Mike Malaska - Getting the club in front of you. Made easy...

[Slothead]

[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1442920642' post='12348950']
My guess is that they would not like to critique a fellow instructor.
[/quote]

well, monte just critiqued, or commented on, mark crossfield's EE video on another thread so it does happen.
http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1241034-crossfield-ee-is-really-just-a-high-handle-problem/#entry12357142

[BeautifulNice]

[quote name='lastmacuser' timestamp='1443026351' post='12356370']
I tried this feel and worked great for shots on the ground. Could not get it to work with teed driver or 3 wood. Anyone else have similar results or can explain why?
[/quote]

Wonder if it could be the hands high thing. Driver is the easiest club to miss hands high. I had to work a little harder to get the hands lower and in position through impact than other clubs.

Still working on it but the thing it does - for me - is eliminate flipping. Hands low makes it really hard to flip. Actually feel like I have shaft lean with the irons and a leveler path with the driver. Once you get the sequence right, you can really swing hard. I've gained a lot of distance with this, probably because I am a flipper/picker who tends to hit the ball low in the face anyways. That combo kills distance. This feels more like a golf swing.

[Stryker]

1. This isn't a swing, it's a small piece of the swing

2. If you don't get to a good position in the back swing or shallow in transition\early down swing, this isn't going to work for you

Carry on....

[QB74]

Slothead, there is no obligation whatsoever for anyone to comment. It's a free country.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1443035762' post='12357544']
[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1442920642' post='12348950']
My guess is that they would not like to critique a fellow instructor.
[/quote]

well, monte just critiqued, or commented on, mark crossfield's EE video on another thread so it does happen.
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1241034-crossfield-ee-is-really-just-a-high-handle-problem/#entry12357142"]http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry12357142[/url]
[/quote]

This is not the first thread in which you've requested Monte's comments. Why don't you just PM him and ask ?

[Slothead]

[quote name='Ghost of Snead' timestamp='1443036860' post='12357672']
[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1443035762' post='12357544']
[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1442920642' post='12348950']
My guess is that they would not like to critique a fellow instructor.
[/quote]

well, monte just critiqued, or commented on, mark crossfield's EE video on another thread so it does happen.
[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1241034-crossfield-ee-is-really-just-a-high-handle-problem/#entry12357142"]http://www.golfwrx.c.../#entry12357142[/url]
[/quote]

This is not the first thread in which you've requested Monte's comments. Why don't you just PM him and ask ?
[/quote]

i did not request his commentary, the OP did in the very first post, and there were some others also requesting comment.

[golfoh]

[quote name='Grayback1973' timestamp='1443033484' post='12357234']
[quote name='golfoh' timestamp='1443032095' post='12357028']I previously had a tendency to come in with the face WIDE open. From Monte's "how the arms work" video, I figured that I need more left arm rotation. My practice is only hitting 50 yards in the backyard and into a net, so I couldn't really tell ball flight. Contact seemed good, but after a while, I abandoned it because it [b]felt[/b] very steep.

The way this is presented make a lot of sense and a subtly different. My skytrak is coming in a few days, so I'm eager to work on these feels and get actual feedback.[/quote]That arms video by Monte is very cryptic to me.How can both arms be attached to the club,one rotating open and the other rotating closed? Seems impossible.What am I missing?
[/quote]

I actually used the feel of my elbows simply moving closer together. This effectively rolls the left arm counter clockwise and the right arm clockwise - just as described. Seemed to make sense to me.

[Slothead]

[quote name='QB74' timestamp='1443036221' post='12357606']
Slothead, there is no obligation whatsoever for anyone to comment. It's a free country.
[/quote]

for sure, so it is fascinating watching some of these threads develop- some in very predictable fashion.

[QB74]

[quote name='Slothead' timestamp='1443037651' post='12357748']
[quote name='QB74' timestamp='1443036221' post='12357606']
Slothead, there is no obligation whatsoever for anyone to comment. It's a free country.
[/quote]

for sure, so it is fascinating watching some of these threads develop- some in very predictable fashion.
[/quote]

I know you get your popcorn ready but why?

