Could a 12 handicapper....

[Jon H]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1428601725' post='11320385']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1428600563' post='11320197']
[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1428598856' post='11319987']
[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1428597764' post='11319799']
[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1428595936' post='11319537']
I have a second confession (the first being that I'm overwhelmed with all of the scientific jargon). I'm following this thread (not because I care about [s]eh[/s] the blade vs. CB debate - a Canadian slip ; ) because it's playing out like a serial soap opera. So many interesting personalities.

The thread has evolved into the blade debate on Coronation Street.

Much of the content is repeated, but I keep waiting for the next ridiculous turn.

In the end I hope there is something deeper to be learned, but I'm not so certain.
[/quote]

There isn't. And we don't have the Rovers to pop down to for a proper pint
[/quote]

See, that's what I'm talking about.

A civil debate in an English pub would be splendid.

I don't believe you'd change the entrenched beliefs in the thread, but we'd probably all leave a bit 'sauced'.
[/quote]

And the best bit, is you can have 1/2 dozen pints because the ABV is typically in the 3.5% - 5.5% and with last orders at 10 to 11, means you can be done, home and in bed, and still get a solid 7hrs before having to go to work the next day and then actually be productive
[/quote]

Here's the conundrum. I'm on a parental leave, my wife is working midnights, and both Peanuts are not sleeping well. PD is running on fumes.

I need to keep my drinking to a minimum because that 4 am wake-up is a real bugger.

Bourbon, scotch and whiskeys if I'm feeling adventurous. We'll see where this thread leads me ; )
[/quote]

What could possibly go wrong with whiskey?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428620772' post='11323003']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1428617371' post='11322587']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428616288' post='11322467']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1428595085' post='11319439']
In regards to your points about Mizuno, Callaway, and Ping, I have said it before. [b][i] The manufacturers steer golfers toward a fictitious iron selection system using an arbitrary chart because of financial gain through potential future sales as the golfer gets better on his own accord rather than the club he is playing. [/i][/b] They have classified their iron types by handicap level with…wait for it…NO DATA. They claim all this help to golfers with fancy marketing and meaningless numbers (MOI, and 40% bigger sweetspot!). But the real incentive is to have the golfer play as much GI improvement of a set as possible because that will mean he may buy more player's sets as he gets better, which he will likely do on his own accord. So the golfer is deluded into thinking a specific club type is exactly matched to his skill level so he follows the classification and will likely buy

It makes less financial sense if the golfer just buys the set he wants and gets better just using that set.

I play my blades with a golf hat. No tin foil. It's not a conspiracy theory. It's a simple marketing explanation.
[/quote]


Okay so lets recap, (according to you):

1) Club manufacturers purposely mislead customers toward inappropriate club selectin in the interest of selling more clubs.

2) MOI for a club head is a meaningless characteristic

3) You consider MP-60's to be cavity backs, and because you haven't had success with them you have declared all cavity backs a farce.

4) Until a club manufacturers provides definitive data that GI clubs improve scoring, you refuse to believe it.

Regarding this last point, if a toe'ed shot off a GI club hits the ball closer to the hole than a similar shot with a blade, yet the golfer misses the putt, your point is validated because the GI club did not improve the score.
[/quote]

Revise your recap. I'm tired of arguing points that you make up for me.

You forget that a blade puts me closer to the hole on a good strike than a CB does. This is a fact in my experience. You would not know this unless you play a blade or tweener vs SGI over the course of a season.

Your toe shot example is only valid, as per the testing data, if I missed on the toe like a robot does. It is a poor argument as applicable to me.
[/quote]

You keep forgetting that I'm the one with experience playing all different kinds of clubs, you are not. You have no real experience with a GI cavity back thus you can't possibly make the claims you do. I on the other hand have played blades for 15 years including the following:

Titlest Tour Model
Wilson FG-17
Palmer Peerless
Ram Tour Grind
Macgregor VIP 1025CM w/blade 6-iron.

My experience trumps yours by a factor of 100X.

The fact that you are the poster child for this discussion, yet you have no real experience, highlights how ridiculous this really is.
[/quote]
Once again you resort to ridicule and making assumptions on what I've said.

Let me know when you've put the same shafts in two of those sets, and adjusted the lofts and lies to be the same, and switched back and forth between them while recording your ghin over 8 years (and counting).

