Let's Get Real: 200 Yards

[DavePelz4]

Agree on the obstacles and time element but a part of the OP correlated scores to fun. If the group in front of you is on pace, who are any of us to tell them how to have fun, what tees to play, blades v GI, cargo shorts vs dress shorts, etc.

My attempted point is if fun equals score, unless you're a great bowler, should one use the bumpers.

[ChickenHead415]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1403795223' post='9582791']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403793300' post='9582513']
[quote name='llewol007' timestamp='1403792172' post='9582335']
Shortening courses is not the way to fix issues like this.[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone is really discussing shortening courses. The premise I am taking is that if the course places the middle tees (men's) in a location that shaves 500yds off what they actually show on the card, people will have an easier time of their round. There should still be hundreds of yards of back tees left to stretch out if you like...
[/quote]

And then you have people with inaccurate handicaps because it wasn't rated to play that distance.
[/quote]

ha, I didn't think of that. 100% right. But there has to be some wiggle room right? I said it earlier. But I would love to play holes at a variety of distances like the US Open does.

[Sean2]

I was talking to a gentleman today on the range who had major surgery last year and was bemoaning the fact that since then he has lost a very good bit of distance. His drives are now about 170-180 and he is struggling and is very frustrated since he can't get to par fours in regulation any more. I asked him if he moved up, and he said he already had...to the middle tees. I suggested he moved up further. He looked aghast at moving up to the red tees. At the same time, he looked thoroughly dejected with playing from the middle tees.

[DTXgolfer12]

Ehh i dunno about 200 yards. I've played a lot of golf but i've never seen anyone that can't it at least 230 off the tee.

[Marshawn Lynch]

[quote name='texchad12' timestamp='1403916393' post='9593839']
Ehh i dunno about 200 yards. I've played a lot of golf but i've never seen anyone that can't it at least 230 off the tee.
[/quote]

this.

Anybody under 62 with any sort of athletic ability hits it longer than 200 yards.. Ive never met anybody who only hits it 200 yards outside of the OGs.

[Conrad1953]

Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.

[skullshot]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]

Your overall game is way more important than how far you hit it, including on deciding what tees to play.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='skullshot' timestamp='1403930030' post='9595063']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]

Your overall game is way more important than how far you hit it, including on deciding what tees to play.
[/quote]

Absolutely. People who play further back than they should are putting
clubs in their hands that are difficult to control. They may have the
distance to play back there but they are having to hit numerous
recovery shots because they are in constant trouble.

In an old Tom Watson book he talks about a game he plays with his
non pro friends. They would all 4 tee off from the same box. Then
the other three would play his tee shot while he played the worst of
their tee shots.

Needless to say he was playing his second shots from all over the
place. I don't remember exactly but I think he pretty much said he
likely would quit playing if he had to play from the spots they usually
played from.

[TBD203]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403965097' post='9596289']
[quote name='skullshot' timestamp='1403930030' post='9595063']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]

Your overall game is way more important than how far you hit it, including on deciding what tees to play.
[/quote]

Absolutely. People who play further back than they should are putting
clubs in their hands that are difficult to control. They may have the
distance to play back there but they are having to hit numerous
recovery shots because they are in constant trouble.

In an old Tom Watson book he talks about a game he plays with his
non pro friends. They would all 4 tee off from the same box. Then
the other three would play his tee shot while he played the worst of
their tee shots.

Needless to say he was playing his second shots from all over the
place. I don't remember exactly but I think he pretty much said he
likely would quit playing if he had to play from the spots they usually
played from.
[/quote]

So they can just wait till they see his shot and then putt it off the front of the tee box? I guess it wasn't a money game.

[moods14]

I'm not the longest hitter average carry on a good drive is 260-270. I play with one other guy who has more length but is very erratic off the tee and is a second shot guy. We get paired up fairly often. The course we play has Red's(Forward), White, BLue, and Gold. We play Blue's which is about 6800 yards, whites at 6300, and golds at 7200. I noticed the older middle aged guys who don't hit the long ball play whites. The people our age (mid 20's) will play from the tips or Blue's and they have no business doing so. Got paired with a group yesterday, probably my age that insisted on playing from the tips, I obliged, and played pretty well. On the frst tee they said they were 10 HC's. I tried them on for size to see if they wanted to have a $10 team skins match. They accepted. This is where it gets good... They couldn't score to save their lives. They had 3 shots to most par 4's, FW woods into 4/5 par 3's, and it was just a nightmare for them. I told them to move up at the turn and we'll stay at the Gold's. They looked at me like I was crazy and said, "Nah man, we're good just have to make an adjustment and I'll be hitting 300 again."


