A sign of the times for Nike?

[AzPGAPro]

I was chatting with friends in the industry and heard NIKE golf has laid off 40 sales reps across the US! Many of the remaining reps will have "split" territories with other sales reps and now sell both equipment and soft goods versus one or the other. What does this mean for NIKE golf? I surely don't know, myself. Only time will tell. They will have to pay Rory & Tiger someway or another.

 

Purple Tide!

[PinonMagnolia]

Irons look good, but does anyone really take the equipment seriously when compared to Callaway, Ping, or Titleist? Drivers? Putters? Wedges?

[gioguy21]

my sales rep got tossed. great guy too -

i know that ping has the market share for drivers thanks to the G30, fairways are shared amongst the bigger names, irons are shared between taylormade, titleist, callaway, but putters are predominantly owned by odyssey, ping, titleist (SC)...and wedges are vokey, cleveland...

I know thru fittings that Nike has preconcieved notions/opinions to overcome thanks to the last two years of the turdvert and turdvert 2.0. The vapor stuff really is solid - it's just that companies who've been in the biz longer already have their minions. i know titleist and PING can sell clubs on name alone - nike isn't there yet. taylormade and callaway shot themselves in the foot with all these driver releases, even if it was with a bb gun. it hurt em but, not alot.

nike's producibility and product releases have been damaging too. it's hard to get ppl to try your product if you can't get reps fitting/demo heads. hell, i still don't have putters or wedges yet to let ppl try. (THIS frustrates me more than anything)

if i can't get it in the hands of ppl to see how good it is, why would they buy it off the rack?

[JWells]

I think they sell a lot of irons and drivers, but their milled putters have to be collecting dust

[DTXgolfer12]

Nike is starting to get the recognition they deserve for the equipment they're making. They make solid equipment. However they are limiting their market share by trying to stand out so much. They tend to make two lines of equipment. One for the mid/high handicap and one for the "better player". The flashy colors and graphics work for the lines of equipment that are marketed towards the higher handicapper. However they are REALLY limiting themselves marketing towards the "better player". Better players don't want 'new shapes" or "volt coloring" on their $1,000 set of irons. And for that matter - half of the higher handicappers don't either. They need to tone down the "look at me" color schemes they've gone with the last two years. Or at least release plain versions. If they do this they'll make themselves more available to every level of player. If they want to seperate themselves with image they should do that, and do, with their apparel.

[gioguy21]

[quote name='JWells' timestamp='1434479491' post='11763088']
I think they sell a lot of irons and drivers, but their milled putters have to be collecting dust
[/quote] milled putters are a tough market to get into - just ask cleveland. their milled collection actually had some decent feeling putters - they just didn't have any 'bomb' dots on them (if you get where i'm goin with this)...

when it comes to milled putters - the leader is obviously scotty. nike has a tough time b/c even though their milling is solid, they have the face grooves. some people just like the feel of milled steel and don't want to fuss with (even if they can't feel it) inserts -- which, some would say the polymetal grooves are.

even odyssey has had some milled putters - but realizes that their money makers are insert putters (perfectly fine, they're incredible at what they do) -- but nike coming out with a putter trying to rival titleist/sc is just, a very very tough thing to get into.

crazy thing is - the nike milled methods that are out there can still be had for a decent price, and people will STILL pay a premium for a new/unused one.

[Cuki]

The Tiger "effect" is pretty much over. In fact, it is almost in reverse the way he has been spraying the ball around of late.
You gotta feel for the reps when he shots an 85...you just know that is news.

