Let's Get Real: 200 Yards

[EK16]

[quote name='tinytim' timestamp='1405083111' post='9679457']
@KLeC that is not up to me.
but i know a guy, who can't hit his driver past 175yds. ain't possible. (his attackangle is btw -2 to +2). you cant force him to hit more up, you will not make him swing faster. aint happen!
why arent there super cool drivers for guys like him, so he might "kill it to 220yds". it would be so cool.
he isnt playing for money, he isnt playing tournaments, he is not competing in somewhat. he just enjoys golf, everyday at 7:30....
[/quote]

Again, why doesn't this guy just move up to the fwd tees? Moving up would bring him closer to where he would be if he could drive it 220 yds.

[Conrad1953]

[quote name='Gap22' timestamp='1404921139' post='9666713']
Great, Thanks! We are playing the Judge and Senator a week from Saturday. Looks like a fun setup. Length looks about the same as The Highlands but much more scenic. Those par 3's on the Judge look challenging to say the least.
[/quote]

Ya, 3 of the 4 par 3s on the Judge are full carries over water.
But the hole that gets me most is the par 4 #1. Beautiful hole
with elevated tee. Just hit your tee shot dead straight up the
middle and you'll be fine, lol.

The Senator looks like a links course. It isn't. Most greens
are elevated and have to be attacked from the air. For those
who might not know the LPGA will be on the Senator in late
Sept and you can see it on TV. It's the easiest course of the 3
and has lots of room for galleries. They play it at roughly the
orange tee distance of around 6500 yards.

[tinytim]

[quote name='EK16' timestamp='1405093022' post='9680767']
[quote name='tinytim' timestamp='1405083111' post='9679457']
@KLeC that is not up to me.
but i know a guy, who can't hit his driver past 175yds. ain't possible. (his attackangle is btw -2 to +2). you cant force him to hit more up, you will not make him swing faster. aint happen!
why arent there super cool drivers for guys like him, so he might "kill it to 220yds". it would be so cool.
he isnt playing for money, he isnt playing tournaments, he is not competing in somewhat. he just enjoys golf, everyday at 7:30....
[/quote]

Again, why doesn't this guy just move up to the fwd tees? Moving up would bring him closer to where he would be if he could drive it 220 yds.
[/quote]
he plays seniors. if he plays front tees (lady) - the marshall gets mad. he already tried. welcome to germany, where everybody has "einen stock im arsch"

[Sean2]

[quote name='tinytim' timestamp='1405113423' post='9682861']
[quote name='EK16' timestamp='1405093022' post='9680767']
[quote name='tinytim' timestamp='1405083111' post='9679457']
@KLeC that is not up to me.
but i know a guy, who can't hit his driver past 175yds. ain't possible. (his attackangle is btw -2 to +2). you cant force him to hit more up, you will not make him swing faster. aint happen!
why arent there super cool drivers for guys like him, so he might "kill it to 220yds". it would be so cool.
he isnt playing for money, he isnt playing tournaments, he is not competing in somewhat. he just enjoys golf, everyday at 7:30....
[/quote]

Again, why doesn't this guy just move up to the fwd tees? Moving up would bring him closer to where he would be if he could drive it 220 yds.
[/quote]
he plays seniors. if he plays front tees (lady) - the marshall gets mad. he already tried. welcome to germany, where everybody has "einen stock im arsch"
[/quote]

Why would the marshall care what tees he plays from? Scheisskopf.

[KimSeHo]

[quote name='EK16' timestamp='1405092805' post='9680743']
[quote name='KimSeHo' timestamp='1405076049' post='9679013']
For long drivers they hit their 5 iron 260 yards so 260 multiply by 36 is 9360yards and make courses ranging from average golfer length of 5000-6000 yards and tour range 7000-7500 yards(If Im wrong for the tour issue length please quote) and for Long drive champs 9000yds to 10000yds. Yeap, 10000yds so long drivers can have new ways of competition, tour players have their own and "average player" course of their own standard. So each resort have 3 courses. Average male course, Tour issue course and Long Drivers course or have separated tees in one course if possible. Lets get real for long drivers too, 400yards drive.
[/quote]

You're asking courses to triple their maintenance costs so the 5% of the population that could potentially break 80 from 7000 yards have 2 extra courses to play on?
[/quote]

I got no questions...

