Back to life, back to reality (blades for me)

[Bigmean]

I lost the 681T auction.....those go for serious coin. I wonder if the "T" version is miura forged? If I knew that would make it easier for me to expand my limit.....

I am starting a very long term, very specific blade collection. Both clubs are on the list regardless, I am just going to try to buy right. I have of course no need for these, and I worry that I will end up with too many good sets to play (high class problems, I know), but for the same reasons repeated here, I don't think it matters much. Since taking possession of my loft lie machine, I feel very confident I can match sets to where with enough time I can distance match all sets and literally have no issues playing sets like wearing clothes. Distance control is the biggest problem with playing multiple sets, and I know that distance matching is a lot harder than just making lofts the same. I am curious to see if any sets inherently are longer or shorter at the same lofts, likely if all lofts are equal, from there it will be a matter of 1/2-1 degree to get them to all play the same distance. The biggest hurdle would be the time necessary to tune them, which unfortunately will not really be range possible. I wonder if I match clubs, say 7 irons, then equally change lofts from there without needing to go through extensive set testing. Has anyone here done that across a few sets?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1417177534' post='10513267']
I just tried an interesting experiment....

I went back and read the first post. And a few thoughts came to me as I did:

1) He played the AP2's for a year...fully committed to them.
2) His game did not improve (for him)
3) His distance control and workability suffered using the AP2's
4) Didn't judge anyone...simply said "good luck to all" and affirmed to himself that he preferred to play blades.
5) Stated that you shouldn't believe what everyone says....but rather should try things out for yourself.

....

To the OP's original point I pose a question:

Have you used CB or GI irons....and switched back or into a blade/muscle back iron and enjoyed an improvement your quality of play or enjoyment of the game?
[/quote]

chuck thanks for this post and resetting my perspective in this thread. Also I have to thank jewofgolf as well. To answer the question, I'd like to expand on three of my own experiences per this topic:

1) [b]Deciding to buy my MP-67s as a 16 index.[/b] At the time I played Cleveland CG2s that I had bought used. I had been playing them for maybe a year and I had brought my handicap to below bogey within this time. I had a set a goal for myself to get below bogey index and I would buy a brand new set as my reward for reaching the goal. At the fitting I had hit all the CBs and GIs that the fitter threw at me and we had a lot of launch monitor data for all the various clubs. I told the fitter I wanted to try blades and selected MP-32s, MP-67s, and Titleist MBs (I think 595 or 695). He gave me an odd look and that usual "sell" to go with one of the more forgiving clubs I hit well, but I said I wanted to try them and so I did. Well at that fitting I hit all three of those blades every bit as well as any other CB/GI club, if not better than several of them. They certainly equaled the performance of my CG2s. I had not hit a blade in years, so I forgot the feeling. Well, hitting those three blades at the fitting was a euphoric moment for me. That feeling sold me right then and there. And I have never been the same since.

I bought the MP-67s and as I played with them in comparison to my CG2s for a few months, I really began to learn how much better they felt on good hits and how horrible they felt on bad hits as compared to the CG2s. The difference in feel was leaps and bounds better and worse depending on the shot quality. But the feeling of a good strike always outweighed the bad feelings of a poor strike. I can't tell you enough how that feeling fed my golf "bug", and motivated me to keep trying to attain it, and it very much increased my enjoyment of the game. I have said it before and I will say again, there is no better feeling in golf than hitting a well struck blade, and I discovered this with the purchase of my MP-67s.

I will also mention again that my handicap did not suffer when I bought the MP-67s. It continued to drop at a good rate because at the time I was relearning the game with continued practice and dedication to get better. Did playing the blades slow down or accelerate my rate of learning? I have no idea. I just knew that they weren't making me play worse.

2) [b]Getting rid of my MP-FliHi's and going back to my MP-67 3i/4i.[/b] I had a horrible time trying to improve my game by using the MP-FliHi hybrid irons. Since I mentioned this all before I will simply say that the switch back was another enhancement of my enjoyment of the game and also an improvement to my handicap.

