Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[touch]

 

 

  A Shirtless & Iced Out Kirk Cousins Was Dancing On The Plane After Win vs Commanders.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by touch

[touch]

28 minutes ago, scomac2002 said:

No other history buffs here?

 

I'm no expert, but this is a map of the operational theater of the USAAC/F 11th Bombardment Group in the South Pacific during WWII.  Red dots are targets and black dots were bases that the group operated from.  Most of the action took place across the Solomon, Marshall, Mariana and Japanese island groups.  Hence the One Damned Island after Another title.  

 

The map itself appears to be some sort of commemorative issue that detailed the Group's operational activities with the various statistics noted in the left margin legend.

 

Lots of familiar names there:  Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Rabal and Iwo Jima with the Marine landings from the infamous island-hopping campaign.

 

There aren't many living veterans left at this point.  An 18 yr old airman in 1945 would be 95 today.

 

Looks like there were 5 squadrons involved flying B-17's from 41-43 and then B-24's from 43-45.

 

You'll note that Guam was a target that was bombed.  After the US regained control of the island they flew B-29's , including Enola Gay, from that airfield in 1945.

 

 

 

 

Many thanks Mr. scomac. ⭐

 

 

[touch]

 

 

Man what a seedy bunch of old farts that succeeded in sucking me into their club back in early August of 2022. 

 

Quality entertainment is quite plentiful here in the Grille, it didn't take much brainwashing. 🙂

 

 

[BIG STU]

7 hours ago, nitram said:

My favorite, all-time is the FT-9TA. I'd still be bagging one if I could keep it in one piece. I busted 3 at the seams before giving up and moving on.

LOL I should be ok since I do not swing hard enough any more to crack an egg

[BIG STU]

3 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

No other history buffs here?

 

I'm no expert, but this is a map of the operational theater of the USAAC/F 11th Bombardment Group in the South Pacific during WWII.  Red dots are targets and black dots were bases that the group operated from.  Most of the action took place across the Solomon, Marshall, Mariana and Japanese island groups.  Hence the One Damned Island after Another title.  

 

The map itself appears to be some sort of commemorative issue that detailed the Group's operational activities with the various statistics noted in the left margin legend.

 

Lots of familiar names there:  Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Rabal and Iwo Jima with the Marine landings from the infamous island-hopping campaign.

 

There aren't many living veterans left at this point.  An 18 yr old airman in 1945 would be 95 today.

 

Looks like there were 5 squadrons involved flying B-17's from 41-43 and then B-24's from 43-45.

 

You'll note that Guam was a target that was bombed.  After the US regained control of the island they flew B-29's , including Enola Gay, from that airfield in 1945.

 

 

You beat me to it and summed it up pretty well. I will add a little bit though. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor in 41 they were of the thought we could never get close enough to bomb their homeland. They knew the capalibility of our bombers at the time. They had fortified those islands as part of that plan. They got a small dose of reality in the Doolittle raid in 42 where we launched light duty bombers off our carriers. As far as actual damage it was minimul but the psycological avantage was there. Of course the Japanese are smart and figured out the planes were carrier launched. The really fortified those islands. According to what I have read we went to the plan of taking those islands for air bases to bomb Japan. Which in due time we gradually wore them down and you alluded to the rest.

I had a friend that lived on the other side of the circle from me. He passed probably 10 years ago now at around 95 YOA. We shared the same last name but were not really kin as far as we could tell. He was a retired Marine and fought there in WW II. He was also a Korean Veteran and early Nam Veteran. I used to go up on his porch and sit and talk about the wars he had been in. He could tell you some details on all 3. I know he had a boatload of metals including I am thinking 2 or 3 purple hearts and like a bronze star with I think 3 oak clusters. I know he told me that he had quit school and Joined the Marines just before the start of WW II. He served some 35 years. LOL he was pissed because they made him retire. The map Touch showed he also had one just like it. I remember he had a poster framed that said--

When I get to Heaven to St Peter I will tell him I am a GI

Reporting Sir I have spent my time in hell

US Marine Corps 1940 to 1975

Yep not many of those guys left--- I feel privilaged to have met him and conversed for a few years and we did share the same last name. All honestly he did not give me any crap about being a swabbie either. He would honestly say that they could not have been able to do their job without the Navy.

