Billy H

[ChrisNH]

[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1434999338' post='11811830']
[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1434978995' post='11808556']
[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1434924983' post='11802590']
He said the USGA took out one of the skills of the game, putting, with their disastrous greens and I completely agree.
[/quote] You're simply wrong thinking that putting on poor greens requires no skill. Noticing and adapting to adverse condition requires a lot of skill.
[/quote]

LoL. nO.
[/quote] So noticing and adapting to adverse conditions requires no skill? Tell me more...

[Potatohead]

[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1434924983' post='11802590']
He made a perfectly valid statement when he met with the media. The U.S. Open is supposed to identify the best golfers of the week. He said the USGA took out one of the skills of the game, putting, with their disastrous greens and I completely agree. Putting is like throwing a dart with a fan on the side of the dart board. There's no skill to these greens. They're a putt and pray and that does not help identify the best golfer of the week. It turned the greens into a run of the green, literally. I agree, the USGA should be ashamed of themselves. With such a beautiful course you make the greens completely stupid. Way to go USGA buffoons.
[/quote]

And yet the best putter on earth won the tournament.

[ChrisNH]

[quote name='buckeyefl' timestamp='1434997518' post='11811528']
[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1434978995' post='11808556']
[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1434924983' post='11802590']
He said the USGA took out one of the skills of the game, putting, with their disastrous greens and I completely agree.
[/quote] You're simply wrong thinking that putting on poor greens requires no skill. Noticing and adapting to adverse condition requires a lot of skill.
[/quote]

You are high. You do not adjust to greens that inconsistent and to suggest noticing is the key is ludicrous. You are suggesting the best players in the world don't gave that skill because almost to a man they were saying the exact same thing. Of course maybe you know more than they do.
[/quote] Alright, erudite one... did all the guys making lots of putts just get good bounces? Did Loui shoot 29 on the back 9 by chipping in a lot, or did he make lots of putts? I saw loads of putts going into the hole and some pretty good scoring, so you're telling me that those who made putts showed no more skill on the greens than the guys who did lots of missing? It was all luck... Come on...

The fact is that to putt on greens like that you have to putt aggressively. If you want to die the ball into the hole they're going to get off line. The die the ball in putters didn't adjust and as a result didn't fare so well. There is clearly skill involved in adjusting to the conditions.

[bscinstnct]

Billy had no majors last week.

He has no majors this week.

All he has is a video of himself complaining to holly and another making some weird hand gestures.

What good did the complaining do?

[jvalhalla]

I'm not a Billy Ho fan but I don't have any problem with what he said. I'm so tired of listening to BS sanitized interviews from pro athletes. Listen to NFL quarterbacks talk...they say nothing. Pro golfers are normally worse. I want to know what they think...not what they think sounds best.

[Potatohead]

[quote name='jvalhalla' timestamp='1435024268' post='11815300']
I'm not a Billy Ho fan but I don't have any problem with what he said. I'm so tired of listening to BS sanitized interviews from pro athletes. Listen to NFL quarterbacks talk...they say nothing. Pro golfers are normally worse. I want to know what they think...not what they think sounds best.
[/quote]

I don't care what he said but his actions were a little childish. The whole fish swimming hand motion thing was bizarre, actually made me laugh out loud.

[zggolfer]

I've got no problem with Billy speaking his mind. This was the US OPEN. National Championship. 8 years to prepare and who knows what kind of budget, and they forgot about the most important part of the course, the greens. They had to know months ago that the greens just werent going to make it. They could have resodded them 6 to 8 months ago and pulled this off. Perhaps no one grows fescue greens sod, but they sure as hell grow every other variety these days. I feel very sorry for the golf maintenance staff at Chambers Bay. They busted their butts to put on a huge event that will always have the story of the 'bumpy greens'. Does anyone like putting on aerated greens? Hell no. To a tour pro who gets and expects to have good to perfect putting surfaces it must have felt like they were on aerated greens. If this was a tourney overseas what would the American viewing public say about these greens? The mental toughness of the leaders at Chambers Bay was unbelievable. Now perhaps Billy needs to work on that part of his game because the weather isnt always so nice at the next major coming up.

