Could a 12 handicapper....

[wetdogsmell]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428593121' post='11319153']
i still think there are some folks in this thread that think because they had their balls surgically removed, that all of us should.
[/quote]

What?!

[T.Beau]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface, how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling

[cliffhanger]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428593922' post='11319281']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

[u][b]other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface[/b][/u], how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling
[/quote]ding ding ding... a solid shot does not guarantee a quality shot.

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]
New angle? That is pretty much the entire debate summed up in one line....if you believe the ballstriking ability necessary for playing blades is higher (i.e., many pros dont even play them), then you will never be able to justify a 12 cap using them. If you believe the required ballstriking ability to be lower than that, then you can conceivably understand some 12s who are relatively strong iron players being able to get away with it.

[cliffhanger]

[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1428594177' post='11319307']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]
New angle? That is pretty much the entire debate summed up in one line....if you believe the ballstriking ability necessary for playing blades is higher (i.e., many pros dont even play them), then you will never be able to justify a 12 cap using them. If you believe the required ballstriking ability to be lower than that, then you can conceivably understand some 12s who are relatively strong iron players being able to get away with it.
[/quote]there is a difference between hitting a solid shot and solid ball striking... please do not confuse the two

[tesuquegolfer]

Really, 69 pages of posts, I don't get it, there really isn't a right or wrong answer. It is personal preference and depends on the person hitting the ball.

[govols]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428594170' post='11319305'][quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428593922' post='11319281']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

[u][b]other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface[/b][/u], how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling
[/quote]ding ding ding... a solid shot does not guarantee a quality shot.[/quote]

Nobody ever said it did. Another unreasonable grasp at straws. If your argument is you never hit quality shots or hit it solid then I doubt it matters what you play.

[govols]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428594325' post='11319329'][quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1428594177' post='11319307']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]
New angle? That is pretty much the entire debate summed up in one line....if you believe the ballstriking ability necessary for playing blades is higher (i.e., many pros dont even play them), then you will never be able to justify a 12 cap using them. If you believe the required ballstriking ability to be lower than that, then you can conceivably understand some 12s who are relatively strong iron players being able to get away with it.
[/quote]there is a difference between hitting a solid shot and solid ball striking... please do not confuse the two[/quote]

When both apply and you're playing blades then all you're trying to do is look better than what you are.

Not gonna be many "solid shots" hitting a toed 4 iron 150 yards. Unless you claim to hit your 4 iron 150 yards lol.

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428594325' post='11319329']
[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1428594177' post='11319307']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]
New angle? That is pretty much the entire debate summed up in one line....if you believe the ballstriking ability necessary for playing blades is higher (i.e., many pros dont even play them), then you will never be able to justify a 12 cap using them. If you believe the required ballstriking ability to be lower than that, then you can conceivably understand some 12s who are relatively strong iron players being able to get away with it.
[/quote]there is a difference between hitting a solid shot and solid ball striking... please do not confuse the two
[/quote]

Doesn't change my point much. If you believe a large number of pro golfers don't feel they hit the ball solid enough for a blade, you aren't going to buy the argument that a lot of 12 cappers do.

[cliffhanger]

[quote name='tesuquegolfer' timestamp='1428594541' post='11319361']
Really, 69 pages of posts, I don't get it, there really isn't a right or wrong answer. It is personal preference and depends on the person hitting the ball.
[/quote]i am sure there will be at least 20 more pages of the WRX Elite telling us mere mortals what we should be playing lol... i am so glad that these folks are so concerned with what i play... the 2013 x forged i play are apparently too much club for me... i guess the apex pros i just ordered are too... and don't forget about the Apex MB's that are on their way will bee way too much lol.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428585896' post='11318219']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1428585176' post='11318133']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428582678' post='11317855']
GI irons don't help people improve their swing, they just help you score better on those occasions when you mishit the ball. If you never mishit the ball then play blades, and get an agent.