[DavePelz4]

There are some idiots who read something on the Interweb and purport themselves to be knowledgeable on tee boxes that should be played, the type of clubs you should play and how you should have fun. If you keep on pace with the group in front of you, who cares about anything else?

Enjoy the game and the people you're playing with. Just keep on pace with the folks in front of you.

[Sean2]

I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405137319' post='9685049']
I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.
[/quote]

Sean2 if I may use an analogy it might change your view on how others find fun even if the game is harder. The analogy is video games. Typically they have difficulty levels when you play them. You can set the game on easy/normal/hard. I myself, in the privacy of my own home with only my wife to challenge my ego, set the game on the hardest or hard levels and have a great time with it. I do get frustrated but if it weren't fun I wouldn't do it.

I don't have this attitude with golf at the same extreme but I can see why some may truly have more fun playing from the tips. My father who hits it 200 off the tee will always want to play from the tips of any course. He truly is enjoying it. I have to be the ninny when we play and suggest we start at the middle or everyman tee. To him he is laying up from any tee box practically so he really doesn't care and likes it from the tips because typically a course designer creates the course from that perspective first. He really likes to understand and get in the mind of the course designer and likes to take on the course from that perspective.

[DavePelz4]

In 40+ rounds this year, playing with people of all races and genders, from 8 to 80, playing tees from 5,800 to 7,100 yards, the grand total of people, who in conversation have said they're frustrated by the length of the course is zero.

I'm blessed to be playing with great people who are having fun and enjoying the game.

[Sean2]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405138542' post='9685169']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405137319' post='9685049']
I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.
[/quote]

Sean2 if I may use an analogy it might change your view on how others find fun even if the game is harder. The analogy is video games. Typically they have difficulty levels when you play them. You can set the game on easy/normal/hard. I myself, in the privacy of my own home with only my wife to challenge my ego, set the game on the hardest or hard levels and have a great time with it. I do get frustrated but if it weren't fun I wouldn't do it.

I don't have this attitude with golf at the same extreme but I can see why some may truly have more fun playing from the tips. My father who hits it 200 off the tee will always want to play from the tips of any course. He truly is enjoying it. I have to be the ninny when we play and suggest we start at the middle or everyman tee. To him he is laying up from any tee box practically so he really doesn't care and likes it from the tips because typically a course designer creates the course from that perspective first. He really likes to understand and get in the mind of the course designer and likes to take on the course from that perspective.
[/quote]

That's fine...as long as he is having fun!! :-)

I am talking about the golfers who aren't having any fun.

That said, I still don't care what tees folks play. It just puzzles me that those who aren't having fun, chose to persist in not doing so. Do you know what I mean?

[Sean2]

ps: as I said, I want to see people enjoy themselves. Lord knows life is hard enough as it is. We are fortunate enough to play this great game...let's make it as pleasant as possible. :-)

[deadsolid...shank]

Sean,

I think for many (myself included) moving up is akin to playing basketball on nine foot hoops. Absolutely it is ego driven, but I can certainly see where it comes from.

I know I'm much happier shooting 80 from the tips than I am shooting 72 from the next box up. It just feels like I cheated. I know that is not a good way to think about it, but it just is how I feel. And I have a feeling many share that. That 80 (or 90 or 100, whatever number works for the indiviual) is like a badge of honor. OK, the course may have beaten me up, but at least it did so from the "testosterone" tees!

Again, it's probably not a good way to view it, but I know when my good friend usually calls to tell me about his round, I typically ask him what tees he played. It's normally the up tees, and yes, it's a good number. But to me, just not as impressive.

