literally driving 150. I am not a long driver, but average 235-240. I was thinking, wow, this is a joke. nice guys though, but i didnt say anything. i know, weak.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403548939' post='9559485']
Oh yeah, look at me, such an animal and braggart suggesting that I should be able to play 6,600 yard tees off of a 4 handicap without somebody scowling at me. You may also have noticed (or failed to notice) that I haven't said a word about how far I hit the ball. How do you know I'm not a 4 handicap that hits his driver 240 but still would like to play from 6,600 yards. And when the hell did 6,600 yards become the tee box reserved for manly and hairy chested players? I remember the first course I grew up playing being 6,400 from the tips and everybody always talking about how short it was back in the EARLY to MID 1990s before we even had titanium drivers.[/quote]

Fact is, anyone who carries a 4 index is generally going to demonstrate that they can get around a course from whichever tees, unless their 4 was established on some par 72, 66.8/119 slope course.

[quote]This is what I mean. It's just scorched earth with the Tee it Forward crowd. You're either "in" and play from 5,400 yards or "out" and play from something longer. There is no further analysis beyond that question. If some nondescript PGA tour player walked up and set his non-staff carry bag down by the black tees, he'd have grimaces from the starter and everybody on the practice green. It doesn't matter to them that he's about to shoot 66 from those tees, just that he's not conforming to their narrow worldview.
[/quote]

I'm not a part of any crowd, my suggestion was one of involuntary social experimentation from the course, on its patrons. You may still pick whichever tees you like. 6600yds around here is the typical distance I see courses place their "men's tees", and I think that's crazy for what I see by way of distances hit with various clubs, and various golfers. If 6600 is the tips at your course, cool. Mine is 7100+, and it's a long haul.

[MadGolfer76]

I played a recent round with my father and decided to move up to the white tees with him. I don't really know what to think about it even now - everything just looked weird to me. Tee boxes looked wrong in terms of distance to the hole, and I couldn't get it figured out. Maybe there is some mental issue for some? The only real difference apart from this is that I was hitting more 3 woods and irons off the tee and maybe 9i instead of 7i into greens. There was nothing substantive about this switch for me. I was hitting the same greens I hit before and my tee game saw a bit of variety, but that is it. I wasn't hitting approaches substantially closer to make birdie more of a realistic outcome. It did take driver out of play on most holes, except for a couple par 5's. This was at a course that I had played all my life, though, so maybe that is normal.

I also started playing at a new course that is much shorter and started there on the whites, figuring I would move back when I got used to playing there. I ended up using a lot of irons and fairways off the tee. Off the whites, there are about two holes out there where I felt like I could use driver effectively, but with the course traffic, I usually don't want to hold things up waiting for those two greens to clear so I play them as 3 shot holes anyway. Probably a good thing most of the time to play the whites, but I got bored and moved back. I felt like it made me pay attention more often.

I could see the switch being effective for someone who hits other teeing clubs well, and who has a good game with the scoring clubs, but I also think there are those out there it might not make that much of a difference for. On many courses, there isn't that big a difference in terms of effective yardage when playing from the whites vs. the blues or blacks. I also don't like that it becomes a pace of play issue - I feel like slow people are going to be slow no matter where they tee it up from ("Oh, I hit the fairway...guess I have time for a pee break...").

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403550564' post='9559723']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403548939' post='9559485']
Oh yeah, look at me, such an animal and braggart suggesting that I should be able to play 6,600 yard tees off of a 4 handicap without somebody scowling at me. You may also have noticed (or failed to notice) that I haven't said a word about how far I hit the ball. How do you know I'm not a 4 handicap that hits his driver 240 but still would like to play from 6,600 yards. And when the hell did 6,600 yards become the tee box reserved for manly and hairy chested players? I remember the first course I grew up playing being 6,400 from the tips and everybody always talking about how short it was back in the EARLY to MID 1990s before we even had titanium drivers.[/quote]

There is some sort of hint of guilt in your entire tone to every response, like you might believe YOU should be playing forward but just don't want to because you can carry that 4 index while playing at 6600yds. Fact is, anyone who carries a 4 index is generally going to demonstrate that they can get around a course from whichever tees, unless their 4 was established on some par 72, 66.8/119 slope course.

[/quote]

Sounds like you have a great handle on how the handicap system works.