The science behind GI clubs is real. If you don't care then fine for you. Just understand that you are an outlier; 3 sigma in the normal distribution curve. Someone needs to be 3 sigma, so you guys are fulfilling a useful purpose in life.

When 3 sigma people think they are correct and everyone else is wrong that's when talk of conspiracy theories come in. Understand that companies like Mizuno and Ping, which attempt to guide players toward clubs which will provide an appropriate amount of help, are not trying to trick you. You just need to be properly aware of your surroundings to accept the help though.

Or just ignore the advice by industry leaders, claim conspiracy theory, and continue on playing your blades as a mid capper. Golf is just a game remember. Not life and death. Just hope you guys don't get a heart attack on the course when you dunk that 4 iron blade shot in the lake. Then it could be life or death. Hey, maybe they should provide a disclaimer on each set of blades they sell: Don't play blades as a mid capper if you have a heart condition. Now there's some useful information!
[/quote]
There's no outliers. You cannot prove this.

You cannot prove that GI clubs help score.

Because of this your tact is to mock or just make claims with limited to no backup.

You would make a better case if you had some side by side scoring data to compare. And not some argument like you played blades years ago.

Oh and don't you work in the golf industry?
[/quote]

Please remove references to "you" (me) and change it to Mizuno & Ping & Callaway (maybe others too), because these companies guide players towards clubs based on either Handicap or ability. Do you think it's a conspiracy against the golfing public to guide mid/high cappers towards GI equipment?

Do you wear a tin foil hat when you are hitting your blades?
[/quote]
I see you have unblocked me.  That means I will have to repeat myself on points I have already made in this thread.  But it also will demonstrate that you will avoid my questions of your points.

For example you still cannot claim any side by side playing experience between a blade and your CBs.  And you never played blades side by side with CBs as a 12 index, so you really don’t know if a 12 can or cannot play blades as well as CBs.  You’ve never done it.

Another example is that you have avoided my question in regards to whether or not you work in the golf industry.  

So anyway, I’m just pointing all of this out since you still choose to reply to me after dramatizing and calling out that you are blocking of me.  

In regards to your points about Mizuno, Callaway, and Ping, I have said it before.  The manufacturers steer golfers toward a fictitious iron selection system using an arbitrary chart because of financial gain through potential future sales as the golfer gets better on his own accord rather than the club he is playing.  They have classified their iron types by handicap level with…wait for it…NO DATA.  They claim all this help to golfers with fancy marketing and meaningless numbers (MOI, and 40% bigger sweetspot!).  But the real incentive is to have the golfer play as much GI improvement of a set as possible because that will mean he may buy more player’s sets as he gets better, which he will likely do on his own accord.  So the golfer is deluded into thinking a specific club type is exactly matched to his skill level so he follows the classification and will likely buy

It makes less financial sense if the golfer just buys the set he wants and gets better just using that set.  

Oh and from my anecdotal observation those GI sets are made with cheaper materials like plastic and the expensive materials like forged steel are minimized.  Again more incentive to sell the more GI club.

The golf manufactures have been doing this for 30 years of CB design.  For 30 years they have never been able to outright prove that a golfer’s score is improved by virtue of the iron type in his hand.

Again, there is no conspiracy theory here (but you do like to mention that as a tactic through mocking and ridicule).  It’s just an obvious observation to me because this makes the most business sense to the manufacturers.  Helping the golfer is secondary to profit margins.

I play my blades with a golf hat.  No tin foil.  It’s not a conspiracy theory.  It’s a simple marketing explanation.

[cliffhanger]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428594796' post='11319393']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428594325' post='11319329'][quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1428594177' post='11319307']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]
New angle? That is pretty much the entire debate summed up in one line....if you believe the ballstriking ability necessary for playing blades is higher (i.e., many pros dont even play them), then you will never be able to justify a 12 cap using them. If you believe the required ballstriking ability to be lower than that, then you can conceivably understand some 12s who are relatively strong iron players being able to get away with it.
[/quote]there is a difference between hitting a solid shot and solid ball striking... please do not confuse the two[/quote]

When both apply and you're playing blades then all you're trying to do is look better than what you are.