[Hankshank]

1 hour ago, BIG STU said:

You beat me to it and summed it up pretty well. I will add a little bit though. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor in 41 they were of the thought we could never get close enough to bomb their homeland. They knew the capalibility of our bombers at the time. They had fortified those islands as part of that plan. They got a small dose of reality in the Doolittle raid in 42 where we launched light duty bombers off our carriers. As far as actual damage it was minimul but the psycological avantage was there. Of course the Japanese are smart and figured out the planes were carrier launched. The really fortified those islands. According to what I have read we went to the plan of taking those islands for air bases to bomb Japan. Which in due time we gradually wore them down and you alluded to the rest.

I had a friend that lived on the other side of the circle from me. He passed probably 10 years ago now at around 95 YOA. We shared the same last name but were not really kin as far as we could tell. He was a retired Marine and fought there in WW II. He was also a Korean Veteran and early Nam Veteran. I used to go up on his porch and sit and talk about the wars he had been in. He could tell you some details on all 3. I know he had a boatload of metals including I am thinking 2 or 3 purple hearts and like a bronze star with I think 3 oak clusters. I know he told me that he had quit school and Joined the Marines just before the start of WW II. He served some 35 years. LOL he was pissed because they made him retire. The map Touch showed he also had one just like it. I remember he had a poster framed that said--

When I get to Heaven to St Peter I will tell him I am a GI

Reporting Sir I have spent my time in hell

US Marine Corps 1940 to 1975

Yep not many of those guys left--- I feel privilaged to have met him and conversed for a few years and we did share the same last name. All honestly he did not give me any crap about being a swabbie either. He would honestly say that they could not have been able to do their job without the Navy.

Really interesting to read that. Except for some guys that have been on UN duty few from my scandinavian homeland have - fortunately - seen war. WWII was all around us, in Denmark, Norway, Finland and most men, both my grandfathers, were called in for service. Then the cold war and I did a year of military service, and being a neighbor of the Soviet Union pre-Gorbatjov at the time I did my year things did not seem too stable. Soviet submarines in our waters and what not. Now things are a bit shaky again and there is a limited draft again. But our army is a far cry of the 80´s one. 

[Hankshank]

5 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

No other history buffs here?

 

I'm no expert, but this is a map of the operational theater of the USAAC/F 11th Bombardment Group in the South Pacific during WWII.  Red dots are targets and black dots were bases that the group operated from.  Most of the action took place across the Solomon, Marshall, Mariana and Japanese island groups.  Hence the One Damned Island after Another title.  

 

The map itself appears to be some sort of commemorative issue that detailed the Group's operational activities with the various statistics noted in the left margin legend.

 

Lots of familiar names there:  Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Rabal and Iwo Jima with the Marine landings from the infamous island-hopping campaign.

 

There aren't many living veterans left at this point.  An 18 yr old airman in 1945 would be 95 today.

 

Looks like there were 5 squadrons involved flying B-17's from 41-43 and then B-24's from 43-45.

 

You'll note that Guam was a target that was bombed.  After the US regained control of the island they flew B-29's , including Enola Gay, from that airfield in 1945.

 

 

One other here, I've always been really interested in history, both in my scandinavian homeland and the rest of the world. WWII is as terrifying as interesting, one do have mixed emotions reading about the proceedings, guess evolutionary we´re the mean guys left, the nice guys, well we have done away with those over the millenias... that said, I was just seeing some documentaries about Midway. One have to be fascinated with the way it evolved, Japan doing great in the beginning, but then a sqadron of bombers found a way to the Japanese aircraft carriers by tailing Japan planes going back, and the squadron leader basically sunk a carrier (akagi or kaga i don't remember) with one bomb that pierced down to where fully loaded planes were jammed and exploded.