[bscinstnct]

Just dont talk!

Trevino on Jack,


"Jack wasn't going to give you very much emotionally. He was very hard to read. Knowing where a guy's head is at can help you. I'm a good observer of people and always could tell if a guy was confident, scared, full of b.s. or whatever. It helps when a guy talks a lot by nature. But Jack wasn't much of a talker on the golf course, and off the course Jack made just cursory small talk to most players. He called everybody "pro." It would be, "How you doing, pro?" "Family good?" "That's great, have a nice round today." The kind of stuff that doesn't give you much insight into what he's really about."

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/us-open/2013-06/us-open-my-shot-lee-trevino?currentPage=3



No talking. No tweeters.

Shut up and play.

[Potatohead]

[quote name='zggolfer' timestamp='1435025895' post='11815524']
I've got no problem with Billy speaking his mind. This was the US OPEN. National Championship. 8 years to prepare and who knows what kind of budget, and they forgot about the most important part of the course, the greens. They had to know months ago that the greens just werent going to make it. They could have resodded them 6 to 8 months ago and pulled this off. Perhaps no one grows fescue greens sod, but they sure as hell grow every other variety these days. I feel very sorry for the golf maintenance staff at Chambers Bay. They busted their butts to put on a huge event that will always have the story of the 'bumpy greens'. Does anyone like putting on aerated greens? Hell no. To a tour pro who gets and expects to have good to perfect putting surfaces it must have felt like they were on aerated greens. If this was a tourney overseas what would the American viewing public say about these greens? The mental toughness of the leaders at Chambers Bay was unbelievable. Now perhaps Billy needs to work on that part of his game because the weather isnt always so nice at the next major coming up.
[/quote]

It's like people think they made the greens like this on purpose. The greens started as pure fescue. Poa annua crept in, which is very common in these climates (see Pebble or a thousand other courses). There is a chemical to kill the poa but the course has not received permission to use it. The USGA and everyone involved wanted 100% fescue greens like numbers 7 and 13 are ( they were redone because they were really bad a few years ago).

Basically the other greens need to be redone and then poa must be kep out. That's a two part process, neither of which we know can even take place. The first part is a problem because this is a public golf course that makes the city money and they don't want to close it down and spend taxpayer money to fix it. The second part, we don't even know the chemical will ever be allowed to be used.

Basically if nothing is done, in ten years it will be poa greens.

[buckeyefl]

[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1435023840' post='11815248']
[quote name='buckeyefl' timestamp='1434997518' post='11811528']
[quote name='ChrisNH' timestamp='1434978995' post='11808556']
[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1434924983' post='11802590']
He said the USGA took out one of the skills of the game, putting, with their disastrous greens and I completely agree.
[/quote] You're simply wrong thinking that putting on poor greens requires no skill. Noticing and adapting to adverse condition requires a lot of skill.
[/quote]

You are high. You do not adjust to greens that inconsistent and to suggest noticing is the key is ludicrous. You are suggesting the best players in the world don't gave that skill because almost to a man they were saying the exact same thing. Of course maybe you know more than they do.
[/quote] Alright, erudite one... did all the guys making lots of putts just get good bounces? Did Loui shoot 29 on the back 9 by chipping in a lot, or did he make lots of putts? I saw loads of putts going into the hole and some pretty good scoring, so you're telling me that those who made putts showed no more skill on the greens than the guys who did lots of missing? It was all luck... Come on...

