Mike Malaska - Getting the club in front of you. Made easy...

[sethdavidsdad]

For me, I just feel like to start the downswing I let the club head get started getting outside the hands. It's a very slight feeling. Just enough to keep the shoulders from firing and getting the club head behind. The hands and handle can drop in then inside like he describes.

If I try to force the hands down then I get too steep and causes problems like the shanks. The standing the club up is done more with forearm rotation not pulling the hands down.

[SplashShot]

I tried what he taught in the videos at the range and started hitting everything fat, trying to slow down and keep my arms in front of me.

A little practice without a ball, focusing on the turn and standing the club on on the follow through, then I started hitting them thin.

A little more practice with syncing and I hit what could be called low punch fades.

Then I adjusted my stance just a little bit by flaring my feet out to help with my turn. I started to hit some really nice straight balls and power fades. I could even hit my driver again. I had the occasional pull, but I think I might have taken the left side out of play finally and significantly reduced my pushes. I stopped flipping.

I was finally able to swing what felt liked a slower swing, but I'm thinking things just smoothed out and my body is learning to work together.

I ended my session with these swing thoughts:
- Hinge (balance key)
- Pause (the club at the top)
- Fire (hands in, try to pull the ball left)

[Gamble Gamble]

So it is almost like turning the hands counterclockwise rather than behind you from the top?

I assume the secondary tilt keeps this from being ott

[sethdavidsdad]

[quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444674061' post='12446244']
So it is almost like turning the hands counterclockwise rather than behind you from the top?

I assume the secondary tilt keeps this from being ott
[/quote]
Yes the forearm rotation stands the club up. If the shoulder turn is too much too early it will cause over the top. Monte has a video on this also. Really this is probably happening all at the same time, but for me I tend to start too early with the shoulders. This feeling causes me to wait just long enough for the hands to drop(not pull the hands down).

[Slothead]

closing in on 50k hits, must be on target thinking for many.

[Slothead]

Whoa!!

even member #1 dropped by the thread. i had to do a double take on the member number.

[fore_life]

Worked on this at the range today, holy crap, what a difference! I play off scratch but I'm so inconsistent and I have lots of subtle little faults in my swing, so I'm really timing based. When I'm on it's really good, off its so bad haha!

Working on this, it felt so much easier to keep the club in front of me and hit positions, and just striking it so pure! Misses were like non existent haha, will post video next time I work on it

I wish I new how to explain better how much this helped me, it's like something just clicked, and though I've been able to play some pretty good golf at times, this is like the biggest aha moment I've ever had, I'm feeling like all this crap I've worked on is making sense haha.

I wish I could cuss on here, I am so excited to play and keep working on this. Even on those half wedge shots I saw some dramatic improvements, just feels like so much less effort to get it right

[TheGeekGolfer]

Played another round after working on this at the range last week. +5, 76, decent round with punched greens.

[Golfbeat]

The notion of laying off the club and coming from the inside has set back a whole generation of golfers.

[i*windows]

looks sort of really odd doesn't it, but this guy teaches some Good players; I don't think I've seen anyone explain the golf swing this way, seems so counter intuative

[FatReed]

[quote name='i*windows' timestamp='1444739953' post='12449408']
" . . . I don't think I've seen anyone explain the golf swing this way. . . "
[/quote]

This seems pretty similar, if not identical . . . inner circle and outer circle.

To my knowledge, Malaska and Hardy have no direct ties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izp9Jrirk1Q

[Gamble Gamble]

[quote name='sethdavidsdad' timestamp='1444674884' post='12446300'][quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444674061' post='12446244']
So it is almost like turning the hands counterclockwise rather than behind you from the top?

I assume the secondary tilt keeps this from being ott
[/quote]
Yes the forearm rotation stands the club up. If the shoulder turn is too much too early it will cause over the top. Monte has a video on this also. Really this is probably happening all at the same time, but for me I tend to start too early with the shoulders. This feeling causes me to wait just long enough for the hands to drop(not pull the hands down).[/quote]

I went back and watched a few of Monte's videos but the only one that I could find that had a similar move was the "How the Arms Work" video. He mentioned that if you are stuck, left forearm rotation to get the elbows closer together would get the arms unstuck.

