@SecretTourPro Update on Tiger

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

I will join in a bit here. I do not begin to know the first thing about the different steroids so will ask a question. Why does Bonds for example get lumped into this? Is there not a huge difference between the anabolic steroids and others? For instance after lasik eye surgery I was prescribed steroid drops. After another surgery I was prescribed a steroidal cream. IF-and yeah it's caps on purpose-IF Bonds used only the "cream and the clear drops" how is that anything like McGwire shooting up anabolics with a needle?

The "cream" and "clear" that BALCO designed were not the same products that you were using. They were code words for anabolic steroids.

So in your opinion a cream that you rub on had the same effect as a needle? Or are you saying that in spite of all that has been reported Bonds did shoot up?

dan360 · February 23, 2016

+1 post count!

Man_O_War · February 23, 2016

Tiger never fully recovered from his first surgery. He has not been himself since the injury at Bridgestone, It seems his body has had a hard time healing. If this injury lingers and he does not return by the playoffs will the steroid talk start again? Reason being that steroids suppress a persons immune system and the ability to heal properly.
Tiger has never used steroids...he has too much respect for his body.
Haney and Steve Williams have denied his steroid use...and they would have added that to their tell-all books if he had.

Playing devils advocate, ever hear of some guy named Lance Armstrong?

Tiger has been linked to every PED supplier Alex Rodriguez has been linked to. Just saying, do we really know? His injuries are eerily similar to other known PED users. I don't care one way or another and maybe I am cynical but every one of these athletes linked to suppliers denied involvement. Most have been proven to be liars.

like who? all those tour players who have had back issues and had this same surgery? and taken a long time to heal? just ridiculous. Frankly, you do not know what you are talking about

Armstorng, Clemons, Arod, Palmeiro, Bonds, Kerry Woods, Mark Prior, Sosa, Brian Cushing, Julius Peppers, Ray Lewis, Marion Jones.

http://www.nydailyne...ticle-1.1860280

http://espn.go.com/e...tory?id=6743448

A simple Google search brings a lot of smoke which usually leads to fire. Just my opinion, not claiming to "know".

and all these guys listed had back injuries needing surgery? Read your own logic..."His injuries are eerily similar to other PED users" ?

many tour players have had this same back injury..very known in golfing circles. What you are writing is total farce

bscinstnct · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!

Can you name anyone who claims to have first hand knowledge that TW used PEDs?

Pretty sure every other athlete you mentioned had people who claimed first hand knowledge they used them.

Sixcat · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

tbowles411 · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

See above.

chris975d · February 23, 2016

I will join in a bit here. I do not begin to know the first thing about the different steroids so will ask a question. Why does Bonds for example get lumped into this? Is there not a huge difference between the anabolic steroids and others? For instance after lasik eye surgery I was prescribed steroid drops. After another surgery I was prescribed a steroidal cream. IF-and yeah it's caps on purpose-IF Bonds used only the "cream and the clear drops" how is that anything like McGwire shooting up anabolics with a needle?

The "cream" and "clear" that BALCO designed were not the same products that you were using. They were code words for anabolic steroids.
So in your opinion a cream that you rub on had the same effect as a needle? Or are you saying that in spite of all that has been reported Bonds did shoot up?

I'll chime in here. Don't know if Bonds "shot up" or not, but the products BALCO were distributing were delivery systems for AAS (anabolic/androgenic steriods). The "cream" was a testosterone cream (kind of like hormone replacement therapy prescribed Androgel) that administered testosterone through the skin into the bloodstream. The "clear" was a designer anabolic steroid, but I'm not sure of it's delivery method (absorption through skin, IM injection, etc).

As far as the cream and clear drops you were prescribed, I'd assume those were corticosteriods (like predisone, etc), to stop the inflamatory response of the body. Not anabolic steroids, designed to build muscle tissue.

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

My opinion is that is just rumor mongering. Like being associated with anything from TMZ. Report it enough times and it gets re-reported or reTweeted and voila, rumor becomes a fact you can look up on Google.

Sixcat · February 23, 2016

and all these guys listed had back injuries needing surgery? Read your own logic..."His injuries are eerily similar to other PED users" ?

many tour players have had this same back injury..very known in golfing circles. What you are writing is total farce

I wasn't referring to his back, I was referring to the soft tissue damage that has prevailed over the past decade.

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

and all these guys listed had back injuries needing surgery? Read your own logic..."His injuries are eerily similar to other PED users" ?

many tour players have had this same back injury..very known in golfing circles. What you are writing is total farce

I wasn't referring to his back, I was referring to the soft tissue damage that has prevailed over the past decade.

To me this is like all of the reports on baseball players that say something along the lines of "see-his body broke down as he got older-must be peds" . Except of course Griffey Jr was excepted because they all liked him. His career arc was eerily similar to the known users but I have never ever seen an article questioning that. I am in no way saying Jr used anything. Just saying that type of "evidence" is useless.