The fact is that to putt on greens like that you have to putt aggressively. If you want to die the ball into the hole they're going to get off line. The die the ball in putters didn't adjust and as a result didn't fare so well. There is clearly skill involved in adjusting to the conditions.
[/quote]

No one ever said all.No one ever said adapting to adversity didn't take skill. They specifically referred to bouncy substandard greens.There's is not much you can do to combat the luck factor when it comes to that no matter how strong you are mentally. I'm pretty sure that the best players in the world know that dying the ball in the hole on crappy bumpy local muni greens is not sdvisable but since you don't have an option sometimes that is what you are left with especially on greens where you go a foot to far one direction and the ball rolls into a bunker or 40 yards off the green.

[buckeyefl]

[quote name='Potatohead' timestamp='1435026574' post='11815630']
[quote name='zggolfer' timestamp='1435025895' post='11815524']
I've got no problem with Billy speaking his mind. This was the US OPEN. National Championship. 8 years to prepare and who knows what kind of budget, and they forgot about the most important part of the course, the greens. They had to know months ago that the greens just werent going to make it. They could have resodded them 6 to 8 months ago and pulled this off. Perhaps no one grows fescue greens sod, but they sure as hell grow every other variety these days. I feel very sorry for the golf maintenance staff at Chambers Bay. They busted their butts to put on a huge event that will always have the story of the 'bumpy greens'. Does anyone like putting on aerated greens? Hell no. To a tour pro who gets and expects to have good to perfect putting surfaces it must have felt like they were on aerated greens. If this was a tourney overseas what would the American viewing public say about these greens? The mental toughness of the leaders at Chambers Bay was unbelievable. Now perhaps Billy needs to work on that part of his game because the weather isnt always so nice at the next major coming up.
[/quote]

It's like people think they made the greens like this on purpose. The greens started as pure fescue. Poa annua crept in, which is very common in these climates (see Pebble or a thousand other courses). There is a chemical to kill the poa but the course has not received permission to use it. The USGA and everyone involved wanted 100% fescue greens like numbers 7 and 13 are ( they were redone because they were really bad a few years ago).

Basically the other greens need to be redone and then poa must be kep out. That's a two part process, neither of which we know can even take place. The first part is a problem because this is a public golf course that makes the city money and they don't want to close it down and spend taxpayer money to fix it. The second part, we don't even know the chemical will ever be allowed to be used.

Basically if nothing is done, in ten years it will be poa greens.
[/quote]

Not correcting them by putting in a proper putting surface (grass type) was done on purpose. No excuse. The part you are glazing over us the USGA chose an unknown course with unknown issues and gave it a US Open. They then purposely chose to do nothing in 8 years to correct the known issue which was 100% preventable.

Also everyone and their brother know the characteristics of those grasses and when combined aren't going to work out well. That includes the much bragged about USGA agronomists with deep pockets.

[vancouver81]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1435024056' post='11815268']
Billy had no majors last week.

He has no majors this week.

All he has is a video of himself complaining to holly and another making some weird hand gestures.

What good did the complaining do?
[/quote]I like Billy H and didn't mind the comments. But he looked like a petulant child and a spazz on the course Sunday. Like Bubba at his worst. He since apologized for that aspect of the day, so I'm cool with that.

[tstephen]

I played Pacific Dunes a little over 3 years after it opened and the greens were very good and Bandon's were great by 10/2004. I played Trails the first year it opened and the 3 courses in 10/2005 & 10/2006. The greens were awesome!

I played Chambers Bay 3 years ago this October, and besides thinking it was a goat pasture version of Bandon, I truly wondered and commented on earlier threads how the greens would ever come close to the fescue greens at Bandon.

That question was answered this week and Spieth prevailed because he is the best putter and convinced himself that everyone else playing would have a harder time negotiating the worst greens in over 50 years for The US Open.

[hogans71]

[quote name='fowlerscousin' timestamp='1434993374' post='11810832']
This is the worst behavior i have ever seen by a pro athlete. He shoots 3 under on sunday at the US open, which is like a gift from the usga, and he thinks he should of shot 63. What a piece of s***
[/quote]

I gotta think you've seen worse. I mean, cmon- any pro athlete?

