Mike Malaska - Getting the club in front of you. Made easy...

[sethdavidsdad]

[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1442876868' post='12346786']Would be nice to actually see her (or him) hit the ball with that drill[/quote]
Could be wrong but don't think you actually do this while hitting a ball. If you do this while hitting momentum will unhinge the wrist as he says in the video. It's just a feel for what the club would do without momentum added.

[Golfah]

Gave it a shot today because the video is convincing, but it got me all out of sequence. I think I have been working on Dan's mental image of right arm straightening/re-hinging on the through swing so much that this thought over-cooks it for me now.

[Hoot151]

[quote name='Fade to Black' timestamp='1442876868' post='12346786']
Would be nice to actually see her (or him) hit the ball with that drill
[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHv0D3tp-8o
1:55

The girl's got a swing.

[ROH1]

Tumble, no?

[TravAz]

You guys are missing a fundamental piece of this which was revealed on another video. Inappropriate for most WRXer's, imo:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcsvdsTQL5g[/media]

[eagle98]

Do you think Mike is discribing leadbetters A swing

[PepsiDuck]

The proper Monte video to reference is the "How the Arms Work in the Swing" video, where he shows that the left arm rotates to steepen the shaft on the downswing while the right arm rotates to shallow the shaft. People tend to have one dominant arm that rotates more than the other, so certain feels like the one in Mikes video are appropriate based on your particular imbalance. If your right arm isn't rotating enough as it is to shallow you, I sense this feel would be detrimental.

http://youtu.be/WrSSRIX_61s

[leegee38]

[quote name='eagle98' timestamp='1442882858' post='12347318']
Do you think Mike is discribing leadbetters A swing
[/quote]

It looks like the opposite to me. Leadbetter has the club outside the hands on the backswing, then shallowing it out on the downswing. Malaska shows the drill with the club moving outside on the hands on the downswing.

[dornstar]

[quote name='leegee38' timestamp='1442885012' post='12347520']
[quote name='eagle98' timestamp='1442882858' post='12347318']
Do you think Mike is discribing leadbetters A swing
[/quote]

It looks like the opposite to me. Leadbetter has the club outside the hands on the backswing, then shallowing it out on the downswing. Malaska shows the drill with the club moving outside on the hands on the downswing.
[/quote]
Yeah, no part of Mike's videos make me thing A Swing.

[CrabDaddy]

In the clinic video (post #22), he talks about matching up the swing components to each individual, but every other video I've seen he advocates [i]one[/i] swing. Hands close and stand the club up.
Not to say it can't be effective for a lot of people, but, considering he's dealing with a "feel", it seems odd that he has a rather narrowly defined model.

[Hot Rod 71]

Love it.

[just win]

I have a tendency to fire the hips early and leave the arms and hands behind. I tried his drill from the video and it worked quite well. Out of the bucket of balls I did hit a couple out on the toe after rehearsing the drill. I don't know what that means but in the past I would catch very few on the toe.

[jbw749]

[quote name='ROH1' timestamp='1442878321' post='12346912']
Tumble, no?
[/quote]

That's what I was thinking. Does anyone know if he was teaching this before 2011? Manzella was/is teaching this as beta torque and or tumble. Based off Steven Nesbit's paper on the hub path.

Malaska does a very good job explaining it.
Here's Johnson Wagner working on the same thing.

https://youtu.be/tDGiks777NU

[Millbrook]

As has been previously said I think the 'stand the club up' is more of a feel than a reality. However if you have been a shallow flipper then the club will be more up.

The thing for me is that it is more about the direction of the hands - more down than diagonally out and around. He demonstrates this when questioning the long drive guy.

For those who have lost a bit of distance could this be because it is new and you are not sub consciously committed to it yet - that is what it feels like to me. I have to go slow at it as I am trying to embed it.

The biggest difficulty I have at the moment is changing the mental image of the downswing - JW's swing map. It's going to take more video watching and slo mo and time to embed things but that's no different to any other swing change.

I think when I lost it at the weekend I got very steep - new move and old sequence I think - massively destructive.

