It just me or are a lot of pros switching to Nippon Iron Shafts?

[swizbeatz]

[quote name='golflefty' timestamp='1429628204' post='11406935']
[quote name='jonn443' timestamp='1429627887' post='11406901']
I was considering 120S and 125S. In several PMs Mark recommended since I was a s300 player that I look into the 125S and that the 120S (not x) would be similar to a dg s200 (or SS s300) or a px 5.0. Now I'm not a px player but a buddy of mine uses 6.0 and says that they are equivalent to a hard stepped S300 but not quite a x100.So,I may be wrong but it would only make sense that the 6.5 would be similar to a x100, which in that case would be modus 130S range (maybe even 125X).

Now these are educated assumptions. .lol..so I'll let the gurus take it from here...Mark?
[/quote]

Flex wise, sounds about right, but I'm not so sure on playing characteristics based on previous posts in this thread.
[/quote]

Exactly

[markheardjr]

[quote name='jonn443' timestamp='1429627887' post='11406901']
I was considering 120S and 125S. In several PMs Mark recommended since I was a s300 player that I look into the 125S and that the 120S (not x) would be similar to a dg s200 (or SS s300) or a px 5.0. Now I'm not a px player but a buddy of mine uses 6.0 and says that they are equivalent to a hard stepped S300 but not quite a x100.So,I may be wrong but it would only make sense that the 6.5 would be similar to a x100, which in that case would be modus 130S range (maybe even 125X).

Now these are educated assumptions. .lol..so I'll let the gurus take it from here...Mark?
[/quote]
I'm not sure what all that is about but 125 plays true to flex for DG. Maybe, just maybe 1/4 flex soft because of the smoother feel. X100 = 120TX = 130S = 125X simply for flex/feel sake. How they pay is completely different. I have a chart, maybe on page 7 or 11 or somewhere, that has my own relation table for DG, PX, Nippon & KBS.

Re-hashing again...
120 will exacerbate the low launch balloon spin that DG already does. If you're a sweeper with low spin already, 120 might be ok. Go up a flex, X100 - 120TX, S400 - 120X, S300 - 120X ssx1 or 120S hsx1.
130 is stout, launches high high high, but is low low spin. Good for folks with late releases that naturally trap the ball low and are ok with elevating their shots easier and want less spin. X100 - 130S, maybe hsx1, X300 - 130X, X700 - 130X hsx1, S400 - 130S straight in, S300 - 130S ssx1. But 130 is better for PX users. 7.0+ - 130x, 6.0 - 130S ssx1, 6.5 - 130 straight in, 5.5 - 130S soft-stepped once, 5.0 - 130R.
125 is almost identical to DG but it is a touch softer, I mean a smidge, and is infinitely smoother! I like to say 125 has DG performance with KBS feel. The shaft is mid-launch and mid-spin for me. Easy to manipulate trajectory, a jack-of-all-trades kind of shaft. Like a Aldila NV or Fuji 757 of the steel shaft world. Not as harsh or demanding as DGX100, plug n play with ease. X300-X700 users may want to try 125X hard-stepped once or twice. X100 users who want smoother feel and can manage a touch higher flight should go 125X straight in. S400 users should try 125S hard-stepped. S300 users should go 125S straight in.

[ryanandrew_golf]

Currently playing the KBS Tour 130 X. I like them but I would like a shaft that launched slightly flatter with the short irons and had a more stable feel in the long irons. Not necessarily looking for less spin however...
Of ALL the Nippon shafts which would/could give me that performance? If any.
I'm not familiar with Nippon shafts at all.

[markheardjr]

[quote name='ryanandrew_golf' timestamp='1429634075' post='11407839']
Currently playing the KBS Tour 130 X. I like them but I would like a shaft that launched slightly flatter with the short irons and had a more stable feel in the long irons. Not necessarily looking for less spin however...
Of ALL the Nippon shafts which would/could give me that performance? If any.
I'm not familiar with Nippon shafts at all.
[/quote]
I'd say 125X or if you're an early releaser that sweeps possibly 120X or 120TX.