[Matt J]

I thought is was fitting that BillyHo would be wearing gators orange and blue while acting like a total asshat. How do you say, par for the course?

[golfinray]

Whiners gonna whine.

Winners gonna win.

[4thand11]

The hand gestures on the course were a little over-the top definitely, but I don't get why a guy can't criticize a course if it's in poor condition? This is a major championship. Did you see Darren Clark's putt? Literally took a 90-degree turn at the lip of the cup. I mean come on.

Also a lot of Billy's criticism was about how bad the course was for the spectators - which based on almost everything I've read from people who attended, was spot on.

They picked a course that they thought would look nice on TV and would be quirky enough to stand out. They didn't worry about the more basic (and important) things, like greens that are smooth and places where live spectators can see the action.

[cvhookem63]

[quote name='4thand11' timestamp='1435074362' post='11818726']
The hand gestures on the course were a little over-the top definitely, but I don't get why a guy can't criticize a course if it's in poor condition? This is a major championship. Did you see Darren Clark's putt? Literally took a 90-degree turn at the lip of the cup. I mean come on.

Also a lot of Billy's criticism was about how bad the course was for the spectators - which based on almost everything I've read from people who attended, was spot on.

They picked a course that they thought would look nice on TV and would be quirky enough to stand out. They didn't worry about the more basic (and important) things, like greens that are smooth and places where live spectators can see the action.
[/quote]

Ditto. The man is entitled to his opinion. Some of his on course antics were over the top, and he has apologized for that, but he was saying what a lot of guys were thinking. The others just weren't willing to put their neck on the line because of the criticism that would come with it (see the previous 195 posts and countless media coverage.)

[Awsi Dooger]

Billy Horschel is a jerk. I didn't need the US Open to verify it. I witnessed it repeatedly at Doral in March, to the point I made sure to return to that tournament thread to detail it. I was not feeling well the final three days of that event so I didn't get a chance to make the lengthy daily reports I'd intended. Otherwise Billy Horschel's antics would have been a nightly feature.

Apparently he finds something that's the worst he's ever seen on a daily basis. I heard that phrase numerous times at Doral. Trust me, the audio is far worse than the video. Horschel grumbles after shot after shot, contorting his face in laughably pathetic fashion while describing his hatred for one aspect after another, whether it's a specific hole or hotel room or whatever. As I mentioned in that Doral thread, it reminded me of Billy Kratzert decades ago. He had a reputation as a nice guy off the course but get him away from the cameras on the course and he could get incredibly vile and unhinged when things were going wrong. Billy Horschel takes it to a new level. I never saw Kratzert make a fool of himself on national TV while shooting a closing 67 in a major.

Things like this tend to get properly sorted out. It reminds me a little bit of Big Break in which a player may earn an undeserved reputation early in the series, but give him/her enough time (episodes) and the truth emerges. Kudos to FOX for displaying the true Bill Horschel.

Thank goodness he didn't make that Ryder Cup team.

[tstephen]

[quote name='Awsi Dooger' timestamp='1435100631' post='11821902']
Billy Horschel is a jerk. I didn't need the US Open to verify it. I witnessed it repeatedly at Doral in March, to the point I made sure to return to that tournament thread to detail it. I was not feeling well the final three days of that event so I didn't get a chance to make the lengthy daily reports I'd intended. Otherwise Billy Horschel's antics would have been a nightly feature.

Apparently he finds something that's the worst he's ever seen on a daily basis. I heard that phrase numerous times at Doral. Trust me, the audio is far worse than the video. Horschel grumbles after shot after shot, contorting his face in laughably pathetic fashion while describing his hatred for one aspect after another, whether it's a specific hole or hotel room or whatever. As I mentioned in that Doral thread, it reminded me of Billy Kratzert decades ago. He had a reputation as a nice guy off the course but get him away from the cameras on the course and he could get incredibly vile and unhinged when things were going wrong. Billy Horschel takes it to a new level. I never saw Kratzert make a fool of himself on national TV while shooting a closing 67 in a major.