Point of the story it's all ego, even when money is on the line, younger people are too egotistical to move up. We ended up taking 14 skins, I love vanity cappers with more money than sense. But I will say this, we did play fast. Finished in under 4 hours with a cart. These guys hit it further than 200 but less than me.

[moods14]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]


I disagree, I struggle with accuracy but can hit it fairly long (not WRX long) but when I play from the second most forward tees, it brings the trouble closer to my tee shots, and gives me awkward in between distances on most PAR4's. I'd much rather have a 110 yard shot than, a 70-80 yard shot. Also, I seem to find more FW bunkers when playing more forward tees. Now I realize this has to do with my accuracy but when I play from the Blue's on my Home course I know my distances and where to hit the ball to avoid trouble. Trouble finds me from the whites. My score's are the same for the most part between 6300 White's and 6700-6800 yard Blues.

[Sean2]

[quote name='Forged4ever' timestamp='1403846172' post='9588167']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403533176' post='9557061']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1403533085' post='9557045']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

[b]1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.[/b]

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]

Sean, this blissful utopia no longer sounds like golf to me...
[/quote]

Mad, tell that to the guy who can't break 90 to save his life. :-)
[/quote]LMAO, the Guy who can't break 90, LMAO?!?!?!

And Sean, my cynisism and laughter is not directed at you, but how abiut the guys who, if they played it DOWN AND OUT, would not break 100!!!!!

I've played in tournaments, and not club events, where single digits play it down and out couldn't break 90, so, I'm betting that the vast, vast, vast majority couldn't break 100.

And these are the clowns playing back because they're bruisers

Self-delusion is the probably THE most prevelent personslity trait and probably 85-90% mistake ego for pride, LMAO

Oh well, watcha gonna do?

Nice thread Sean

My Best,
Richard
[/quote]

Thanks Richard! I think there may be a lot of delusions in golf. :-)

[Sean2]

[quote name='moods14' timestamp='1403972548' post='9596887']
I'm not the longest hitter average carry on a good drive is 260-270. I play with one other guy who has more length but is very erratic off the tee and is a second shot guy. We get paired up fairly often. The course we play has Red's(Forward), White, BLue, and Gold. We play Blue's which is about 6800 yards, whites at 6300, and golds at 7200. I noticed the older middle aged guys who don't hit the long ball play whites. The people our age (mid 20's) will play from the tips or Blue's and they have no business doing so. Got paired with a group yesterday, probably my age that insisted on playing from the tips, I obliged, and played pretty well. On the frst tee they said they were 10 HC's. I tried them on for size to see if they wanted to have a $10 team skins match. They accepted. This is where it gets good... They couldn't score to save their lives. They had 3 shots to most par 4's, FW woods into 4/5 par 3's, and it was just a nightmare for them. I told them to move up at the turn and we'll stay at the Gold's. They looked at me like I was crazy and said, "Nah man, we're good just have to make an adjustment and I'll be hitting 300 again."


Point of the story it's all ego, even when money is on the line, younger people are too egotistical to move up. We ended up taking 14 skins, I love vanity cappers with more money than sense. But I will say this, we did play fast. Finished in under 4 hours with a cart. These guys hit it further than 200 but less than me.
[/quote]

They have probably never hit it 300 in their lives. Well, as long as they were giving their money away, I'm glad you were there to take it. :-)

[bk52]

@Sean2: Clearly you feel the golfing world would be better if everyone played shorter tees. I think someone brought up the fact that you play from the back or "Blue" tees 70% of the time, which on the face of it, runs contrary to your position that everyone would be happier playing shorter courses. It is not clear from your profile what your handicap is, the name of your home course or the length of the course you typically play from the "Blue" tees. I would be curious to know these things if you will share them.

