Let's Get Real: 200 Yards

[tdelam]

It amazes me how so many people on this forum are so worried about what other people are doing on the golf course, what they are wearing, or what tee box they're playing from. Who died and made them a judge of another persons game and/or goals? You don't know what their plans or goals are. Maybe they're working on something particular or maybe that's how they've learnt the course and/or the game? What if they're playing in a tournament shortly and need to work on hitting more GIR with their longer irons? That's the great thing about this game, courses are designed to be diverse enough that anyone can play it differently at any given time. They've paid the same amount of money as you did. Besides, the tips are only 5-10 yards longer than the regular mens tee-box anyway! If you're looking to critique and judge someone else's game then perhaps being a referee in another sport is in the best interest. Reading some of these posts makes me wish I could invent a machine that reached through my monitor and slapped people sometimes.

[Exactice808]

I suggested people may have more fun if they play the correct tees.

 

How do you determine the correct tees?

 

I don't believe correct is the term you're looking for.

 

Appropriate may be the better word.

 

PGA of America/USGA Recommendations

In 2011, the PGA of America and USGA issued a set of recommendations designed to encourage golfers to play from appropriate yardages. These guidelines are based on golfers' average driving distance. So find your driving distance, then see what yardage these two organizations recommend.

Avg. drive - Recommended Tees

300 yards - 7,150-7,400 yards

275 yards - 6,700-6,900 yards

250 yards - 6,200-6,400 yards

225 yards - 5,800-6,000 yards

200 yards - 5,200-5,400 yards

175 yards - 4,400-4,600 yards

150 yards - 3,500-3,700 yards

125 yards - 2,800-3,000 yards

100 yards - 2,100-2,300 yards

 

The issue is...a person generally THINK they hit it a lot further than they really do and/or count one glorious drive as their average

 

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='tdelam' timestamp='1403728380' post='9576937']
It amazes me how so many people on this forum are so worried about what other people are doing on the golf course, what they are wearing, or what tee box they're playing from. Who died and made them a judge of another persons game and/or goals? You don't know what their plans are. Maybe they're working on something particular or maybe that's how they've learnt the course and/or the game? What if they're playing in a tournament shortly and need to work on hitting more GIR with their longer irons? That's the great thing about this game, courses are designed to be diverse enough that anyone can play it differently at any given time. They've paid the same amount of money as you did. Besides, the tips are only 5-10 yards longer than the regular mens tee-box anyway! If you're looking to critique and judge someone else's game then perhaps being a referee in another sport is in the best interest.
[/quote]I don't think anybody is worried about other people are doing, talk and opinions are what these forums are all about. As long as it's done tactfully, I don't see anything wrong with opinions. I don't think any golfer would care what tees 'any' golfer plays as long as they don't hold up the course. As you know, as well as all golfers, people playing the wrong tees slows the game down and 'does' interfere with other golfers. That's why people in here emote on what tees others play.
thanks

[Sean2]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1403714021' post='9574837']
It really is pathetic how some golfers think they are qualified enough to play from the back tees. Just the other day I watched a gal playing from the back tees with her husband and two male friends. From the first tee, with 4 groups watching and waiting to tee off, this is what happened from the back tees:
1st player, female: Duck hooked it 75 yards into the pond to the left
2nd player, male sliced it 180 yards into the trees on the right
3rd player, duffed it 50 yards forward
4th player, hit it about 200 yards into the fairway
This round took 5:45 !!! I am not going back there anymore this year. I think for anyone to use the back tees they should have to show a current hc card indicating that their handicap is below a 10. What's happening is a lot of golfers who think they are good, and are not, are playing the back tees to pamper their egos.
[/quote]

I caught up to a threesome on the ninth hole (fortunately they were done after nine). It took them almost 25 minutes to play that one hole. :-)

[Sean2]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1403728375' post='9576935']
[color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3][b]PGA of America/USGA Recommendations[/b]
In 2011, the PGA of America and USGA issued a set of recommendations designed to encourage golfers to play from appropriate yardages. These guidelines are based on golfers' average driving distance. So find your driving distance, then see what yardage these two organizations recommend.[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3][b]Avg. drive[/b] - [b]Recommended Tees[/b]
300 yards - 7,150-7,400 yards
275 yards - 6,700-6,900 yards
250 yards - 6,200-6,400 yards[/size][/font][/color]
[u][color=#0000ff][b][size=3]225 yards - 5,800-6,000 yards[/size][/b][/color][/u]
[color=#333333][font=Verdana][size=3]200 yards - 5,200-5,400 yards
175 yards - 4,400-4,600 yards
150 yards - 3,500-3,700 yards
125 yards - 2,800-3,000 yards
100 yards - 2,100-2,300 yards [/size][/font][/color]

[i][b][color=#0000cd][size=3]This looks to be just about right, at least for me,[/size][/color][/b][/i]
[i][b][color=#0000cd][size=3]thanks.[/size][/color][/b][/i]
[/quote]

And, if the average male drives the ball approximately 200 yards, the 5400 yards I suggested wasn't too far off the mark.