Of course terrible to imagine what it was like for the japan sailors, but still a touch of heroics, the result was a severe blow for the japanese fleet. 

[Fellaheen51]

Respect to those that have honorably served in the armed forces on this Veterans Day.  

 

A golf course that I would like to play one day.  Beyond the golf part.  

 

https://americandunesgolfclub.com

[Pastit]

2 hours ago, Hankshank said:

Really interesting to read that. Except for some guys that have been on UN duty few from my scandinavian homeland have - fortunately - seen war. WWII was all around us, in Denmark, Norway, Finland and most men, both my grandfathers, were called in for service. Then the cold war and I did a year of military service, and being a neighbor of the Soviet Union pre-Gorbatjov at the time I did my year things did not seem too stable. Soviet submarines in our waters and what not. Now things are a bit shaky again and there is a limited draft again. But our army is a far cry of the 80´s one. 

I’ve fished in Finnmark a few times and in the Murman ( Kola ), no golf of course. 
 

I saw an old Russian “ Yak “ fighter in the Kirkenes Museum. These are being dug up all over the place for some unknown reason. What really hits home is the fact that some 500 or 900 Russians had to live in a coal mine up there for c 2 years post 1945. And some in the U.K. think their lives are hard. It was “ bomb alley “ in the Barents’ Sea in WW11 on the convoy route and the reason there are airports in Finnmark and Troms.

[Fellaheen51]

7 hours ago, touch said:

 

 

  A Shirtless & Iced Out Kirk Cousins Was Dancing On The Plane After Win vs Commanders.

 

 

And then MNF did this.  😄

 

 

 

 

Scratched my head when I saw this earlier in the week.  KC boogalooing in Mr T chains.  What was that all about?  You posted a W against the Commanders.  Big deal.  Anyhow.  

 

I reference a decade plus back.  Representing the players, Kirk Cousins' speech at the 2011 B1G Kickoff luncheon.  A proud to be a Spartan moment.  

 

 

And yes.   Will be watching the Armed Forces Classic BB game tonight.  On the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln.  MSU v. Gonzaga.  Go Green.  

[Fellaheen51]

8 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

No other history buffs here?

 

I'm no expert, but this is a map of the operational theater of the USAAC/F 11th Bombardment Group in the South Pacific during WWII.  Red dots are targets and black dots were bases that the group operated from.  Most of the action took place across the Solomon, Marshall, Mariana and Japanese island groups.  Hence the One Damned Island after Another title.  

 

The map itself appears to be some sort of commemorative issue that detailed the Group's operational activities with the various statistics noted in the left margin legend.

 

Lots of familiar names there:  Guadalcanal, Bougainville, Rabal and Iwo Jima with the Marine landings from the infamous island-hopping campaign.

 

There aren't many living veterans left at this point.  An 18 yr old airman in 1945 would be 95 today.

 

Looks like there were 5 squadrons involved flying B-17's from 41-43 and then B-24's from 43-45.

 

You'll note that Guam was a target that was bombed.  After the US regained control of the island they flew B-29's , including Enola Gay, from that airfield in 1945.

 

 

 

Good stuff Sco.  Beyond a like, you get 👍👍 from me.  

[BIG STU]

11 hours ago, touch said:

And when the Seafoam look became passe' the American ladies began to demand avocado. 

 

 

 

Or the gals that didn't dig the green went with Harvest Yellow.

