The Best Player Who's Been Forgotten....

[High gentle draw]

I'll add Calvin Peete to the discussion. Players champion and two time Ryder cupper. Led the tour in driving accuracy for 10 years. He didn't even take up golf until later in life. He was an amazing ball striker despite having a permanently damaged left arm. I love his swing too.

[Smash Factors]

Masashi "Jumbo" Ozaki anyone?

 

Didn't play on the PGA tour, but did take 94 wins on the Japan Tour. Three top 10's in majors.

[Forged4ever]

Wow ... Thank you so much Richard and Maddie. Great stuff. I'd reckon the CA paper was from Apple Valley where Lloyd is a legend. I'm sure you know, he spent the last 18 years of his life posted up here in his home off of the 18th hole, a home that he designed. Further to your point about Sam Snead winning soon after he was discharged because of a back injury, I recently read the book, "When the War Played Through" by John Strege and he takes quite a few shots at Hogan and Snead for their role in the war. Just a few clever quotes by Strege, --

 

“A mental lapse on lapse on the golf course might result in a bogey. A similar lapse in a dogfight might result in a bogey shooting you out of the sky. It was far more likely the reason for Snead remaining in Norfolk was to teach golf and to play golf with his superior officers.”

Hogan was destined to spend much of his military career serving his country in eighteen hole stretches.”

“So it was two of golf’s leading lights seemed destined to contribute little more than entertainment for military brass with the authority to bask in their reflected glory”

 

Thanks again -- I'm just a young guy, doing a story on Tam O'Shanter, but since I've learned Lloyd was the playing professional hired by George May, I've taken quite the interest in him. I've purchased all of his instructional books just to learn what his voice might have "sounded" like, and now the story has become 1/3 about Mangrum, 1/3 about May and 1/3 about what Tam was and what it has become. One of the books has an aerial of Tam (which is now 9 holes) so that turned out to be very helpful for the story. Any other info, anecdotes on Mangrum that you can't read by just searching around would be awesome. Also, you might want to consider George S. May as one of your bad-asses if you haven't already ... The guy didn't play the game, but did so much for the game, is another forgotten man of golf, and is certainly a badass! I have a text version of the 1955 SI article on May if you need it (I transcribed it with a magnifying glass). If I understood correctly, you are writing a book about golf-centric bad-asses. Sounds awesome. Thanks!

Hey GB, I hope that you're well :)

 

Apologies for the delay in responding as it's been a long week.

 

Yes, I am very familiar with George S. May, both as an Incredible Benefactor of the Game and as a Business Man.

 

Following Grad School, I took a position with The Boston Consulting Group, an old school Strategy house.

 

Us and McKinsey ruled the roost, lol.

 

Anyhoo, though you will never ever ever get anyone from either BCG or McKinsey to admit it, our Client Strategic Analysis Template was directly taken from Mr. May's Template(s).

 

What we did with Hundred of Million dollar through the billion dollar corporations and Health Systems, George May did for the Mom & Pop up to $6-8 Mill businesses.

 

He was an incredible visionary though he doesn't get the credit that he deserves within the Corporate Strategy market place.

 

His gifts to the Game basically not only helped it to thrive, though through some lean years, to survive.

 

As Boogie would Say, He's the Man, lol

 

Thanks again for taking the time to read and respond :)

 

Have a great holiday weekend!!

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friend,

Richard

[2putttom]

Richard, I kid you not...when I read the thread title, I was already thinking Mangrum before I clicked in.

I was thinking that guy that used to post on here. Jones Scott?

Talk about someone who got the short end of the stick~

 

Boy did Jonesy get screwed!

 

All the kid wanted was a chance

 

6250yds/Par 68 from the tips-

 

64.8/118

 

Ya gotta start somewhere.....

 

One night after I was Talkin to him about his PSR, visualizatiin, yada yada yada, and he responds by askin me about visualization and did I ever use it with women, and after I finished LMAO, I responded and it said he was banned, lol

 

Like a shooting star, he flashed before us and was gone far too soon-

 

And yea, if you're reading any of this Bro, visualization works in a social situation!!

 

Larry Nelson

Billy Casper

Jonesy

Lloyd Mamgrum

 

Yep, the list goes on :)

 

Stay well BroMeisters!!

 

My Best,

RP

I thought ol jonesy was a Columbian drug dealer who was using pro status as a cover.