[Titleist 670]

Again, as long as people can play fast, who cares? They litereally are not impacting anyone else.

I don't go up to guys playing basketball and suggest they try an 8 foot hoop if they're not as good as a college player. I don't tell the old guys in the baseball league to play on a little league field so they can hit more home runs.

If the goal is to help them have more fun, who of you play from the most forward tees so you can have more fun since you'll be hitting chip shots into par 4's? Probably nobody.

Let's paint this scenario:

You're pro tee it foward, and you play from a set of tees that allows you to shoot say 85 on average. Say there are five sets of tees and you play the middle. You meet up with a guy who is a great golfer and he shoots 67. At the turn after you shoot a 42 and he a 35 on the front, he suggests you go play the most forward tees so that you have more fun and shoot a better score like he does. Guaranteed none of you do it and think he's an arrogant jerk to boot.

[Medic]

[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1403663248' post='9571279']

Wait, I am confused. You call out people who go around looking for altercations on here as having no life.

Then you proceed to call them cowards, attention seekers, potentially ignored/abused by their parents....but it's okay because you hit the ignore button/got the last word in?

Is this taking the high road?
[/quote]

Yup, that about sums it up.

And I did not call any single person out - just in general stating facts. People come here and post anonymous attacks for no real reason.

High road? Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Better to block idiots and move on with my life than to waste time exposing myself to their trollish attempts to pick an online argument.

So....on that note. Have to go now. To add you to the blocked list.....

[Titleist 670]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1403744574' post='9578821']
[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1403663248' post='9571279']
Wait, I am confused. You call out people who go around looking for altercations on here as having no life.

Then you proceed to call them cowards, attention seekers, potentially ignored/abused by their parents....but it's okay because you hit the ignore button/got the last word in?

Is this taking the high road?
[/quote]

Yup, that about sums it up.

And I did not call any single person out - just in general stating facts. People come here and post anonymous attacks for no real reason.

High road? Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Better to block idiots and move on with my life than to waste time exposing myself to their trollish attempts to pick an online argument.

So....on that note. Have to go now. To add you to the blocked list.....
[/quote]

Seems reasonable.

[BillyZ2]

[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1403744574' post='9578821']
[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1403663248' post='9571279']
Wait, I am confused. You call out people who go around looking for altercations on here as having no life.

Then you proceed to call them cowards, attention seekers, potentially ignored/abused by their parents....but it's okay because you hit the ignore button/got the last word in?

Is this taking the high road?
[/quote]

Yup, that about sums it up.

And I did not call any single person out - just in general stating facts. People come here and post anonymous attacks for no real reason.

High road? Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Better to block idiots and move on with my life than to waste time exposing myself to their trollish attempts to pick an online argument.

So....on that note. Have to go now. To add you to the blocked list.....
[/quote]To each their own, but I enjoy all posts, even the one's I totally disagree with, and never feel threatened enough to block them. It's just talk,

[Medic]

[quote name='Tom Gski' timestamp='1403745509' post='9578969']
[quote name='Medic' timestamp='1403744574' post='9578821']
[quote name='Titleist 670' timestamp='1403663248' post='9571279']
Wait, I am confused. You call out people who go around looking for altercations on here as having no life.

Then you proceed to call them cowards, attention seekers, potentially ignored/abused by their parents....but it's okay because you hit the ignore button/got the last word in?

Is this taking the high road?
[/quote]

Yup, that about sums it up.

And I did not call any single person out - just in general stating facts. People come here and post anonymous attacks for no real reason.

High road? Yes, as a matter of fact it is. Better to block idiots and move on with my life than to waste time exposing myself to their trollish attempts to pick an online argument.

So....on that note. Have to go now. To add you to the blocked list.....
[/quote]To each their own, but I enjoy all posts, even the one's I totally disagree with, and never feel threatened enough to block them. It's just talk,
[/quote]

Good point Tom. I often enjoy reading your post and truly appreciate your wisdom and insight. You are absolutely correct. It is just talk. I just don't enjoy all of the post and when the same people so clearly post repeatedly to do nothing more than cause problems I just prefer to block them. I personally enjoy this place much more without dealing with the trolls.

What some people simply don't seem to understand is that boards such as this are all about sharing ideas, thoughts, and even feelings. No one member's posts are any more or any less valuable or valid. Some members quite literally come in seeking post that they can find fault with and go on the attack. As you said, to each their own. I am not threatened in the least - no reason to be. Using the block feature is simply a way for me to take out the trash before it begins to smell the house up.