 

 

 

My wife watches all of these home shows. Americans are the most wasteful people in the world IMHO. I have seen people throw out perfectly good working appliances because they did not like the color. They sell appliance enamel at Home Depot everyday. When we first got this place it was a vacation home. Of course the wife did not like the Avacado appliances but they worked perfect. She wanted to replace them because of the color. I told her not no but hell no!!! I came down one weekend when she worked. I went to Home Depot and got appliance enamel and painted the stuff white.  In our 21 years here they have of course petered out and have been replaced with white stuff like she wanted to begin with. I guess I may come off as a cheap SOB. I think of myself as frugal I took it from my grandparents who lived and farmed during the depression and WW 2. When I was racing I did not buy high dollar parts I made a lot of my stuff like coil overs etc. Now I will stress here I never ever compromised on safety period. In golf you guys know darn well what I do. Yesterday because it was raining I went to the PGASS and did some driver hitting. Left those guys scratching their heads over the fact for some reason I was putting up better numbers with the 8 year old Cally Alpha than the new stuff. I know my swing and my limitations. But yes I am frugal and that is one of the reasons we both could retire and live happily at age 62. Not extravagant but comfortable. 

[Soloman1]

9 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

After the US regained control of the island they flew B-29's , including Enola Gay, from that airfield in 1945.

 

Just a small note. Enola Gay went from the factory in New Mexico to Tinian in the Mariana Islands, not Guam. It only flew two missions, the one to Hiroshima and the other as a weather observer ahead of the mission to Nagasaki. It participated in the Bikini Atoll tests later.

 

It was built specifically for its first mission and Tinian was the only airfield with the facilities to load Little Boy and Fat Man, the two distinctly different devices used in the war.

[scomac2002]

2 minutes ago, Soloman1 said:

 

Just a small note. Enola Gay went from the factory in New Mexico to Tinian in the Mariana Islands, not Guam. It only flew two missions, the one to Hiroshima and the other as a weather observer ahead of the mission to Nagasaki. It participated in the Bikini Atoll tests later.

 

It was built specifically for its first mission and Tinian was the only airfield with the facilities to load Little Boy and Fat Man, the two distinctly different devices used in the war.

 

Thanks for the clarification.  Here's a great little article I found online about the B-29 bases at Tinian.

 

10 Amazing pictures of Tinians MASSIVE B-29 Bases and one picture to make you cry! (warhistoryonline.com)

 

Here's another piece on the history of the 11th Bombardment Group.

 

11th Bombardment Group Heavy (H) "The Grey Geese" (11thbombgroup.org)

 

 

 

 

[touch]

After the war my father returned back to the States and continued his education. 

Worth Percival was a mechanical engineer by profession and held a Master's Degree from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. He was fist employed as an engineer by General Motors in 1947. 

Worth is on the right.

Thank you dad for your military service. Thank you dad for being an outstanding mechanical engineer that had a long and successful career with numerous companies. Thank you dad for providing a fine upbringing for Lisa and myself.

I'll be up for my seasonal visit with you before the end of month.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by touch

[DLeightonReid]

2 hours ago, BIG STU said:

But yes I am frugal and that is one of the reasons we both could retire and live happily at age 62. Not extravagant but comfortable. 

I resemble the frugal part of this comment, but I am still working at age 63.  We also plan on spending our winters in FL someday.

[Hankshank]

2 hours ago, Fellaheen51 said:

 

Scratched my head when I saw this earlier in the week.  KC boogalooing in Mr T chains.  What was that all about?  You posted a W against the Commanders.  Big deal.  Anyhow.  

 

I reference a decade plus back.  Representing the players, Kirk Cousins' speech at the 2011 B1G Kickoff luncheon.  A proud to be a Spartan moment.  

 

 

And yes.   Will be watching the Armed Forces Classic BB game tonight.  On the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln.  MSU v. Gonzaga.  Go Green.  

What a great speech from this young man at the time! Gonna have to make a little speech myself here...