Male human nature at it's best.

[tjames]

canada must be setup differently, because our white tee's are the middle tee's, and the back tee's are blue, and forward are red. I would say its often seen here that the back tee's (blue) are for high level players, mid tee's (white) are for men, and forward tee's (red) are for ladies. I basically never see anyone play from the back (blue) tee's here.

The last course I played from the mid tee's was 5,917 par 72.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405164198' post='9685885']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405138542' post='9685169']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405137319' post='9685049']
I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.
[/quote]

Sean2 if I may use an analogy it might change your view on how others find fun even if the game is harder. The analogy is video games. Typically they have difficulty levels when you play them. You can set the game on easy/normal/hard. I myself, in the privacy of my own home with only my wife to challenge my ego, set the game on the hardest or hard levels and have a great time with it. I do get frustrated but if it weren't fun I wouldn't do it.

I don't have this attitude with golf at the same extreme but I can see why some may truly have more fun playing from the tips. My father who hits it 200 off the tee will always want to play from the tips of any course. He truly is enjoying it. I have to be the ninny when we play and suggest we start at the middle or everyman tee. To him he is laying up from any tee box practically so he really doesn't care and likes it from the tips because typically a course designer creates the course from that perspective first. He really likes to understand and get in the mind of the course designer and likes to take on the course from that perspective.
[/quote]

That's fine...as long as he is having fun!! :-)

I am talking about the golfers who aren't having any fun.

That said, I still don't care what tees folks play. It just puzzles me that those who aren't having fun, chose to persist in not doing so. Do you know what I mean?
[/quote]
Understood and yes I have witnessed some very upset golfers out there on rare occasions but honestly I would doubt playing it forward would help them enough to change their mood.

I do relate to what you are saying. I don't like seeing it either. LOL I think I read in WRX-tionary that you are our Mother Theresa. I mean this with the utmost respect and fully agree now with the definition. You have a lot of empathy for people.

[jpalermo]

When my dad and I play our rule is that he plays 2 tee boxes in front of me. It keeps the scores closer and he has a lot more fun. I for one just enjoy the game, if I get paired up with a couple of 18 cappers and they play from the whites I will play with them. Makes for a more enjoyable round of golf. Not because its easier, but it is weird to tee off from the back tees when everyone else is teeing off from 2 or 3 tee boxes in front of you. Conversation and enjoyment are what I am after on a Sunday round. I also don't get to bent out of shape about the toughness of the course, the course rating and handicapping system accounts for the tees I am playing. If I play reds with a couple ladies, at a 7 handicap, I should still shoot like a 7 handicap. If I play all the way back with a couple of golfwrxers, I should still shoot like a 7 handicap. In the end I am just happy to be out on the course enjoying something that I like to do.

PS. I don't actually play the red tees, It was just a statement. lol

[Sean2]

[quote name='deadsolid...shank' timestamp='1405172176' post='9686259']
Sean,

I think for many (myself included) moving up is akin to playing basketball on nine foot hoops. Absolutely it is ego driven, but I can certainly see where it comes from.

I know I'm much happier shooting 80 from the tips than I am shooting 72 from the next box up. It just feels like I cheated. I know that is not a good way to think about it, but it just is how I feel. And I have a feeling many share that. That 80 (or 90 or 100, whatever number works for the indiviual) is like a badge of honor. OK, the course may have beaten me up, but at least it did so from the "testosterone" tees!

Again, it's probably not a good way to view it, but I know when my good friend usually calls to tell me about his round, I typically ask him what tees he played. It's normally the up tees, and yes, it's a good number. But to me, just not as impressive.

Male human nature at it's best.
[/quote]

I know what you mean D/S...just part of the human male condition. :-)

Would I like to play from the nose bleed tees? Sure. It's just not realistic for me. It would be like playing basketball with a 12 foot rim.