[Jwin323]

I'll add Calvin Peete to the discussion. Players champion and two time Ryder cupper. Led the tour in driving accuracy for 10 years. He didn't even take up golf until later in life. He was an amazing ball striker despite having a permanently damaged left arm. I love his swing too.

 

Best golfer with a crooked arm----Calvin Peete

Best golfer with a crooked head---Tom Weiskopf

[tannyhoban]

Great thread. Tommy Armour seems to be all but forgotten, though his namesake clubs kept his sig out front. And if I had to put money on one player for any given match, pretty sure I'd pick Sam Snead. So great and yet somewhat lost to time.

[Forged4ever]

Great thread. Tommy Armour seems to be all but forgotten, though his namesake clubs kept his sig out front. And if I had to put money on one player for any given match, pretty sure I'd pick Sam Snead. So great and yet somewhat lost to time.

I did a thread like this on Tommy Armour as he was my Teacher's Teacher, Mentor & Friend, as he was close to Sam also.

 

Regarding Sam, well, he's my All-Timer and it ain't close, lol.

 

He was the frickin Best!!

 

Thanks for dropping in :)

 

Have a nice holiday Bro!

 

All the Best,

Richard

[GolfAddictions]

Great story Richard. Thank you for sharing. I know it's not the 1st time and won't be the last I say that. As always great read.

[Mwscgolf]

Have to say that I'd never heard of this guy, but this is an AWESOME post. Thank you

[playa]

Masashi "Jumbo" Ozaki anyone?

 

Didn't play on the PGA tour, but did take 94 wins on the Japan Tour. Three top 10's in majors.

Dont think he won anything outside Japan. Must have found it harder to win overseas, what with the pesky rules and all, and without the gallery kicking his ball back on the fairway or treading down other balls in the rough.

[Hankshank]

Curtis Strange was like the best golfer in the world a few years after I took up golf in the 80's. But then all of a sudden, he dissapeared. Doesn't play Champions tour either.

[Scooterboy59]

Billy Casper was great and never gets the credit he deserves. You never hear anything about him. 69 wins and 3 majors. Pretty good numbers.

[playa]

Billy Casper was great and never gets the credit he deserves. You never hear anything about him. 69 wins and 3 majors. Pretty good numbers.

One of the unheralded greats of the game for sure. An all time great and an even greater putter. 51 PGA wins. No current player outside Tiger will get near that record. The current big three would be happy with half that many.

[Forged4ever]

Curtis Strange was like the best golfer in the world a few years after I took up golf in the 80's. But then all of a sudden, he dissapeared. Doesn't play Champions tour either.

I really like Curtis and spoke to my encounter with him in another thread however He's also a Class act. After Playing in a 36 hole Non-Official event in Pgh, he was speaking to my Mother, a 3-time breast cancer survivor, and either his wife or his mother is a survivor, I forget which, however they sat together at the dinner, they stay in touch to this day and he had donated gear to the annual Breast Cancer Charity Black Tie event/Auction, including the 5 & 7i from his second Open.

 

He was also a 5-Time Ryder Cupper so he Played at a world class level for over a decade, not just a two year period as some insinuate.

 

And yes, I know all the stories of him being a jerk however he treated my Mother like Platinum and has two fans for life, haha.

 

Funny story- He apparently was "Classic Curtis" in an on-course situation earlier in the day and Fuzzy even busted his stones over his behavior at the time and this guy was retelling it at dinner and my Mother must have overheard while she was up at the bar and I look over and I see my 4'11" Mother pointing up at a guy about my height(6'2") and she wasn't happy. I walk over and she's telling him that he doesn't know Curtis, Curtis is a great guy, yada yada, yada and he looks at me and nicely says, "I didn't mean to upset your wife, I just don't like Curtis." I smiled, said I understood and that she was my Mother, put my arm around my Mother's shoulders and said, "Let's go get a drink Tiger." My Mom's normally a passive little thing, hahaha.

 

Thanks for responding :)

 

My Best,

Richard

[mocokid]

just read the Lloyd Mangrum story, and had heard of his WW2 experience. However, did not know he was 30 year old when he served the USA, WOW. Love that aggressive right side action through impact!!