[ryanandrew_golf]

[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1429636922' post='11408257']
[quote name='ryanandrew_golf' timestamp='1429634075' post='11407839']
Currently playing the KBS Tour 130 X. I like them but I would like a shaft that launched slightly flatter with the short irons and had a more stable feel in the long irons. Not necessarily looking for less spin however...
Of ALL the Nippon shafts which would/could give me that performance? If any.
I'm not familiar with Nippon shafts at all.
[/quote]
I'd say 125X or if you're an early releaser that sweeps possibly 120X or 120TX.
[/quote]

Thanks! What about the SPB's? There is a set at the shop where I work

[jonn443]

[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1429633683' post='11407773']
[quote name='jonn443' timestamp='1429627887' post='11406901']
I was considering 120S and 125S. In several PMs Mark recommended since I was a s300 player that I look into the 125S and that the 120S (not x) would be similar to a dg s200 (or SS s300) or a px 5.0. Now I'm not a px player but a buddy of mine uses 6.0 and says that they are equivalent to a hard stepped S300 but not quite a x100.So,I may be wrong but it would only make sense that the 6.5 would be similar to a x100, which in that case would be modus 130S range (maybe even 125X).

Now these are educated assumptions. .lol..so I'll let the gurus take it from here...Mark?
[/quote]
I'm not sure what all that is about but 125 plays true to flex for DG. Maybe, just maybe 1/4 flex soft because of the smoother feel. X100 = 120TX = 130S = 125X simply for flex/feel sake. How they pay is completely different. I have a chart, maybe on page 7 or 11 or somewhere, that has my own relation table for DG, PX, Nippon & KBS.

Re-hashing again...
120 will exacerbate the low launch balloon spin that DG already does. If you're a sweeper with low spin already, 120 might be ok. Go up a flex, X100 - 120TX, S400 - 120X, S300 - 120X ssx1 or 120S hsx1.
130 is stout, launches high high high, but is low low spin. Good for folks with late releases that naturally trap the ball low and are ok with elevating their shots easier and want less spin. X100 - 130S, maybe hsx1, X300 - 130X, X700 - 130X hsx1, S400 - 130S straight in, S300 - 130S ssx1. But 130 is better for PX users. 7.0+ - 130x, 6.0 - 130S ssx1, 6.5 - 130 straight in, 5.5 - 130S soft-stepped once, 5.0 - 130R.
125 is almost identical to DG but it is a touch softer, I mean a smidge, and is infinitely smoother! I like to say 125 has DG performance with KBS feel. The shaft is mid-launch and mid-spin for me. Easy to manipulate trajectory, a jack-of-all-trades kind of shaft. Like a Aldila NV or Fuji 757 of the steel shaft world. Not as harsh or demanding as DGX100, plug n play with ease. X300-X700 users may want to try 125X hard-stepped once or twice. X100 users who want smoother feel and can manage a touch higher flight should go 125X straight in. S400 users should try 125S hard-stepped. S300 users should go 125S straight in.
[/quote]

Thanks for the clarification Mark! So I was right in that the 6.5 would be in the range of the 130S and the x100 (actually 6.8 to be completely accurate). I hit the 125S again today and your spot on:DG weight with some serious smoothness and some kick for a slighter higher ball flight.

[markheardjr]

[quote name='ryanandrew_golf' timestamp='1429641908' post='11408943']
[quote name='markheardjr' timestamp='1429636922' post='11408257']
[quote name='ryanandrew_golf' timestamp='1429634075' post='11407839']
Currently playing the KBS Tour 130 X. I like them but I would like a shaft that launched slightly flatter with the short irons and had a more stable feel in the long irons. Not necessarily looking for less spin however...
Of ALL the Nippon shafts which would/could give me that performance? If any.
I'm not familiar with Nippon shafts at all.
[/quote]
I'd say 125X or if you're an early releaser that sweeps possibly 120X or 120TX.
[/quote]

Thanks! What about the SPB's? There is a set at the shop where I work
[/quote]
If you don't mind the heavier weight, which seems you don't with 130 KBS Tour, then sure. I'd try either SPB X soft-stepped or SPB S hard-stepped.

[Bamicus]

I play the DG s300, I'm a high ball hitter, could I play the modus 120 x ? Not sure of 6 iron ss. Driver ss is 104 and smooth swinger, have no problem getting ball in the air. Never played an x shaft though. I want to get the z 745's but can't find it in the modus 125 s. Thanks!

