Back to life, back to reality (blades for me)

[NRJyzr]

Nice find, Biggie

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='shooterMcGee' timestamp='1417047347' post='10508119']
Look what this random bird just dropped at my door...
[/quote]

I love the smell of club hoeing in the air

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1417029669' post='10506955']
This whole time a lot of these people that are nay sayers seem to think that people are not decent enough ball strikers right? WHAT IF....and I am reaching here.....not really.....but what if they person swinging has a decent swing. I can hit the center of the club face 9/10 times.....now center not sweet spot....sweet spot maybe 3/10 times.....the other 6 are perfectly acceptable shots, but not sweet spots by all means.

What about that? The thing is...I still think hitting the sweet spot has really nothing to do with your game. If the way the ball comes off the face puts you in the best situation. Be it sky high, a worm burner, constant hooks, constant slices....but works.....why is it such an issue to have to hit the sweet spot 100% to be able to hit a blade....its but repeated that even pro's hit the sweet spot about 50% of the time?
[/quote]

I was wanting to come back to this Exactice because my earlier response was about learning, but your point about hitting this proverbial sweetspot is a good one, and I could not get into detail posting from my phone earlier.

If you remember, I have posted a diagram twice now about mishits and I believe that a lot of them are more from face angle or swing path issues. Sure there are still off center hits on top of these, but really what causes a bad swing result was the incorrect face angle (or path…same thing in terms of the physics). If not face angle or path, then it may be that “turf” miss where you are either hitting it too thin or too fat. I’m going to go out on a limb and state that the off center miss may be the least likely type of miss, which is why the blade does not hurt the average golfer’s score. And why we all keep saying that a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of the iron used.

Now let’s look at the amateur’s supposed toe side miss. Was it really from a square path that was off center? Or was it from an on center hit with correct path but the face angle was either open or closed? With the face at an angle, the contact on the ball will appear as if it was a toe side miss but in reality the angle is what caused the ball to contact the face at the toe. Proof: address the ball with a mid iron and then either open or close the face while keeping the shaft and heel at the same place. The toe gets closer to the swing path into the center of the ball either way, so again it will appear as if you just hit it on the toe.

Compare this to the pro that doesn’t have the toe side miss. Maybe he is just better at keeping the face (or path) square!

And remember that all the “data” about the difference in distance from a mishit is based on only the off center hit using a robot. There’s not really any data about swing path (or face angle) miss differences between a blade and a CB.

And lastly remember that when you are working the ball, some of those “misses” can actually result in a decent shot. For example if you miss with the face angle in just the right position, you could still spin the ball and work it just as well as if you hit it on the center while trying to work it through the swing path. LOL sometimes your errors get canceled out.

Edit: I guess in summary maybe we don't really have off center swing path issues but rather face angle hit issues and this is not helped that much by a CB. Also here is the diagram but without my earlier explanation:

[sharedmedia=core:attachments:2434853]

[DeNinny]

Ok. I will teach you cool American slang, but you have to teach me about sleek architecture and modern design, deal?

 

Back on track. Can someone explain the technology of blades weight placement? Using my own example below, 3 clubs with 3 different backs

 

 

The vega has a curve that has an apex behind the sweetspot. The miura is a straight shot across, and the mizuno gos straits but weight is dropped at the toe.

 

Can someone explain how these different weight distributions are supposed to effect the shot?

OK Bigmean, I've had a chance to study this and here is how I break down their COGs:

 

Mizuno should have the COG closest to the toe, but *if* the Miura were as long, it may be the Miura instead. This is because the height of the muscle gets increasingly bigger toward the toe with both clubs. More mass is toward the toe side. This should help with toe side misses.

 

The Vega should have the highest COG. This is because it is the highest more in the middle of the head (under the E and G in VEGA). That weight higher up the face will raise the COG relative to the others. More mass is in the middle. This should help keep the ball flight down. By contrast maybe the Miura has a slightly higher launch?

 

I'm still of the position this borders on minutiae in terms of how much it affects ball flight, but who knows. I'll sign up for testing!

 

Again the depth (muscle thickness) will come into play. My assessment above assumes it is an equal thickness for most of the muscle.

[vaterman]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417062623' post='10509173']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1417029669' post='10506955']
This whole time a lot of these people that are nay sayers seem to think that people are not decent enough ball strikers right? WHAT IF....and I am reaching here.....not really.....but what if they person swinging has a decent swing. I can hit the center of the club face 9/10 times.....now center not sweet spot....sweet spot maybe 3/10 times.....the other 6 are perfectly acceptable shots, but not sweet spots by all means.

What about that? The thing is...I still think hitting the sweet spot has really nothing to do with your game. If the way the ball comes off the face puts you in the best situation. Be it sky high, a worm burner, constant hooks, constant slices....but works.....why is it such an issue to have to hit the sweet spot 100% to be able to hit a blade....its but repeated that even pro's hit the sweet spot about 50% of the time?
[/quote]

I was wanting to come back to this Exactice because my earlier response was about learning, but your point about hitting this proverbial sweetspot is a good one, and I could not get into detail posting from my phone earlier.

If you remember, I have posted a diagram twice now about mishits and I believe that a lot of them are more from face angle or swing path issues. Sure there are still off center hits on top of these, but really what causes a bad swing result was the incorrect face angle (or path…same thing in terms of the physics). If not face angle or path, then it may be that “turf” miss where you are either hitting it too thin or too fat. I’m going to go out on a limb and state that the off center miss may be the least likely type of miss, which is why the blade does not hurt the average golfer’s score. And why we all keep saying that a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of the iron used.