3) [b]Switching back to my MP-67s after using my MP-60s for a bit[/b]. I can say that every single time I go back to the MP-67s, it is a joy. I get improved shot control (on good shots), feel, and feedback every time I switch back. I can't say I score lower from the switch on average, but my enjoyment of the game increases and I feel like I can score my lowest with them (and I have proven this thus far). I don't want to make it seem like I don't like my MP-60s because I like how they feel and perform, for the most part, but they simply just don't feel as good (or as bad, admittedly) as my MP-67s.

I also want to mention that my ballstriking has vastly improved over the last two years, and now as I have switched back to my MP-60s, I have learned recently that they are worse for distance control on good shots. I think when I was worse that I accepted mediocre results with either club, but now that I am hitting better, I don't like that mediocre result with MP-60s any more. Learning to hit my MP-67s well has been sort of a curse recently. I don't want to downgrade in feedback, feel, and control (on good shots only) anymore by switching back to my MP-60s. LOL I'm thinking about this thread more as I use them, and that is not really helping me get used to them again. I miss my blades more now because of this thread!

[DeNinny]

[quote name='shooterMcGee' timestamp='1417205286' post='10514625']
Hello...Happy Day after Thanksgiving everyone! I hope this thread is allowed to continue because there is much information by many intelligent people and I feel it has been a tremendous amount of fun.
[/quote]
shooter you have made this thread a lot of fun and educational yourself. I am having fun as well from all the information shared and just the thread in general. I won't ever get to try all these blades mentioned in this thread, so reading everyone's experiences with them has been a vicarious pleasure and also highly informative. I am so glad we can continue the thread.

[thug the bunny]

Hey guys, I have to offer an apology. I think it was a post of mine that got this thread put in the cooler. I was retorting to those two (really just asking them again why they were here) and perhaps got a bit overzealous.

I promise from here on I will just ignore them and stay on topic.

Speaking of which, I had (and still have) the Mac Vfoils, and while they felt really solid, I did not like seeing that vfoil sticking out the back of the long irons.

[Chuck_22046]

Realizing this will no doubt make me seem like a total nike homer....I just saw some pics of the nike vapor pro blades.

methinks I want to hit these puppies!!!

[Bigmean]

I am more to blame than you, and I can promise once this thread gets uncooled, I will not be a reason for any more disciplinary actions. I don't like how certain people specifically post things intended to antagonize and promote thread destruction, and I do think it is a shame that proper forum etiquette is to ignore, and thus allowing the antagonists to corrupt the thread under a false guise by specifically inciting people while they themselves making sure what they post is "proper" while still digging as much as possible, but such is the real world I suppose as the burden is generally on those being imposed on rather than the imposers. Not to be confused with poseurs, which we all are proud to be I promise to not engage in negativity anymore as well.

[bushy007]

Took my "new" Mp 33's out this week and it is like falling in love all over again. Yeah they may be harder to use generally but I could care less. I'm hitting them well, they feel amazing, and they are so precise it's not funny. Can't wait to get them out in competition this weekend.

[DeNinny]

Hey bushy007 what did you play before the mp33s?

[vaterman]

So. Guys. I have eyed a set that could serve as a pretty cool blade test set. Huge Price reduction and I can get them almost with the right shaft weight whic is almost impossible in the used market I have found a few sets of used blades with "my" shaft but the price is almost the same as these new ones.

You like?
[attachment=2520699:AMpic3.jpeg]
[attachment=2520701:AMPic4.jpeg]
[attachment=2520703:AMpic5.jpeg]
[attachment=2520705:AMpic6.jpeg]

[shooterMcGee]

Question! There's a guy selling Vega vm-01 blades 4-pw brand new for less than $600 beans. Does this sound weird to anyone? Or am I losing my mind here? Here's a pic. They're stunning! [attachment=2520729:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1417620893.242272.jpg]

[Bigmean]

Congrats on some sweet new to you clubs! Interesting you said accurate.

One thing I have found with my blades vs cbs is that for whatever reason, I seem to have a tighter dispersion with blades. Distance is a lot of it, and I am not sure if there is any science behind a blade holding a line better, but if I am on with my titliests cbs, I am hitting lots of greens, if I am on with blades, I am throwing up balls that flag hunt.