Oh since it is relevant now. I've played golf for over 30 years and have played Hogan blades, Mizuno Altron CBs, Cleveland CG2 CBs, and a short stint with old school Big Bertha irons.

You never did a side by side lengthy comparison was my point. Try to read my posts more carefully.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428618535' post='11322735']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428617792' post='11322639']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1428617371' post='11322587']
Revise your recap. I'm tired of arguing points that you make up for [b]me[/b].

You forget that a blade puts me closer to the hole on a good strike than a CB does. [b]This is a fact in my experience.[/b] You would not know this unless you play a blade or tweener vs SGI over the course of a season.

Your toe shot example is only valid, as per the testing data, if I missed on the toe like a robot does. It is a poor argument as applicable to me.
[/quote]

This is what the naysayers are missing and what kinda kills me.....

WE ARE GIVING OUR ACTUAL ON COURSE EXPERIENCE. But they seem to tell us we are wrong..... They group players in X handicap range to all be the same type of players........ That is the doing of the manufacture.... But it IS NOT TRUE...... Anyone can be a 12 cap period. Not all 12caps, hit the driver, bad, not all 12 caps hit the putter bad, not all 12 caps hit their irons bad.


But you all seem to quantify all players because they are a 12 that they dont do anything good. That is just IGNORANT...... PLAIN IGNORANT.......

We are telling you exactly how it works and you say that cant be right no 12 cap does that.... How stupid is that???

So let me spell it out...... I dont MISS hit often. I hit the center of the club.... my swing path may be off, my face angle may be off, but I hit the center of the face pretty often.

If I do miss a shot, I am still screwed regardless of the iron in my hand and I need to be saved by a chip or a putt......

Same if I cant keep the driver in play, my Iron needs to save me right? So If I only hit 3 Fairways...... That is worse than a 20 hdcp in essence, but I shot better than a 90, hell better than 101 and I hit twice as many fairways that day..... So please how do you group that together?
[/quote]

Serious question- if you are saying that your swing path is off so frequently, and that you hit the ball with a closed or open club face in relation to the target line or path, why would you want to do it with a club that imparts more side spin on the ball?
[/quote]

not to mention that when the iron head is presented to the ball at an angle, the small sweetzone of a blade is even harder to find.....

also give a slicer a pro v1 and he becomes really dangerous even to people in the next fairway over....but sometimes it's better to be in the adjoining fairway than in the woods adjoining the hole the player is one.....just ask tiger....so the twists of logic often used in this thread would indicate that a huge slice is better than a run of the mill one

[Exactice808]

Can one of you CB guys please refute my on course examples?


Nine asked a great question and I responded. T.Beau Convince me that a CB would be better for me. Govols..... Common dont just tell me I am a bad player..... I am so lets agree.. so TELL me how a GI/CB will help my game?

[govols]

I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428621905' post='11323125']
Can one of you CB guys please refute my on course examples?


Nine asked a great question and I responded. T.Beau Convince me that a CB would be better for me. Govols..... Common dont just tell me I am a bad player..... I am so lets agree.. so TELL me how a GI/CB will help my game?
[/quote]

U tell us... According to you sig you already play a CB... Bordering on, if not actually, a GI.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....

[Exactice808]

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622301' post='11323169']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428621905' post='11323125']
Can one of you CB guys please refute my on course examples?


Nine asked a great question and I responded. T.Beau Convince me that a CB would be better for me. Govols..... Common dont just tell me I am a bad player..... I am so lets agree.. so TELL me how a GI/CB will help my game?
[/quote]

U tell us... According to you sig you already play a CB... Bordering on, if not actually, a GI.
[/quote]

Yes yes, I alternate between the 2 sets of clubs... I have detailed this. But recently I have enjoyed and found the blades to work better...

Yes the JPX are in my sig as I "bought" into the I need a GI because my game is not good enough. But my on course experience is starting to change this. As I share my experience, nine seems to ask great questions to keep it going. Govols on the other hand....well...... I have a feeling I am going to get banned soon.

He must be an Admin, with a troll account, or a family member of someone on here. Cause there is no way an @SShole could be posting like the way he does with out raising some flags....

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622308' post='11323171']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....
[/quote]

He wants to make sure that the thread isn't active so nobody can look back and see me shred his arguments, have him flip flop, and then have me call him out nasty on it. If it gets locked, it's like it never happened.