RVAUSMC · February 23, 2016

He may or may not be recovering but I tell you the man has no calves.

And weird looking friends. An "o" hat. That's just terrible.

I will take no calves to Nicklaus's voice....yikes...

Yes, but 18 beats 14 every time. :taunt:

twinkle toes · February 23, 2016

He was seen at his restaurant during the super bowl. Don't know how to post pics from my phone on here. But if you go to Instagram and search "the woods" under "places" a girl snagged a pic (although a bit blurry) of him sitting at the bar

twinkle toes · February 23, 2016

The more than likely answer is that the secret tour pro realizes that he/they have a pretty big following in the golf world...at least enough to stir the pot. And this now forces the tiger camp to respond. Next time he's in a public interview he'll be grilled by the media over all of this. All an attempt to bring tiger during his rehab into the light

Sixcat · February 23, 2016

and all these guys listed had back injuries needing surgery? Read your own logic..."His injuries are eerily similar to other PED users" ?

many tour players have had this same back injury..very known in golfing circles. What you are writing is total farce

I wasn't referring to his back, I was referring to the soft tissue damage that has prevailed over the past decade.
To me this is like all of the reports on baseball players that say something along the lines of "see-his body broke down as he got older-must be peds" . Except of course Griffey Jr was excepted because they all liked him. His career arc was eerily similar to the known users but I have never ever seen an article questioning that. I am in no way saying Jr used anything. Just saying that type of "evidence" is useless.

I'm just playing devils advocate, go back to my first post on the subject. I don't know who used and who didnt, none of us do. All I am trying to point out (again, see my first post on this subject) is for every ounce of so called "evidence" against his use, I can present so called "evidence" to the contrary. We can't make blanket statements like "no way" or "he couldn't have" or "he had to, look at his body". We just don't know.

bscinstnct · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

Do you have anything like this about TW?

>

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/2004-12-02-conte-20-20-interview_x.htm

In the interview, airing Friday night, Conte tells ABC News correspondent Martin Bashir that he created an illegal drugs program for Jones in the weeks prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Jones won five medals, three of them gold, in Sydney.

BASHIR: "Are you saying that Marion Jones was a drugs cheat?"

CONTE: "Without a doubt."

BASHIR: "Do you admit to devising her program for drug use?"

CONTE: "Yes I do."

BASHIR: "When ... did you start giving Marion Jones performance enhancing substances?"

CONTE: "At the very beginning."

BASHIR: "What did you give her?"

CONTE: "The substance called 'the clear' ... EPO ... growth hormone and insulin."

hell_is_chrome · February 23, 2016

He may or may not be recovering but I tell you the man has no calves.

And weird looking friends. An "o" hat. That's just terrible.

That's a Scarlet "block O". Dude is an Ohio State fan.

avrag · February 23, 2016

i love this. we've gone from arguing about whether TW will win another tournament let alone a major to arguing whether he's lying in bed for 23.5 hours a day. amazing how this guy moves the needle. why don't one of you non believers jump in your jet and head down to the bahamas to prove the STP wrong. oh wait...

STP deserves to be doubted in everything he says until he proves otherwise
Like predicting Ian Poulter going to Titleist?

Which really was a no-brainer, given IJPs association with FJ.

djmohab2 · February 23, 2016

I will join in a bit here. I do not begin to know the first thing about the different steroids so will ask a question. Why does Bonds for example get lumped into this? Is there not a huge difference between the anabolic steroids and others? For instance after lasik eye surgery I was prescribed steroid drops. After another surgery I was prescribed a steroidal cream. IF-and yeah it's caps on purpose-IF Bonds used only the "cream and the clear drops" how is that anything like McGwire shooting up anabolics with a needle?

The "cream" and "clear" that BALCO designed were not the same products that you were using. They were code words for anabolic steroids.
So in your opinion a cream that you rub on had the same effect as a needle? Or are you saying that in spite of all that has been reported Bonds did shoot up?

I honestly have no idea as to how potent their products were in comparison to intravenous steroids. I just know that the "cream" and the "clear" are not your skin cream and eye drops.

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

and all these guys listed had back injuries needing surgery? Read your own logic..."His injuries are eerily similar to other PED users" ?

many tour players have had this same back injury..very known in golfing circles. What you are writing is total farce

I wasn't referring to his back, I was referring to the soft tissue damage that has prevailed over the past decade.
To me this is like all of the reports on baseball players that say something along the lines of "see-his body broke down as he got older-must be peds" . Except of course Griffey Jr was excepted because they all liked him. His career arc was eerily similar to the known users but I have never ever seen an article questioning that. I am in no way saying Jr used anything. Just saying that type of "evidence" is useless.