[Colby327]

I played around with this swing thought at the range over my lunch hour, and the results were better than I'd have thought. I tend to struggle with getting under plane (especially with the longer clubs), and this move/thought definitely helped. My shots were flying much straighter and longer. The biggest difference was my swing felt easier, like I had more space, and I could really unload on the ball if I wanted to.

The only negative experience were some random pulls and a snaphook (only with the driver), which hasn't been my normal miss lately (blocks have been)... So I'm not sure what was happening on those...

I think I'll need more time working with this move/thought, but I like what I've seen so far.

[TravAz]

[quote name='Amalaska5' timestamp='1442984673' post='12354356']
[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1442980401' post='12354184']
Looks like golf is a family business.

[url="https://youtu.be/Pxa2HhFQRfU"]https://youtu.be/Pxa2HhFQRfU[/url]
[/quote]

Thanks for the shoutout!
[/quote]

Welcome! Hoping it was my tweet that brought you here

[spacecraft]

Jimmy Ballard said Hal Sutton felt his left elbow stab him in the chest, that got the club in front of him, I use that feeling too cause if I don't I'll lose the ball to the right.

[lastmacuser]

[quote name='QB74' timestamp='1443032577' post='12357084']
[quote name='lastmacuser' timestamp='1443026351' post='12356370']
I tried this feel and worked great for shots on the ground. Could not get it to work with teed driver or 3 wood. Anyone else have similar results or can explain why?
[/quote]

The opposite for me. Driver spot on, most effortless swing ever, distance ok. Irons massive lost in distance, all shots as a low fade. Something wrong here, maybe not enough shoulder turn?!
[/quote]

We'd make a good scramble team.

[lastmacuser]

[quote name='BeautifulNice' timestamp='1443036122' post='12357588']
[quote name='lastmacuser' timestamp='1443026351' post='12356370']
I tried this feel and worked great for shots on the ground. Could not get it to work with teed driver or 3 wood. Anyone else have similar results or can explain why?
[/quote]

Wonder if it could be the hands high thing. Driver is the easiest club to miss hands high. I had to work a little harder to get the hands lower and in position through impact than other clubs.

Still working on it but the thing it does - for me - is eliminate flipping. Hands low makes it really hard to flip. Actually feel like I have shaft lean with the irons and a leveler path with the driver. Once you get the sequence right, you can really swing hard. I've gained a lot of distance with this, probably because I am a flipper/picker who tends to hit the ball low in the face anyways. That combo kills distance. This feels more like a golf swing.
[/quote]

I'll give that a try.

[robbohank]

I've reviewed MM's videos a few times now but hadn't had a chance to try the concepts out until today. At first blush I'm encouraged with the results. As a chronic under-planer this approach seemed to do a lot to keep the club more planed out for a longer duration of the downswing. Solid contact, no shanks, fairly straight results with some slight draws. If anything I think I need to be conscious of the shoulders moving a tad too soon which would produce a push wipe.

New camera on the way and hope to get some video next week. Although I [b]felt [/b]like I was getting over plane just after transition I think that feeling was actually what on-plane will feel to me. As some have said it would be interesting to see if MM goes this route with an OTT student. As one who gets under and draggy this might be the Rx.

[Fort Worth Pro]

In my experience most people steepen the club too much in transition. This might be a good feeling for some but the majority need to go the other way. The issue with getting the club under the hand plane coming down is the tumble is provided by a strong pivot that moves the hand path up and left. In the Jim flick school of golf that pivot isn't there to provide the tumble/beta torque.

[Hot Rod 71]

I struggle with the hands getting to high at impact and the club too far inside, just like Margarita in the OP's first post. Malaska's drill has helped me on the road the fixing that in just a couple of practice sessions.