Now let’s look at the amateur’s supposed toe side miss. Was it really from a square path that was off center? Or was it from an on center hit with correct path but the face angle was either open or closed? With the face at an angle, the contact on the ball will appear as if it was a toe side miss but in reality the angle is what caused the ball to contact the face at the toe. Proof: address the ball with a mid iron and then either open or close the face while keeping the shaft and heel at the same place. The toe gets closer to the swing path into the center of the ball either way, so again it will appear as if you just hit it on the toe.

Compare this to the pro that doesn’t have the toe side miss. Maybe he is just better at keeping the face (or path) square!

And remember that all the “data” about the difference in distance from a mishit is based on only the off center hit using a robot. There’s not really any data about swing path (or face angle) miss differences between a blade and a CB.

And lastly remember that when you are working the ball, some of those “misses” can actually result in a decent shot. For example if you miss with the face angle in just the right position, you could still spin the ball and work it just as well as if you hit it on the center while trying to work it through the swing path. LOL sometimes your errors get canceled out.

Edit: I guess in summary maybe we don't really have off center swing path issues but rather face angle hit issues and this is not helped that much by a CB. Also here is the diagram but without my earlier explanation:
[/quote]
Thats funny. Just thought of something like this today as other reasons for having a high hcp. but still blade as "well" as you play GI

[shooterMcGee]

[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1417047708' post='10508137'][quote name='shooterMcGee' timestamp='1417047347' post='10508119']
Look what this random bird just dropped at my door:[attachment=2513797:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1417047282.663151.jpg][attachment=2513799:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1417047293.343094.jpg]
And some of these...I've been looking to try these shafts out! How weird![attachment=2513801:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1417047342.248649.jpg]
[/quote]

Please don't take this the wrong way....but I hate you really hard right now.

Nothing personal you realize....just rampant uncontrollable and unreasonable jealousy.

Those are simply awsome[/quote]thanks Chuck! Yeah I've been waiting to try these babies out and compare them to the FG100's. By the way, I wanna wish everyone on here a Happy Thanksgiving! It's weird but I feel like you guys are kind of my buds now! Lol.

[Bigmean]

I agree with the minutia on the blades, and my Vegas with kbs tour stiff are higher flight than Miuras with nippon 1150 tours, so I don't know what to make of that other than it probably doesn't matter much hahaha.

I really should not have hit those balls yesterday....I am sore this morning, but I don't think I did any major setback. This stupid rib injury just does not want to heal fast..... very annoying.

[Bigmean]

Happy thanksgiving guys!

[shooterMcGee]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1417095260' post='10509857']I agree with the minutia on the blades, and my Vegas with kbs tour stiff are higher flight than Miuras with nippon 1150 tours, so I don't know what to make of that other than it probably doesn't matter much hahaha.

I really should not have hit those balls yesterday....I am sore this morning, but I don't think I did any major setback. This stupid rib injury just does not want to heal fast..... very annoying.[/quote]heal good BM! Probably should consider taping some "vibration dampening" rubber pieces on the back of your blades to prevent further injury.lol

[vaterman]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1417051461' post='10508417']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417045744' post='10508019']
T.
I missed your last reply.
I have Dynalite S300 in the APS.
It is a good question what I seek. Other than: "what can I say. I like new shiny things." I do not have an intelligent answer. But i will sleep on it and get back on thar.
[/quote]

you;re just being a regular guy who likes his toys. so dont buy those s series irons from ping or the bridgestone j38's because those have a satin finish. get something shiny. if you just want a toy you dont need help from us...but maybe you enjoy the shopping process.

irons that i think are stunning looking are the bridgestone j40 cavity backs and they come w. project x shafts as standard...and they've some muscle back properties whilst being a cavity back. bridgestone is coming out w. a blade in 2015 but are only doing one run so they will quickly sell out and be gone prob never to reappear..endo forged i assume. bridgestone endo's tend to feel firmer than mizuno but not clicky

mizuno = room temp butter

bridgestone = refrigerated butter

titleist = margarine
[/quote]
T.
Man... I told many times in this thread that my current set is AP2 and that I think they look good. Not the best looking but good. AP2 are satin finish. Shiny wasn't ment to be literal. I actually don´t fancy chrome very much. It s just you know... boys like shiny Things.

I appreciate the help from this thread. All the suggestions, Pictures etc. of nice Clubs are great. The shaft talk and the knowledge in general. It does go way back to many pages ago but when I entered I started by asking if I could participate. As I am obviously not a guy that are going back to blades I suggested I could be participating as a guy that considered shifting to blades and that I could write about this process. My eksperiments and thoughts etc.

I would have a point that my presense is outside the scope of the thread but i was wellcomed. So I participated. So far my experiments has been positive enough to get me a more modern set of blades but a Little later the thread and as the thread turned it altered a bit to see if I could find the perfect set. Not important at all just fun and someone with pasion that wants to share.