I'm just playing devils advocate, go back to my first post on the subject. I don't know who used and who didnt, none of us do. All I am trying to point out (again, see my first post on this subject) is for every ounce of so called "evidence" against his use, I can present so called "evidence" to the contrary. We can't make blanket statements like "no way" or "he couldn't have" or "he had to, look at his body". We just don't know.

Now that I agree with. So personally I prefer not to speculate so no one is running around saying they heard so and so was doing "this".....

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

Do you have anything like this about TW?

>

http://usatoday30.us...interview_x.htm

In the interview, airing Friday night, Conte tells ABC News correspondent Martin Bashir that he created an illegal drugs program for Jones in the weeks prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Jones won five medals, three of them gold, in Sydney.

BASHIR: "Are you saying that Marion Jones was a drugs cheat?"
CONTE: "Without a doubt."
BASHIR: "Do you admit to devising her program for drug use?"
CONTE: "Yes I do."
BASHIR: "When ... did you start giving Marion Jones performance enhancing substances?"
CONTE: "At the very beginning."
BASHIR: "What did you give her?"
CONTE: "The substance called 'the clear' ... EPO ... growth hormone and insulin."

But.... but.... I was told in post #187 above that the clear was a designer anabolic steroid. Hmmm who to believe??? A random poster of the guy who made and administered it?

chris975d · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

Do you have anything like this about TW?

>

http://usatoday30.us...interview_x.htm

In the interview, airing Friday night, Conte tells ABC News correspondent Martin Bashir that he created an illegal drugs program for Jones in the weeks prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Jones won five medals, three of them gold, in Sydney.

BASHIR: "Are you saying that Marion Jones was a drugs cheat?"
CONTE: "Without a doubt."
BASHIR: "Do you admit to devising her program for drug use?"
CONTE: "Yes I do."
BASHIR: "When ... did you start giving Marion Jones performance enhancing substances?"
CONTE: "At the very beginning."
BASHIR: "What did you give her?"
CONTE: "The substance called 'the clear' ... EPO ... growth hormone and insulin."
But.... but.... I was told in post #187 above that the clear was a designer anabolic steroid. Hmmm who to believe??? A random poster of the guy who made and administered it?

I'm a little confused by your post...he doesn't say that the "clear" isn't an anabolic steroid. He just states that he gave Jones 4 different substances.

Sixcat · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

Do you have anything like this about TW?

>

http://usatoday30.us...interview_x.htm

In the interview, airing Friday night, Conte tells ABC News correspondent Martin Bashir that he created an illegal drugs program for Jones in the weeks prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Jones won five medals, three of them gold, in Sydney.

BASHIR: "Are you saying that Marion Jones was a drugs cheat?"
CONTE: "Without a doubt."
BASHIR: "Do you admit to devising her program for drug use?"
CONTE: "Yes I do."
BASHIR: "When ... did you start giving Marion Jones performance enhancing substances?"
CONTE: "At the very beginning."
BASHIR: "What did you give her?"
CONTE: "The substance called 'the clear' ... EPO ... growth hormone and insulin."

Simple answer, yes. His name is Porter Fischer. I am done with this topic since my "devil's advocacy" has obviously touched a nerve with you!

bscinstnct · February 23, 2016

Sure about that? Google can be your friend!
Because everything on the internet is true...just ask Google.

Not saying it is but Marion Jones was sent to federal prison in part by using some of the same information Tiger has been linked to. Congress held hearings using, in part, some of the same cases Tiger has been linked to. I will point again to the links provided in post #174.

Do you have anything like this about TW?

>

http://usatoday30.us...interview_x.htm

In the interview, airing Friday night, Conte tells ABC News correspondent Martin Bashir that he created an illegal drugs program for Jones in the weeks prior to the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. Jones won five medals, three of them gold, in Sydney.

BASHIR: "Are you saying that Marion Jones was a drugs cheat?"
CONTE: "Without a doubt."
BASHIR: "Do you admit to devising her program for drug use?"
CONTE: "Yes I do."
BASHIR: "When ... did you start giving Marion Jones performance enhancing substances?"
CONTE: "At the very beginning."
BASHIR: "What did you give her?"
CONTE: "The substance called 'the clear' ... EPO ... growth hormone and insulin."

Simple answer, yes. His name is Porter Fischer. I am done with this topic since my "devil's advocacy" has obviously touched a nerve with you!

Ahhhh, thank you, never saw that before.

And, btw, I thought my replies we courteous enough.

Par Fore · February 23, 2016

I will join in a bit here. I do not begin to know the first thing about the different steroids so will ask a question. Why does Bonds for example get lumped into this? Is there not a huge difference between the anabolic steroids and others? For instance after lasik eye surgery I was prescribed steroid drops. After another surgery I was prescribed a steroidal cream. IF-and yeah it's caps on purpose-IF Bonds used only the "cream and the clear drops" how is that anything like McGwire shooting up anabolics with a needle?