[gioguy21]

[quote name='DTXgolfer12' timestamp='1434479683' post='11763116']
Nike is starting to get the recognition they deserve for the equipment they're making. They make solid equipment. However they are limiting their market share by trying to stand out so much. They tend to make two lines of equipment. One for the mid/high handicap and one for the "better player". The flashy colors and graphics work for the lines of equipment that are marketed towards the higher handicapper. However they are REALLY limiting themselves marketing towards the "better player". Better players don't want 'new shapes" or "volt coloring" on their $1,000 set of irons. And for that matter - half of the higher handicappers don't either. They need to tone down the "look at me" color schemes they've gone with the last two years. Or at least release plain versions. If they do this they'll make themselves more available to every level of player. If they want to seperate themselves with image they should do that, and do, with their apparel.
[/quote]

i agree with you to a certain extent -- on the colors. i think volt as an accent could go a long way - but not as THE color for the line. lettering? alignment swoosh...fine...but the whole cavity on the bottom is pretty friggin bright. if they did the swoosh in white, black pvd and had volt colored "vapor pro, PC" writing etc...it might have looked better.

they caught the 'we need a color to make us stand out' marketing idea from TM and ran with it (see: whiter is better, R11)

...but i disagree on the players not playing it due to colors. real players are playing these b/c of the performance...and could care less about the swoosh on the back cavity.

[TRoc9892]

[quote name='PinonMagnolia' timestamp='1434476739' post='11762768']
Irons look good, but does anyone really take the equipment seriously when compared to Callaway, Ping, or Titleist? Drivers? Putters? Wedges?
[/quote]
I do. Absolutely. I don't like to change equipment very often but I'll always look at Nike. And I have been ever since the VR line came in. That's when they fully caught up in my opinion. The original VR wedge blew me away. The irons were great and so were the woods. I've got the VR_S driver and it's staying in the bag for a good while longer.

[matchavez]

Nike's woods lineup has sucked for 4 straight years. I'd play their irons if they weren't so bright. The number font on those vapors look great, but they have had iron sets that were an inch longer than standard, and that was what turned me off immediately. I need yardage accuracy, not someone jerking around the results. Obviously that was on their GIs but from that moment, I got wary.

I owned the original slingshot irons... they really did have a winner with those. Everything after was too... XTREME!!1

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434477282' post='11762838']
i know that ping has the market share for drivers thanks to the G30...[/quote]

I had always figured TMAG held the top number of drivers sold with the SLDR, R15, & Aeroburner trio.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434480068' post='11763170']
...real players are playing these b/c of the performance...[/quote]

I think the high school and college kids get a good deal from Nike and TMAG. I think the pros play them because the pay is good.

[gioguy21]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1434480294' post='11763218']
[quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434477282' post='11762838']
i know that ping has the market share for drivers thanks to the G30...[/quote]

I had always figured TMAG held the top number of drivers old with the SLDR, R15, & Aeroburner trio.
[/quote]

they did...till g30 lst came out. even ppl who owned the g30 went back out and bought another one. i had a few long talks with the local ping rep (see him often at demo days) and he has, on any given demo day - a minimum of 10 g30 orders. minimum...

[nova6868]

If Tiger was playing well and getting lots of press, drawing younger people to the game, etc... Then that crowd would probably be buying lots of neon-cavity drivers.

As it is, they aren't exactly matching their product lines with the market. And the products (especially woods), for whatever reason, just aren't popular with most fitters. Whether it's perception, performance, or both... I'll let you decide. But the answer is performance.

The iron line is really nice, but unfortunately I think they just didn't line up with their target audience. The average guy buying $1000 forged irons may not want a big neon swoosh design.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434480491' post='11763250']
they did...till g30 lst came out. [/quote]

I'd have to see that in print somewhere because the TMAG pricing and incentive model keep people in "newer" tech for less cost. Almost every golfer I met on course is a spendthrift in some aspect.

I opted for a used Anser, after falling in love with the i25, and hoping for a little lower spin.

[gioguy21]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1434480685' post='11763274'][quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434480491' post='11763250']
they did...till g30 lst came out. [/quote]

I'd have to see that in print somewhere because the TMAG pricing and incentive model keep people in "newer" tech for less cost. Almost every golfer I met on course is a spendthrift in some aspect.