And I do have a better answer to your great question "What do you seek". At least I have the concept but you know... me and English. Takes a while to put in print

[DeNinny]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417094875' post='10509849']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417062623' post='10509173']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1417029669' post='10506955']
This whole time a lot of these people that are nay sayers seem to think that people are not decent enough ball strikers right? WHAT IF....and I am reaching here.....not really.....but what if they person swinging has a decent swing. I can hit the center of the club face 9/10 times.....now center not sweet spot....sweet spot maybe 3/10 times.....the other 6 are perfectly acceptable shots, but not sweet spots by all means.

What about that? The thing is...I still think hitting the sweet spot has really nothing to do with your game. If the way the ball comes off the face puts you in the best situation. Be it sky high, a worm burner, constant hooks, constant slices....but works.....why is it such an issue to have to hit the sweet spot 100% to be able to hit a blade....its but repeated that even pro's hit the sweet spot about 50% of the time?
[/quote]

I was wanting to come back to this Exactice because my earlier response was about learning, but your point about hitting this proverbial sweetspot is a good one, and I could not get into detail posting from my phone earlier.

If you remember, I have posted a diagram twice now about mishits and I believe that a lot of them are more from face angle or swing path issues. Sure there are still off center hits on top of these, but really what causes a bad swing result was the incorrect face angle (or path…same thing in terms of the physics). If not face angle or path, then it may be that “turf” miss where you are either hitting it too thin or too fat. I’m going to go out on a limb and state that the off center miss may be the least likely type of miss, which is why the blade does not hurt the average golfer’s score. And why we all keep saying that a bad shot is a bad shot regardless of the iron used.

Now let’s look at the amateur’s supposed toe side miss. Was it really from a square path that was off center? Or was it from an on center hit with correct path but the face angle was either open or closed? With the face at an angle, the contact on the ball will appear as if it was a toe side miss but in reality the angle is what caused the ball to contact the face at the toe. Proof: address the ball with a mid iron and then either open or close the face while keeping the shaft and heel at the same place. The toe gets closer to the swing path into the center of the ball either way, so again it will appear as if you just hit it on the toe.

Compare this to the pro that doesn’t have the toe side miss. Maybe he is just better at keeping the face (or path) square!

And remember that all the “data” about the difference in distance from a mishit is based on only the off center hit using a robot. There’s not really any data about swing path (or face angle) miss differences between a blade and a CB.

And lastly remember that when you are working the ball, some of those “misses” can actually result in a decent shot. For example if you miss with the face angle in just the right position, you could still spin the ball and work it just as well as if you hit it on the center while trying to work it through the swing path. LOL sometimes your errors get canceled out.

Edit: I guess in summary maybe we don't really have off center swing path issues but rather face angle hit issues and this is not helped that much by a CB. Also here is the diagram but without my earlier explanation:
[/quote]
Thats funny. Just thought of something like this today as other reasons for having a high hcp. but still blade as "well" as you play GI
[/quote]
This plays into a lot of the statistical insignificance of the forgiving design. The cavity is just not enough technology to help when there are so many ways to miss the ball and all golfer's swings are still so random and variable. Then you add the other drawbacks like poorer distance control, feedback, feel, and workability and it becomes even less helpful to use a CB over a blade. And lastly we are talking about this help/forgiveness for really just mid/long iron shots which amount to a handful of strokes in a round. End result is statistical insignificance.

This is a part of the science. It's the bigger picture of it vs the very very limited view of just looking at Sergio's miss pattern from a few shots, for an advertisement, mind you, or the overly touted 16 yard miss difference from robot testing between the two iron types.

Furthermore let's not forget that despite the arguments and repetition of said arguments, there is still no definitive data that proves the iron you use lowers your score.

Lastly how come so many golfers keep entering these threads and stating they play blades and found they don't hurt their score through personal real world experience? Sure this is not absolute but is a very significant number if you just read all the BvCB threads.

[DeNinny]

Bull$hit vaterman. You are coming back to blades in the spirit of this thread. You were simply steered in the wrong direction through the marketing and hearsay, so now you are back revisiting it.

Bigmean and All, happy thanksgiving. I am thankful that one of my problems in life is arguing over the internet. That is a good problem to have. Relatively speaking.

[Nessism]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417096463' post='10509915']
This plays into a lot of the statistical insignificance of the forgiving design. The cavity is just not enough technology to help when there are so many ways to miss the ball and all golfer's swings are still so random and variable. Then you add the other drawbacks like poorer distance control, feedback, feel, and workability and it becomes even less helpful to use a CB over a blade. And lastly we are talking about this help/forgiveness for really just mid/long iron shots which amount to a handful of strokes in a round. End result is statistical insignificance.

This is a part of the science. It's the bigger picture of it vs the very very limited view of just looking at Sergio's miss pattern from a few shots, for an advertisement, mind you, or the overly touted 16 yard miss difference from robot testing between the two iron types.

Furthermore let's not forget that despite the arguments and repetition of said arguments, there is still no definitive data that proves the iron you use lowers your score.

Lastly how come so many golfers keep entering these threads and stating they play blades and found they don't hurt their score through personal real world experience? Sure this is not absolute but is a very significant number if you just read all the BvCB threads.
[/quote]

I disagree with the above.

About a month ago I played my G25's at a course with a bunch of greens guarded by bunkers in front. Had a 9-iron from 146 that I toed, and the ball cleared the bunker by less than a yard. If I had blades I'd have been in the bunker. This exact same situation played out two times during the round. I was thinking to myself as my ball cleared the bunker that I wish one of you Golfwrx blade-nazi's was watching so I could rub their nose in the dung. My sand saves ratio is about 25%, but my two putt ratio is about 95%.