For me I feel like I straighten the trail elbow in the down swing as my hands fall inward and toward the trail hip (the same way Malaska shows in his videos). This helps me keep the club in front of me and has improved contact.

[Fort Worth Pro]

[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1443053678' post='12359164']
I struggle with the hands getting to high at impact and the club too far inside, just like Margarita in the OP's first post. Malaska's drill has helped me on the road the fixing that in just a couple of practice sessions.

For me I feel like I straighten the trail elbow in the down swing as my hands fall inward and toward the trail hip (the same way Malaska shows in his videos). This helps me keep the club in front of me and has improved contact.
[/quote]

People with that issue usually are shallowing too late and are too steep in transition. This tumble happens but for most people it happens late with the pivot. If it happens early most people are toast. Here is an example of a kid I was working with today.

http://youtu.be/45zsPxUnzPw

[Hot Rod 71]

[quote name='Fort Worth Pro' timestamp='1443053980' post='12359202']
[quote name='Hot Rod 71' timestamp='1443053678' post='12359164']
I struggle with the hands getting to high at impact and the club too far inside, just like Margarita in the OP's first post. Malaska's drill has helped me on the road the fixing that in just a couple of practice sessions.

For me I feel like I straighten the trail elbow in the down swing as my hands fall inward and toward the trail hip (the same way Malaska shows in his videos). This helps me keep the club in front of me and has improved contact.
[/quote]

People with that issue usually are shallowing too late and are too steep in transition. This tumble happens but for most people it happens late with the pivot. If it happens early most people are toast. Here is an example of a kid I was working with today.

[media=]http://youtu.be/45zsPxUnzPw[/media]
[/quote]

I'm not sure I'm shallowing to late. I'm not very good at describing the working parts of the golf swing.

My swing is almost identical to the girl Margarita Ramos in Malaska's video.

[TravAz]

I beat my personal best on a course i play pretty frequently today by 5 strokes. Swing thoughts were from the video in this thread as well as doing Monte's zipper away before i uncoiled the hips (for sone reason I always tried to do it while uncoiling previously) .hit some pulls when I didn't do the "tumble".

[AntLockyer]

The 3 corners and a flat spot has totally changed the way I 'understood' the golf swing. I've watched pretty much every video and bought his book. I feel like all I have to focus on are my hands. The rest of my body just seems to do the right things.

[solarbear88]

[quote name='grizztrax' timestamp='1443022971' post='12356050']
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical watching the video, since I am already kind of 'over the top.'
[/quote]

I think people swing OTT as a natural reaction to fight gravity pulling the clubhead down behind you at the top. Finding the weightless position should help with OTT too.

I love Malaska's videos. He seems to be a natural teacher. Thanks for posting them.

[Mozza73]

[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1443083977' post='12360518']
[quote name='grizztrax' timestamp='1443022971' post='12356050']
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical watching the video, since I am already kind of 'over the top.'
[/quote]

I think people swing OTT as a natural reaction to fight gravity pulling the clubhead down behind you at the top. Finding the weightless position should help with OTT too.

I love Malaska's videos. He seems to be a natural teacher. Thanks for posting them.
[/quote]

He does seem to have an excellent rapport and manner in his instruction, I really love how simplified this makes the golfswing, I particularly like the way he describes it as controlling the momentum of the club rather than a swing.

I've now watched a few of his videos and attempted to swing the club in his method, it feels effortless and simple, wrists don't seem to feature in the swing, they merely seem to allow the weight of the descending club to bottom out at the bottom of the swing. Another observation is that the clubhead appears to travel in a large flattened U shape in front of me.

I'm keen to try it.

[Slothead]

closing in on 12k views in 4 days is impressive.