Things like this tend to get properly sorted out. It reminds me a little bit of Big Break in which a player may earn an undeserved reputation early in the series, but give him/her enough time (episodes) and the truth emerges. Kudos to FOX for displaying the true Bill Horschel.

Thank goodness he didn't make that Ryder Cup team.
[/quote]

No wonder he was acting like Tiger's best buddy and short game savior at San Diego.

[chfg8r]

[quote name='buckeyefl' timestamp='1434927721' post='11803052']
[quote name='prorobo' timestamp='1434922746' post='11802264']
Situation 1: Player gives cordial and vanilla corporate responses in interview ("Would've been nice to make a few more putts, just happy to be here").
Wrx response: These guys are robots and have no personality.

Situation 2: Player speaks their mind in the heat of the moment and essentially summarizes the vast majority of their peers' opinions.
Wrx response: He's a tool/fool/whiny b***h/etc.

Can't win here.
[/quote]

It's even funnier coming from a group who would make a 20 page thread about arriving at a course and finding out the greens were punched but they weren't told and their $20 prepaid greens fees weren't refundable.
[/quote]

You mean the same ones who b**** about patchy greens?

[golfheaven69]

He should have handled it differently but he was right.

[Sean2]

[quote name='golfheaven69' timestamp='1435106111' post='11822432']
He should have handled it differently but he was right.
[/quote]

Of course he was right. This is the new America. It's all about "me". If I am "offended" by anything, everyone else must change to suit me. If something is "unfair", than it must be rectified. Nothing is my fault. Personal responsibility? What's that?

"Deal with it." An archaic phrase used by previous generations when faced with adversity.

"Man up." Another archaic phrase referring to the fact that one's maleness may be called into question by doing or not doing something. A phrase use by many of today's modern males, but rarely understood.

"Mamby Pamby." The definition of many of today's modern males.

[f5joe]

Like stated above, he was right but poorly handled the situation. This will harm him more than the USGA.

[Matt J]

But, he's such a nice guy when he's winning.

[iBanesto]

A lot of pros get a lot of slack for showing little or no emotions on or off the course.

But when a someone gets a bit agitated and shows a bit of their emotions, albeit in a negative way, they still get scrutinised!

We need more pros expressing their emotions more often...

[buckeyefl]

[quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1435107026' post='11822518']
[quote name='golfheaven69' timestamp='1435106111' post='11822432']
He should have handled it differently but he was right.
[/quote]

Of course he was right. This is the new America. It's all about "me". If I am "offended" by anything, everyone else must change to suit me. If something is "unfair", than it must be rectified. Nothing is my fault. Personal responsibility? What's that?

"Deal with it." An archaic phrase used by previous generations when faced with adversity.

"Man up." Another archaic phrase referring to the fact that one's maleness may be called into question by doing or not doing something. A phrase use by many of today's modern males, but rarely understood.

"Mamby Pamby." The definition of many of today's modern males.
[/quote]

Still in denial I see.

He was right and only someone with an ax to grind or the far too common lack of ability to put themselves in someone elses shoes would say otherwise. He simply had the balls ( I am pretty sure thats the one of the words that comes to mind when you chirp on about manliness) to say what the majority ( I would go so far as to say 100% of the field)said ( including the leaders)or would say about those greens if they had the balls. Even Mike Davis said they were unacceptable AFTER the tournament. But you know better and you would have just smiled the whole time and been proud of the USGA provided such a quality product and would be happy you spent thousands of dollars to spend a week there after spending countless hours and dollars preparing and qualifying for the national championship. Thats what men do right? They bend over and take it in the rear.

But of course you didnt and probably never have done that but you know better don't you? You made one the stupid comments like others saying "Now they know what we play on" which is BS unless you choose to put up with substandard service of are filled with envy and jealousy and just want to see those spoined " they should try being a roofer" tour players. Of course you forgot those am's who don't make millions and worked on their craft, forked over the cash and had the priveldge to make it and then be insulted that the USGA's deep pockets and millions made off of these tournaments apparently didn't go toward basic things like the putting surface.