[stuboy]

[quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444747329' post='12449934']
[quote name='sethdavidsdad' timestamp='1444674884' post='12446300'][quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444674061' post='12446244']
So it is almost like turning the hands counterclockwise rather than behind you from the top?

I assume the secondary tilt keeps this from being ott
[/quote]
Yes the forearm rotation stands the club up. If the shoulder turn is too much too early it will cause over the top. Monte has a video on this also. Really this is probably happening all at the same time, but for me I tend to start too early with the shoulders. This feeling causes me to wait just long enough for the hands to drop(not pull the hands down).[/quote]

I went back and watched a few of Monte's videos but the only one that I could find that had a similar move was the "How the Arms Work" video. He mentioned that if you are stuck, left forearm rotation to get the elbows closer together would get the arms unstuck.
[/quote]

Arm rotation was something I was really missing, caused big over the top, hit some good shots at the weekend focusing on it, also over did it and had some hooks. Will take time I guess to get it natural

[fore_life]

Same here for lacking the proper arm rotation. I would fold my right elbow early, left arm would suck across the chest, and I'd get across the line. Then I would turn open really hard and come down steep and ott.

Like easy said, the 3rd corner was the hardest for me to hit and Id get inside it a little bit on a few shots but even those ones were small little 5 yrd fades out of the center of the face vs my usual miss which is a toe hit slice cutting across it hard . Doing this coupled with some stuff Dan hs told me in the past just made it feel so much easier to get the club back to the ball in a solid powerful strike. I didn't video myself so I have no idea if what I was feeling is what I would see as far as positions or whatever, but my range session was one of the best I can remeber having.

I tend to hit the ball pretty high, but I noticed that I was hitting the ball even higher which was a little concerning, as my flight was higher than my little window that I'm used to looking up and seeing but the ball was just cruising, probably gonna have to readjust yardages haha!

Driver was crazy, I seriously cannot wait to see it out on course, I hit it fairly long usully and when I'm swinging well my fight looks way stronger, and this was producing results that were just crazy, spin was waaaay down and launch was higher but I was so excited about what I was seeing!

[sethdavidsdad]

[quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444747329' post='12449934']
[quote name='sethdavidsdad' timestamp='1444674884' post='12446300'][quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444674061' post='12446244']
So it is almost like turning the hands counterclockwise rather than behind you from the top?

I assume the secondary tilt keeps this from being ott
[/quote]
Yes the forearm rotation stands the club up. If the shoulder turn is too much too early it will cause over the top. Monte has a video on this also. Really this is probably happening all at the same time, but for me I tend to start too early with the shoulders. This feeling causes me to wait just long enough for the hands to drop(not pull the hands down).[/quote]

I went back and watched a few of Monte's videos but the only one that I could find that had a similar move was the "How the Arms Work" video. He mentioned that if you are stuck, left forearm rotation to get the elbows closer together would get the arms unstuck.
[/quote]
That may be the video I was thinking of, been a while since I saw it. Monte did not tell me to rotate the forearms coming down. He did mention it on the backswing. Of course looking back on my video from the lesson, I was getting the hands inside and down to early at that time, so he had me working on getting the hands out early then in late.
Golf swing is such a delicate balancing act. I can over do any move at any time. For me, I play my best golf when I understand what is going wrong with my swing and how to fix it at the time. I need a little of this then later a little of that. Hopefully I can start to understand when I will mess up before hand and guard against it. For instance, when the wind is blowing hard into my face I rotate my shoulders to hard trying to swing hard, usually gives me a straight pull.