[596]

We had 3 sets of tees, but we now have 4. We removed the "red tees", which are always known as the "ladies tees". We changed the red to green and renamed them the senior tees. We also added a set of gold tees even shorter then the green. Tons of guys moved forward to the greens and ladies actually started playing from the gold tees. Has it helped with speed of play, maybe, maybe not. We still have people playing the tips that should be at the golds. They have no idea where they are supposed to play. I play with a few guys that should be at the greens that still struggle from the whites. I have no idea why they still do that.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403550920' post='9559765']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403550564' post='9559723']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403548939' post='9559485']
Oh yeah, look at me, such an animal and braggart suggesting that I should be able to play 6,600 yard tees off of a 4 handicap without somebody scowling at me. You may also have noticed (or failed to notice) that I haven't said a word about how far I hit the ball. How do you know I'm not a 4 handicap that hits his driver 240 but still would like to play from 6,600 yards. And when the hell did 6,600 yards become the tee box reserved for manly and hairy chested players? I remember the first course I grew up playing being 6,400 from the tips and everybody always talking about how short it was back in the EARLY to MID 1990s before we even had titanium drivers.[/quote]

There is some sort of hint of guilt in your entire tone to every response, like you might believe YOU should be playing forward but just don't want to because you can carry that 4 index while playing at 6600yds. Fact is, anyone who carries a 4 index is generally going to demonstrate that they can get around a course from whichever tees, unless their 4 was established on some par 72, 66.8/119 slope course.

[/quote]

Sounds like you have a great handle on how the handicap system works.
[/quote]

Guys...separate corners already.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403550920' post='9559765']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403550564' post='9559723']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403548939' post='9559485']
Oh yeah, look at me, such an animal and braggart suggesting that I should be able to play 6,600 yard tees off of a 4 handicap without somebody scowling at me. You may also have noticed (or failed to notice) that I haven't said a word about how far I hit the ball. How do you know I'm not a 4 handicap that hits his driver 240 but still would like to play from 6,600 yards. And when the hell did 6,600 yards become the tee box reserved for manly and hairy chested players? I remember the first course I grew up playing being 6,400 from the tips and everybody always talking about how short it was back in the EARLY to MID 1990s before we even had titanium drivers.[/quote]

There is some sort of hint of guilt in your entire tone to every response, like you might believe YOU should be playing forward but just don't want to because you can carry that 4 index while playing at 6600yds. Fact is, anyone who carries a 4 index is generally going to demonstrate that they can get around a course from whichever tees, unless their 4 was established on some par 72, 66.8/119 slope course.

[/quote]

Sounds like you have a great handle on how the handicap system works.
[/quote]


No Pope of Slope here, certainly. Just know that guys who play certain courses to establish an index in our area do not have a very portable skillset that translates well to some of the other courses in the area with a tougher rating and slope, that's all.

Also a really odd shift off topic, guess the points are starting to mount against your out of hand rejection that many players could benefit from less distance facing them off the tee. Certainly not the guys on GolfWRX, of course, but when a 200yd median drive is mentioned, that is redundant to state, "Present company not included...."

[bk52]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403550564' post='9559723']

...my suggestion was one of involuntary social experimentation from the course, on its patrons...
[/quote]

Really? I know that the quote is taken out of context but involuntary social experimentation would be a tough sell for most of us.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='bk52' timestamp='1403551756' post='9559877']
Really? [/quote]

Yeah, really. We're talking about placement of a tee box for a few rounds.

[CallawayLefty]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403551696' post='9559867']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403550920' post='9559765']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403550564' post='9559723']
[quote name='CallawayLefty' timestamp='1403548939' post='9559485']
Oh yeah, look at me, such an animal and braggart suggesting that I should be able to play 6,600 yard tees off of a 4 handicap without somebody scowling at me. You may also have noticed (or failed to notice) that I haven't said a word about how far I hit the ball. How do you know I'm not a 4 handicap that hits his driver 240 but still would like to play from 6,600 yards. And when the hell did 6,600 yards become the tee box reserved for manly and hairy chested players? I remember the first course I grew up playing being 6,400 from the tips and everybody always talking about how short it was back in the EARLY to MID 1990s before we even had titanium drivers.[/quote]

There is some sort of hint of guilt in your entire tone to every response, like you might believe YOU should be playing forward but just don't want to because you can carry that 4 index while playing at 6600yds. Fact is, anyone who carries a 4 index is generally going to demonstrate that they can get around a course from whichever tees, unless their 4 was established on some par 72, 66.8/119 slope course.