You can say whatever you want about lack of "proof", but anyone with half a brain recognizes the advantage GI clubs hold when you miss the center of the face of the club.

This video shows the advantage of GI club technology (watch the robot hitting test later in the video). No freaking way a toed blade would hit the ball hole high. Dismiss this advantage if you like, but not everyone reinvents physics the way you seem to.




[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o[/url]

[T.Beau]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417095987' post='10509893']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1417051461' post='10508417']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417045744' post='10508019']
T.
I missed your last reply.
I have Dynalite S300 in the APS.
It is a good question what I seek. Other than: "what can I say. I like new shiny things." I do not have an intelligent answer. But i will sleep on it and get back on thar.
[/quote]

you;re just being a regular guy who likes his toys. so dont buy those s series irons from ping or the bridgestone j38's because those have a satin finish. get something shiny. if you just want a toy you dont need help from us...but maybe you enjoy the shopping process.

irons that i think are stunning looking are the bridgestone j40 cavity backs and they come w. project x shafts as standard...and they've some muscle back properties whilst being a cavity back. bridgestone is coming out w. a blade in 2015 but are only doing one run so they will quickly sell out and be gone prob never to reappear..endo forged i assume. bridgestone endo's tend to feel firmer than mizuno but not clicky

mizuno = room temp butter

bridgestone = refrigerated butter

titleist = margarine
[/quote]
T.
Man... I told many times in this thread that my current set is AP2 and that I think they look good. Not the best looking but good. AP2 are satin finish. Shiny wasn't ment to be literal. I actually don´t fancy chrome very much. It s just you know... boys like shiny Things.

I appreciate the help from this thread. All the suggestions, Pictures etc. of nice Clubs are great. The shaft talk and the knowledge in general. It does go way back to many pages ago but when I entered I started by asking if I could participate. As I am obviously not a guy that are going back to blades I suggested I could be participating as a guy that considered shifting to blades and that I could write about this process. My eksperiments and thoughts etc.

I would have a point that my presense is outside the scope of the thread but i was wellcomed. So I participated. So far my experiments has been positive enough to get me a more modern set of blades but a Little later the thread and as the thread turned it altered a bit to see if I could find the perfect set. Not important at all just fun and someone with pasion that wants to share.

And I do have a better answer to your great question "What do you seek". At least I have the concept but you know... me and English. Takes a while to put in print
[/quote]

i understand. you are not going back to blades. no need to justify your presence here.

hoist a glass this day containing whatever it is you Danes enjoy drinking in honour of our thanksgiving...

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417097791' post='10509983']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417096463' post='10509915']
This plays into a lot of the statistical insignificance of the forgiving design. The cavity is just not enough technology to help when there are so many ways to miss the ball and all golfer's swings are still so random and variable. Then you add the other drawbacks like poorer distance control, feedback, feel, and workability and it becomes even less helpful to use a CB over a blade. And lastly we are talking about this help/forgiveness for really just mid/long iron shots which amount to a handful of strokes in a round. End result is statistical insignificance.

This is a part of the science. It's the bigger picture of it vs the very very limited view of just looking at Sergio's miss pattern from a few shots, for an advertisement, mind you, or the overly touted 16 yard miss difference from robot testing between the two iron types.

Furthermore let's not forget that despite the arguments and repetition of said arguments, there is still no definitive data that proves the iron you use lowers your score.

Lastly how come so many golfers keep entering these threads and stating they play blades and found they don't hurt their score through personal real world experience? Sure this is not absolute but is a very significant number if you just read all the BvCB threads.
[/quote]

I disagree with the above.

About a month ago I played my G25's at a course with a bunch of greens guarded by bunkers in front. Had a 9-iron from 146 that I toed, and the ball cleared the bunker by less than a yard. If I had blades I'd have been in the bunker. This exact same situation played out two times during the round. I was thinking to myself as my ball cleared the bunker that I wish one of you Golfwrx blade-nazi's was watching so I could rub their nose in the dung. My sand saves ratio is about 25%, but my two putt ratio is about 95%.

You can say whatever you want about lack of "proof", but anyone with half a brain recognizes the advantage GI clubs hold when you miss the center of the face of the club.

This video shows the advantage of GI club technology (watch the robot hitting test later in the video). No freaking way a toed blade would hit the ball hole high. Dismiss this advantage if you like, but not everyone reinvents physics the way you seem to.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o#t=11"]http://www.youtube.c...Q8NqsaAF9o#t=11[/url]
[/quote]
Nessism you just took one missed shot and assumed you just ruined your total score. Seems exactly in line with the limited view that I just mentioned so thank you for proving my point.

That video was again was per my point of arguing with limited data. You bring up a robot test based on one specific miss type and automatically assume this translates to ALL golfers that miss on the toe just like that robot did. There's a lot of assumptions. Again thank you for proving my point.

Why don't you do some on course side by side testing with a blade in hand, that you have practiced with, and then come back to this thread? You may have some fun doing it and learn more than just making assumptions from using only your CBs and using just one mishit shot. Seriously here. Blades are fun!