My home course is Leslie Park in Ann Arbor, MI. I typically play it at 6,222 yards unless I am playing in the City Championship at the "Black" tees of 6,591. Anything much beyond 6,600 is out of my league.

[bk52]

Deleted

[Sean2]

[quote name='bk52' timestamp='1403999481' post='9598805']
@Sean2: Clearly you feel the golfing world would be better if everyone played shorter tees. I think someone brought up the fact that you play from the back or "Blue" tees 70% of the time, which on the face of it, runs contrary to your position that everyone would be happier playing shorter courses. It is not clear from your profile what your handicap is, the name of your home course or the length of the course you typically play from the "Blue" tees. I would be curious to know these things if you will share them.

My home course is Leslie Park in Ann Arbor, MI. I typically play it at 6,222 yards unless I am playing in the City Championship at the "Black" tees of 6,591. Anything much beyond 6,600 is out of my league.
[/quote]

Our facility is a nine hole course.

Our back tees are 6016 yards with a slope of 127.

Our back/middle tees are 5746 with a slope of 125.

Our middle tees are 5476 with a slope of 124.

Short yes. Easy no. Either put it in the fairway, or lose your golf ball.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='moods14' timestamp='1403972844' post='9596917']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]


I disagree, I struggle with accuracy but can hit it fairly long (not WRX long) but when I play from the second most forward tees, it brings the trouble closer to my tee shots, and gives me awkward in between distances on most PAR4's. I'd much rather have a 110 yard shot than, a 70-80 yard shot. Also, I seem to find more FW bunkers when playing more forward tees. Now I realize this has to do with my accuracy but when I play from the Blue's on my Home course I know my distances and where to hit the ball to avoid trouble. Trouble finds me from the whites. My score's are the same for the most part between 6300 White's and 6700-6800 yard Blues.
[/quote]

I get your point. The point I was making was in moving up if you
took less club off the tee you could land the ball in roughly the same
area but have better accuracy. I wasn't talking about moving up
and still hitting driver.

[skullshot]

[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1404019480' post='9600377']
[quote name='moods14' timestamp='1403972844' post='9596917']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]


I disagree, I struggle with accuracy but can hit it fairly long (not WRX long) but when I play from the second most forward tees, it brings the trouble closer to my tee shots, and gives me awkward in between distances on most PAR4's. I'd much rather have a 110 yard shot than, a 70-80 yard shot. Also, I seem to find more FW bunkers when playing more forward tees. Now I realize this has to do with my accuracy but when I play from the Blue's on my Home course I know my distances and where to hit the ball to avoid trouble. Trouble finds me from the whites. My score's are the same for the most part between 6300 White's and 6700-6800 yard Blues.
[/quote]

I get your point. The point I was making was in moving up if you
took less club off the tee you could land the ball in roughly the same
area but have better accuracy. I wasn't talking about moving up
and still hitting driver.
[/quote]

Conrad, are you saying that instead of pulling out the driver every time, I should analyze the shot and trouble I'm facing and figure out the appropriate club to hit to avoid the trouble and play for position. Sounds like a lot of work to me.

[tinytim]

if the average male does only 200yds, there have to be 5 guys, who drives it just 180yds, to cover me for this average.
i feel bad for them, i might apologize, but i'm not sorry for that :-)

#wrxbomber

[bk52]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1404009418' post='9599743']


Our back tees are 6016 yards with a slope of 127.

Short yes. Easy no. Either put it in the fairway, or lose your golf ball.
[/quote]

Thanks for the response. You practice what you preach. Enough said.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='skullshot' timestamp='1404021560' post='9600459']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1404019480' post='9600377']
[quote name='moods14' timestamp='1403972844' post='9596917']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]


I disagree, I struggle with accuracy but can hit it fairly long (not WRX long) but when I play from the second most forward tees, it brings the trouble closer to my tee shots, and gives me awkward in between distances on most PAR4's. I'd much rather have a 110 yard shot than, a 70-80 yard shot. Also, I seem to find more FW bunkers when playing more forward tees. Now I realize this has to do with my accuracy but when I play from the Blue's on my Home course I know my distances and where to hit the ball to avoid trouble. Trouble finds me from the whites. My score's are the same for the most part between 6300 White's and 6700-6800 yard Blues.
[/quote]

I get your point. The point I was making was in moving up if you
took less club off the tee you could land the ball in roughly the same
area but have better accuracy. I wasn't talking about moving up
and still hitting driver.
[/quote]

Conrad, are you saying that instead of pulling out the driver every time, I should analyze the shot and trouble I'm facing and figure out the appropriate club to hit to avoid the trouble and play for position. Sounds like a lot of work to me.
[/quote]

Well, as a scratch and a club champion you apparently do the work!