[grizztrax]

Day 2 of trying this feel, took a little longer to find it on the range. Irons were actually pretty good, driver not so much - everything was going right. After some more practice I realized I was so focused on the first two corners I wasn't completing my shoulder turn. Once I implemented the full shoulder turn, everything came together. I decided to take it to the course. I admittedly did not score well the first 9, but my ball striking was there. Lost a couple drives to the right the first couple holes, and my short game has been a bit of a disaster lately. The 6th hole it all started coming together and I started smoking some drives. I was even par on the back nine through 16 when I had to call it to darkness. That included getting home in 2 on a par five (driver, 3 wood) and missing two birdie putts inside of 6 feet. The driver seems to be the hardest for me to get rid of the old habits, but overall very optimistic.

Wouldn't dream to try and speak for Jim Waldron, but this does seem to jive somewhat with his teachings. The "going east" move he talks about seems like the second corner (coming down) and the arms "doing nothing" seems to align with the MM "flattening out" of the impact zone. Just an observation, would be interested to hear if anyone has other opinions.

[Jim Waldron]

[quote name='grizztrax' timestamp='1443104888' post='12361306']
Day 2 of trying this feel, took a little longer to find it on the range. Irons were actually pretty good, driver not so much - everything was going right. After some more practice I realized I was so focused on the first two corners I wasn't completing my shoulder turn. Once I implemented the full shoulder turn, everything came together. I decided to take it to the course. I admittedly did not score well the first 9, but my ball striking was there. Lost a couple drives to the right the first couple holes, and my short game has been a bit of a disaster lately. The 6th hole it all started coming together and I started smoking some drives. I was even par on the back nine through 16 when I had to call it to darkness. That included getting home in 2 on a par five (driver, 3 wood) and missing two birdie putts inside of 6 feet. The driver seems to be the hardest for me to get rid of the old habits, but overall very optimistic.

Wouldn't dream to try and speak for Jim Waldron, but this does seem to jive somewhat with his teachings. The "going east" move he talks about seems like the second corner (coming down) and the arms "doing nothing" seems to align with the MM "flattening out" of the impact zone. Just an observation, would be interested to hear if anyone has other opinions.
[/quote]

I think the most important part of that video is the very start, where he tells her that this is an "exagerration move". I think the distinction between exaggeration intentions and feels vs "model" or "ideal" mechanics gets lost in the discussions on this forum. 90% of swing corrective instruction is simply for the student to intend to do the opposite of their flaw, but not ACTUALLY doing the opposite, which would also be a flaw. Think of a one to ten scale. If the model is 5, and your flaw is 10, and I ask you to do 5, you might move to 9, still a flaw. But if I ask you to try to do 1, you will likely end up at 5.

The corner idea is similar to mine, the "going east" concept includes the notion that the clubhead makes a total change in direction around waist high on the downswing, like a planet reaching the end of its orbit away from the sun, and then turning toward the sun.

"doing nothing" with the arms means not activating the arm muscles to move the arms, or Triangle, independently of the pivot in the horizontal dimension during the downswing. The arms are moving, of course, but from pivot momentum.

[chigolfer1]

I'm not sure if I agree with this, at least not in my personal lifelong fight against an OTT swing. If anything, we OTTs need to be more comfortable with that heavy club feeling, not find a way around it.

I'm not sure why we are trying to make this applicable for everyone. As an OTT, I want to feel like I'm swinging like the "before" swing of this woman. The advice given in the video to get out of this motion seems to be exactly the opposite of what an OTTr should be thinking.

I was watching that Monte video with Brendan where they discuss the driver. In it, Monte says his "bad swing" is when he goes into right tilt early, gets underplane and stuck, resulting in hooks. His solution is to stay in left tilt longer. Is this not similar to this instruction? More importantly, he then says this concept would be death for an OTT. I am not trying to turn this into a WWMS thread but to highlight what some other posters have already said, that this might not apply to everyone.

This is just IMHO from a non-instructor.


[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1443083977' post='12360518']
[quote name='grizztrax' timestamp='1443022971' post='12356050']
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical watching the video, since I am already kind of 'over the top.'
[/quote]

I think people swing OTT as a natural reaction to fight gravity pulling the clubhead down behind you at the top. Finding the weightless position should help with OTT too.