[vaterman]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1417098263' post='10510019']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417095987' post='10509893']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1417051461' post='10508417']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417045744' post='10508019']
T.
I missed your last reply.
I have Dynalite S300 in the APS.
It is a good question what I seek. Other than: "what can I say. I like new shiny things." I do not have an intelligent answer. But i will sleep on it and get back on thar.
[/quote]

you;re just being a regular guy who likes his toys. so dont buy those s series irons from ping or the bridgestone j38's because those have a satin finish. get something shiny. if you just want a toy you dont need help from us...but maybe you enjoy the shopping process.

irons that i think are stunning looking are the bridgestone j40 cavity backs and they come w. project x shafts as standard...and they've some muscle back properties whilst being a cavity back. bridgestone is coming out w. a blade in 2015 but are only doing one run so they will quickly sell out and be gone prob never to reappear..endo forged i assume. bridgestone endo's tend to feel firmer than mizuno but not clicky

mizuno = room temp butter

bridgestone = refrigerated butter

titleist = margarine
[/quote]
T.
Man... I told many times in this thread that my current set is AP2 and that I think they look good. Not the best looking but good. AP2 are satin finish. Shiny wasn't ment to be literal. I actually don´t fancy chrome very much. It s just you know... boys like shiny Things.

I appreciate the help from this thread. All the suggestions, Pictures etc. of nice Clubs are great. The shaft talk and the knowledge in general. It does go way back to many pages ago but when I entered I started by asking if I could participate. As I am obviously not a guy that are going back to blades I suggested I could be participating as a guy that considered shifting to blades and that I could write about this process. My eksperiments and thoughts etc.

I would have a point that my presense is outside the scope of the thread but i was wellcomed. So I participated. So far my experiments has been positive enough to get me a more modern set of blades but a Little later the thread and as the thread turned it altered a bit to see if I could find the perfect set. Not important at all just fun and someone with pasion that wants to share.

And I do have a better answer to your great question "What do you seek". At least I have the concept but you know... me and English. Takes a while to put in print
[/quote]

i understand. you are not going back to blades. no need to justify your presence here.

hoist a glass this day containing whatever it is you Danes enjoy drinking in honour of our thanksgiving...
[/quote]
Thanks. That will be a glass of milk and chicken liver for me.
We don't do thanksgiving. Secretly we believe that the rest of the World should be thankfull that we are here. No Dane would publicly say that though...

Kididing aside. Have a nice Thanksgiviing T.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417097791' post='10509983']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417096463' post='10509915']
This plays into a lot of the statistical insignificance of the forgiving design. The cavity is just not enough technology to help when there are so many ways to miss the ball and all golfer's swings are still so random and variable. Then you add the other drawbacks like poorer distance control, feedback, feel, and workability and it becomes even less helpful to use a CB over a blade. And lastly we are talking about this help/forgiveness for really just mid/long iron shots which amount to a handful of strokes in a round. End result is statistical insignificance.

This is a part of the science. It's the bigger picture of it vs the very very limited view of just looking at Sergio's miss pattern from a few shots, for an advertisement, mind you, or the overly touted 16 yard miss difference from robot testing between the two iron types.

Furthermore let's not forget that despite the arguments and repetition of said arguments, there is still no definitive data that proves the iron you use lowers your score.

Lastly how come so many golfers keep entering these threads and stating they play blades and found they don't hurt their score through personal real world experience? Sure this is not absolute but is a very significant number if you just read all the BvCB threads.
[/quote]

I disagree with the above.

About a month ago I played my G25's at a course with a bunch of greens guarded by bunkers in front. Had a 9-iron from 146 that I toed, and the ball cleared the bunker by less than a yard. If I had blades I'd have been in the bunker. This exact same situation played out two times during the round. I was thinking to myself as my ball cleared the bunker that I wish one of you Golfwrx blade-nazi's was watching so I could rub their nose in the dung. My sand saves ratio is about 25%, but my two putt ratio is about 95%.

You can say whatever you want about lack of "proof", but anyone with half a brain recognizes the advantage GI clubs hold when you miss the center of the face of the club.

This video shows the advantage of GI club technology (watch the robot hitting test later in the video). No freaking way a toed blade would hit the ball hole high. Dismiss this advantage if you like, but not everyone reinvents physics the way you seem to.


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o#t=11"]http://www.youtube.c...Q8NqsaAF9o#t=11[/url]
[/quote]

yes that is just common sense. same thing happened to me yesterday..and it happens pretty often. par 3 carry over water. i hit 3 tee balls on that hole. first one just fine..hole high left to 10 ft or so. second one a little push or wind gust or fade or whatever hole high bunker. 3rd one mis hit..online but cleared the water but not by much and ended up in fringe area short...would have definitely been wet with a blade....obviously wet. ended up up and down for a par..would have struggled to make bogey with a wet ball

directionally would no better with a blade. mis hit and ball could be wet. it really is hard to get lost strokes back and lost striokes have a bigger impact for a low to no handicapper than a high handicapper....especially since most of us dont putt on perfect greens like the pros do, so it is harder to make putts.

so very easy to say that distance control is far worse with a blade..not better as is being jammed down our gullets. thats why most of the pros dont use blades....ahhh the reverseness of club selection where the mid handicapper plays blades and the pro plays something less demanding

[vaterman]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417097033' post='10509945']
Bull$hit vaterman. You are coming back to blades in the spirit of this thread. You were simply steered in the wrong direction through the marketing and hearsay, so now you are back revisiting it.