Not gonna be many "solid shots" hitting a toed 4 iron 150 yards. Unless you claim to hit your 4 iron 150 yards lol.
[/quote]my toed 4 iron carries 205... i guess i should learn how to hit it solid lol

[cliffhanger]

Master's time... keep on crying about blades and 12 handicappers lol

[Tcann32]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428593922' post='11319281']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface, how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling
[/quote]

That is not trolling in the least. Some of that is exactly what I've been talking about, just potentially on the other side of the fence. I can't keep track who thinks what besides the ones who haven't been exactly civil. Everything you listed is poor contact. But aren't necessarily the result of poor choice of equipment, and wouldn't be helped by anything other than swing changes.

I pull the ball with my mid irons all too often, but it's a swing issue, and honestly the margin of error has been much better since I started playing clubs that most on here would say I have no business playing, as an offset club face made it worse.

I used to have to swing down considerably more to alleviate thin shots when I had clubs with wider soles/less of a leading edge. My old clubs were just simply a poor fit for my swing. Aiming intentionally way left and swinging steeper were things I had to do to fight the tendencies of the clubs themselves, and I had to consider all that before making smart plays on the course itself.

[govols]

Nobody is telling anybody what to play. It's your money play what you want. You're here making an argument and we're here letting you that we'll never buy that a mid hc subpar ball striker should be playing blades because their mishits are somehow different or their swing somehow bypasses the punishment of less than center faced contact or they need supreme workability etc.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428595039' post='11319431']
[quote name='tesuquegolfer' timestamp='1428594541' post='11319361']
Really, 69 pages of posts, I don't get it, there really isn't a right or wrong answer. It is personal preference and depends on the person hitting the ball.
[/quote]i am sure there will be at least 20 more pages of the WRX Elite telling us mere mortals what we should be playing lol... i am so glad that these folks are so concerned with what i play... the 2013 x forged i play are apparently too much club for me... i guess the apex pros i just ordered are too... and don't forget about the Apex MB's that are on their way will bee way too much lol.
[/quote]
You will be just fine with those MBs. And you will have more fun as you learn ball control with them and as you feel that pure bliss of striking a blade. I hope you post your experiences in this thread which will add more value than elitist posts using anecdotal observation.

[PeanutsDaddy]

I have a second confession (the first being that I'm overwhelmed with all of the scientific jargon). I'm following this thread (not because I care about [s]eh[/s] the blade vs. CB debate - a Canadian slip ; ) because it's playing out like a serial soap opera. So many interesting personalities.

The thread has evolved into the blade debate on Coronation Street.

Much of the content is repeated, but I keep waiting for the next ridiculous turn.

In the end I hope there is something deeper to be learned, but I'm not so certain.

[Nessism]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428595358' post='11319473']
Nobody is telling anybody what to play. It's your money play what you want. You're here making an argument and we're here letting you that we'll never buy that a mid hc subpar ball striker should be playing blades because their mishits are somehow different or their swing somehow bypasses the punishment of less than center faced contact or they need supreme workability etc.
[/quote]

Need a couple commas in that last sentence my man. I agree with the jist of what you are saying though.

While every person has their own swing, the argument that some mid cappers play better with blades somehow is unfathomable to me. Only way that could be the case is if the person has a mental block against GI clubs. If that's the case then I believe it though. The minds prejudices are hard to overcome sometimes.