[Sean2]

[quote name='tjames' timestamp='1405177659' post='9686575']
canada must be setup differently, because our white tee's are the middle tee's, and the back tee's are blue, and forward are red. I would say its often seen here that the back tee's (blue) are for high level players, mid tee's (white) are for men, and forward tee's (red) are for ladies. I basically never see anyone play from the back (blue) tee's here.

The last course I played from the mid tee's was 5,917 par 72.
[/quote]

I have seen many courses with the same set-up here in New England.

[Sean2]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405189827' post='9687311']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405164198' post='9685885']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405138542' post='9685169']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405137319' post='9685049']
I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.
[/quote]

Sean2 if I may use an analogy it might change your view on how others find fun even if the game is harder. The analogy is video games. Typically they have difficulty levels when you play them. You can set the game on easy/normal/hard. I myself, in the privacy of my own home with only my wife to challenge my ego, set the game on the hardest or hard levels and have a great time with it. I do get frustrated but if it weren't fun I wouldn't do it.

I don't have this attitude with golf at the same extreme but I can see why some may truly have more fun playing from the tips. My father who hits it 200 off the tee will always want to play from the tips of any course. He truly is enjoying it. I have to be the ninny when we play and suggest we start at the middle or everyman tee. To him he is laying up from any tee box practically so he really doesn't care and likes it from the tips because typically a course designer creates the course from that perspective first. He really likes to understand and get in the mind of the course designer and likes to take on the course from that perspective.
[/quote]

That's fine...as long as he is having fun!! :-)

I am talking about the golfers who aren't having any fun.

That said, I still don't care what tees folks play. It just puzzles me that those who aren't having fun, chose to persist in not doing so. Do you know what I mean?
[/quote]
Understood and yes I have witnessed some very upset golfers out there on rare occasions but honestly I would doubt playing it forward would help them enough to change their mood.

I do relate to what you are saying. I don't like seeing it either. LOL I think I read in WRX-tionary that you are our Mother Theresa. I mean this with the utmost respect and fully agree now with the definition. You have a lot of empathy for people.
[/quote]

Ha! I do have a lot of empathy for people. It pains me to see people suffer. For example, in the case of golf when I am playing a round of golf with someone and they are really struggling I try to will them to hit good shots. It affects my game too as I feel bad when I hit good shots. Dumb I know.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405209834' post='9688769']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405189827' post='9687311']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405164198' post='9685885']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405138542' post='9685169']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405137319' post='9685049']
I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.
[/quote]

Sean2 if I may use an analogy it might change your view on how others find fun even if the game is harder. The analogy is video games. Typically they have difficulty levels when you play them. You can set the game on easy/normal/hard. I myself, in the privacy of my own home with only my wife to challenge my ego, set the game on the hardest or hard levels and have a great time with it. I do get frustrated but if it weren't fun I wouldn't do it.

I don't have this attitude with golf at the same extreme but I can see why some may truly have more fun playing from the tips. My father who hits it 200 off the tee will always want to play from the tips of any course. He truly is enjoying it. I have to be the ninny when we play and suggest we start at the middle or everyman tee. To him he is laying up from any tee box practically so he really doesn't care and likes it from the tips because typically a course designer creates the course from that perspective first. He really likes to understand and get in the mind of the course designer and likes to take on the course from that perspective.
[/quote]

That's fine...as long as he is having fun!! :-)

I am talking about the golfers who aren't having any fun.

That said, I still don't care what tees folks play. It just puzzles me that those who aren't having fun, chose to persist in not doing so. Do you know what I mean?
[/quote]
Understood and yes I have witnessed some very upset golfers out there on rare occasions but honestly I would doubt playing it forward would help them enough to change their mood.