[nikegal]

Yes, Lloyd was one of Sam's closest friends on Tour and a lot of guys were very tentative around him because he could go from joking and jovial to "in your face" in the flick of a switch. Sam and Pete attributed it to what he experienced and witnessed during his time in Europe in WWII. He gave Sam his bag tag from the 1946 US Open, which he won in a play-off. Sam carried it on his bag through his last round. Mr. Mangrum was a special Player and a very special man. Apologies if Richard or one of you posted this video. Have a nice day guys :) Madison

 

[Sean2]

Maybe he was already mentioned, but I would go with Billy Casper.

[Soloman1]

And how about old what's his name?

[Forged4ever]

Maybe he was already mentioned, but I would go with Billy Casper.

Me too Bro?

 

This was a tip of the hat to the older Pros who paved the way for Billy, Jack, Arnold, et al.

 

Sam spoke extremely highly of him as did Pete and then I read about him and it was like, "as Great of a Player as he was, he was a far Greater Warrior."

 

You as a Vet know that any one of these is something to be extremely proud of however his performance is friggin sick, and the fact that he survived them all to tell the stories is insane.....

 

~ 2 Purple Hearts

~ 2 Silver Stars

~ 2 Bronze Stars

 

Outside of the "Big 3(Byron, Sam & Hogan)"@ that we hear about from the early years, Lloyd had an enviable record for sure.

 

~ His 64 in the 1940 Masters stood as the lowest round shot for 46 years

~ His record of .750 across 4 Ryder Cups is still the highest win percentage in 4 or more Cups(6-2 in Teams & 3-1 in singles)

~ Only 12 men in the history of the PGA have more victories than Lloyd(36)

 

Also, he was involved in one of the most historic photos ever taken as he was Hogan's opponent in the Playoff at Merion when Hogan nailed that 1i.

 

So while he was no Billy Casper, I like that he was a well rounded individual~

 

He could use a 1i to knock down a pin or to plant upside someone's head?

 

I hope that you're well??

 

All the Best,

Richard

[Sean2]

Richard, I am very happy to hear you are a free man! I hope you stay that way. :-)

 

Best record I've seen so far on this forum:

 

~ 2 Purple Hearts

~ 2 Silver Stars

~ 2 Bronze Stars

[nikegal]

Though Richard told the story of Pete Brown Playing in the WVa Open and none of the Class A's wanted to be in his group due to the death threats and Pete entering and driving down and he and Sam Played with Pete with no incident though there was more to the story that Richard did not mention. When Sam and Lloyd were talking and Sam mentioned that he was Playing in his state Open and he told Lloyd about the death threats, the fact that none of the Pros wanted to Play in Pete's group and that Pete was driving down to round out the group and Lloyd was quiet for a minute then asked Sam for the WVGA telephone number and he called and entered. When Sam told him that that was very kind but Pete would be fine with the Snead boys around, Lloyd said that he knew that but that he did not fight, lose good friends and "brothers," and dodged death many times in the war, to come home and have something like this ocur in this country.

 

Sam said great, the more the merrier and though they Played threesomes, they would surely make an exception and they could Play as a foursome. Lloyd said no, that if indeed someone did try to do something such as fire a gun at them, that they should not all be in the same group together. He told Sam to see to it that Lloyd's group was the group behind Sam's. And so it was and all four days, regardless of the scoreboard and the pairings, Lloyd was in the group behind Sam's and as an aside, both Lloyd and Sam had pistols in their bags. Lloyd Mangrum was a very special man, and he was rock star good looking, hahaha. Nitram has another Lloyd Mangrum story along with some amazing stories about another great individual who drew the short end of the stick because of his race but he never lowered himself to the level of the gutter trash who mistreated him. Take care guys :) Madison

[ZAP]

Glad this thread popped back up. My soon to be 15 yo son has taken to golf a bit. I had him read that first post and let's just say he was impressed.

[rangersgoalie]

At 54,with a mom, dad, grandfather (and his three brothers) all golf professionals, I got to hear a lot

About the old guys, but didn't hear much about Loyd, other that he was easily the toughest SOB

Out there

[KYMAR]

I hate to sound like, you know, a nice person here but this thread is a treat and a testament to how lucky we are to have Richard and Maddie as contributors.

 

Maddie your last post re Pete Brown and how the Sneads and Mr. Mangrum handled the death threat situation is an incredible look into who these guys were.