[markheardjr]

[quote name='Bamicus' timestamp='1429666761' post='11412051']
I play the DG s300, I'm a high ball hitter, could I play the modus 120 x ? Not sure of 6 iron ss. Driver ss is 104 and smooth swinger, have no problem getting ball in the air. Never played an x shaft though. I want to get the z 745's but can't find it in the modus 125 s. Thanks!
[/quote]
I would say yes, the 120X sounds like it could be a good fit for you. Modus125 S straight in also if you can find them or when they are available. Smoother swing with a non-aggressive move should find the 120X to launch lower and spin similar and possible ballspeed pick-up because it's lighter. Once you start going up the aggressive transition / release style swings the softer butt is going to start reacting differently. Smooth swinger, bit slower, yes, 120X. Should be equal to an S300.

[forefrazier]

Thinking of going with some Nippons for wedges and hard a lot of good things about WV's. As a taller player, all clubs are about +1" to maybe +1.25" in the wedges. Thinking the 115's might be best due to the extra length? Like to play a controlled lower flight into the greens and still have nice feel.

[Bamicus]

Hey Mark, Thanks for great advice! Just found out my SS with 6 iron is 79. Don't know if this would have anything to with what you said previously.

Thanks, Bamicus

[markheardjr]

[quote name='Bamicus' timestamp='1429728982' post='11417981']
Hey Mark, Thanks for great advice! Just found out my SS with 6 iron is 79. Don't know if this would have anything to with what you said previously.

Thanks, Bamicus
[/quote]
You could be on the cusp of 120S hardstepped, 120X soft-stepped, or 120X. Depends how you like to feel them. The softer butt makes them feel softer than they are, why most people find them to be a flex soft from what they expect to feel. Nippon would rather you play the flex you would with any other shaft and let the shaft do what it is supposed to do. It's just hard to get people to trust the shaft because of how soft it feels. But if Stenson is using X, you'd think a mid-swing speed amateur would be ok with S. However, most S300 players prefer the feel of the 120X.

[Bamicus]

Thanks again, I play the 588 mb's also.

[markheardjr]

[quote name='Bamicus' timestamp='1429730423' post='11418191']
Thanks again, I play the 588 mb's also.
[/quote]
Great heads. A little high launch for me. The CoG is super low in those blades, they are considered game improvement on the Maltby scale! haha. I find the 588 CB's launch lower but I tend to spray them a little more, worse dispersion.

[Frits]

Well, I read the whole thread and like what has been posted so far.
I had a fitting for new irons (P-9: Srixons 945, 8-5 Srixon 745 and a 545 4 iron). My current irons are Mizuno mp 37's with s300 shafts in it. I have hit a number of shafts on trackman, but unfortunately they did not have x stiff shafts. I tried the Modus 120 in s flex and liked the feel, but it gave me too much spin and wild dispersion. The Modus 130 however gave a tight dispersion and about the right amount of backspin (i had way too much spin with my current setup).

The trackman numbers for my swing where as follows: 96 mph for a normal swing 100 mph for a fast swing. I swing 3 degrees down and created healthy smash factors (many 1.4 or higher). The Mizuno shaft optimizer all give me 4 and 5's except for a realize of 8 (very early) at 98 mph. My fitter said that I have a late release (the swoosh test with the club upside down gave a swoosh at or after the ball according to him), so I probably have a small early release and a full release much later. The fitter said this was the shaft for me (although I did not try the x stiff) and told me the x stiff is too much shaft for anybody but Sergio anyway. Reading this thread, I hear that most pro's use an X and that a number of guys here also seem to benefit from them. The 130 in stiff feels very stable coming from s300's, but I do wonder if I would benefit from the X-flex 130.

My question is: Do you guys think I should definitely order the shafts in x? What would I gain by getting stiffer shafts and at what trade off?

[jay65]

[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429792207' post='11423585']
Well, I read the whole thread and like what has been posted so far.
I had a fitting for new irons (P-9: Srixons 945, 8-5 Srixon 745 and a 545 4 iron). My current irons are Mizuno mp 37's with s300 shafts in it. I have hit a number of shafts on trackman, but unfortunately they did not have x stiff shafts. I tried the Modus 120 in s flex and liked the feel, but it gave me too much spin and wild dispersion. The Modus 130 however gave a tight dispersion and about the right amount of backspin (i had way too much spin with my current setup).