[Slothead]

[attachment=2991272:tro.jpg]

[chigolfer1]

Gamble, this is like deja vu from a couple pages ago. You don't want to actually have the club "stand up." That is the feel and intent you want to counteract being too under and stuck. The result of these two counteracting forces is a perfectly on plane swing. I'm not necessarily saying this concept works but that, at least, is the concept MM is advocating and that he explains in various spots throughout almost every one of his videos.

Maybe you already understand this and we are just getting confused on how you're verbalizing it??



[quote name='sethdavidsdad' timestamp='1444607376' post='12443238']
[quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444605844' post='12443134']I was really hoping Monte or Dan would chime in here. I had a similar feel to this drill that I used before I got the shanks. Whether or not it is a false argument of causation, is up for debate.

I am concerned at trying this too much, it work as a band-aid and then I'm stuck with the Shankopotomous again.

Easyyy and everyone else I know feels are different for everyone but how do you stand the club up with out "pulling the handle"? How do you keep from yanking the ball left while doing this?[/quote]
I really don't feel like I try to stand the club up. Maybe you are focusing too much on that specific part. If you yank the handle down and try to force the club to stand up you will get shanks.
[/quote]

[chigolfer1]

Why does this matter to you?

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1444754745' post='12450582']
[attachment=2991272:tro.jpg]
[/quote]

[chigolfer1]

What if you have been OTT your whole life and have spent the last 5 years trying to come up with a new feel and entirely different swing DNA/concept to get shallow and come more from the inside?



[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1444732405' post='12449180']
The notion of laying off the club and coming from the inside has set back a whole generation of golfers.
[/quote]

[Golfbeat]

OTT is not a wrong move (it is actually preferred) if you combine it with a correct shifting of your pelvis backwards and to the target (to 10.30) in transition. OTT without a correct lower body move cannot be corrected by trying to just re-route/shallow the club.

[sethdavidsdad]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444755357' post='12450670']
What if you have been OTT your whole life and have spent the last 5 years trying to come up with a new feel and entirely different swing DNA/concept to get shallow and come more from the inside?



[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1444732405' post='12449180']
The notion of laying off the club and coming from the inside has set back a whole generation of golfers.
[/quote]
[/quote]
I would say OTT has more to do with shoulders/hips in [b]relation[/b] to the club. If your back is to the target and the club is OTT not such a bad thing. If shoulders/hips are over rotated early and the club is OTT then you have problems.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444755227' post='12450640']
Why does this matter to you?

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1444754745' post='12450582']
[attachment=2991272:tro.jpg]
[/quote]
[/quote]

He's just jealous that none of his posts have been received anywhere near as well ...

[gators78]

I played this past weekend and for about the first time all year I didn't hit one of my 'wide right going right fore right' shots. I was using my Zepp app (know it's not COMPLETELY accurate...) but even when I think of overdoing this move I'm still coming much more on the plane rather than way under.

Long story short, I'm sold.

[robbohank]

What I find interesting regarding this thread is the notion out there that there are no "quick fixes", no "band-aids", no "miracle cures" when it comes to the golf swing. Now that might be true but surely there's no disregarding the fact that a number of players who apparently come from both sides of the downswing plane who are having quite a bit of success with Malaska's ideas. Most golf instructors believe that the student should be hitting it better after a lesson and I would believe more importantly the student REALLY believes that.

I don't think it's the placebo effect in play here....... I think MM's image is simply working for a wide range of golfers with a variety of issues. The key is that you have golfers here who are willing to put some time in working on it.

[jbw749]

[quote name='robbohank' timestamp='1444763328' post='12451240']
What I find interesting regarding this thread is the notion out there that there are no "quick fixes", no "band-aids", no "miracle cures" when it comes to the golf swing. Now that might be true but surely there's no disregarding the fact that a number of players who apparently come from both sides of the downswing plane who are having quite a bit of success with Malaska's ideas. Most golf instructors believe that the student should be hitting it better after a lesson and I would believe more importantly the student REALLY believes that.

I don't think it's the placebo effect in play here....... I think MM's image is simply working for a wide range of golfers with a variety of issues. The key is that you have golfers here who are willing to put some time in working on it.
[/quote]

What he is teaching is definition of how NOT to handle drag. So of course the thread is popular. Handle dragging sucks.