[govols]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622308' post='11323171'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....[/quote]

Lol. Unless I misunderstood your post the reasoning you gave in defense of blades was they helped you recover from trees and trouble spots better because you can't keep a driver in play. You give another reason where in some situations it doesn't matter what you play.

[Gauchograd99]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622489' post='11323183']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622301' post='11323169']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428621905' post='11323125']
Can one of you CB guys please refute my on course examples?


Nine asked a great question and I responded. T.Beau Convince me that a CB would be better for me. Govols..... Common dont just tell me I am a bad player..... I am so lets agree.. so TELL me how a GI/CB will help my game?
[/quote]

U tell us... According to you sig you already play a CB... Bordering on, if not actually, a GI.
[/quote]

Yes yes, I alternate between the 2 sets of clubs... I have detailed this. But recently I have enjoyed and found the blades to work better...

Yes the JPX are in my sig as I "bought" into the I need a GI because my game is not good enough. But my on course experience is starting to change this. As I share my experience, nine seems to ask great questions to keep it going. Govols on the other hand....well...... I have a feeling I am going to get banned soon.

He must be an Admin, with a troll account, or a family member of someone on here. Cause there is no way an @SShole could be posting like the way he does with out raising some flags....
[/quote]

I have another theory: He is the East Coast Rep for Pings, the makers of shovels and only shovels. He'll lose his job when people figure out that modern MB's are pretty darn forgiving and pretty much anyone can play them without taking a 'cap hit.

[JasonFL]

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428616678' post='11322501']
I'd like to say something that hasn't really been said.

Why hasn't anyone argued that a midcap, who could be considered as a tweener golfer (not average, but not elite), should most likely play tweener clubs?

Clearly, through both physics and experience, this thread has show that MBs and CB/GIs possess unique benefits, and many of the midcaps involved (myself included) could use some of both benefits, but be hurt by some of the downsides too!

So why not recommend the tweener golfers play tweener clubs: think player's cavity. Low offset, feel and feedback, and a blend of distance control and forgiveness.

I know thats why I play the tweener clubs I play: SGI offset and variable distances hurt my score, but so would severe punishment on a moderate miss. The answer: long irons with high COR and fairly large cavity and mid offset (Apex), short irons with fairly high COR, some cavity, and less offset (apex pro), and wedges with no offset, some cavity, but low COR effect (RTX).

Just saying... midcap, midclubs.
[/quote]
I did that.

Bought I20s and went to the GOLFWRX approved regular flex shaft.

Scores went up. High hooks.

Gave them a full season last season.

Went back to the Macs this season. Took a lesson to get me started for this season and to erase bad habbit from last year.

Ball flight now starts low right with a draw, rises and drops with little roll out on the short irons.

Still getting used to it but im trending down. Last three nines are 45, 42, 39. Diver and club choice killed me on my 45. Like hitting 3 wood on a hole that had water right at my 3W distance. 7 on the card for that dumb move.

[govols]

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622564' post='11323193'][quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622308' post='11323171']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....
[/quote]

He wants to make sure that the thread isn't active so nobody can look back and see me shred his arguments, have him flip flop, and then have me call him out nasty on it. If it gets locked, it's like it never happened.[/quote]

Wow Sheldon you've split the atom and explained the laws of physics 29 times in this thread to hear yourself talk. Nothing actually relevant to 12 handicap golf.

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622489' post='11323183']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622301' post='11323169']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428621905' post='11323125']
Can one of you CB guys please refute my on course examples?


Nine asked a great question and I responded. T.Beau Convince me that a CB would be better for me. Govols..... Common dont just tell me I am a bad player..... I am so lets agree.. so TELL me how a GI/CB will help my game?
[/quote]

U tell us... According to you sig you already play a CB... Bordering on, if not actually, a GI.
[/quote]

Yes yes, I alternate between the 2 sets of clubs... I have detailed this. But recently I have enjoyed and found the blades to work better...

Yes the JPX are in my sig as I "bought" into the I need a GI because my game is not good enough. But my on course experience is starting to change this. As I share my experience, nine seems to ask great questions to keep it going. Govols on the other hand....well...... I have a feeling I am going to get banned soon.

He must be an Admin, with a troll account, or a family member of someone on here. Cause there is no way an @SShole could be posting like the way he does with out raising some flags....
[/quote]

I was messing with you. I think the answer is we/nobody can. Too many factors.