 

I love how Richard lays the groundwork for a story, then Maddie steps in, expounds on the details, but more importantly, brings the dirt.

 

Thank you guys for this thread. I will never get bored with the stories you share here. Keep them coming.

 

 

(I now return to my regularly scheduled evil clown persona)

 

Also, hi Ava! It's me, kyman! ;)

[bladehunter]

Curtis Strange was like the best golfer in the world a few years after I took up golf in the 80's. But then all of a sudden, he dissapeared. Doesn't play Champions tour either.

 

 

he died with the Tiger interview of around 1996.....

[playa]

Curtis Strange was like the best golfer in the world a few years after I took up golf in the 80's. But then all of a sudden, he dissapeared. Doesn't play Champions tour either.

I really like Curtis and spoke to my encounter with him in another thread however He's also a Class act. After Playing in a 36 hole Non-Official event in Pgh, he was speaking to my Mother, a 3-time breast cancer survivor, and either his wife or his mother is a survivor, I forget which, however they sat together at the dinner, they stay in touch to this day and he had donated gear to the annual Breast Cancer Charity Black Tie event/Auction, including the 5 & 7i from his second Open.

 

He was also a 5-Time Ryder Cupper so he Played at a world class level for over a decade, not just a two year period as some insinuate.

 

And yes, I know all the stories of him being a jerk however he treated my Mother like Platinum and has two fans for life, haha.

 

Funny story- He apparently was "Classic Curtis" in an on-course situation earlier in the day and Fuzzy even busted his stones over his behavior at the time and this guy was retelling it at dinner and my Mother must have overheard while she was up at the bar and I look over and I see my 4'11" Mother pointing up at a guy about my height(6'2") and she wasn't happy. I walk over and she's telling him that he doesn't know Curtis, Curtis is a great guy, yada yada, yada and he looks at me and nicely says, "I didn't mean to upset your wife, I just don't like Curtis." I smiled, said I understood and that she was my Mother, put my arm around my Mother's shoulders and said, "Let's go get a drink Tiger." My Mom's normally a passive little thing, hahaha.

 

Thanks for responding :)

 

My Best,

Richard

Strange is another American superstar who cut his teeth on the Aussie tour. Like Payne Stewart after him, Strange spent many off seasons out here playing our summer events. We don't get as many Americans out here as we used to, but Spieth has revived the trend a little playing our last couple Opens, and Sneddeker nearly won one a few years back.

[Frankensteins Monster]

Casper. Or Cantlay. I'll go with Cantlay.

[Judge440]

Is Cantlay out on medical?

[EKELLY]

Billy Casper was great and never gets the credit he deserves. You never hear anything about him. 69 wins and 3 majors. Pretty good numbers.

One of the unheralded greats of the game for sure. An all time great and an even greater putter. 51 PGA wins. No current player outside Tiger will get near that record. The current big three would be happy with half that many.

I remember Johnny Miller saying there really could have been a "Big 4", with Casper. And I did read Casper said he was grateful he wasn't included.......

[Forged4ever]

Billy Casper was great and never gets the credit he deserves. You never hear anything about him. 69 wins and 3 majors. Pretty good numbers.

One of the unheralded greats of the game for sure. An all time great and an even greater putter. 51 PGA wins. No current player outside Tiger will get near that record. The current big three would be happy with half that many.

I remember Johnny Miller saying there really could have been a "Big 4", with Casper. And I did read Casper said he was grateful he wasn't included.......

He was also a Great Father and a Gentleman's Gentleman!

 

He and his wife, Shirley, had three children when docs told her that she was unable to have any more-

 

Their response?

 

They adopted SIX more children!!

 

The funny thing?

 

Shirley Casper would go on to have two more children??

 

Mr. Palmer said that the worst part of losing at Olympic was that he lost to "the nicest guy in the world." He said that he was angry, hurt and stunned but he couldn't help but be happy for Billy Casper because he was such a Gentleman and while many say that Arnold Palmer lost that Open, he said that Billy Casper won it.

 

And for those that chirp, "he'll, what's he gonna say," before ya do go back and read about Mr. Casper's Play that week-

 

He Played 90 holes of spectacular golf-

 

There were over 600 rounds of golf Played that week-

 

14 of em were in the 60's-

 

Billy Casper had four of them-

 

The Boir could Play!!

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳

RP