Raymond Floyd once said he could take any weekend warriors game
and beat them with it cause he'll play smarter with it than them.

[tinytim]

[quote name='moods14' timestamp='1403972844' post='9596917']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]


I disagree, I struggle with accuracy but can hit it fairly long (not WRX long) but when I play from the second most forward tees, it brings the trouble closer to my tee shots, and gives me awkward in between distances on most PAR4's. I'd much rather have a 110 yard shot than, a 70-80 yard shot. Also, I seem to find more FW bunkers when playing more forward tees. Now I realize this has to do with my accuracy but when I play from the Blue's on my Home course I know my distances and where to hit the ball to avoid trouble. Trouble finds me from the whites. My score's are the same for the most part between 6300 White's and 6700-6800 yard Blues.
[/quote]

this is great amateur golf

proximity to the cup is wider if the distance is further away.
70-80 yds shot are defenityly closer to the hole as from 110yards. if its not, then you are not able to make half or 3/4 swings. maybe you should practice that. most amateurs struggle with that .

if you find more fairwaybunkers - you have real bad coursemanagement. normally you just find them if you hit super poor teeshots. learn to manage yourself around those.

[moods14]

Yeah you're right. The closer you are the closer you will be to the cup, I think I read an article about that topic on here. It's not that I can't make those 3/4 shots but I'd rather have an equal challenge for my game. I do need to manage myself around the course better, that is for sure. If I could do that and bring my putts from 38-39 a round to 32 I'd be below a 5 cap.

[Maddog10]

Drive distance is an interesting phenomena. It's amazing how many people claim 280 but really only hit about 240, and then there are also plenty that claim 300 but only hit 260ish. The 18th hole at a nearby course is a par 5 that gives players an option off the tee. There is a 50 yard long stretch of water at the landing area that extends all the way across the fairway with OB right and trees left. The fairway is very wide so it's a pretty safe hole for a driver assuming you can clear the water. You can either lay up at about 210 yards, or you can go for it which is a 266 yard carry. There is a carved stone right by each tee box that gives exact yardages for the layup as well as the carry over the water. Laying up essentially makes it a 3 shot hole but clearing the water makes it very reachable in two. It's honestly a very well designed hole.

This hole probably claims more balls than any hole in a 2 hour radius from where I live because everyone thinks they can make it, but they can't. They think "it's just 266, I hit the ball 300" so they go for it and come up 30 yards short. I'm a 1.1 handicap and am not a real long hitter, but am probably longer than 75% of the people I play with. I can't make it. I'm always tempted to try, but out of all the times I've tried it I've never made it except for once with a fairly stiff tail wind, and I still only cleared by a few yards. In fact, I play with a lot of guys at a similar skill level and even several on the plus side, but I only know of 3 people that can make it consistently enough to justify trying. They are all plus handicap golfers and are thought of as some of the longest hitters in the area, yet they can only clear it by a few yards on a well struck drive.

People always make the mistake of remembering their best drive, which may have been a downwind shot that landed on a downslope on a dry summer day and rolled forever. Then they subtract about 20-30 yards off of that total distance and assume that's how far they can carry it and they aren't even close. I've seen guys that are single digit handicaps pull driver thinking they can carry the water and then barely carry it into the front side of the water. I've seen a lot of good rounds fall victim to this finishing hole because a man's pride has deceived him.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Maddog10' timestamp='1404159293' post='9609883']
Drive distance is an interesting phenomena. It's amazing how many people claim 280 but really only hit about 240, and then there are also plenty that claim 300 but only hit 260ish. The 18th hole at a nearby course is a par 5 that gives players an option off the tee. There is a 50 yard long stretch of water at the landing area that extends all the way across the fairway with OB right and trees left. The fairway is very wide so it's a pretty safe hole for a driver assuming you can clear the water. You can either lay up at about 210 yards, or you can go for it which is a 266 yard carry. There is a carved stone right by each tee box that gives exact yardages for the layup as well as the carry over the water. Laying up essentially makes it a 3 shot hole but clearing the water makes it very reachable in two. It's honestly a very well designed hole.