[/quote]

Sounds like you have a great handle on how the handicap system works.
[/quote]


No Pope of Slope here, certainly. Just know that guys who play certain courses to establish an index in our area do not have a very portable skillset that translates well to some of the other courses in the area with a tougher rating and slope, that's all.

Also a really odd shift off topic, guess the points are starting to mount against your out of hand rejection that many players could benefit from less distance facing them off the tee. Certainly not the guys on GolfWRX, of course, but when a 200yd median drive is mentioned, that is redundant to state, "Present company not included...."
[/quote]

I tap out. I respectfully disagree with you and the Tee It Forward movement.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1403549326' post='9559551']
The first is that score equates to fun. Not always the case. To a lot of people, golf is about having fun, enjoying a beautiful course and the time with their friends.[/quote]

Absolutely a true statement. I have had courses kick my teeth in, and love the course, loved the round, and enjoyed all the time spent there being abused.

There are other rounds where the course was short, played in a crumby pairing, and even though I played well, won money, or whatever -- all I can remember is that the guy kept walking in my line for 4.5 hours. Or coughing in my backswing. Or dropping his club while I am mid-swing.

Best round ever was with my two uncles and my dad in our first round ever together with rented clubs, in the Tahoe area, and we lost three Walmart onion bags full of balls over 36 holes between four of us. No one on the course but us, and nothing but a good time.

[DavePelz4]

The most fun of my life was playing Medinah #3 the day they closed it for the 2006 PGA with my 3 best golfing friends. Rough was 6 inches, we got Sunday pin positions and oh yeah, we played it from 7,700 yards. Forced carries on many holes. I [b]barely[/b] broke 100 but know how well I hit the ball that day and have the true measure of how much, as a 10 handicap, I suck as compared to a touring professional.

TW shot -18 to win that event.

[Pigems]

[quote name='Funyuns' timestamp='1403533804' post='9557157']
Just checked my home course, white/"men's" tees are 6050, red/"womens" are 5090. I'm going to say the gold/"seniors" fall right into the 5400-5700 range. Those tees are there, it just needs to become acceptable that you play from the tees you enjoy.[b] I shoot between 90-100 from the whites[/b], play 9 holes in 1.5 hours or better and enjoy myself. Length off the tee is not my biggest issue, moving to the golds may shave 4-5 strokes but not much time from my round. There is a slight chance I hit a green from 115 out, and i'm not going to miss by much more from 150 out so it's still drive, approach, then chip (at least once) and putt (between 1-3 times).


I should add that the only forced carries I can think of from the whites is about 100 yards over a pond (maybe 80 from the gold) and a par 5 that the fairway starts about 180-200 out from the whites (cut that in about half from the gold).
[/quote]

Sshhhhhh...You cant admit that kind of stuff around here, hou could get banned !!

[hollabachgt]

Last week I played a 2600 yard 9 hole course that was one of the most enjoyable course I've played in a long time. It allowed me to hit driver when I wanted which lead to a lot of wedges into the greens but to score you had to play well and hit the ball in the right spots. I could play that course day after day and never find myself bored.

While I'm not GolfWRX long, I'm not short by any means. I probably average 280-285 with my driver. This was the second time in recent memory where looking at the course on paper thought I would tear it up, only to find the course a worthy challenge. The other time was on the 5400 yard Pinehurst no. 3 course.

Both courses were easily playable for the short hitter and presented a formidable challenge for the longer, more accomplished player. Which is exactly what this game needs today.

[Titleist 670]

I think slow people will play slow almost no matter what tee box they play from, fast people will play fast. I have an uncle who probably hits a good drive 170 and he's one of the fastest players I know. And he rarely breaks 110 on an easy course.

[Wknd_Warrior]

The average golfer has been blessed by the technology improvements.

Now he stripes it 200 yards with all the modern gismos at his disposal. With the old gear a paltry 191 was all he could muster.

It's a good thing he's got those extra 9 yards since the average par 4 has grown by 25 to accommodate
the "evolution" of the sport. He'd be up the creek without a pedal averaging 191 these days so kudos to the improvements gained from modern equipment.

Now all we need to do is establish some new tee boxes so 90% of the people that play the game can play it sort of close to how it was intended to be played.