I played a round this summer, shot like 43 on the front(I may have been drinking a lot, I was with a buddy that doesn't really play) his cousin who I just met already commented on me "playing blades" and the shaky front 9 was good for some jokes as well. On the back I was 1 over until pulling my approach to 18 in the water, but on that 9 I had 5 straight holes with no more than 15 feet for birdie, and a handful inside 10 ft. I of course wasn't putting well(beer is bad for putting) and only made 1, but the cousin (who was also a single digit and I was small betting with) looked at my cart at some point on that nine and said "ok,ok, I apologize for making fun of you for playing those damn things, I think I jinxed myself, now just play like you did on the front". I just never have stretches like that with my cbs, but it happens with blades. And to the counterpoint of how my front could have been a 40 with cbs, I definitely have bad scoring days with cbs as well, so the way I see it is with cbs and blades the floor is the same for me score wise, but my ceiling is higher with blades. Again, this is just my experience.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1417618172' post='10535981']
So. Guys. I have eyed a set that could serve as a pretty cool blade test set. Huge Price reduction and I can get them almost with the right shaft weight whic is almost impossible in the used market I have found a few sets of used blades with "my" shaft but the price is almost the same as these new ones.

You like?
...
[/quote]
vaterman that is a smooth and sleek looking set. Beautiful onset and topline!

[Bigmean]

Aston Martin???? They look cool, but who makes them? The car company? Hahahaha

Vegas are a hard sell as they have no real name power and small group that desires them, less than $600 is no red flag, I got mine in really playable shap for $255, but they are a model behind those, so, seems legit to me!

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='shooterMcGee' timestamp='1417620914' post='10536157']
Question! There's a guy selling Vega vm-01 blades 4-pw brand new for less than $600 beans. Does this sound weird to anyone?
[/quote]

What little I know, it does sound a little weird.

Selling them on BST, or on ebay?

[NRJyzr]

Vaterman, those look great. But I'm having James Bond flashbacks. When did Aston Martin get involved making golf clubs?

[cb24]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1417648123' post='10538915']
Congrats on some sweet new to you clubs! Interesting you said accurate.

One thing I have found with my blades vs cbs is that for whatever reason, I seem to have a tighter dispersion with blades. Distance is a lot of it, and I am not sure if there is any science behind a blade holding a line better, but if I am on with my titliests cbs, I am hitting lots of greens, if I am on with blades, I am throwing up balls that flag hunt.

I played a round this summer, shot like 43 on the front(I may have been drinking a lot, I was with a buddy that doesn't really play) his cousin who I just met already commented on me "playing blades" and the shaky front 9 was good for some jokes as well. On the back I was 1 over until pulling my approach to 18 in the water, but on that 9 I had 5 straight holes with no more than 15 feet for birdie, and a handful inside 10 ft. I of course wasn't putting well(beer is bad for putting) and only made 1, but the cousin (who was also a single digit and I was small betting with) looked at my cart at some point on that nine and said "ok,ok, I apologize for making fun of you for playing those damn things, I think I jinxed myself, now just play like you did on the front". I just never have stretches like that with my cbs, but it happens with blades. And to the counterpoint of how my front could have been a 40 with cbs, I definitely have bad scoring days with cbs as well, so the way I see it is with cbs and blades the floor is the same for me score wise, but my ceiling is higher with blades. Again, this is just my experience.
[/quote]

Whether it's in our heads or not, the same thing happens with me. When I am on I just have utmost confidence that the blade will give me a great result with a good swing.

[vaterman]

Naaah. Aston Martin the car producer (which I think is really BMW now) didn't make those. It is almost impossible to get any info on this. But the Company that builds them is called MDGolf which is pretty big in EU. Most known for budget Clubs but in good quality. I think at some point they wanted to make a prestigious set and made a deal with Aston Martin to market them as such I guess to add exclusivity. From a selling viewpoint probably not a great idea. The sets offered are sell-outs at half the price.

It does say that they are forged in Japan out of 1020 carbon steel so I figure they may actually be good clubs. The odd brand doesn’t affect the playability. As a set where I can do better blade experiments because I can get shafts that suits me OK I just think they could be fine. Alternatives with the similar shafts in the used market is only a bit cheaper.

So as a next step in my blade evolution I figured give them a try.