Bigmean and All, happy thanksgiving. I am thankful that one of my problems in life is arguing over the internet. That is a good problem to have. Relatively speaking.
[/quote]
Ninny man... thanks to you I now have a keyboard to clean from coffee splash and snot...
I was mislead by the dark side...

The force is strong with this kid... Hulk... where are you...

[Nessism]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417098716' post='10510037']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417097791' post='10509983']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o#t=11"]http://www.youtube.c...Q8NqsaAF9o#t=11[/url]
[/quote]
Nessism you just took one missed shot and assumed you just ruined your total score. Seems exactly in line with the limited view that I just mentioned so thank you for proving my point.

That video was again was per my point of arguing with limited data. You bring up a robot test based on one specific miss type and automatically assume this translates to ALL golfers that miss on the toe just like that robot did. There's a lot of assumptions. Again thank you for proving my point.

Why don't you do some on course side by side testing with a blade in hand, that you have practiced with, and then come back to this thread? You may have some fun doing it and learn more than just making assumptions from using only your CBs and using just one mishit shot. Seriously here. Blades are fun!
[/quote]

I played blades for 15 years. Trust me, I know blades, both the good side and bad.

My handicap is currently 6.9, and my putting sucks or it would be lower. At my level there is no way I'd play blades if trying to score was the goal of the round. My miss is out on the toe and fat, two mishit situations where blades lead to BAD shot results. You can dismiss the advantages of GI, but saying there is no "proof" is disingenuous.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417099343' post='10510083']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417098716' post='10510037']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417097791' post='10509983']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o#t=11"]http://www.youtube.c...Q8NqsaAF9o#t=11[/url]
[/quote]
Nessism you just took one missed shot and assumed you just ruined your total score. Seems exactly in line with the limited view that I just mentioned so thank you for proving my point.

That video was again was per my point of arguing with limited data. You bring up a robot test based on one specific miss type and automatically assume this translates to ALL golfers that miss on the toe just like that robot did. There's a lot of assumptions. Again thank you for proving my point.

Why don't you do some on course side by side testing with a blade in hand, that you have practiced with, and then come back to this thread? You may have some fun doing it and learn more than just making assumptions from using only your CBs and using just one mishit shot. Seriously here. Blades are fun!
[/quote]

I played blades for 15 years. Trust me, I know blades, both the good side and bad.

My handicap is currently 6.9, and my putting sucks or it would be lower. At my level there is no way I'd play blades if trying to score was the goal of the round. My miss is out on the toe and fat, two mishit situations where blades lead to BAD shot results. You can dismiss the advantages of GI, but saying there is no "proof" is disingenuous.
[/quote]
I said do side by side testing.

You still don't know for sure if those blades are costing you strokes. If you looked at them more positively and that they may help you on shots outside of just your toe miss (which by they way I explained you can hit on the toe with the right swing but with an angled clubface, unlike the robot test miss), you may find they help in other situations.

So blades may not work for you but also you just may be negative about them which doesn't help you hit them better.

What's disingenuous is accusing me of an argument or point I NEVER made.

I keep saying there's no absolute SCORING proof that GI helps. You keep arguing by a using single shot or toe miss with robot data to try to refute something I never stated.

[DeNinny]

By the way Nessism my points are to the guys that have a similar blade experience to help explain why they found the same thing I did. I am completely open to the fact that CBs have benefit and will help some golfers. But this is not universal to all golfers. They all have a myriad of ways to miss the ball.

BTW nice TaylorMade INFOMERCIAL. Do you own every TaylorMade product ever released?

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417099343' post='10510083']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417098716' post='10510037']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417097791' post='10509983']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o#t=11"]http://www.youtube.c...Q8NqsaAF9o#t=11[/url]
[/quote]
Nessism you just took one missed shot and assumed you just ruined your total score. Seems exactly in line with the limited view that I just mentioned so thank you for proving my point.

That video was again was per my point of arguing with limited data. You bring up a robot test based on one specific miss type and automatically assume this translates to ALL golfers that miss on the toe just like that robot did. There's a lot of assumptions. Again thank you for proving my point.

Why don't you do some on course side by side testing with a blade in hand, that you have practiced with, and then come back to this thread? You may have some fun doing it and learn more than just making assumptions from using only your CBs and using just one mishit shot. Seriously here. Blades are fun!
[/quote]

I played blades for 15 years. Trust me, I know blades, both the good side and bad.

My handicap is currently 6.9, and my putting sucks or it would be lower. At my level there is no way I'd play blades if trying to score was the goal of the round. My miss is out on the toe and fat, two mishit situations where blades lead to BAD shot results. You can dismiss the advantages of GI, but saying there is no "proof" is disingenuous.
[/quote]

Toe miss explains a lot. Though I've played some blades that actually weren't bad on the odd toe miss, Palmer Standards being one that immediately comes to mind.

Though Palmers aren't going to be too helpful with the turf and the slightly fat miss.

[Nessism]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417100409' post='10510139']

[u][b]I said do side by side testing.[/b][/u]

You still don't know for sure if those blades are costing you strokes. If you looked at them more positively and that they may help you on shots outside of just your toe miss (which by they way I explained you can hit on the toe with the right swing but with an angled clubface, unlike the robot test miss), you may find they help in other situations.

So blades may not work for you but also you just may be negative about them which doesn't help you hit them better.