[chrndwg]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1403554389' post='9560311']
The most fun of my life was playing Medinah #3 the day they closed it for the 2006 PGA with my 3 best golfing friends. Rough was 6 inches, we got Sunday pin positions and oh yeah, we played it from 7,700 yards. Forced carries on many holes. I [b]barely[/b] broke 100 but know how well I hit the ball that day and have the true measure of how much, as a 10 handicap, I suck as compared to a touring professional.

TW shot -18 to win that event.
[/quote]

This I think is the point that's lost in all the tee it forward talk. Lower scores do not always equal more fun - I know I've made the comment many times on these types of threads, but I play the game for the challenge, and shooting a low score on an easy course never leaves me feeling good about myself. That being said, I've never come across a course that doesn't have options in the 5500ish yard range, so I don't see the problem. My club for example has tee boxes set at 7000, 6750, 6330 and 5720 - I feel like all golfers can find a range in there that makes them happy. We also have a 4 hour 20 minute play time that I've only ever exceeded once, and that was during a full field shotgun start tournament, and we still managed to finish in right around 5 hours on a very difficult course.

The notion that the extra distance somehow leads to rounds taking substantially more time is incorrect - the reason for slow rounds is overcrowding, lost golf balls, and casual pace between shots (things like the stopping at the beverage cart, or everyone walking together to a single ball, etc.). None of those things are significantly impacted by extra yards off the tee.

I guess I just don't see what all the uproar is about with playing forward - the options are there, and different people get different things out of the game, so just let people do what they want without pressure in either direction.

[shortstop20]

How can you say that playing time isn't significantly impacted by extra yards?

If a 100 shooter is playing a longer course than they should that requires them to hit longer clubs that are less accurate. That's more balls out of bounds and more time spent with the 4some searching for a single ball.

If this foursome spends the 5 minutes allowed by the rules to look for each ball that is potentially a ton of time.

[ruascott]

There are a LOT of golfers that play that aren't great, but can certainly shoot around 100. Those are the guys that really get more fun out of moving up a box. Sure they have some duffs, but they aren't hacking it around for 120 + as mentioned here.

[PapaJohick]

[quote name='ReidStylez' timestamp='1403533578' post='9557117']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403533418' post='9557103']
It's simple, the courses should set the "men's" tees up so that the 200yd drive will leave a typical 7i in to the green on Saturday and Sunday. Leave the 2nd to back and back tees alone, as the people playing them probably have an idea of what they are doing.

No one I have ever seen adds up the hole yardages mid- / end-of-round and says, "Hey the card says it 6500 from the whites, but we only played 6000!!!"
[/quote]

This will increase your high handicap golfer ego even more. You'll have plenty more below average golfers talking about how good they are when in reality they didn't realize that the tee boxes were moved up.
[/quote]

oh the horror!!!!!!

[PapaJohick]

shoot I know my rounds would be a lot better haha, but also would be boring to have mostly 9 iron to wedges into greens. Im not that long of a hitter, but i played a course that didn't have a tee box in my range area (6200-6500) so I played their whites which were set to 6100 since it was close enough and the next set of tees back were at 6800. I never had an iron that was more than my 7 into a green unless it was the on par 3 that was 180. I like my home course that is set to about 6400 and i can honestly say it makes me use every iron I have into greens (maybe not the 3 iron but i save that for off the tee anyways).

[Exactice808]

I read somewhere that only 10% in the world of Golf actually breaks into the 80's consistently. So lets say there are 10million Golfers, only 1million could break 80's consistently.

That leaves 9 million people struggling to to make no better than bogey golf or worse. Now Im sure there is more than 10million golfers but thats just a number example.

Moving the tees are not the only problem as anyone can hit a lucky 200 yard driver. Unfortunately thats is what many "average golfers" think, they might get lucky to hit that 200+ yard drive. But realistically, they will shank it, hook it, top it, drop kick it 50 yards max.... Out of 18 holes 14 of which you can use driver, they will hit maybe 1 driver that is good maybe 2. The rest are all over the creation.

Now that person will use a 4 iron, a 3 wood whatever long iron/hybrid/wood to hit and what.... maybe advance forward 50 more yards at best. The cycle continues. Till they are laying 6 10 yards from the green, chipping for 7 putting 8 or 9.

We have all seen it.

I dont have a good solution, but what could work is, if they guy takes more than 2 shots to reach the average distance of a second shot to the hole, pick up and place the ball at the 150 marker and have at it.