I opted for a used Anser, after falling in love with the i25, and hoping for a little lower spin.[/quote]
You wont. Wouldn't be printed till the following year, even still good luck finding it since the pr firms usually get wind of it and shut it down

[Titleist-Golfer]

Tiger blowing up and Rory missing cuts doesn't help.

Their equipment is getting better all the time, but the above combined with crazy marketing driven designs, steered toward grabbing headlines --- those awful looking wedges and paint schemes ... Ugh! That doesn't help.

[DevilDog]

Equipment sales are down across the board for every company. Nike is just adjusting to the current market. Hate that guys lost their jobs but the economy has killed golf and the economy still hasn't recovered to where golf will recover.

As for Nike itself, no one I know ever seriously considers Nike golf equipment. Indeed, my home club couldn't sell it and had Nike removed from the pro shop. All they have now is Titleist, Callaway, Ping and TM.

[SHIVAN]

[quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434480955' post='11763304']
You wont. Wouldn't be printed till the following year, even still good luck finding it since the pr firms usually get wind of it and shut it down[/quote]

Right but TMAG was solidly #1, by a moonshot, with Callaway trailing semi-closely behind. For PING to move, at least, two full spots to supplant both TMAG and Callaway would be a pretty Herculean effort on the back of a single niche model, like the G30LST. I'm not even sure they were #3 in 2012 or 2013, so it might be a full four or more spots to the top.

I'm sure PING is doing very well for themselves with that tech, their pricing and residual values -- I just don't see them supplanting both TMAG and Callaway for #1 honors on the retail market. Especially with TMAG being the #1 driver on the tours.

More topically, I don't see Nike woods move well in local stores in the metro DC area, and most of the folks I do see with them are generally a very well represented demographic here in this market. I would think that would be "a clue".

[eldog-in-the-hizouse]

Nike has some quality clubs, but I have heard time and again how the green grass sales reps continue to mainly push clothing and accessories rather than clubs. The clubs where I play barely stock any Nike clubs. Love him or hate him, I think the Tiger factor is very real as well. I'm not sure any company is just killing it right now though, Titleist just held a private fitting demo day at my club and only two people signed up... The industry is probably going to lose an oem or two eventually and I think they all need to forecast fewer sales.

[venturagolfer87]

[quote name='Titleist-Golfer' timestamp='1434480970' post='11763310']
Tiger blowing up and Rory missing cuts doesn't help.

Their equipment is getting better all the time, but the above combined with crazy marketing driven designs, steered toward grabbing headlines --- those awful looking wedges and paint schemes ... Ugh! That doesn't help.
[/quote]

Have you even tried those "awful looking wedges"? Because they perform pretty brilliantly and are better than any Vokey wedge I've ever tried, and I've gamed or at least tried every incarnation of the Vokey Spin Milled wedge since they came out. I think Nike is trying to attract people with its looks, so that their interest will be piqued and they'll try it and see the great performance. The problem is most golfers seem to be WAYYY too concerned with looks rather than performance, and how a set of irons "looks in the bag." Dunno how much that prettiness helps with the number on the scorecard, but I'd be willing to bet my awful looking Engage Toe Sweep helps just a bit more.

[gioguy21]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1434481504' post='11763394']
[quote name='gioguy21' timestamp='1434480955' post='11763304']
You wont. Wouldn't be printed till the following year, even still good luck finding it since the pr firms usually get wind of it and shut it down[/quote]

Right but TMAG was solidly #1, by a moonshot, with Callaway trailing semi-closely behind. For PING to move, at least, two full spots to supplant both TMAG and Callaway would be a pretty Herculean effort on the back of a single niche model, like the G30LST. I'm not even sure they were #3 in 2012 or 2013, so it might be a full four or more spots to the top.

I'm sure PING is doing very well for themselves with that tech, their pricing and residual values -- I just don't see them supplanting both TMAG and Callaway for #1 honors on the retail market. Especially with TMAG being the #1 driver on the tours.