What's disingenuous is accusing me of an argument or point I NEVER made.

I keep saying there's no absolute SCORING proof that GI helps. You keep arguing by a using single shot or toe miss with robot data to try to refute something I never stated.
[/quote]

I HAVE done side by side testing. Until a couple of years ago I used a set of Macgregor 1025 CM irons, and I kept a spare 7-iron blade from the set until just recently (when I gave the thing away). Blades feel awesome when you nut the shot, but don't miss the center of the face or you give up a LOT of distance. There is no club striking situation that the blade would show an advantage at my skill level. I'm currently switching back and forth between G25's and Mizuno MX-23's and 25's (bought two sets).

GI irons hit the ball closer to the hole when you miss the center of the club compared to that of a similar strike with a blade. Unless someone is an elite ball striker and can take advantage of the workability of a blade compared to a CB, there is no way to get back the lost strokes mishits cause.

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417100800' post='10510165']

BTW nice TaylorMade INFOMERCIAL. Do you own every TaylorMade product ever released?
[/quote]

Nice dig.

For the most part I'm not a TMaG fan, and haven't owned any of their clubs for a good long while. These new RSi irons have got me thinking though. I think these new face slots are superior technology.

[T.Beau]

I have found that blades are far better for carving Thanksgiving turkey than anything else..certainly better than using shovels......

Happy thanksgiving (to almost all of you)

[Nessism]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1417101144' post='10510187']
Toe miss explains a lot. Though I've played some blades that actually weren't bad on the odd toe miss, Palmer Standards being one that immediately comes to mind.

Though Palmers aren't going to be too helpful with the turf and the slightly fat miss.
[/quote]

I played Palmer "Peerless" blades for more than 10 years. 1-SW with "D" flex shafts (tipped regular). Loved those clubs, particularly the 1-iron. They suck on toe hits though because the blade length is about the shortest of any club I've ever seen.

[NRJyzr]

I've always been intrigued by the Peerless blades, but I've never owned a set. IIRC, they have pinned hosels, not something I generally care to mess with in a reshaft job.

I've always felt Wilson Staffs, with their heavier muscle out to the toe, along with the already-mentioned Palmers, were better on toe hits than most blades, because of that weight distribution. I always assumed Palmer took that "Wilson-ish" muscle distribution with him to Pro Group.

The clubhead MOI of any club, even a blade, can be improved by adding to the horizontal dimensions. This was an aspect of the old Golfsmith Professional Grinds; as I remember it, the blade length for them was 82mm, more than most blades.

Along those lines, the Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1 putter that I use is a somewhat larger heel shafted blade (noticeably larger than my Cleveland Designed By, but I haven't measured exactly how much). When it was a current model, Golfsmith had the clubhead MOI of it published on their site, it was higher than a Ping Anser. I found that interesting.
(MacGregor Response putter, anyone? LOL)

[shooterMcGee]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417099343' post='10510083'][quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417098716' post='10510037']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417097791' post='10509983']
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQ8NqsaAF9o#t=11"]http://www.youtube.c...Q8NqsaAF9o#t=11[/url]
[/quote]
Nessism you just took one missed shot and assumed you just ruined your total score. Seems exactly in line with the limited view that I just mentioned so thank you for proving my point.

That video was again was per my point of arguing with limited data. You bring up a robot test based on one specific miss type and automatically assume this translates to ALL golfers that miss on the toe just like that robot did. There's a lot of assumptions. Again thank you for proving my point.

Why don't you do some on course side by side testing with a blade in hand, that you have practiced with, and then come back to this thread? You may have some fun doing it and learn more than just making assumptions from using only your CBs and using just one mishit shot. Seriously here. Blades are fun!
[/quote]

I played blades for 15 years. Trust me, I know blades, both the good side and bad.

My handicap is currently 6.9, and my putting sucks or it would be lower. At my level there is no way I'd play blades if trying to score was the goal of the round. My miss is out on the toe and fat, two mishit situations where blades lead to BAD shot results. You can dismiss the advantages of GI, but saying there is no "proof" is disingenuous.[/quote]i respect why you play what you play. Especially since you have had many years of experience playing blades. My only argument would be that you said your misses are out on the toe and fat. Now we both can agree that no club on this planet would "forgive" a fat shot. On the toe? Ok I'll give you that. But,, on your on course example you gave earlier about the shot over water that would have gone in the drink, had it been a blade. In my experience, shooting for a green over water 95% of the time, it's going to be with a scoring (ish) iron, like a 7-pw. If you're going for a green over water from 185+, either way you slice it, it's a "yellow light" situation. Either way this can be a dangerous shot not matter what iron is in your hand. Now for me, with a scoring iron, the mishits are never THAT bad, to where they're going to come up so short, that they're going to land in the drink. And if so, there's no cavity big enough that would've helped me. Bad mishits will usually come (for me) with a longer iron, say a 3 or a 4 where usually there's a little more room for error. Like from 200+ trying to reach a par 5 or something. But like T told me yesterday, different saddles for different butts.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417101148' post='10510189']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417100409' post='10510139']

[u][b]I said do side by side testing.[/b][/u]

You still don't know for sure if those blades are costing you strokes. If you looked at them more positively and that they may help you on shots outside of just your toe miss (which by they way I explained you can hit on the toe with the right swing but with an angled clubface, unlike the robot test miss), you may find they help in other situations.