[llewol007]

I have a buddy who fits the bill. Drives the ball with no lower body at all and plays to a 21 handicap. Hits it straight but no distance at all. Played a course where off the tee box we were driving over gully's and add to that a little bit of wind. It was hard to watch. You cant tell me you cant hit it more than 200 yards when recently I played with a gentleman who happens to be in his 70's driving the ball about 240. Distance is possible at any age. If you cant hit a 200 yard drive with a driver, unless your physically injured, I believe it needs to be addressed by the individual themselves by working on mechanics or fixing a major swing flaw. My buddy is not weak in any imagination being some what stocky while the older gentleman is not that much taller but lanky and like I said early probably in his mid 70's. Biggest difference between the two is the older gentleman's swing is pretty decent while my buddy seems to think his hands can propel the ball far. Shortening courses is not the way to fix issues like this. Don't dilute the real issue of a bad swing. Its like blaming the coach for the kicker who can make a forty yard field goal.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='llewol007' timestamp='1403792172' post='9582335']
Shortening courses is not the way to fix issues like this.[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone is really discussing shortening courses. The premise I am taking is that if the course places the middle tees (men's) in a location that shaves 500yds off what they actually show on the card, people will have an easier time of their round. There should still be hundreds of yards of back tees left to stretch out if you like...

[golfortennis]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403793300' post='9582513']
[quote name='llewol007' timestamp='1403792172' post='9582335']
Shortening courses is not the way to fix issues like this.[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone is really discussing shortening courses. The premise I am taking is that if the course places the middle tees (men's) in a location that shaves 500yds off what they actually show on the card, people will have an easier time of their round. There should still be hundreds of yards of back tees left to stretch out if you like...
[/quote]

And then you have people with inaccurate handicaps because it wasn't rated to play that distance.

[El Kabong]

[quote name='Asiz' timestamp='1403574868' post='9562857']
My most enjoyable rounds are from the red tees. But I feel a tangible stigma from not only the men but especially the women when they see me teeing off from the reds. Now, when that gets fixed, I'm all for teeing forward.
[/quote]

I just tell them it's my second shot...

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1403795223' post='9582791']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403793300' post='9582513']
[quote name='llewol007' timestamp='1403792172' post='9582335']
Shortening courses is not the way to fix issues like this.[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone is really discussing shortening courses. The premise I am taking is that if the course places the middle tees (men's) in a location that shaves 500yds off what they actually show on the card, people will have an easier time of their round. There should still be hundreds of yards of back tees left to stretch out if you like...
[/quote]

And then you have people with inaccurate handicaps because it wasn't rated to play that distance.
[/quote]

The USGA and PGA tell us that something like 90% of the 25,000,000+ people who play golf do not carry a handicap. Further, a temporary change to a set of tees does not warrant a re-rating. If it did, they would never be able to move the pin, or the tees, from one day to another.

My suggestions was for the courses to do it, monitor, assess, and adapt.

[llewol007]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1403795223' post='9582791']
[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1403793300' post='9582513']
[quote name='llewol007' timestamp='1403792172' post='9582335']
Shortening courses is not the way to fix issues like this.[/quote]

I'm not sure anyone is really discussing shortening courses. The premise I am taking is that if the course places the middle tees (men's) in a location that shaves 500yds off what they actually show on the card, people will have an easier time of their round. There should still be hundreds of yards of back tees left to stretch out if you like...
[/quote]

And then you have people with inaccurate handicaps because it wasn't rated to play that distance.
[/quote]exactly and thats why the handicaps are there for the most part as the distances are rated that way. Not to correct a player who cant drive the ball but to even out the scoring probably taking that into consideration.

[minimal45]

I always play middle tees. I'm not a long hitter so I think the middle is a good test for me at most courses. I have trouble breaking 90 on any course longer than 6,800 yards. Most courses in my area from the white tees are 5,700 to 6,300 yards so that is perfect for me.

[rbhan12]

I have a family friend/uncle type person who has been playing golf for a long time now. He has easily the ugliest swing I've ever seen, but makes solid contact some 80% of the time and it goes dead straight. His drives however, go about 200 yards.

I am very curious as to where the USGA and R&A come up with these numbers.

[bladehunter]

[quote name='rbhan12' timestamp='1403835806' post='9587281']
I have a family friend/uncle type person who has been playing golf for a long time now. He has easily the ugliest swing I've ever seen, but makes solid contact some 80% of the time and it goes dead straight. His drives however, go about 200 yards.

I am very curious as to where the USGA and R&A come up with these numbers.
[/quote]



I agree with you ....id love to know where the numbers came from too...I have a hard time believing most golfers only hit a driver 200....that's carry and roll.....hell in the dead of summer when its dry I can see 40 yards roll easy.... are most guys carrying driver 160ish? I don't believe it personally....but then again I don't know where the numbers come from so who knows ?