More topically, I don't see Nike woods move well in local stores in the metro DC area, and most of the folks I do see with them are generally a very well represented demographic here in this market. I would think that would be "a clue".
[/quote]

just calling it as i see it, from the people in the market. FWIW, i had this conversation in the presence of a TM, callaway and ping rep.

[drvrwdge]

I think it just means there is less and less money being spent on golf every year and Nike being the relatively new kid on the block is probably being hit harder than the old standards. Let's be honest the average consumer that isn't on this forum buys for a completely different reason than we do. I've always laughed at the idea that marketing would in any sense effect any ones thought process when purchasing any item but the truth is for 99% of America it does and there's a reason "brand specialists" and those of the ilk are out there making 6 figures.

[LansingMI]

[quote name='DTXgolfer12' timestamp='1434479683' post='11763116']
They need to tone down the "look at me" color schemes they've gone with the last two years. Or at least release plain versions. If they do this they'll make themselves more available to every level of player.
[/quote]

THIS..... I love the looks, but cant stand the polorizing colors.

[SHIVAN]

Reps are reps. Their primary objective is? Move units. It could be true, it could be hyperbole, it could be perception, it could be complete BS.

Occam's Razor would dictate that a significant jump to capture back 25%, or more, of the market with just one niche tech would be too far of a leap. Successful? Likely. Profitable? Likely. Move them to #1 in retail wood sales?

It's not what I see on the courses as a prevailing wood in people's bags. You?

[ebn2002]

I just cant play a wood with a swoosh logo on the crown, and it seems like their equipment is really tacky/gaudy to me. I love the shoes and wear the lunar controls, hats and polos though.

Golf equipment sales would be doing a lot better if my local munis weren't all $45+ to play, and that's on GolfNow. Green fees are through the roof the last few years.

[SHIVAN]

One of the better players I've seen play in the last year had an all Nike bag, and nearly 100% Nike apparel. I would venture more a Nike fan than a performance golf equipment junkie.

[venturagolfer87]

[quote name='ebn2002' timestamp='1434482357' post='11763518']
I just cant play a wood with a swoosh logo on the crown, and it seems like their equipment is really tacky/gaudy to me.
[/quote]

Yet your RocketBallzzzz 19* is all class, I'm sure.

[gioguy21]

[quote name='SHIVAN' timestamp='1434482347' post='11763514']
Reps are reps. Their primary objective is? Move units. It could be true, it could be hyperbole, it could be perception, it could be complete BS.

Occam's Razor would dictate that a significant jump to capture back 25%, or more, of the market with just one niche tech would be too far of a leap. Successful? Likely. Profitable? Likely. Move them to #1 in retail wood sales?

[b]It's not what I see on the courses as a prevailing wood in people's bags. You?[/b]
[/quote]
i see more G30's than i do R15's or Bertha rev.47's....the populous on the large has caught on to TM and callaway --- a callaway rep told me he can no longer tell with a straight face to his demo-goers 'yea, this is better than the driver you bought last month' ....but like you said, reps are reps.

**FWIW - i know most don't know me on a personal level - but i'm honest/blunt - i think like a consumer first, rep second (not the other way around). i'm in the business as a second income...so i want to see the customer happy versus shoving product in their face. i'd rather be confident in telling them i know the stuff is good, hit it/try it, and let the numbers speak.

[pheenomz4774]

Nike will struggle for awhile because their core philosophy doesn't necessarily mesh well with the core philosophies of a lot of the consumers they are trying to switch over. Nike is trying to break in a market of people that "prides" themselves on exclusion and segregation. A few posts up somebody claims that their home club and club members don't bother with Nike equipment and the Nike rep had to leave. Nike wasn't in the original "gang" and wasn't well received. Even the very thought of a "Private Golf Club" would be totally foreign to the demographics Nike is usually trying to sell shoes and apparel to. They are in a much much different world selling golf equipment now.

This year and probably for the last couple years nobody can definitively tell you that the equipment is subpar to the rest of the major brands. But the vast majority of golfers are older adult males that seem pretty set in their ways who will use a whole list of excuses, valid or invalid to justify their opinions.