The trackman numbers for my swing where as follows: 96 mph for a normal swing 100 mph for a fast swing. I swing 3 degrees down and created healthy smash factors (many 1.4 or higher). The Mizuno shaft optimizer all give me 4 and 5's except for a realize of 8 (very early) at 98 mph. My fitter said that I have a late release (the swoosh test with the club upside down gave a swoosh at or after the ball according to him), so I probably have a small early release and a full release much later. The fitter said this was the shaft for me (although I did not try the x stiff) and told me the x stiff is too much shaft for anybody but Sergio anyway. Reading this thread, I hear that most pro's use an X and that a number of guys here also seem to benefit from them. The 130 in stiff feels very stable coming from s300's, but I do wonder if I would benefit from the X-flex 130.

My question is: Do you guys think I should definitely order the shafts in x? What would I gain by getting stiffer shafts and at what trade off?
[/quote]

Were you happy, and getting an improvement with the 130S over S300? If the answer is yes, to both question, then go with the fitters recommendations, if not, then try the 130S hardstepped x1. Or 130X ssx1. But Mark on here will know better than I.

[Bamicus]

Hey Mark, I agree with you about the 588 heads. Have you tried the MP 4's?

[Frits]

Jay, thx for your quick response.

Yes, it feels like an improvement over my current clubs, but I guess that they never have been a great fit (bought them without trying since they where so cheap). I'm wonder if the x flex would be an even bigger improvement. I'm used to hitting softer flex shafts, but I noticed that going to an 7m3x black tie from my Kai'li 63s made me much more consistent of the tee. The problem is, where I live, there are almost no stores or fitters where you can hit these type of shafts in x flex. Therefore I hope you guys can ease my mind on this one.

[jay65]

[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429795331' post='11423973']
Jay, thx for your quick response.

Yes, it feels like an improvement over my current clubs, but I guess that they never have been a great fit (bought them without trying since they where so cheap). I'm wonder if the x flex would be an even bigger improvement. I'm used to hitting softer flex shafts, but I noticed that going to an 7m3x black tie from my Kai'li 63s made me much more consistent of the tee. The problem is, where I live, there are almost no stores or fitters where you can hit these type of shafts in x flex. Therefore I hope you guys can ease my mind on this one.
[/quote]

Mark on here is far better qualified than me to set your mind at rest either way on this one. He has a wealth of experience of Nippon shafts, and certainly knows his stuff. Look out for the guy with the Nippon Pro modus avatar on his profile, he is always around on this thread.

[golflefty]

[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429795331' post='11423973']
Jay, thx for your quick response.

Yes, it feels like an improvement over my current clubs, but I guess that they never have been a great fit (bought them without trying since they where so cheap). I'm wonder if the x flex would be an even bigger improvement. I'm used to hitting softer flex shafts, but I noticed that going to an 7m3x black tie from my Kai'li 63s made me much more consistent of the tee. The problem is, where I live, there are almost no stores or fitters where you can hit these type of shafts in x flex. Therefore I hope you guys can ease my mind on this one.
[/quote]

Personally, I'm more comfortable erring on the side of too stiff w/ driver rather than irons. With driver you can gain that greater consistency as you point out, risk losing ideal launch and spin numbers potentially resulting in less overall distance, but the negative impact to scores is less than with irons. I find the line to be much finer with irons, too soft of flex and consistency and control suffers, but too stiff and you can find yourself unable to hold greens with mid-long irons lacking the optimal spin and/or height.

If the 130s gave you good numbers and felt stable, they sound pretty promising to me and I'd be cautious about committing to a full set of 130x before trying. Could always look to buy a single shaft to try?

[golflefty]

[quote name='golflefty' timestamp='1429796807' post='11424133']
[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429795331' post='11423973']
Jay, thx for your quick response.

Yes, it feels like an improvement over my current clubs, but I guess that they never have been a great fit (bought them without trying since they where so cheap). I'm wonder if the x flex would be an even bigger improvement. I'm used to hitting softer flex shafts, but I noticed that going to an 7m3x black tie from my Kai'li 63s made me much more consistent of the tee. The problem is, where I live, there are almost no stores or fitters where you can hit these type of shafts in x flex. Therefore I hope you guys can ease my mind on this one.
[/quote]

Personally, I'm more comfortable erring on the side of too stiff w/ driver rather than irons. With driver you can gain that greater consistency as you point out, risk losing ideal launch and spin numbers potentially resulting in less overall distance, but the negative impact to scores is less than with irons. I find the line to be much finer with irons, too soft of flex and consistency and control suffers, but too stiff and you can find yourself unable to hold greens with mid-long irons lacking the optimal spin and/or height.