I do relate to what you are saying. I don't like seeing it either. LOL I think I read in WRX-tionary that you are our Mother Theresa. I mean this with the utmost respect and fully agree now with the definition. You have a lot of empathy for people.
[/quote]

Ha! I do have a lot of empathy for people. It pains me to see people suffer. For example, in the case of golf when I am playing a round of golf with someone and they are really struggling I try to will them to hit good shots. It affects my game too as I feel bad when I hit good shots. Dumb I know.
[/quote]

I liked everything you said except that last sentence. No need for it at all.

[Sean2]

[quote name='jpalermo' timestamp='1405194496' post='9687607']
When my dad and I play our rule is that he plays 2 tee boxes in front of me. It keeps the scores closer and he has a lot more fun. I for one just enjoy the game, if I get paired up with a couple of 18 cappers and they play from the whites I will play with them. Makes for a more enjoyable round of golf. Not because its easier, but it is weird to tee off from the back tees when everyone else is teeing off from 2 or 3 tee boxes in front of you. Conversation and enjoyment are what I am after on a Sunday round. I also don't get to bent out of shape about the toughness of the course, the course rating and handicapping system accounts for the tees I am playing. If I play reds with a couple ladies, at a 7 handicap, I should still shoot like a 7 handicap. If I play all the way back with a couple of golfwrxers, I should still shoot like a 7 handicap. In the end I am just happy to be out on the course enjoying something that I like to do.

PS. I don't actually play the red tees, It was just a statement. lol
[/quote]

I played the red tees once with some ladies...just hit irons...it was fun. :-)

[Sean2]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405210005' post='9688779']

I liked everything you said except that last sentence. No need for it at all.
[/quote]

I agree, but I shouldn't let how someone else plays affect how I play, i.e., if they are playing poorly I shouldn't follow suit out of some kind of resonant sympathy.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405210418' post='9688813']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405210005' post='9688779']
I liked everything you said except that last sentence. No need for it at all.
[/quote]

I agree, but I shouldn't let how someone else plays affect how I play, i.e., if they are playing poorly I shouldn't follow suit out of some kind of resonant sympathy.
[/quote]
If you didn't then you wouldn't be empathetic. LOL emPATHETIC.

[Sean2]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405210623' post='9688829']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405210418' post='9688813']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405210005' post='9688779']
I liked everything you said except that last sentence. No need for it at all.
[/quote]

I agree, but I shouldn't let how someone else plays affect how I play, i.e., if they are playing poorly I shouldn't follow suit out of some kind of resonant sympathy.
[/quote]
If you didn't then you wouldn't be empathetic. LOL emPATHETIC.
[/quote]

Ha, ha, ha, :-)

[MelloYello]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1403532131' post='9556915']
I have read, on more then one occasion, that the average male drives the ball around 200 yards.

200. Yards.

Now, this does not apply to the typical member of this forum, however, it does bring up a few questions.

If such is the case, and the average middle tee box is 6100 to 6200 hundred yards, then the average golfer is very hard pressed to hit most of the par 4's in regulation, since he is probably hitting a hybrid or fairway wood into them. Not to mentions those 180 to 200 yard par 3's.

How much fun is that?

One can extrapolate from that yardage that perhaps his 5-iron may go around 150. If so, and taking the formula from Golf Digest (distance one hit's a 5-iron multiplied by 36), then our intrepid golfer should be playing from about 5400 yards, or stretch it to 5700.

Shocking yes. Probably realistic too.

And, this distance would allow for a few things:

1. Our golfer would be much less frustrated.

2. He would actually get to hit those nice new irons he just purchased.

3. He might actually have more than one birdie putt a round.

4. He would start posting lower scores.

5. Minimizing 180 yard forced carries that our golfer has no realistic chance of pulling off.

6. Maybe, just maybe one of the reasons people leave the game is out of frustration. And, one of those frustrations may be he has no realistic chance of posting a decent score from 6100-6200 yard.

Yes, I know a huge part of this game is ego driven, but golf courses could move the tee boxes up, and have the same color makers.