[minimal45]

I have saw club testers in golf magazines that only hit it in the 180 yard range. I have to say it sounds right to me. I hit my 4w 200ish off the tee and a driver only a bit longer. I have played with a 4 handicap who only hit it 190 yards. Not joking. He was my high school coach.

[Snufles]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]

#5 is by far my biggest pet peeve with the current game.

1/4 mile treks to the next tee is the other.

[EK16]

21+ hcp = red
11-20 = white
6-10 = blue
5 or better = black

If people did this they would enjoy golf a lot more and it would take care of a lot of slow play issues, but egos will alway prevail. How shooting a 110 from the blues is more manly than a 90 from red is beyond me but that is the mindset.

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403533176' post='9557061']
[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1403533085' post='9557045']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

[b]1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.[/b]

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]

Sean, this blissful utopia no longer sounds like golf to me...
[/quote]

Mad, tell that to the guy who can't break 90 to save his life. :-)
[/quote]LMAO, the Guy who can't break 90, LMAO?!?!?!

And Sean, my cynisism and laughter is not directed at you, but how abiut the guys who, if they played it DOWN AND OUT, would not break 100!!!!!

I've played in tournaments, and not club events, where single digits play it down and out couldn't break 90, so, I'm betting that the vast, vast, vast majority couldn't break 100.

And these are the clowns playing back because they're bruisers

Self-delusion is the probably THE most prevelent personslity trait and probably 85-90% mistake ego for pride, LMAO

Oh well, watcha gonna do?

Nice thread Sean

My Best,
Richard

[DavePelz4]

For everyone that equates fun only to a lower score I'll offer the following. If you bowl and you don't average over 200, do you use the bumpers? If not, why not as that would definitely help your score and make it more "fun."

[ABgolfer2]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1403876321' post='9589469']
For everyone that equates fun only to a lower score I'll offer the following. If you bowl and you don't average over 200, do you use the bumpers? If not, why not as that would definitely help your score and make it more "fun."
[/quote]Surely real men do. Courageous men.

[TLUBulldogGolf]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1403876321' post='9589469']
For everyone that equates fun only to a lower score I'll offer the following. If you bowl and you don't average over 200, do you use the bumpers? If not, why not as that would definitely help your score and make it more "fun."
[/quote]

Maybe because it's quite possible to bowl in the low 100s without ever throwing a gutter ball (outside of maybe going for spares). Not like it's going to do much, it's a different scenario.

As for the 200 yard part, I think it's not too far off. Most guys I see hit it 200 yards straight, 50 yards right, so when you measure it, still 200.

[ronstelten]

I am late to this thread and have not read all nine pages so don't know if this has been covered.

Average drive of 200 yards is misleading.

Strip a drive 250 down the middle of the first fairway and follow that with 250 on the second but hit a tree on the third 100 yards off the tee equals a driving average of 200 yards.

Knowing the median length of a drive is probably a better way of determining what course length should be. In this small sample the median is 250.

[AnserMePing]

I cranked a tee shot the other afternoon that carried 240 and rested at 260. The fairway was straight and slightly downhill. I was tickled.

I don't have any illusions about my ability. Playing a course too far back on the tee box = no fun for me. I don't enjoy losing balls on forced carries I can't reach, and I don't enjoy hitting 3, 4, or 5 irons hole after hole and scrambling for bogey. Its just not enjoyable.

I carry on average 200-215. My name is AnserMe, and I'm an average golfer.

[Desert Golf]

I'm a short hitter (225 yard average) by golfwrx standards who plays the white tees (6300 yds max). It is true that the 200 yard average probably doesn't apply to most of the people here, but it does hold true for the average weekend players I get paired with.

I shoot high 70's on good days, and high 80's on bad days. I have no idea why a high handicap golfer who hits it 200 yards would want to play a course that is over 6000 yds.

When I started playing 10 years ago I played the blues with my buddies because I didn't know any better. I rarely hit a GIR and it took me forever to break 100. I finally got it through my thick skull that moving up a tee box might be a good idea and started having fun.

[EK16]

[quote name='DavePelz4' timestamp='1403876321' post='9589469']
For everyone that equates fun only to a lower score I'll offer the following. If you bowl and you don't average over 200, do you use the bumpers? If not, why not as that would definitely help your score and make it more "fun."
[/quote]

That is a great point and I agree. However, in bowling you guttering half of your tries does not slow down anyone else around you. The problem in golf is that it slows the entire course down - hitting 10x a hole, looking for balls, etc. Your concept is right on principal, but there are a lot more things involved in golf so it's not an apples to apples comparison.

Plus in bowling you don't actually have to carry any obstacles. You can't bowl from any closer than the lane permits.