Now we stuck with what ax you are grinding. Jealousy I guess since Billy and many others didnt give up and tried to make the best of a terrible situation for golfers.

Now maybe you can explain which part was the players fault, how they take responsibilty for the condition of the greens and why its not manly to voice an opinion after wasting your time and money on what typically is a premiere event only to find that the USGA lied and only cared about one thing. $$$$$$$

Now how about you "man up" and stop pretending that you would be happy with those greens if you were to play on them and that saying nothing makes you more of a man.

[cxx]

The USGA really does not have the ability to affect a tour player's future at all. They are not going to ban an individual or anything like that. They can't do anything. Which is as it should be. They have been on a downhill slide for a long time. The only way they are going to realize how out of touch they are is if people point it out publicly. It's only public ridicule that will move them off the dime. I'm all for Billy's comments.

[denvergolf]

[quote name='buckeyefl' timestamp='1435142345' post='11824432'][quote name='Sean2' timestamp='1435107026' post='11822518']
[quote name='golfheaven69' timestamp='1435106111' post='11822432']
He should have handled it differently but he was right.
[/quote]

Of course he was right. This is the new America. It's all about "me". If I am "offended" by anything, everyone else must change to suit me. If something is "unfair", than it must be rectified. Nothing is my fault. Personal responsibility? What's that?

"Deal with it." An archaic phrase used by previous generations when faced with adversity.

"Man up." Another archaic phrase referring to the fact that one's maleness may be called into question by doing or not doing something. A phrase use by many of today's modern males, but rarely understood.

"Mamby Pamby." The definition of many of today's modern males.
[/quote]

Still in denial I see.

He was right and only someone with an ax to grind or the far too common lack of ability to put themselves in someone elses shoes would say otherwise. He simply had the balls ( I am pretty sure thats the one of the words that comes to mind when you chirp on about manliness) to say what the majority ( I would go so far as to say 100% of the field)said ( including the leaders)or would say about those greens if they had the balls. Even Mike Davis said they were unacceptable AFTER the tournament. But you know better and you would have just smiled the whole time and been proud of the USGA provided such a quality product and would be happy you spent thousands of dollars to spend a week there after spending countless hours and dollars preparing and qualifying for the national championship. Thats what men do right? They bend over and take it in the rear.

But of course you didnt and probably never have done that but you know better don't you? You made one the stupid comments like others saying "Now they know what we play on" which is BS unless you choose to put up with substandard service of are filled with envy and jealousy and just want to see those spoined " they should try being a roofer" tour players. Of course you forgot those am's who don't make millions and worked on their craft, forked over the cash and had the priveldge to make it and then be insulted that the USGA's deep pockets and millions made off of these tournaments apparently didn't go toward basic things like the putting surface.

Now we stuck with what ax you are grinding. Jealousy I guess since Billy and many others didnt give up and tried to make the best of a terrible situation for golfers.

Now maybe you can explain which part was the players fault, how they take responsibilty for the condition of the greens and why its not manly to voice an opinion after wasting your time and money on what typically is a premiere event only to find that the USGA lied and only cared about one thing. $$$$$$$

Now how about you "man up" and stop pretending that you would be happy with those greens if you were to play on them and that saying nothing makes you more of a man.[/quote]So dramatic...it was a golf tournament.

[Fairways_and_Greens]

Billy is the 129th putter on tour in putts per hole. This year and last.

His average for the season is 1.78 per hole or 128.2 per tournament.
His average for the US Open was 1.82 per hole or 131.0 for the tournament.

These "horrible greens" cost him 3 strokes over the four days. I argue that 3 additional putts over a US Open should be expected. Billy whining over the green conditions are a contributing factor to why he's 129th in putting.