Anyway, I just thought I throw this out there. I know 5400 to 5700 sounds paltry by GolfWRX standards, but what is the purpose of the game? Having fun, enjoying yourself, or walking off the 18th green miserable and pissed off?

Let's be a bit more realistic, let's have a bit more fun, and perhaps more people will enjoy themselves, and fewer people will leave the game.
[/quote]


Depends who you're catering to. If you're going by handicaps and essentially catering to the lowest common denominator, it's just ruins the experience for the good players. If I was investing in a course, I wouldn't consider for a second building a course less than 6000 yards. I, myself, wouldn't get much joy playing it. If you start building Par 3's that are 150 and in, I'm not hitting anything more than PW. If you start building Par 4's that are inside 350, I'm hitting 5-iron off the tee and wedging it in. That's ridiculous. I've played courses like that and as a good player who hits the ball a long way, I have no reason to carry woods at all in those instances.

I wish these courses existed, because yeah, just the other day I played with a guy who was a totally novice and could only manage a good shot every 10 attempts. I wish there was a way that he and I could play the same course, but there's really not. If you gear the course to me, it's going to kill him. If it's geared to him I will look like Tiger Woods.

I wish these ideal courses existed as they could handle the load of really bad golfers out there who don't take the game 50% as seriously as I do and who don't regularly play and practice, but the fact is, you aren't going to be in the position to spend the money on building a course, and then completely ignore the good players.

By comparison, you can't expect anyone to hand you their money and then be told, you have to go to the front tees, sir.

There is no solution. It's an optimization problem at best and that's exactly what courses realize and have been attempting to solve for ages.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405209834' post='9688769']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405189827' post='9687311']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405164198' post='9685885']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1405138542' post='9685169']
[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1405137319' post='9685049']
I played with a couple of older gentleman the other day and both were quite short off the tee (160 or so). They told me how frustrated they were as they were no longer able to get to most par fours in regulation anymore, and had to use fairway woods, and even drivers on par threes. They said they were thinking of quitting the game as it just wasn't fun anymore.

I asked these gentlemen why they didn't move up to the forward tees. They looked forward horrified. So they are willing to give up a game they love, because it's no fun anymore, rather then move up a tee box, for the sake of their ego. Their choice.

Some on this forum have it stuck in their heads that everyone has fun from the tees the ARE playing. Such is not always the case.

Personally I don't care what tees people play from. I don't care if a guy has a staff bag. I don't care if he plays blades or ultra game improvement irons. I don't care if he drives a Porche or 20 year old Yugo.

What I do like to see is golfers have fun (apparently for some on this forum, wanting golfers to have fun is a no no). However, for many golfers, their egos get in the way. Some insist that golfers ARE having fun hitting fairway woods into par fours and drivers on par threes. Perhaps that's true. But I have yet to meet a golfer that enjoys hitting a fairway wood into a par four versus a 7-iron. Maybe I'm meeting the wrong golfers. :-)

That said, if people want to continue to do that, that's their right. But, if it's so much "fun" why do many of them complain all the time?

Anyway, I'd like to see people walk off the 18th with a smile on their faces. But, as I said, they can play whatever tees they want. I just think most people would enjoy the game more putting for birdie occasionally as opposed to bogey, or double.

But again, some on this forum would suggest it's more "fun" putting for bogey and double bogey as opposed to birdies and pars.
[/quote]

Sean2 if I may use an analogy it might change your view on how others find fun even if the game is harder. The analogy is video games. Typically they have difficulty levels when you play them. You can set the game on easy/normal/hard. I myself, in the privacy of my own home with only my wife to challenge my ego, set the game on the hardest or hard levels and have a great time with it. I do get frustrated but if it weren't fun I wouldn't do it.