[Gamble Gamble]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444754752' post='12450584']
Gamble, this is like deja vu from a couple pages ago. You don't want to actually have the club "stand up." That is the feel and intent you want to counteract being too under and stuck. The result of these two counteracting forces is a perfectly on plane swing. I'm not necessarily saying this concept works but that, at least, is the concept MM is advocating and that he explains in various spots throughout almost every one of his videos.

Maybe you already understand this and we are just getting confused on how you're verbalizing it??

[/quote]

I think I just missed a nuance and was assuming he was talking about "pulling the handle". Now I understand he means to counterbalance the right arms rotation with the left arms rotation to keep the club on plane. I think he hit the nail on the head because when I did some practice swings it felt like rotating the left arm from the top was less "flippy" and also got my hands synced up with the turn.

This game's nuances are funny at times...

[Gamble Gamble]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444755227' post='12450640']
Why does this matter to you?

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1444754745' post='12450582']
[attachment=2991272:tro.jpg]
[/quote]
[/quote]

He is doing this to fit his primary objective: to troll the pros that are popular on this site.

To him it seems if he can get another pro to gain favor with the other members of the forum, he can denigrate the position of people like iTeach, Monte, Waldron, etc.

With 399 posts of zero substance and counting since July, he is going after a forum record as well.

[sethdavidsdad]

[quote name='Gamble Gamble' timestamp='1444772105' post='12451920']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444754752' post='12450584']
Gamble, this is like deja vu from a couple pages ago. You don't want to actually have the club "stand up." That is the feel and intent you want to counteract being too under and stuck. The result of these two counteracting forces is a perfectly on plane swing. I'm not necessarily saying this concept works but that, at least, is the concept MM is advocating and that he explains in various spots throughout almost every one of his videos.

Maybe you already understand this and we are just getting confused on how you're verbalizing it??

[/quote]

I think I just missed a nuance and was assuming he was talking about "pulling the handle". Now I understand he means to counterbalance the right arms rotation with the left arms rotation to keep the club on plane. I think he hit the nail on the head because when I did some practice swings it felt like rotating the left arm from the top was less "flippy" and also got my hands synced up with the turn.

This game's nuances are funny at times...
[/quote]
A delicate balancing act known as the golf swing. I tend to live in the extremes with brief periods of balance on my journey from one extreme to the other.

[solarbear88]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444755357' post='12450670']
What if you have been OTT your whole life and have spent the last 5 years trying to come up with a new feel and entirely different swing DNA/concept to get shallow and come more from the inside?



[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1444732405' post='12449180']
The notion of laying off the club and coming from the inside has set back a whole generation of golfers.
[/quote]
[/quote]


Why are you OTT?

Likely because the clubhead is fighting to go behind you so you fight to fling it out at the ball. Your unconscious mind is going 'hey if I want to get the club out there I am going to have to fling it out and around.' So you are set up for failure. Your conscious mind is going do this and your unconscious mind is going nope you're nuts. How can you swing effectively like this.

If you can set the club up in a more weightless/neutral position or drop it into that position, like Malaska shows, then you can make a nice move at the ball without your 2 minds going to battle causing inconsistency.

There is nothing new in what Malaska is doing. Basically you are setting a nice left wedge in your backswing, then dropping it towards your pockets/toes, then letting it rotate through the ball. The only trick is to have it sort of wedge over those two points on the ground.

Video is proof. My bad swings are caused by standing the club up too far towards my heel both on backswing and front swing. I then unconsciously handle drag through the ball. When I stand it up in line with my toes, the handle line, the result is great.

[Slothead]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1444760935' post='12451030']
[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1444755227' post='12450640']
Why does this matter to you?

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1444754745' post='12450582']
[attachment=2991272:tro.jpg]
[/quote]
[/quote]

He's just jealous that none of his posts have been received anywhere near as well ...
[/quote]

impressive logic