Mind you I'm not saying a midcapper can't play blades if they want to. It's not like the scores would drop like a rock or anything if GI clubs were used instead. Play what you want, just play them for the right reasons.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428594170' post='11319305']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428593922' post='11319281']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

[u][b]other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface[/b][/u], how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling
[/quote]ding ding ding... a solid shot does not guarantee a quality shot.
[/quote]

ya man...you really got me there

[duffer987]

[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]

But it isn't a new angle - and it isn't "trolling" - we discussed it days ago and I agree with him. Anyone saying they "pure" 2 or more shots a round on average, has spent too much time handing out "winners" ribbons at school sports days.

Perfect, pure, whatever you want to call them, iron shots struck with something 8I or higher are rare. Very rare.

[govols]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428596038' post='11319547'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1428595358' post='11319473']
Nobody is telling anybody what to play. It's your money play what you want. You're here making an argument and we're here letting you that we'll never buy that a mid hc subpar ball striker should be playing blades because their mishits are somehow different or their swing somehow bypasses the punishment of less than center faced contact or they need supreme workability etc.
[/quote]

Need a couple commas in that last sentence my man. I agree with the jist of what you are saying though.

While every person has their own swing, the argument that some mid cappers play better with blades somehow is unfathomable to me. Only way that could be the case is if the person has a mental block against GI clubs. If that's the case then I believe it though. The minds prejudices are hard to overcome sometimes.

Mind you I'm not saying a midcapper can't play blades if they want to. It's not like the scores would drop like a rock or anything if GI clubs were used instead. Play what you want, just play them for the right reasons.[/quote]

Nah. I can avoid punctuation and drag on sentences because that just works for me.

[Jon H]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428591241' post='11318889']
[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1428583521' post='11317947'][quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428582678' post='11317855']
GI irons don't help people improve their swing, they just help you score better on those occasions when you mishit the ball. If you never mishit the ball then play blades, and get an agent.

The science behind GI clubs is real. If you don't care then fine for you. Just understand that you are an outlier; 3 sigma in the normal distribution curve. Someone needs to be 3 sigma, so you guys are fulfilling a useful purpose in life.

When 3 sigma people think they are correct and everyone else is wrong that's when talk of conspiracy theories come in. Understand that companies like Mizuno and Ping, which attempt to guide players toward clubs which will provide an appropriate amount of help, are not trying to trick you. You just need to be properly aware of your surroundings to accept the help though.

Or just ignore the advice by industry leaders, claim conspiracy theory, and continue on playing your blades as a mid capper. Golf is just a game remember. Not life and death. Just hope you guys don't get a heart attack on the course when you dunk that 4 iron blade shot in the lake. Then it could be life or death. Hey, maybe they should provide a disclaimer on each set of blades they sell: Don't play blades as a mid capper if you have a heart condition. Now there's some useful information!
[/quote]
When you say mis-hit are you talking out on the chrome? Or barely inside the chrome near the toe?

Because I havent noticed any distance lost when I am 1/4" either side of center with my Macs.[/quote]

Nobody believes this
[/quote]

Given recent revelations, no one cares what you believe.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428596038' post='11319547']
[quote name='govols' timestamp='1428595358' post='11319473']
Nobody is telling anybody what to play. It's your money play what you want. You're here making an argument and we're here letting you that we'll never buy that a mid hc subpar ball striker should be playing blades because their mishits are somehow different or their swing somehow bypasses the punishment of less than center faced contact or they need supreme workability etc.
[/quote]

Need a couple commas in that last sentence my man. I agree with the jist of what you are saying though.

While every person has their own swing, the argument that some mid cappers play better with blades somehow is unfathomable to me. Only way that could be the case is if the person has a mental block against GI clubs. If that's the case then I believe it though. The minds prejudices are hard to overcome sometimes.

Mind you I'm not saying a midcapper can't play blades if they want to. It's not like the scores would drop like a rock or anything if GI clubs were used instead. Play what you want, just play them for the right reasons.
[/quote]
The only reason it is unfathomable to you is your own mental block against blades.