I don't have this attitude with golf at the same extreme but I can see why some may truly have more fun playing from the tips. My father who hits it 200 off the tee will always want to play from the tips of any course. He truly is enjoying it. I have to be the ninny when we play and suggest we start at the middle or everyman tee. To him he is laying up from any tee box practically so he really doesn't care and likes it from the tips because typically a course designer creates the course from that perspective first. He really likes to understand and get in the mind of the course designer and likes to take on the course from that perspective.
[/quote]

That's fine...as long as he is having fun!! :-)

I am talking about the golfers who aren't having any fun.

That said, I still don't care what tees folks play. It just puzzles me that those who aren't having fun, chose to persist in not doing so. Do you know what I mean?
[/quote]
Understood and yes I have witnessed some very upset golfers out there on rare occasions but honestly I would doubt playing it forward would help them enough to change their mood.

I do relate to what you are saying. I don't like seeing it either. LOL I think I read in WRX-tionary that you are our Mother Theresa. I mean this with the utmost respect and fully agree now with the definition. You have a lot of empathy for people.
[/quote]

Ha! I do have a lot of empathy for people. It pains me to see people suffer. For example, in the case of golf when I am playing a round of golf with someone and they are really struggling I try to will them to hit good shots. It affects my game too as I feel bad when I hit good shots. Dumb I know.
[/quote]

Sean, I'm a human being, and I'm impressed by that quality. It is NOT in everyone. It cannot exist in everyone. The great minds in our society don't worry about what others think. They don't concern themselves with the petty emotions of other people. They know that in time folks will learn, but that the course and progress in their lives will be slowed if they allow themselves to be caught up in it.

My sister has always been an inspiration because she has so little sympathy for herself and for other people. She believes that you should work hard to get anything and that you should suffer the appropriate punishments when they are self-inflicted and have arisen from your own stupidity. I absolutely LOVE seeing that in people. It's inspiring.

I love that she is so direct and that she's the type of person, so grounded in reality, that she'll immediately call someone on there being ridiculous. When you talk about people who'd rather quit than adjust tee boxes, I think of her and how she would, in that amazing pragmatism that only the fairer sex seems to posses, say good, 'F 'em.'

I feel sorry for them. I've been through hard times. I know what it is to suffer, but you can't go around trying to fix everyone's problem when they are indeed self-inflicted. We have to let people suffer as it is from that which they learn the most.

By the same token, I have friends who are very sympathetic to other people, but it also happens that they held back in certain areas of their lives because they care too much. It is true that when you dwell on the suffering of other people, you will only bring that suffering to yourself as well. That isn't necessary. It doesn't help.

[ABgolfer2]

If golf is to be considered a sport there must be an acceptance that not everyone was meant to play full length courses. As long as there are pitch and putts, par 3 courses, and executive courses, there's golf for everyone. If somone wants to tee it up at a course that's over his head that's his problem as long as he doesn't slow down the entire course. Same goes for any sport. You can try it but if you're terrible or slow don't expect anyone to pass you the ball or want you on their team. Not everyone is good enough at sports to take the playing field. Golf courses will gladly take anyone's money, even those who really should have spent it elsewhere. No reason to punish the players who are good at it and spend time in the off season and between rounds making sure they can keep up and enjoy it.

[MelloYello]

[quote name='ABgolfer2' timestamp='1405271733' post='9691799']
If golf is to be considered a sport there must be an acceptance that not everyone was meant to play full length courses. As long as there are pitch and putts, par 3 courses, and executive courses, there's golf for everyone. If somone wants to tee it up at a course that's over his head that's his problem as long as he doesn't slow down the entire course. Same goes for any sport. You can try it but if you're terrible or slow don't expect anyone to pass you the ball or want you on their team. Not everyone is good enough at sports to take the playing field. Golf courses will gladly take anyone's money, even those who really should have spent it elsewhere. No reason to punish the players who are good at it and spend time in the off season and between rounds making sure they can keep up and enjoy it.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree with this because after all, we're talking about GOLF. It's not a life and death situation.

I think people should be allowed to torture themselves as much as they want so much as it doesn't torture others.