So blades may not work for you but also you just may be negative about them which doesn't help you hit them better.

What's disingenuous is accusing me of an argument or point I NEVER made.

I keep saying there's no absolute SCORING proof that GI helps. You keep arguing by a using single shot or toe miss with robot data to try to refute something I never stated.
[/quote]

I HAVE done side by side testing. Until a couple of years ago I used a set of Macgregor 1025 CM irons, and I kept a spare 7-iron blade from the set until just recently (when I gave the thing away). Blades feel awesome when you nut the shot, but don't miss the center of the face or you give up a LOT of distance. There is no club striking situation that the blade would show an advantage at my skill level. I'm currently switching back and forth between G25's and Mizuno MX-23's and 25's (bought two sets).

GI irons hit the ball closer to the hole when you miss the center of the club compared to that of a similar strike with a blade. Unless someone is an elite ball striker and can take advantage of the workability of a blade compared to a CB, there is no way to get back the lost strokes mishits cause.

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417100800' post='10510165']

BTW nice TaylorMade INFOMERCIAL. Do you own every TaylorMade product ever released?
[/quote]

Nice dig.

For the most part I'm not a TMaG fan, and haven't owned any of their clubs for a good long while. These new RSi irons have got me thinking though. I think these new face slots are superior technology.
[/quote]
Ok ok blades don't work for you and you refuse to acknowledge that you *could* play for a different miss with a blade to account for the difference. (Which I made this as a point to you several times now. Who doesn't adjust their game to their known, common, misses?) But have you ever considered that maybe other golfers, who have just as much experience and personal knowledge of using CB and blades as you, have possibly come to different conclusion about them?

Why does your personal experience apply to me and everyone else? I'm not denying it. I'm just saying it doesn't apply to everyone and this is backed by science and statistics. Just like a CB mishit with a robot has science and statistics.

Also there's still no definitive final score data to prove any point. You can keep arguing the toe miss but the bottom line is final score.

By the way thanks too for numerous digs.

[DeNinny]

Ok off to play or practice now. With my CBs. For which I enjoy using and am not blind to using. For which I respect the OPINIONS on why others exclusively use them.

[Nessism]

[quote name='shooterMcGee' timestamp='1417102025' post='10510257']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1417099343' post='10510083']

I played blades for 15 years. Trust me, I know blades, both the good side and bad.

My handicap is currently 6.9, and my putting sucks or it would be lower. At my level there is no way I'd play blades if trying to score was the goal of the round. My miss is out on the toe and fat, two mishit situations where blades lead to BAD shot results. You can dismiss the advantages of GI, but saying there is no "proof" is disingenuous.[/quote]

i respect why you play what you play. Especially since you have had many years of experience playing blades. My only argument would be that you said your misses are out on the toe and fat. Now we both can agree that no club on this planet would "forgive" a fat shot. On the toe? Ok I'll give you that. But,, on your on course example you gave earlier about the shot over water that would have gone in the drink, had it been a blade. In my experience, shooting for a green over water 95% of the time, it's going to be with a scoring (ish) iron, like a 7-pw. If you're going for a green over water from 185+, either way you slice it, it's a "yellow light" situation. Either way this can be a dangerous shot not matter what iron is in your hand. Now for me, with a scoring iron, the mishits are never THAT bad, to where they're going to come up so short, that they're going to land in the drink. And if so, there's no cavity big enough that would've helped me. Bad mishits will usually come (for me) with a longer iron, say a 3 or a 4 where usually there's a little more room for error. Like from 200+ trying to reach a par 5 or something. But like T told me yesterday, different saddles for different butts.
[/quote]

Blades have narrow soles and a sharp leading edge. Very prone to digging if you catch the ball heavy. My miss isn't actually fat, more like too steep. I hit down aggressively. A wide sole GI iron with a killed leading edge is far better for misses like this.

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417102555' post='10510287']

Ok ok blades don't work for you and you refuse to acknowledge that you *could* play for a different miss with a blade to account for the difference. (Which I made this as a point to you several times now. Who doesn't adjust their game to their known, common, misses?) But have you ever considered that maybe other golfers, who have just as much experience and personal knowledge of using CB and blades as you, have possibly come to different conclusion about them?

Why does your personal experience apply to me and everyone else? I'm not denying it. I'm just saying it doesn't apply to everyone and this is backed by science and statistics. Just like a CB mishit with a robot has science and statistics.

Also there's still no definitive final score data to prove any point. You can keep arguing the toe miss but the bottom line is final score.

By the way thanks too for numerous digs.
[/quote]

What does "play to a different miss" mean? I'm not changing my game to match the clubs I want to play. More the other way around, I select clubs which make my misses less penal.

Regarding "But have you ever considered that maybe other golfers, who have just as much experience and personal knowledge of using CB and blades as you, have possibly come to different conclusion about them?", I don't know what this means either. My "experience and personal knowledge" is simply that off center strikes lose less distance with GI clubs. This is not a matter of opinion either, it the law of physics. I'm not adding any opinion into this.

The only place where my opinion comes in is that I believe very few players above a low single digit handicap can actually use blades to an advantage. Only a small percentage of pros use blades so that should tell us something right there.

Lastly, I get this business about how golf is a game and people play what's most fun for them. I'm down with this all the way. Play blades for fun. Again, no problem, but just don't tell me there are technical advantages to them for midcappers.