This is why it is (for most of us) an enjoyable debate. A 12 cap is good enough to desire some of the blade attributes, and bad enough to benefit from some of the GI attributes.

If we were talking about a 20 cap the argument changes, but with a 12 or so (an above average, but non elite golfer), it just depends on tons of things, including understanding your strengths, and weaknesses, what your normal miss is, if you need more distance, if your mentality prefers one club to another, how consistent your ball striking is.... It's a long list.

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622990' post='11323259']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622564' post='11323193'][quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622308' post='11323171']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....
[/quote]

He wants to make sure that the thread isn't active so nobody can look back and see me shred his arguments, have him flip flop, and then have me call him out nasty on it. If it gets locked, it's like it never happened.[/quote]

Wow Sheldon you've split the atom and explained the laws of physics 29 times in this thread to hear yourself talk. Nothing actually relevant to 12 handicap golf.
[/quote]

How about you post another flawed argument so I can take a giant dump on it.

Or you could continue throwing stones in your tiny glass box... Probably a better idea for you, as your feelings won't get hurt that way.

[govols]

[quote name='Gauchograd99' timestamp='1428622782' post='11323237'][quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622489' post='11323183']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622301' post='11323169']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428621905' post='11323125']
Can one of you CB guys please refute my on course examples?


Nine asked a great question and I responded. T.Beau Convince me that a CB would be better for me. Govols..... Common dont just tell me I am a bad player..... I am so lets agree.. so TELL me how a GI/CB will help my game?
[/quote]

U tell us... According to you sig you already play a CB... Bordering on, if not actually, a GI.
[/quote]

Yes yes, I alternate between the 2 sets of clubs... I have detailed this. But recently I have enjoyed and found the blades to work better...

Yes the JPX are in my sig as I "bought" into the I need a GI because my game is not good enough. But my on course experience is starting to change this. As I share my experience, nine seems to ask great questions to keep it going. Govols on the other hand....well...... I have a feeling I am going to get banned soon.

He must be an Admin, with a troll account, or a family member of someone on here. Cause there is no way an @SShole could be posting like the way he does with out raising some flags....
[/quote]

I have another theory: He is the East Coast Rep for Pings, the makers of shovels and only shovels. He'll lose his job when people figure out that modern MB's are pretty darn forgiving and pretty much anyone can play them without taking a 'cap hit.[/quote]

Hope they don't look in my bag

[Mahamilto]

And I like to hear myself?

I joined this forum only 4.5 months after you, yet somehow you have double the posts of me... That's sorta interesting, huh?

[govols]

[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428623361' post='11323305'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622990' post='11323259']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428622564' post='11323193'][quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622308' post='11323171']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....
[/quote]

He wants to make sure that the thread isn't active so nobody can look back and see me shred his arguments, have him flip flop, and then have me call him out nasty on it. If it gets locked, it's like it never happened.[/quote]

Wow Sheldon you've split the atom and explained the laws of physics 29 times in this thread to hear yourself talk. Nothing actually relevant to 12 handicap golf.
[/quote]

How about you post another flawed argument so I can take a giant dump on it.

Or you could continue throwing stones in your tiny glass box... Probably a better idea for you, as your feelings won't get hurt that way.[/quote]


Lol. You're too much. Sorry wannabe Sir Isaac Newton Jr if think you can hurt someone's feelings here I already feel sorry for you.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622696' post='11323215']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428622308' post='11323171'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1428622013' post='11323139']
I can only slice my driver but can work my blades both ways and flight them on command.
[/quote]

Just another stupid post.... he wants to get this locked cause he doesnt want to look any more like an idiot.....

again criticizing but no actual input.....