If the 130s gave you good numbers and felt stable, they sound pretty promising to me and I'd be cautious about committing to a full set of 130x before trying. Could always look to buy a single shaft to try?
[/quote]

And to agree with Jay's most recent comment, I can't speak to the stiffness of the 130x specifically, just voicing my thought process when making any shaft changes. Mark should be able to give you a much clearer picture of the 130s vs x specifically.

[Frits]

Well, maybe I should give Mark enough time to respond instead of spamming this thread. ?

Mark, would you be so kind to give your opinion?

One more thing,I forgot to say my spin with the 130s was 6650 at a launch angle of 14.5 degree (the fitter told me that my spin was a little higher then your average, but that this was ok at my ball speeds of 135).

[swizbeatz]

[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429797354' post='11424229']
Well, maybe I should give Mark enough time to respond instead of spamming this thread. ?

Mark, would you be so kind to give your opinion?

One more thing,I forgot to say my spin with the 130s was 6650 at a launch angle of 14.5 degree (the fitter told me that my spin was a little higher then your average, but that this was ok at my ball speeds of 135).
[/quote]

Was that 96-100 with a 6 iron?

[Frits]

Yes

[markheardjr]

[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429792207' post='11423585']
Well, I read the whole thread and like what has been posted so far.
I had a fitting for new irons (P-9: Srixons 945, 8-5 Srixon 745 and a 545 4 iron). My current irons are Mizuno mp 37's with s300 shafts in it. I have hit a number of shafts on trackman, but unfortunately they did not have x stiff shafts. I tried the Modus 120 in s flex and liked the feel, but it gave me too much spin and wild dispersion. The Modus 130 however gave a tight dispersion and about the right amount of backspin (i had way too much spin with my current setup).

The trackman numbers for my swing where as follows: 96 mph for a normal swing 100 mph for a fast swing. I swing 3 degrees down and created healthy smash factors (many 1.4 or higher). The Mizuno shaft optimizer all give me 4 and 5's except for a realize of 8 (very early) at 98 mph. My fitter said that I have a late release (the swoosh test with the club upside down gave a swoosh at or after the ball according to him), so I probably have a small early release and a full release much later. The fitter said this was the shaft for me (although I did not try the x stiff) and told me the x stiff is too much shaft for anybody but Sergio anyway. Reading this thread, I hear that most pro's use an X and that a number of guys here also seem to benefit from them. The 130 in stiff feels very stable coming from s300's, but I do wonder if I would benefit from the X-flex 130.

My question is: Do you guys think I should definitely order the shafts in x? What would I gain by getting stiffer shafts and at what trade off?
[/quote]
I know Sergio uses the 130X and a few PGA tour players use 130S. I have hit the 130X. My initial thoughts were they were too much. I did not hit them well, they were really stout and boardy feeling and in a set of Forged CB's. I hit them again, maybe 8 months after a initial first few rounds and found them not to be as stout as I remembered. Still a bit too much for me. I pick the ball thin a lot and they were just too stiff so the shock and vibration was really harsh. Then I built a set with a different head for nodoubles22 and his felt a lot better. I think his heads had a touch lower CoG and the combo worked better. They are still stout, no doubt, but not overly stiff. However I rarely go 100% on an iron, if I do I usually leave it open just a bit and hang it out to the right.

I say, if you have ever hit a PX 6.5 and thought "This is too soft" then maybe the 130X is ok, probably 130X soft-stepped is better. If you hit PX 6.5 and thought it was perfect, then 130S hard-stepped. If you hit PX6.5 and thought it was too stiff, then 130S straight in. If you hit PX 7.0 and liked the stiffness, then 130X straight in. I don't know ANYONE that needs 130X hard-stepped. Maybe Zuback or Sadlowski?

[Frits]

Thank you very much for your reply. 130 s hard-stepped it is! I'll let you know how they feel when I get to hit them.

[jay65]

[quote name='Frits' timestamp='1429810490' post='11426117']
Thank you very much for your reply. 130 s hard-stepped it is! I'll let you know how they feel when I get to hit them.
[/quote]

He's good eh???

[Frits]

Yep, this really helped me decide. Thx!

Does anybody have a list of who uses what Nippons on tour?

[MJisGOAT]

[attachment=2726697:image.jpg]

[MJisGOAT]

Had one shafted up today in a 7 iron, haven't had the chance to test yet, but specs out at d1-d1.5 at jdm standard length and frequencies a smidge softer than my previous blues did with stiff straight in.