Example, 400 Yard par 4, 250 to to the 150yard marker, If the guy takes 2 swipes and doesnt reach the 150, pick up and drop at that marker and go from there. (Driver, duff off tee 50 yards, 3 wood duff 30 yards, they only moved 80yards total, good gawd if we have to wait to they hit another 170 yards total to get to the 150.....pick up and go to the 150 marker)

Shortening the course, wont help and asking the course to modify the course would only increase cost to play. So its really up to the player to say hey I need to work on my driver, to make this game easier, lets drop the ball at distance that I know I can hit it.

Here is another example of choice rather than ego, a scratch handicap not playing in a tournament/for money etc and only for fun. The ball is on a root of a tree, hitting it could injure them. Does the scratch player move the ball back a little as not to injure themselves, again no money game just out there. I would assume they would move the ball. Knowing the risks and their ability its not worth it.

So whats the different from a 30 handicap trying to hit over water thats 200 yards carry. Hit it, but drop it after the water and call it a day, why keep trying to hit over the water?

*steps off soap box*

[Exactice808]

[quote name='mesquite2' timestamp='1403545621' post='9558993']
Michelle Wie last week on the Golf Channel said her 7 iron distance was 155 yards, so I can see where the average golfer would hit a 5 iron about the same distance. Trouble is that they mostly all play the blues, because " the whites are too short". I hear it all the time.
[/quote]

This is the other thing....Michelle Wie can hit her 7 Iron 155 yards 95% of the time on demand how she wants to when she wants to, with the flight she wants.

The average golfer, may hit their 7 iron 155 but if its clean crisp, but do they know how to hit a draw, fade, high, low etc. They have no Idea, they just know that at the driving range the ball lands somewhere by the 150 marker. Out of a basket of 100 balls at the 150 marker... .maybe 1 ball will actually hit the marker. The rest of the balls could be left, right 20 yards from it.....

So averages of distance doesnt mean consistency, ball striking and dispersion.... But "GolfWRX I can hit a 300 yard drive.... but I have no Idea where..... 300 yards left into the parking lot...300 yards right into the houses...... But GOLFWRX I can Still hit it 300 yards!!!!!!!".....ppfffff wtf ever.....

[Sebmour]

I came to that conclusion and I had members test it at my club. They played faster, played better and enjoyed it more. They won't play from there all the time because of the social pressure and jugement they get from other members. It's sad honestly!

[MtlJeff]

I feel sometimes that the internet realm of what we think people think...and what goes on in the real world...is very different.

I've never heard one time in real life someone realistically complain about golf being too hard for them to enjoy. Actually the worst golfers seem to enjoy it far more then the good players in my experience LOL. I guess that has to do with expectations.

As far as pace of play, yes a shorter course would probably increase pace of play but not cure the problem alltogether. Some of the things that CallawayLefty has mentioned are accurate. I've played with a lot of 15-20 handicaps over the years (many of my work friends are beginners and i enjoy playing with them) and these guys sometimes hit the ball off the planet, or chip the ball back and forth over the green, or leave it in the bunker 4 times, and this is going to slow down the game regardless of tee box. Also some people are just totally oblivious to the fact that they are slow, that they have drawn out routines that add nothing, or that they are never prepared to hit the ball.

So is this a pace of play thing or an enjoyment thing? Because i don't think a shorter course really solves pace of play, nor do i think it will really add enjoyment since most people i know who play golf love it. And the golfers who want to leave due to costs, OK...there will be a market correction but golf just won't go away.

I have no issue with guys who want to play the ladies tees if it makes them happier, no problem at all....but i don't think we need a twitter movement here or anything

as the great pepperturbo would say, golf is [i]supposed [/i]to be challenging!

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='Sebmour' timestamp='1403565558' post='9561633']
I came to that conclusion and I had members test it at my club. They played faster, played better and enjoyed it more. They won't play from there all the time because of the social pressure and jugement they get from other members. It's sad honestly!
[/quote]

hello fellow Montrealer!

We do a weekly skins at my course, and late in the season we'll play from the ladies tees some of the weekends and yes it is a lot of fun. You get guys making 6-8 birdies in a round and guys shooting 65....We talk about it being a lot of fun....but at the end of the day i don't think people want to play from there every week

If higher handicaps/beginners want to play from there....i really don't think anyone would mock them or anything....would that happen at your course?