People can torture themselves in basically any aspect of life. Golf is not unique, it's just well constructed for it.



I should also say that as a decent player, I take a lot of expectations to the golf course and so of course it's the case that I often torture myself, but that's fun. I like the pressure on myself and when you obsess about something it's going to get inside you emotionally quite a bit. You can see how it effects Tiger when he hits a bad shot. That's not anything special about Tiger Woods, that's just a personality trait that a lot of introverted, self-driven, highly focused people share. And yet, as mad as he gets, he still loves golf more than anyone on the PGA Tour I'm sure. No one dares say, "hey Tiger, let's make the game easier so we don't get so mad."

Some people, like Tiger (and me as well), can be furious for 20 seconds and then let it go completely. I think many, many people are like that. However, I also believe that some people simply don't understand that trait and see any type of anger or frustration as a really bad thing. By comparison, when they encounter anger--even if temporary--they assume it's tied in with mental anguish and personal suffering when in reality, it's not nearly that deep. Thus, those types often want to try and "help" when in reality, it's not wanted at all and would only come off as patronizing.

[bellview17]

I have played 20 rounds this summer on 20 different courses as a single, and for the most part everyone played quick and
from the correct tees.... I am a 6 hdcp and hit it 270 measured every time I hit the hammer, I play from the white 6000-6500.

The only problem was with three people about in their early twenties and they had to play the backs at about
7800 yards and well, none of them play much or broke about 125.. I offered them to move at the turn but no dice, long round
of the year.....

Move close enough to hit greens or be close to them with the 2nd shot.....

[MelloYello]

[quote name='bellview17' timestamp='1405279229' post='9692359']
I have played 20 rounds this summer on 20 different courses as a single, and for the most part everyone played quick and
from the correct tees.... I am a 6 hdcp and hit it 270 measured every time I hit the hammer, I play from the white 6000-6500.

The only problem was with three people about in their early twenties and they had to play the backs at about
7800 yards and well, none of them play much or broke about 125.. I offered them to move at the turn but no dice, long round
of the year.....

Move close enough to hit greens or be close to them with the 2nd shot.....
[/quote]

Man, that sucks. 7800 is ridiculously long. I feel guilty though because I know the first time I play a course that offers that type of length, I'll want to see the whole thing too.

Still, golf does need some rule that says, given the difficulty of the course, you have to shoot XX to play the backs. If there was an unspoken rule, maybe people would be more likely to embrace it. They'd even maybe remind each other of it.

I've played with some bad golfers who shoot above 100 and honestly, I don't see the joy in the game at that stage. If I shot 120, I don't think I'd spend my time playing golf...

[bellview17]

[quote name='MelloYello' timestamp='1405279719' post='9692387']
[quote name='bellview17' timestamp='1405279229' post='9692359']
I have played 20 rounds this summer on 20 different courses as a single, and for the most part everyone played quick and
from the correct tees.... I am a 6 hdcp and hit it 270 measured every time I hit the hammer, I play from the white 6000-6500.

The only problem was with three people about in their early twenties and they had to play the backs at about
7800 yards and well, none of them play much or broke about 125.. I offered them to move at the turn but no dice, long round
of the year.....

Move close enough to hit greens or be close to them with the 2nd shot.....
[/quote]

Man, that sucks. 7800 is ridiculously long. I feel guilty though because I know the first time I play a course that offers that type of length, I'll want to see the whole thing too.

Still, golf does need some rule that says, given the difficulty of the course, you have to shoot XX to play the backs. If there was an unspoken rule, maybe people would be more likely to embrace it. They'd even maybe remind each other of it.

I've played with some bad golfers who shoot above 100 and honestly, I don't see the joy in the game at that stage. If I shot 120, I don't think I'd spend my time playing golf...
[/quote]
Yea, it was a long day, but playing golf.... It happens each year where 2 to 3 rounds are clunkers based on who I play with...
But, that is what happens when playing as a single on so many different courses....