Most guys that play blades have bought into the marketing and played both CBs and GIs. I was one of them as a new WRX member that played CBs even before my blades. Then I bought blades (and CBs and SGIs) and my handicap dropped as I played them or any other type of club. Except my SGIs which were horrible for my personal swing.

[T.Beau]

[quote name='Tcann32' timestamp='1428595339' post='11319469']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428593922' post='11319281']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface, how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling
[/quote]

That is not trolling in the least. Some of that is exactly what I've been talking about, just potentially on the other side of the fence. I can't keep track who thinks what besides the ones who haven't been exactly civil. Everything you listed is poor contact. But aren't necessarily the result of poor choice of equipment, and wouldn't be helped by anything other than swing changes.

I pull the ball with my mid irons all too often, but it's a swing issue, and honestly the margin of error has been much better since I started playing clubs that most on here would say I have no business playing, as an offset club face made it worse.

I used to have to swing down considerably more to alleviate thin shots when I had clubs with wider soles/less of a leading edge. My old clubs were just simply a poor fit for my swing. Aiming intentionally way left and swinging steeper were things I had to do to fight the tendencies of the clubs themselves, and I had to consider all that before making smart plays on the course itself.
[/quote]

well around here disagreeing w. someone is often considered trolling.

[Tcann32]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1428596268' post='11319581']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428592766' post='11319097']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1428592546' post='11319071']
I still think there are some folks in this thread that either 1. Don't understand what solid contact actually is, or 2. Have an extremely liberal definition of it.
[/quote]i love this guy... trolls it right up with a new angle... lol.
[/quote]

But it isn't a new angle - and it isn't "trolling" - we discussed it days ago and I agree with him. Anyone saying they "pure" 2 or more shots a round on average, has spent too much time handing out "winners" ribbons at school sports days.

Perfect, pure, whatever you want to call them, iron shots struck with something 8I or higher are rare. Very rare.
[/quote]

I hope other people understand this as well, but some of the people on both sides of the fence do not. I played 9 holes last night and pured 1 shot with a 6 iron and had some great shots with other irons, but none of them quite had that "feel nothing, perfect contact". I played decent, and didn't have poor contact, but pured one shot, and they are always memorable. I have seen the argument that until you can pure 90% of your irons, then you shouldn't play anything outside of GI's

[T.Beau]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1428595936' post='11319537']
I have a second confession (the first being that I'm overwhelmed with all of the scientific jargon). I'm following this thread (not because I care about [s]eh[/s] the blade vs. CB debate - a Canadian slip ; ) because it's playing out like a serial soap opera. So many interesting personalities.

The thread has evolved into the blade debate on Coronation Street.

Much of the content is repeated, but I keep waiting for the next ridiculous turn.

In the end I hope there is something deeper to be learned, but I'm not so certain.
[/quote]

aye....(not eh)...or arrrrgh! this thread is kinda like trying to not look at a car wreck...it's jerry springerish but generally at a more intellectual level..

[govols]

[quote name='Jon H' timestamp='1428596793' post='11319665'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1428591241' post='11318889']
[quote name='JasonFL' timestamp='1428583521' post='11317947'][quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1428582678' post='11317855']
GI irons don't help people improve their swing, they just help you score better on those occasions when you mishit the ball. If you never mishit the ball then play blades, and get an agent.

The science behind GI clubs is real. If you don't care then fine for you. Just understand that you are an outlier; 3 sigma in the normal distribution curve. Someone needs to be 3 sigma, so you guys are fulfilling a useful purpose in life.

When 3 sigma people think they are correct and everyone else is wrong that's when talk of conspiracy theories come in. Understand that companies like Mizuno and Ping, which attempt to guide players toward clubs which will provide an appropriate amount of help, are not trying to trick you. You just need to be properly aware of your surroundings to accept the help though.