I love Malaska's videos. He seems to be a natural teacher. Thanks for posting them.
[/quote]

[golfoh]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1443113630' post='12362036']
I'm not sure if I agree with this, at least not in my personal lifelong fight against an OTT swing. If anything, we OTTs need to be more comfortable with that heavy club feeling, not find a way around it.

I'm not sure why we are trying to make this applicable for everyone. As an OTT, I want to feel like I'm swinging like the "before" swing of this woman. The advice given in the video to get out of this motion seems to be exactly the opposite if what an OTTr should be thinking.

I was watching that Monte video with Brendan where they discuss the driver. In it, Monte says his "bad swing" is when he goes into right tilt early, gets underplane and stuck, resulting in hooks. His solution is to stay in left tilt earlier. Is this not similar to this instruction? More importantly, he then says this concept would be death for an OTT. I am not trying to turn this into a WWMS thread but to highlight what some other posters have already said, that this might not apply to everyone.

This is just IMHO from a non-instructor.


[quote name='solarbear88' timestamp='1443083977' post='12360518']
[quote name='grizztrax' timestamp='1443022971' post='12356050']
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical watching the video, since I am already kind of 'over the top.'
[/quote]

I think people swing OTT as a natural reaction to fight gravity pulling the clubhead down behind you at the top. Finding the weightless position should help with OTT too.

I love Malaska's videos. He seems to be a natural teacher. Thanks for posting them.
[/quote]
[/quote]

My hands and right shoulder usually move outward toward the ball too early, neither work down at all. Doing the intent Malaska presents is interesting because it gets my hands working more down and my shoulders stay closed a bit more and also keeps my right hip from wanting to fire out and get in the way. Standing the club up brings my hands down, and as a result, my body stays quieter and out of the way.

As he says - just because your intent is to stand the club, the reality is that it doesn't happen that way. In fact, what I've seen so far, is that the club ends up wonderfully on plane with this intent. I haven't practiced with it much, but it's showing some merit in limited attempts thus far.

[BeautifulNice]

[quote name='chigolfer1' timestamp='1443113630' post='12362036']
I'm not sure if I agree with this, at least not in my personal lifelong fight against an OTT swing. If anything, we OTTs need to be more comfortable with that heavy club feeling, not find a way around it.

I'm not sure why we are trying to make this applicable for everyone. As an OTT, I want to feel like I'm swinging like the "before" swing of this woman. The advice given in the video to get out of this motion seems to be exactly the opposite of what an OTTr should be thinking.

I was watching that Monte video with Brendan where they discuss the driver. In it, Monte says his "bad swing" is when he goes into right tilt early, gets underplane and stuck, resulting in hooks. His solution is to stay in left tilt longer. Is this not similar to this instruction? More importantly, he then says this concept would be death for an OTT. I am not trying to turn this into a WWMS thread but to highlight what some other posters have already said, that this might not apply to everyone.

This is just IMHO from a non-instructor.
[/quote]

Fellow OTT here.

It seems to apply because OTT for me is moving hands out from top of backswing which gets me in trouble (and I think Brendan too if you watch his swing). Dropping the hands after a slight bump to initiate the d/s gets the hands and the clubhead in a better position, with a better path to the ball. Malaska thinks laying off the club head leads to dragging the handle which promotes a flip at the bottom of the swing. Getting hands down early makes that a lot less likely.

It's consistent with Monte's bump/dump/turn but makes the dump part clearer to me.

But I'm a non-instructor like you so what do I know : ) Just makes sense to me and the results don't lie.

[Ristlager]

Tried this today at the course and had a range session afterwards. Got some good stuff out of it. Needs a lot more work, but that is what the winter session is for. Good to finally have a technique that is correct (hopefully) to practice. I have been jumping between different swing thoughts my whole golfing years.

It seems like I lose a bit of distance as well. And my main error is severe pulls with my driver. The rest of the shots where good. Some weak fades with the irons.