Its pretty much what I have tried to induce in my children and they have responded positively, both doing great in their young careers. I think, this is as much a message to take for own digestion as it is for fathers to induce in their sons and daughters. Frankly, fathers. I have been busy online in diverse social platforms trying to grasp what fathers and mothers really want from their children, and mothers will say first and foremost "I want my children to be happy". Not so fathers, even if noone want their kids to be sad. Especially if you are born in a privileged family, as the young man said, your responsibility is to live up to responsibilities and that is not primarly funny. Now, myself having had a mother that did not let us kids fool around and put pressure on us kids to fulfil our chores and homeworks, I know that this is not a black and white thing. But generally speaking, and with experience from my latest 30 ys in more privileged surroundings than the concrete Stockholm suburb I grew up in, mothers with academical or prosperous backgrounds do NOT put as much lets say pressure on their kids as they should, at least in the country I live in. Dont know about the US or other parts of the world.

[touch]

The Veterans Day Luncheon. 

One of my favorite annual events where I work.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2023 by touch

[Double Mocha Man]

8 hours ago, BIG STU said:

LOL I should be ok since I do not swing hard enough any more to crack an egg

 

... but can you dent the sausage or smash the toast?

[Conrad1953]

I remember reading this book when it came out. I don't remember all the details now so

many years later, other than it being a fascinating read on the race to build the A bomb.

 

Some movies were made a few years later but, of course, movies always, by necessity,

have to leave out so much. 

 

The talk of the Enola Gay and the dropping of the bombs brought back the old memory

of this book.

 

 

[scomac2002]

10 minutes ago, Conrad1953 said:

I remember reading this book when it came out. I don't remember all the details now so

many years later, other than it being a fascinating read on the race to build the A bomb.

 

Some movies were made a few years later but, of course, movies always, by necessity,

have to leave out so much. 

 

The talk of the Enola Gay and the dropping of the bombs brought back the old memory

of this book.

 

 

 

I think that it is very important in current times, that we do not forget what took place so many years ago.  Time dulls the pain and soon no one remembers how it felt.  The lives lost.  The damage and destruction.  The wounds, both mental and physical never recovered from.

 

Neither my Father nor my Uncle ever spoke of their service during WW II.  Like the classic Dicken's line; it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.  I believe that's the extent of what I was told.  It never ceases to amaze the amount of pain internalized that is never shared with family.  I guess that's the definition of moral injury.

 

To all those who served and still serve, may we never forget. 😢 

[Fellaheen51]

24 minutes ago, Conrad1953 said:

I remember reading this book when it came out. I don't remember all the details now so

many years later, other than it being a fascinating read on the race to build the A bomb.

 

Some movies were made a few years later but, of course, movies always, by necessity,

have to leave out so much. 

 

The talk of the Enola Gay and the dropping of the bombs brought back the old memory

of this book.

 

 

 

In this context.  Perhaps anticipate the release of the film "Oppenheimer" next summer.  A fair amount of pre-release buzz surrounding the film.  Yeah, just a movie.  But movies can be well done, and accurate to the story.  

[Soloman1]

I was in a special “nuclear option” en route to my mechanical engineering degree at VPI&SU that included way too much nuclear physics and reactor vs. device contruction.

 

This is why I’m making a putter with a micro-reactor turning gyroscopes set in the heel and toe to stabilize the head…

 

I’m kidding.

 

Been to the Trinity site in New Mexico. Don’t pick up the glassified rocks, not matter how pretty they look.

 

Here’s an interesting little thing about Little Boy manufacturing and how compartmentalization of information affected design. None of the small teams knew what the other was doing or why they were doing it or what they were building. Only a handful of people at Los Alamos knew the complete picture.

 

Little Boy was a gun-type device that was very inefficient and was never tested before Hiroshima. It fired a sub-critical U-235 projectile into the other sub-critical mass of U-235 creating an uncontrolled reaction was within milliseconds.

 

The Naval Gun Factory had small, separated teams working on the design parameters given them, e.g. barrel width (6.5”),  muzzle velocity, barrel length, projectile shape and weight, etc., of the gun and breach. It used standard silk wrapped powder bags.