Or just ignore the advice by industry leaders, claim conspiracy theory, and continue on playing your blades as a mid capper. Golf is just a game remember. Not life and death. Just hope you guys don't get a heart attack on the course when you dunk that 4 iron blade shot in the lake. Then it could be life or death. Hey, maybe they should provide a disclaimer on each set of blades they sell: Don't play blades as a mid capper if you have a heart condition. Now there's some useful information!
[/quote]
When you say mis-hit are you talking out on the chrome? Or barely inside the chrome near the toe?

Because I havent noticed any distance lost when I am 1/4" either side of center with my Macs.[/quote]

Nobody believes this
[/quote]

Given recent revelations, no one cares what you believe.[/quote]

There's been no revelations but the feeling is mutual.

[Tcann32]

[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428596922' post='11319691']
[quote name='Tcann32' timestamp='1428595339' post='11319469']
[quote name='T.Beau' timestamp='1428593922' post='11319281']
[quote name='cliffhanger' timestamp='1428589379' post='11318625']
What if your miss was not a result of poor contact? what is a GI club going to do (over a Players cavity or a blade) that would change the result?

I love how everyone assumes a miss is caused by poor contact... all i hear about is correcting misses with GI's.
[/quote]

other than a flushed iron shot w. an unintentional open or closed clubface, how is a miss not caused by poor contact? fat shots are poor contact, thin shots are bad contact, toe hits are bad contact, etc,. btw opening or closing the clubface makes it harder to make good contact.

sorry if you think this post is trolling
[/quote]

That is not trolling in the least. Some of that is exactly what I've been talking about, just potentially on the other side of the fence. I can't keep track who thinks what besides the ones who haven't been exactly civil. Everything you listed is poor contact. But aren't necessarily the result of poor choice of equipment, and wouldn't be helped by anything other than swing changes.

I pull the ball with my mid irons all too often, but it's a swing issue, and honestly the margin of error has been much better since I started playing clubs that most on here would say I have no business playing, as an offset club face made it worse.

I used to have to swing down considerably more to alleviate thin shots when I had clubs with wider soles/less of a leading edge. My old clubs were just simply a poor fit for my swing. Aiming intentionally way left and swinging steeper were things I had to do to fight the tendencies of the clubs themselves, and I had to consider all that before making smart plays on the course itself.
[/quote]

well around here disagreeing w. someone is often considered trolling.
[/quote]

You are unfortunately correct. Nobody has to like or agree with anyone. Debating and responding in a respectable manner is the only thing I think anyone should do, and it's really the only way to convey an opposing opinion in a way that would maybe actually make the other person think about what was said.

[duffer987]

[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1428595936' post='11319537']
I have a second confession (the first being that I'm overwhelmed with all of the scientific jargon). I'm following this thread (not because I care about [s]eh[/s] the blade vs. CB debate - a Canadian slip ; ) because it's playing out like a serial soap opera. So many interesting personalities.

The thread has evolved into the blade debate on Coronation Street.

Much of the content is repeated, but I keep waiting for the next ridiculous turn.

In the end I hope there is something deeper to be learned, but I'm not so certain.
[/quote]

There isn't. And we don't have the Rovers to pop down to for a proper pint

[PeanutsDaddy]

[quote name='duffer987' timestamp='1428597764' post='11319799']
[quote name='PeanutsDaddy' timestamp='1428595936' post='11319537']
I have a second confession (the first being that I'm overwhelmed with all of the scientific jargon). I'm following this thread (not because I care about [s]eh[/s] the blade vs. CB debate - a Canadian slip ; ) because it's playing out like a serial soap opera. So many interesting personalities.

The thread has evolved into the blade debate on Coronation Street.

Much of the content is repeated, but I keep waiting for the next ridiculous turn.

In the end I hope there is something deeper to be learned, but I'm not so certain.
[/quote]

There isn't. And we don't have the Rovers to pop down to for a proper pint
[/quote]

See, that's what I'm talking about.

A civil debate in an English pub would be splendid.

I don't believe you'd change the entrenched beliefs in the thread, but we'd probably all leave a bit 'sauced'.