[Dave D]

[quote name='Hstead' timestamp='1442859320' post='12345308']
I like this feel myself. Me and a buddy that is a plus 3 were messing around with it and both of us liked it. It actually shallowed my divots and I have been really hitting it crisply. I lost about a a half club but the flight is so straight. One of my problems is to get too under plane, drop the right shoulder, and then have to raise the handle and back out of it to make decent contact. [b]This feel helps me get my right shoulder out to the ball and keep the club in front of my better and not get under plane[/b].
[/quote]
Interesting as for me this is the feel I have that keeps my right shoulder back and gets my hands working down and away from the shoulder. My issue is my right shoulder moves out too much and pins the left arm across my chest.

[quote name='dornstar' timestamp='1442863977' post='12345664']
[quote name='BeautifulNice' timestamp='1442847135' post='12344024']
This is consistent with Justin Rose's drill and the drop hands thread a while back. There's something to it.
[/quote]
Yeah, I immediately thought of Justin Rose when I watched it as well.

I've hit a few more balls today with it and [b]it really feels like my arms work down closer to my body rather than flying away and the club getting behind my hands.[/b]
[/quote]
yeah feels to me that my hands are working much more in to my body, almost counter intuitive as it feels like there is less room, but there is actually more room in relation to the hands and club, if the hands work out to the ball you have to compensate to get the club on the ball.

[quote name='sheldonjhacker' timestamp='1442875627' post='12346694']
Doesn't this move prevent the right shoulder from moving out...and therefore prevent OTT ? Im confused. Seems to keep the right shoulder back...and delaying rotation until the hands and club are in front during the downswing. Thoughts ? Monte, Dan ? thanks
[/quote]
yes for me this feel helps keep my right shoulder back and gets my hands working down and away from the right shoulder much quicker.

[CrabDaddy]

[quote name='jbw749' timestamp='1442891896' post='12348230'][quote name='ROH1' timestamp='1442878321' post='12346912']
Tumble, no?
[/quote]

That's what I was thinking. Does anyone know if he was teaching this before 2011? Manzella was/is teaching this as beta torque and or tumble. Based off Steven Nesbit's paper on the hub path.

Malaska does a very good job explaining it.
Here's Johnson Wagner working on the same thing.

https://youtu.be/tDGiks777NU[/quote]
Isn't it gamma torque? What I got from Manzella was that it was a counter move after you get the club laid off with beta torque. Same move maybe applied in a slightly different manner. If nothing else, Malaska's check list of what to do during the half a second of downswing is much shorter than Manzella's, lol.

[Slothead]

[quote]Monte, Dan... Please tell me the swing works this way, because it makes a TON of of sense in my mind. [/quote]

still wondering if this is going to happen, or not.

[Golfbeat]

My guess is that they would not like to critique a fellow instructor.

[Ghost of Snead]

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mskq_hbXnH8[/media]

New video combining a lot of his others - IMO, what Malaska says around 7:00 about the getting the club to a good P6 position makes a boatload of sense and kinda mirrors Monte's video about the arms working together.

[27x10.5]

Great...All I needed was another video with the move that ties everything together and another feel to chase.

[MountainKing]

I really enjoyed these videos but I think a lot of this is just another variation of what Elk was teaching with his twirl from SITD and Monte teaches with his drills and I even remember a video from Butch and Tiger on the golf channel covering something like this. All really good stuff to get a good idea of what you should be feeling during the golf swing to get the club in the proper downswing path.

[MountainKing]

[quote name='27x10.5' timestamp='1442924601' post='12349152']
Great...All I needed was another video with the move that ties everything together and another feel to chase.
[/quote]


I've been stuck on a lot of Monte's videos recently and when doing Mike's drills the feel appears to be almost identical. At the end of the day it looks like they are teaching a very similar method just using different tools to get the end result.

[nova6868]

Wait, you actually understood what Elk was doing with all those weird twirls and wrist movements?

[Grayback1973]

[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1442926460' post='12349274']Wait, you actually understood what Elk was doing with all those weird twirls and wrist movements?[/quote]Elk knows all of the secret codes to decipher Martin Ayres teaching.I think they're kinda tight.