This hole probably claims more balls than any hole in a 2 hour radius from where I live because everyone thinks they can make it, but they can't. They think "it's just 266, I hit the ball 300" so they go for it and come up 30 yards short. I'm a 1.1 handicap and am not a real long hitter, but am probably longer than 75% of the people I play with. I can't make it. I'm always tempted to try, but out of all the times I've tried it I've never made it except for once with a fairly stiff tail wind, and I still only cleared by a few yards. In fact, I play with a lot of guys at a similar skill level and even several on the plus side, but I only know of 3 people that can make it consistently enough to justify trying. They are all plus handicap golfers and are thought of as some of the longest hitters in the area, yet they can only clear it by a few yards on a well struck drive.

People always make the mistake of remembering their best drive, which may have been a downwind shot that landed on a downslope on a dry summer day and rolled forever. Then they subtract about 20-30 yards off of that total distance and assume that's how far they can carry it and they aren't even close. I've seen guys that are single digit handicaps pull driver thinking they can carry the water and then barely carry it into the front side of the water. I've seen a lot of good rounds fall victim to this finishing hole because a man's pride has deceived him.
[/quote]

I like holes like that. And as you say, people find out real quick
if they can hit the ball as far as they think. 266 carry is way out
reach for most people. That 210 to the water drives 'em crazy
cause they don't want to lay up and hit such a "short" tee shot
on a par 5, lol.

[Sean2]

Maddog, I see that often too. Many golfers think their "average" yardage with any club is the longest they ever hit that particular club.

[b]Generally[/b] speaking I do the following:

I figure most greens are 30 yards deep. If I have 140 to the middle of the green I know I have 155 to the back and 125 to the front. If there is a hazard in front of the green I will take my 150 club. If I hit it will I am on the back of the green. If I mishit it slightly I am on the front of the green. If I mishit my 140 club I am in the hazard.

If anything I over club. If I had a dime for every time I've seen a golfer come up short, I would be quite well to do.

ps: I would be laying up on that hole you mentioned.
pps: I only know two people who could carry the hazard.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='TBD203' timestamp='1403965950' post='9596349']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403965097' post='9596289']
[quote name='skullshot' timestamp='1403930030' post='9595063']
[quote name='Conrad1953' timestamp='1403923392' post='9594559']
Moving up isn't about distance alone. It's about distance WITH
accuracy. People think they shouldn't move up just because
they hit the ball far. That's not a helpful way to think about it.

People are better served thinking about ball "control". The key
to better scoring is better ball control. You should want to play
with clubs in your hand that you can control.

And people who come on here and say being "out of control"
with their golf ball is fun; to those I have to call BS.

Even people who don't necessarily care about score and
relish the occasional flushed 3 iron blade are striving for
ball control.

I have yet to encounter a golfer who launches a drive into
the woods and wants to do it more. And I have yet to encounter
a golfer who doesn't wish to play better.

Distance is cool. Ball control is cooler. Distance and ball control
is coolest. Ball control without distance is better than distance
without ball control.
[/quote]

Your overall game is way more important than how far you hit it, including on deciding what tees to play.
[/quote]

Absolutely. People who play further back than they should are putting
clubs in their hands that are difficult to control. They may have the
distance to play back there but they are having to hit numerous
recovery shots because they are in constant trouble.

In an old Tom Watson book he talks about a game he plays with his
non pro friends. They would all 4 tee off from the same box. Then
the other three would play his tee shot while he played the worst of
their tee shots.

Needless to say he was playing his second shots from all over the
place. I don't remember exactly but I think he pretty much said he
likely would quit playing if he had to play from the spots they usually
played from.
[/quote]

So they can just wait till they see his shot and then putt it off the front of the tee box? I guess it wasn't a money game.
[/quote]

No, I think he was just having some fun with his buddies. It's been so
long since I read it I don't remember all the details. He probably doesn't
hang out with guys that would think like that, I would imagine.