Govol.... You are just sad...... Just sad.....[/quote]

Lol. Unless I misunderstood your post the reasoning you gave in defense of blades was they helped you recover from trees and trouble spots better because you can't keep a driver in play. You give another reason where in some situations it doesn't matter what you play.
[/quote]

No you did not misunderstand that. That is correct....... I have also posted my main reasons for alternating between 2 sets as posted a way back in many other threads

[size=5][b][color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]"Now again I will say again that the choice of blades vs GI for some including myself works for a specific reason.[/background][/color]
[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]My reason again....[/background][/color]
[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]windy, dry, short tight course, the blades fit well for me.[/background][/color]
[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]if its the opposite, I will use my JPX's[/background][/color]
[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Simple as that... The irons fit the course and my swing. I dont have to change anything in my swing the irons do it for me.[/background][/color]
[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]I started from 17 this year and now a 11.5..... do I attribute it to my blades? No.... do I shoot the same scores? Yes as I improved the scores dropped. What is the difference? Well I used a set that fit the course so I scored more effectively.[/background][/color]

[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Example..... If it was windy and dry If I took my JPX's I might have scored 86 because I may have ballooned a couple shots etc had a harder time keeping it under the wind. When I played with my blades under the exact same conditions (same course) I may have shot a 83 because I was able to take advantage of the lower flight. The flip side on the conditions,[/background][/color]

[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]So my GHIN dropped because I played what worked..... If I stuck with 1 set.....well maybe I would not have seen such a fast drop in handicap...... So did it help yes it did. Did it make me a better player? Probably not, but it did allow me to get a better score under certain situations."[/background][/color][/b]

[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]This is an old post and I searched and low and behold guess who was posting.... you Govols so you have read my reasoning..[/background][/color]

[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]As for alternating..... [/background][/color]
[color=#282828][background=rgb(247, 247, 247)]Lets say I hit 2 bad shots a round. And I mean bad shots...... a GI will not save me. But the rest of the time I hit decent to get me around the course....... But I need workability What basis does a GI fit in that scenario? Its like a Rally Racer using an F1 Car, It doesnt make sense...... Just like how yo dont make sense either[/background][/color][/size]

[mizuno player]

I drive better after a few beers. I concentrate more better. Has there ever been a 100 pager before?

I drive better after a few beers. I concentrate more better. Has there ever been a 100 pager before?

[dog flog]

I've read that one reason some tour guys don't play pure blades is because they find cavity backs launch higher for them and produce a steeper angle of descent, thus stopping quicker on greens. I've noticed that this hasn't been discussed much, although I recall Miler talking about trajectory and apex some pages back. I'm assuming that most 12 caps are getting lower peak heights on their iron shots so might this be something they should be considering as much as feedback and forgiveness?

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428623750' post='11323353']
Lol. You're too much. Sorry wannabe Sir Isaac Newton Jr if think you can hurt someone's feelings here I already feel sorry for you.
[/quote]

Sir Issac Newton Jr. Original. At least when you called me Sheldon it was something new.

Any comment on how you managed to double my post count in similar duration of membership, you know, considering I just like hearing myself.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1428623954' post='11323379']
I've read that one reason some tour guys don't play pure blades is because they find cavity backs launch higher for them and produce a steeper angle of descent, thus stopping quicker on greens. I've noticed that this hasn't been discussed much, although I recall Miler talking about trajectory and apex some pages back. I'm assuming that most 12 caps are getting lower peak heights on their iron shots so might this be something they should be considering as much as feedback and forgiveness?
[/quote]

Dog Excellent point!!!

Nine and I had this disucssion. As a plus handicap he is a good all around player, He chose to use the Pro Combos. I asked him why. He stated it launches higher.

GI, paired with a High launching shaft was designed to help the higher handicappers get the ball in the air as that is probably one of the challenging parts.

Now Pair that to a CB.....

It has been discussed that the Titleist CB launches Higher than the MBs

The DeNinny's MP60's I am assuming Launch Higher than his MP67s

Nike Pro combos Luanch Higher than the Nike VR pros.


My JPXs Launch WAY higher than my MBs.


While I am a 12 I hit the ball pretty darn high, with the stronger winds here in Hawaii, it affects ball flight often so having a lower piercing ball flight makes a huge difference.

While Yes I can "flight down the JPXs" why would I not just get a club that launches lower and swing normal? And on days I need a higher launch club, I can pull the JPXs out.


So Yes I agree about the ball flight, but, this is also why I chose the MBs at times because I did not WANT the flight!

Great statement BTW!

[govols]

I'd hate for the weather to change during your round.

[govols]

Glad loft, shaft, and balls have nothing to do with ball flight anymore. Just need a MB that the face has been well struck all over by 12 hc's and you can do anything.

[Exactice808]

Man I just want to hit the report button on this Jack@ss... but if I do they will lock this thread........ I think some members have put some great points in this thread.......