[MountainKing]

[quote name='nova6868' timestamp='1442926460' post='12349274']
Wait, you actually understood what Elk was doing with all those weird twirls and wrist movements?
[/quote]

I had to watch the videos more times than I care to admit but I finally grasped most of it after numerous viewings. The twirl move he talks about is the same thing Mike is talking about when standing the club up over the tee coming down. What Elk is suggesting is you get the arms in the right spot and twirl the club up with the hands so it sits in that position, same position and feel but Mike managed to simplify it so we can understand the process is 10 seconds. I'm probably the only guy on here who is an Elk fan and I enjoy the videos but never really implemented anything because of how overly complicated he made the process. Several guys in the past year or two have come around now with much more simplified versions of what Elk and SITD was trying to get out there so maybe there is something to it.

[gators78]

[quote name='MountainKing' timestamp='1442926338' post='12349268']
I really enjoyed these videos but I think a lot of this is just another variation of what Elk was teaching with his twirl from SITD and Monte teaches with his drills and I even remember a video from Butch and Tiger on the golf channel covering something like this. All really good stuff to get a good idea of what you should be feeling during the golf swing to get the club in the proper downswing path.
[/quote]

Just variations of the same idea, and more proof that being underplane/stuck is the big no-no.

[MrSurly]

[quote name='Golfbeat' timestamp='1442920642' post='12348950']
My guess is that they would not like to critique a fellow instructor.
[/quote]

They don't need to critique it, but they can give it the "WRX Instructor" nod of approval or just to say "yes, we are all teaching roughly the same thing, my method might work, but so might his. Try them and see which one works better for you"

[MountainKing]

[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1442928187' post='12349402']
[quote name='MountainKing' timestamp='1442926338' post='12349268']
I really enjoyed these videos but I think a lot of this is just another variation of what Elk was teaching with his twirl from SITD and Monte teaches with his drills and I even remember a video from Butch and Tiger on the golf channel covering something like this. All really good stuff to get a good idea of what you should be feeling during the golf swing to get the club in the proper downswing path.
[/quote]

Just variations of the same idea, and more proof that being underplane/stuck is the big no-no.
[/quote]

Yes - I think Tiger is proof that this is bad. I think what's cool about all these videos is they are promoting the same technique just providing different feels. Real and feel are not the same and the feel one teacher is working with may not work for you or me but another teacher showing something different, although the same, will end up working. If all these guys are trying to accomplish the same thing there is something to it.

[jbw749]

[quote name='CrabDaddy' timestamp='1442916545' post='12348854']
[quote name='jbw749' timestamp='1442891896' post='12348230'][quote name='ROH1' timestamp='1442878321' post='12346912']
Tumble, no?
[/quote]

That's what I was thinking. Does anyone know if he was teaching this before 2011? Manzella was/is teaching this as beta torque and or tumble. Based off Steven Nesbit's paper on the hub path.

Malaska does a very good job explaining it.
Here's Johnson Wagner working on the same thing.

https://youtu.be/tDGiks777NU[/quote]
Isn't it gamma torque? What I got from Manzella was that it was a counter move after you get the club laid off with beta torque. Same move maybe applied in a slightly different manner. If nothing else, Malaska's check list of what to do during the half a second of downswing is much shorter than Manzella's, lol.
[/quote]

I'm not sure it really natters, but in case anyone cares:
Hands in clubhead out was one of the 'breakthroughs' Manzella's site was talking about 4 years ago. He called it tumble on a account of the clubhead tumbling over the hands. This was technically called positive beta torque in Dr Steven Nesbit's paper on the hub path.
Now laying the club off would be the opposite and called reverse tumble or negative beta torque.
Sergio Garcia (Malaska uses him as an example too) was kind of the lead example of someone who lays it off (reverse tumble) then pours on the steepening late move (tumble).
Anyone who was a member of his site back in 2011-2012 remembers it as a pretty fun time. ALOT of it is rehashed in Malaska's videos. If you go to Manzella's site and search tumble, beta torque, hub path, Nesbit you will find every conceivable thing you ever wanted to know on the subject.
It appears Malaska's stuff started coming out shortly after that. I have no idea if there related and it really doesn't matter just an observation.

[Oz Max]

I'm impressed with the video, my pro taught me the exact same feel. It looked and sounded really weird to me at first, but I now realise the logic in it.
He's a TGM trained guy, but can really adapt his teaching style. I was casting badly and that's partly how he cured me, along with some other things of course.