[ABgolfer2]

[quote name='Maddog10' timestamp='1404159293' post='9609883']
Drive distance is an interesting phenomena. It's amazing how many people claim 280 but really only hit about 240, and then there are also plenty that claim 300 but only hit 260ish. The 18th hole at a nearby course is a par 5 that gives players an option off the tee. There is a 50 yard long stretch of water at the landing area that extends all the way across the fairway with OB right and trees left. The fairway is very wide so it's a pretty safe hole for a driver assuming you can clear the water. You can either lay up at about 210 yards, or you can go for it which is a 266 yard carry. There is a carved stone right by each tee box that gives exact yardages for the layup as well as the carry over the water. Laying up essentially makes it a 3 shot hole but clearing the water makes it very reachable in two. It's honestly a very well designed hole.

This hole probably claims more balls than any hole in a 2 hour radius from where I live because everyone thinks they can make it, but they can't. They think "it's just 266, I hit the ball 300" so they go for it and come up 30 yards short. I'm a 1.1 handicap and am not a real long hitter, but am probably longer than 75% of the people I play with. I can't make it. I'm always tempted to try, but out of all the times I've tried it I've never made it except for once with a fairly stiff tail wind, and I still only cleared by a few yards. In fact, I play with a lot of guys at a similar skill level and even several on the plus side, but I only know of 3 people that can make it consistently enough to justify trying. They are all plus handicap golfers and are thought of as some of the longest hitters in the area, yet they can only clear it by a few yards on a well struck drive.

People always make the mistake of remembering their best drive, which may have been a downwind shot that landed on a downslope on a dry summer day and rolled forever. Then they subtract about 20-30 yards off of that total distance and assume that's how far they can carry it and they aren't even close. I've seen guys that are single digit handicaps pull driver thinking they can carry the water and then barely carry it into the front side of the water. I've seen a lot of good rounds fall victim to this finishing hole because a man's pride has deceived him.
[/quote]

The course I was at the past few years did some remodelling based on necessity. They added drainage ditches across 5 holes. They're filled with rocks and look like natural mountain creeks even though ours is a parkland course. Best not to flirt with them since thre ball could go anywhere or disappear. I'm not gonna say how I play each one of them but I will mention our par five 18th hole and how I see a lot of guys play that one.

The two approaches to our #18 are 1.) A lay up of less than 220 yards, then a long second and a wedge into the green and 2.) bombing one > 280 over all the trouble and going for the green in 2 with an iron. There is a landing area about 240-280 off men's tee, just over the creek and between two large fairway bunkers, but it's like hitting a green from 250. It can be done but even professionals miss a lot of greens from that distance. Two distinct options for success, but most guys just hit their driver as far as possible and either hit the creek or dribble over it and hang up in the primary rough with no chance of getting home in 2. They're no better off than the guy who lays up at ~ 200, then hits a FW about 200 then has a 9-iron to the green or someone who topped a drive short. I've seen so many guys take an 8 after what they thought was a good tee shot.

[Krt22]

PLayed one of those holes this weekend. 515yrd par 5...if you want to go for the green in two you have to carry ~280-290yrds to clear some "natural areas" and a hazard. Other option is a lay up to a very small landing area, about 180-200...hit over the crap into a split fairway with a ton of bunkers. Great risk./reward hole that can still punish you if you lay up (if you hit it left, you are into the crap anyway..hit it right..crap..hit it beyond 200..crap).

I pulled driver and went for it..smoked one over the hazard and had 125 left to the pin with my 2nd shot, Helps the hole was downhill with the wind at your back!

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Krt22' timestamp='1404170994' post='9611385']
PLayed one of those holes this weekend. 515yrd par 5...if you want to go for the green in two you have to carry ~280-290yrds to clear some "natural areas" and a hazard. Other option is a lay up to a very small landing area, about 180-200...hit over the crap into a split fairway with a ton of bunkers. Great risk./reward hole that can still punish you if you lay up (if you hit it left, you are into the crap anyway..hit it right..crap..hit it beyond 200..crap).

I pulled driver and went for it..smoked one over the hazard and had 125 left to the pin with my 2nd shot, Helps the hole was downhill with the wind at your back!
[/quote]

390 yard drive. Nice not so passive brag, lol.