[Mahamilto]

He's just trying to push it to another page... He got shredded on this one. Multiple times by multiple people.

[dog flog]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1428624328' post='11323425']
[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1428623954' post='11323379']
I've read that one reason some tour guys don't play pure blades is because they find cavity backs launch higher for them and produce a steeper angle of descent, thus stopping quicker on greens. I've noticed that this hasn't been discussed much, although I recall Miler talking about trajectory and apex some pages back. I'm assuming that most 12 caps are getting lower peak heights on their iron shots so might this be something they should be considering as much as feedback and forgiveness?
[/quote]

Dog Excellent point!!!

Nine and I had this disucssion. As a plus handicap he is a good all around player, He chose to use the Pro Combos. I asked him why. He stated it launches higher.

GI, paired with a High launching shaft was designed to help the higher handicappers get the ball in the air as that is probably one of the challenging parts.

Now Pair that to a CB.....

It has been discussed that the Titleist CB launches Higher than the MBs

The DeNinny's MP60's I am assuming Launch Higher than his MP67s

Nike Pro combos Luanch Higher than the Nike VR pros.


My JPXs Launch WAY higher than my MBs.


While I am a 12 I hit the ball pretty darn high, with the stronger winds here in Hawaii, it affects ball flight often so having a lower piercing ball flight makes a huge difference.

While Yes I can "flight down the JPXs" why would I not just get a club that launches lower and swing normal? And on days I need a higher launch club, I can pull the JPXs out.


So Yes I agree about the ball flight, but, this is also why I chose the MBs at times because I did not WANT the flight!

Great statement BTW!
[/quote]Thanks, Exactice. Makes sense. BTW, I hope you don't mind me hating you just a bit for living in Hawaii.

[Mahamilto]

[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1428622844' post='11323247']
[quote name='Mahamilto' timestamp='1428616678' post='11322501']
I'd like to say something that hasn't really been said.

Why hasn't anyone argued that a midcap, who could be considered as a tweener golfer (not average, but not elite), should most likely play tweener clubs?

Clearly, through both physics and experience, this thread has show that MBs and CB/GIs possess unique benefits, and many of the midcaps involved (myself included) could use some of both benefits, but be hurt by some of the downsides too!

So why not recommend the tweener golfers play tweener clubs: think player's cavity. Low offset, feel and feedback, and a blend of distance control and forgiveness.

I know thats why I play the tweener clubs I play: SGI offset and variable distances hurt my score, but so would severe punishment on a moderate miss. The answer: long irons with high COR and fairly large cavity and mid offset (Apex), short irons with fairly high COR, some cavity, and less offset (apex pro), and wedges with no offset, some cavity, but low COR effect (RTX).

Just saying... midcap, midclubs.
[/quote]
I did that.

Bought I20s and went to the GOLFWRX approved regular flex shaft.

Scores went up. High hooks.

Gave them a full season last season.

Went back to the Macs this season. Took a lesson to get me started for this season and to erase bad habbit from last year.

Ball flight now starts low right with a draw, rises and drops with little roll out on the short irons.

Still getting used to it but im trending down. Last three nines are 45, 42, 39. Diver and club choice killed me on my 45. Like hitting 3 wood on a hole that had water right at my 3W distance. 7 on the card for that dumb move.
[/quote]

Could have been shaft. If I go too soft of a flex I end up constantly left, same goes for too much offset for me.

[Exactice808]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428624610' post='11323457']
Glad loft, shaft, and balls have nothing to do with ball flight anymore. Just need a MB that the face has been well struck all over by 12 hc's and you can do anything.
[/quote]


Good point.....


So let me ask you this....


My JPX825pro PW is an Dynalite S300 45*

My Nike MB 9iron is X100 45*


If I hit them with the same ball...... what would happen?

SAME lofts Different shafts, I would get a different ball flight right? THAT IS THE POINT....... How hard is it to get through your head..... The need fits my game of play that is why I play it. I dont play it for ego, I dont play it because I think it makes me a better player. It works for my game of play.


Now what happens if I put the same shafts in Both Irons, what would happen..... STILL 2 different ball flights..... They would not be the same due to the overall characteristics of the design.

Lastly..... Prove to me...... PROVE TO ME A 12hdcp is a bad ball striker of the IRONS specifically. You cant.... its your opinion.......get over it.....