[Bigmean]

Look, at a certain point, golf becomes very mental. I have said and I believe if you are consistantly shooting 85 or under, the mental game starts to become more present and at a pro level it is in all reality 95% of their game. Using that 85 benchmark, at that point I do believe you can play what irons you want and your scores are more dependent on other things like tee, putting and chipping consistency. While I do feel using blades to practice, or having an older set to play around with can be beneficial to higher caps, I have not advocated it on this thread, but I do firmly believe that this "good enough to play blades" nonsense is score nullified if you are a 12 or under. Many people feel better using cbs at scratch level etc, but that is the same mental confidence that someone using blades gets if their mindset is that blades allow them the best chance to go low and it is horses for courses at that point. The notion that you should be a 5 or lower to play blades is absurd. As someone that has played 2 sets for years(blade and cb) I can tell you that I feel I can play my worst golf with either, but my best golf with blades, but the reality bottom line is I am playing the swing I brought that day, clubs be damned.

On another note, I may have got a 2-pw set of Mac vfoil 1025m irons with velvet full cords and pured Dgs shafts in "mint" condition for $240.....I don't have them yet, and don't want to jinx it, but I think I did really good and this set is on my list of sets I want in my collection. Stalking eBay pays with patience (auction ended at 11:00 on a weekday, it came down to me and one other bidder) and I am sure the vega set shooter is looking at is fine. If you lock I to a set and spend months waiting and being disciplined to not overpay or overbid, you can buy irons at prices you can at least break even on if you go to sell in a few years.

[Bigmean]

Ohhh, my bad shooter, I just realized you said "new"......that is a red flag homie. I haven't seen Vegas for less than $850ish 5-pw new..........and I looked a lot when hunting for the set I wound up getting. Something appears to be up. If you want, private message me the link to them and I will check it out for you and give an opinion, I have a lot of experience "shopping" clubs......

[Exactice808]

STUPID BLADES!!!!! HAhahaah just kidding.... but here is a serious thought to the Blade lovers and non Lovers.....

So have been lazy to switch out bags latley, you all know I alternate between my Nikes and my Mizuno's pretty frequently. Any ways I think I played about 10 rounds with just the mizuno's lately (JPX Pro - GI's) so Yestreday, I decided to take out the Nike's (03 Forged) No range time nothing just switched out the bags threw the driver, 3 wood and putter in the bag and went to play.

Ok so here is something funny.... the last 10 rounds with the Mizuno's, Highs -88, Lows- 82....Average 84.

Took the Nike's out, I shot a 99..... Yes a 99,

Now this is the questions..... Do I blame the Nikes for this? Do I blame some outside entities for this? Or can it be true that the Blades ruined my score?

Now couple things in the round that I can tell you. I hit 1 OB and 1 water with my driver, 1 OB and 1 water with my 3 Wood, OB with a Sandwedge. Now 2 tee boxes I teed off with the Iron I shanked 1 and I hosel hooked the next, but other than that, hitting iron from the fairway was actually more dead on. In all that mess I still made 1 birdie too.

So all around just horrible horrible round. So is the blades to blame? I think not...I think it was just an overall bad day. You cant blame the clubs...you have to blame the person swinging it. As an 11.2 shooting a 99..... its more than just the irons that messed up the round....it was the thing between the ears.....

So if you want to debate the iron, you really got to ask yourself, is it the Iron that makes the difference or the guy swinging it!

[bushy007]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1417587345' post='10535137']Hey bushy007 what did you play before the mp33s?[/quote]

Just ditched the Covert Forged, before that I played VR PRO Combos>>Taylormade TP MB (2011)>>TW Forged>>Taylormade 540XD and before that was a Slazenger blade my dad gave me when I was 12ish.

[bushy007]

First round with the MP33's is in the bank, I'm 100% in love. In hindsight chasing "forgiveness" had been a mistake I probably won't make again.

Wether it be wide sole, offset, feel, sound I'm not sure... Could be anything but my game definitely suffered going away from what had always worked for me. Maybe this time I can listen to myself.

[cb24]

Well still loving the blades:). My game continues to get honed in and I really feel confident with the blades. As I have said many times before, good luck to all on your club search

[Geohans]

Assuming a good understanding of the dynamics of the golf swing at impact:

Feel teaches.

It teaches on several levels: feedback in your hands, feedback in what you see (is it what you imagined?), and the incredibly positive sensation of a well struck shot.

No amount of engineering can replace what feel teaches you.