The "cream" and "clear" that BALCO designed were not the same products that you were using. They were code words for anabolic steroids.
So in your opinion a cream that you rub on had the same effect as a needle? Or are you saying that in spite of all that has been reported Bonds did shoot up?

Just to clear a few things up. The type of steroids that you used post-up, the drops and the cream are corticosteroids, these are a different class of steroid from anabolic steroids. corticosteroids are used to decrease inflmation and they can range form the hydrcortizone cream that you can buy over the counter to a prednisone pack that your Dr. may prescribe you. corticosteroids will not build muscle, those are anabolic steroids, sex hormones, that are given to help increase muscle mass.

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

I will join in a bit here. I do not begin to know the first thing about the different steroids so will ask a question. Why does Bonds for example get lumped into this? Is there not a huge difference between the anabolic steroids and others? For instance after lasik eye surgery I was prescribed steroid drops. After another surgery I was prescribed a steroidal cream. IF-and yeah it's caps on purpose-IF Bonds used only the "cream and the clear drops" how is that anything like McGwire shooting up anabolics with a needle?

The "cream" and "clear" that BALCO designed were not the same products that you were using. They were code words for anabolic steroids.
So in your opinion a cream that you rub on had the same effect as a needle? Or are you saying that in spite of all that has been reported Bonds did shoot up?

Just to clear a few things up. The type of steroids that you used post-up, the drops and the cream are corticosteroids, these are a different class of steroid from anabolic steroids. corticosteroids are used to decrease inflmation and they can range form the hydrcortizone cream that you can buy over the counter to a prednisone pack that your Dr. may prescribe you. corticosteroids will not build muscle, those are anabolic steroids, sex hormones, that are given to help increase muscle mass.

I am aware of that. Do we "know" what the cream and the clear were for certain? All players in every sport that have used a banned substance have been painted with the same brush. My point is that some banned substances are a huge assist potentially while others are not.

Judge440 · February 23, 2016

This thread should be moved to the Steroids forum.

Shilgy · February 23, 2016

This is a reply to Chris975D in post #201 above. PRoblem with too many quotes.

I read it as the substance-not substances. Meaning the clear is EPO growth hormone and insulin. That is what Conte appears to say. That the clear is made of those items. Not giving the clear AND those items.

Man_O_War · February 23, 2016

He may or may not be recovering but I tell you the man has no calves.

And weird looking friends. An "o" hat. That's just terrible.

I will take no calves to Nicklaus's voice....yikes...

Yes, but 18 beats 14 every time. :taunt:

aha ...good one :)

chris975d · February 23, 2016

This is a reply to Chris975D in post #201 above. PRoblem with too many quotes.

I read it as the substance-not substances. Meaning the clear is EPO growth hormone and insulin. That is what Conte appears to say. That the clear is made of those items. Not giving the clear AND those items.

This is totally off topic, but no, "clear" isn't EPO, growth hormone, and insulin. Those are 4 different substances altogether.

To "clear" this up, BALCOs "clear" substance is: Tetrahydrogestrinone. Quote from Wikipedia (other sources out there as well): "BALCO marketed tetrahydrogestrinone ("the Clear"), a then-undetected, performance-enhancing steroid developed by chemist Patrick Arnold. Conte, BALCO vice president James Valente, weight trainer Greg Anderson and coach Remi Korchemny had supplied a number of high-profile sports stars from the United States and Europe with "the Clear" and human growth hormone for several years."

The "cream", as I stated earlier, is testosterone cream. Again, quote from Wikipedia: "Testosterone Cream or "The Cream" is a salve that when rubbed on the body introduces testosterone, trimming body fat and building muscle. Though less effective than testosterone injections, "The Cream" was widely used because it didn’t cause a significant rise in normal testosterone levels when scrutinized by a drug test."

Having been in competitive powerlifting/bodybuilding for almost 20 years now, I've unfortunately been around AAS-laden competitors for a while. It's pretty rampant in field. That's why I try to stick to more amateur levels now where most competitors are clean and there isn't enough of an incentive to use. It sucks to get beat by someone who can throw $1000's a month at AAS/GH/etc. I've seen it all used, and most guys are pretty open about what they use/used and share info. THG (aka "the clear") isn't the same as EPO, GH, and insulin. Those are used in conjunction with it. Granted, "clear" doesn't have to be used at this level anyway, as performance enhancing drug testing is more or less a joke. Easily beaten.

Now, back to the

blblco02 · February 23, 2016

He may or may not be recovering but I tell you the man has no calves.

And weird looking friends. An "o" hat. That's just terrible.

I will take no calves to Nicklaus's voice....yikes...

Yes, but 18 beats 14 every time. :taunt:

Yea but 79 beats 73 :)