 

The teams could never come in under weight because standard cannon and naval gun design and materials is well known to make a working piece.

 

The information flowed slowly upwards until it got to Los Alamos. Los Alamos quickly knew the problem and information slowly went back down to the design teams.

 

It was only going to be fired once, but they were designing it to have the lifetime of a standard cannon or gun. Problem solved.

 

I do have some interesting first-hand perspectives from Japanese who were in the war. They may not be what you expect, but as they say, the first casualty of war is truth.

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2022 by Soloman1

[Conrad1953]

31 minutes ago, Fellaheen51 said:

 

In this context.  Perhaps anticipate the release of the film "Oppenheimer" next summer.  A fair amount of pre-release buzz surrounding the film.  Yeah, just a movie.  But movies can be well done, and accurate to the story.  

 

Sorry, didn't mean to cast aspersions on the movie industry. It's just that they are looking at

roughly a 2 hour limit and are forced to leave much out. Usually, when I have read the book

first, the movie comes up well short. If I have not read the book, or there is no book, then

I won't miss what I don't know, lol.

 

I found Oppenheimer to be a very compelling figure in Day One and thus would find a movie

about him an interesting watch for sure.

 

 

 

 

[nitram]

Oppenheimer was a different cat to say the least. I've always viewed him as a mixture of Einstein and Howard Hughes with a little Hunter S Thompson mixed in. I can't imagine the burden he bore as the leader and later face of the Manhattan Project, and what it ultimately offered to mankind.

Edited November 11, 2022 by nitram

[Fellaheen51]

9 minutes ago, Conrad1953 said:

 

Sorry, didn't mean to cast aspersions on the movie industry. It's just that they are looking at

roughly a 2 hour limit and are forced to leave much out. Usually, when I have read the book

first, the movie comes up well short. If I have not read the book, or there is no book, then

I won't miss what I don't know, lol.

 

I found Oppenheimer to be a very compelling figure in Day One and thus would find a movie

about him an interesting watch for sure.

 

 

 

 

 

No sorry necessary.  Didn't consider your comments as casting aspirations.  I share the same sentiments as it relates to reading a book, then subsequently watching the movie.  I'm usually left with expecting more.  

[Conrad1953]

Some books that I read prior and were made into TV mini series were excellent; did not disappoint 

and actually exceeded my expectations. Too  numerous to name most and due to my failing

memory won't try..........except 2 were standouts IMO and remain front and center in the old

memory banks.

 

The Brotherhood of The Rose, and Lonesome Dove. 

 

They both fit well into the mini series format and whoever did the casting in them chose well.

 

Any others? 

[nitram]

They could put everything Larry McMurtry ever scribbled on a napkin and make into an award-winning film. Come to think of it, they pretty well  did.

[Fellaheen51]

34 minutes ago, Conrad1953 said:

Some books that I read prior and were made into TV mini series were excellent; did not disappoint 

and actually exceeded my expectations. Too  numerous to name most and due to my failing

memory won't try..........except 2 were standouts IMO and remain front and center in the old

memory banks.

 

The Brotherhood of The Rose, and Lonesome Dove. 

 

They both fit well into the mini series format and whoever did the casting in them chose well.

 

Any others? 

 

Absolutely, Lonesome Dove.  Tommy Lee and Robert Duvall were stellar, with a solid supporting cast.

 

In the mini-series genre, from books that I've read.  Off the top of my head.  

 

Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and Smiley's People.  From the John le Carré's novels.  Cold war Spy v. Spy intrigue with the main character understatedly played by Sir Alec Guinness. 

 

North and South.  Based on the John Jakes Civil War trilogy.

 

Way BITD, enjoyed Shogun from the James Cavell novel.  

 

Without getting into adaptations to cinema.  

[Qqq123xx]

On 11/10/2022 at 12:39 PM, miamistomp said:

1954 messerschmitt

 

Rad and Touch nice day for some pavement eating.