Whether blades will work for you will depend on what kind of learner you are. Rapped on the knuckles with a ruler? Modern artificially propped up "self-esteem" building? Check the results. SAT Score.

There is only one wrong voice on this forum: the voice that says it's not possible for someone to play better with a club that has been deemed by expensive marketing as "unforgiving."

[Exactice808]

Hey Gang, I have a "Blades" questions...... sorta.....


Ok I am still switching between clubs and I dont really care what others thing.... but I do have a questions about impact and the cause....

My Mizuno's I am really comfortable with, I hit the "center" about 9/10 times.... not sweet spot but pretty much the middle......

Now I switch to the Nike Blades and I have noticed I have been hitting them more out to the toe than anything... Center but toe center...... Is there a cause of the clubs to do this? Or is it just me?

Now again they are 2 different setups JPX825 pro with Dynalite S300 and Nike 03 Forged DGX100 Lofts are 1 degree different, lies are the same.... but again shafts are different, would this cause me to hit more on the toe due to the weight or the flex?

[thug the bunny]

Hello, anyone here? So is this thread a lifeless corpse now? What a shame. And it wasn't even a 'blades vs GI' thread but it still got trolled into oblivion. C'est le guerre....

[Forged4ever]

[quote name='Chuck_22046' timestamp='1417177534' post='10513267']
I just tried an interesting experiment....

I went back and read the first post. And a few thoughts came to me as I did:

1) He played the AP2's for a year...fully committed to them.
2) His game did not improve (for him)
3) His distance control and workability suffered using the AP2's
4) Didn't judge anyone...simply said "good luck to all" and affirmed to himself that he preferred to play blades.
5) Stated that you shouldn't believe what everyone says....but rather should try things out for yourself.

Nofe: Reader's Digest version...but the important points I took away from the post.

No flaming, no judgement, no biting scratching, kicking punching. No users were harmed, insulted, belittled or demeaned in his original post. But....(and this is the key). There was nothing which I could describe as "debate" or even invitation to debate.

It was just "hey...I did this, it didn't work...so I went back to blades".

When this thread focuses on the intent of the original post it's interesting, fun and (to me) educational. When we start waving our hands in the air with our hair on fire trying to convince each other that one way is "better" than the other way....well, it doesn't work out so well. Not to rub anyone's nose in board rules (ok...yeah I am rubbing noses in the rules here...) We can disagree without being personal about it.

[color=#ff0000][b]An opinion doesn't suddenly carry more weight when it's framed in the form of an insult. A point is not suddenly more valid or clear because it tears someone else down[/b][/color].

Let's rise above all the crap...


To the OP's original point I pose a question:

Have you used CB or GI irons....and switched back or into a blade/muscle back iron and enjoyed an improvement your quality of play or enjoyment of the game?
[/quote]WoW!!

I just read this thread from CB's initial post to his last, right above me, and let me say up front, great posts CB & you are a Class Act and Gentleman, as is Chuck, and that is the reason that I responded to his post. I, for the life of me cannot understand what it is about Blades/CB's(GI) that bring the idiots out to play. Seriously, other than me asking someone how they like their new irons, whatever they may be, I have never gotten into a discussion on WHY they play that iron. Not a single discussion.

Now I am working off of an assumption here, and yea, I know what they say about assumptions , however I know that I play the irons/clubs that I do because when I stand over them in address, they give me THE most confidence that I could have, to the point that I don't even really see the club, that I will execute the shot at hand with them.

Do I always?

Of course not, however it is NEVER because of that club. The swing, performance and outcome is on me.

The fact that once I determine the appropriate club for my next shot and pull it, that that is the last time that I think about that club, tells me that I have the perfect clubs for me, whatever they may be.

So, I'm assuming that all serious Players think as I do, since I was taught this game by serious Players and this is how they thought.

It's that Indian/Arrow thing

Now I understand that this is a golf forum, that it is comprised of members who run the gamut, and to some, possibly many(no wonder 98%+ don't break 100 playin it down & out, lol), an iron is much more than that and WHY one plays it is extremely important. However, to get to the point where one uses sarcastic icons or language, to the personal insults, is what really blows my mind.

Look, this game is mental. For those Players out there, you know exactly what I am saying-

They say 90%, though I think it's more.

Once you get a consistent, reproducible swing, it's 90%+.

And I understand that to some, to look down and see a thick(er) top line is disturbing. It is for me and this is on me, not the iron. For 47 years I have looked down at a certain top line, and that is what is burned into my mind's eye, to the point that I don't even see that top line when I address a ball with my 68s or Staff 59s.

However, I posted on another board of a bet that I made one day with my best Friend Dave, whom I've spoken of here, after a round and a few beers, lol. He had gone from the 710MBs to the RBZs(he's a -3, though played in college and was as low as +3.4) and was chirpin about em and so we swapped irons(not wedges), grabbed a cart and went out and played.

I had a 72(Par 70) the earlier swat(Dave didn't play). Was hitting the ball well but really made no putts. Not being sarcastic but it was basically hit the green in reg, two putt and go. I had two bogies and the rest pars.

Well, the first hole I normally take a dr-5i, so I figured that I'd pull a 6i based off of my drive. In the address position, and this was the first time that I looked down at the RBZs as we just swapped clubs on the tee and hit, and for the first time in Lord knows how long, I thought, "holy f***, is that thick, and that offset, lol."

As I do not take practice swings so that was literally the first time I had seen the iron in address, I stepped off and turned and took the address position a few times, then I stepped in and swung. My 3-4yd draw was 10-15yds and the ball took off like a rocket, LMAO, flying the green and hitting about half way up a pine on the back left side.'dave was laughin his a** off.

Long Story short, I had a 79, he had a 78, and plus the two a side that I had to give him, he kicked my a**, lol.

These irons flew however too much top line and too much off set however the most disturbing thing to me was the inconsistency in the distance control. LMAO, I hit a 7i from 180yds(I normally took my 68/59s from 173yds) to 195, and I've not that kind of swinger nor have I ever hit a 7i 190yds, I don't think that I've ever hit one 180yds, at least not intentionally or well, lol.

Now I understand that those particular irons may not be the barometer, however discounting the ball's reaction off of the face, the top line and off set is what it is on this class of iron.

So, I saw for the first time just how much of a mental basket case that I was, because, so my barometer for an iron is rather simple-

If I "see" that iron in address, it's not the iron for me.

Great posts and thread CB!!

It's a damn shame that we can't carry ourselves as adults and Gentlemen

Stay Well My Friend & enjoy your blades

Fairways & Greens 4ever,
Richard

[BIG STU]

Well put as SOP for you RP. I ran into some of the same problems you were referring to when switching to cavity backs from blades. First thing I tried was the Infiniti 302s I had absolutely no distance control or workability with them absolutely no feel. Now I could kill them on distance they were probably 15 yds longer for me. The next thing we tried was the Infiniti Assures cavity backs with the welded face same deal on all fronts and the face was very hot the ball screamed off them too much for me. Well my buddy tries the TS-10s and wola! They are forged cavity back blades and I can do what I need to. Actually the workability and feel was like my beloved MP-33s that I wore out. It goes to show for me anyhow that you can work some CB irons and some you cant. I have a friend of mine that has those rocketblade irons and he hits them good they work for him. He wanted me to hit his 5 iron one day. I knew it did not have nearly enough shaft for me because it was senior flex graphite. First shot I was trying to hold it off so much I topped it. I tried a second and decided not to try to hold it off. It came off very hot and a screaming rope hook probably the screamingest rope hook I ever hit. Just goes to show why they make different clubs and shafts. Like Sly sang in the old days "different strokes for different folks" Like you I never debate one's equipment choice just because it does not work for me. Like I said yep I have forged cavity backs and I can work them as good as any blade I ever had but is just me

[BigBob]

A very interesting thread. I started with blades way back when then went Ping i2's then i3's (13 years I had the i3's) Then R9's and now have MP 58's as a back up set and TM MB as my main set. The ball striking is chalk and cheese and very satisfying. There is no feel ike it for me, now I'm going to say this and will expect some flaming but, if you strike most of you iron shots in the centre of the club go try a blade,my theory is as the head is smaller you will hit more shots off the sweet spot, and therefore get that rewarding feeling more often.

[WouldRatherBePlaying]

I may have neutered myself somewhat by giving up a stick shift for an automatic....but the blades are staying in the bag.