Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[scomac2002]

The crowd didn't just love Tiger, they worshipped him! You would see every shot he took in every tournament he played whether he was in the hunt or not. That didn't bother when he was at the peak of his powers, but it began to wear thin when he was struggling through the lost decade.

They tried to promote those who have followed in the same manner, but none have had his persona, his charisma. I think that's why Ricky has done so well. It's because he's a character that we can all root for. A strong silent type with a bit of swagger who has shown that he can come up big in the clutch. His game just hasn't lived up to it in terms of tournament success. He certainly has the skillset and IMO is a far more impactful point man than Da Beast (although Da Beast may sell more clubs for them in the short term).

[Conrad1953]

I'm a Ricky fan. He left Butch and has a new swing coach and is going through a swing change right now. I hope things click for him

soon but you never know when these guys change their swings how it's gonna work out.

[scomac2002]

Thinking back on this it has occurred to me that even with Tiger and later Rory as well; the two of them combined couldn't sell enough clubs for Nike to keep them in the hardgoods game. It wasn't as if their clubs were crap either. IMO they had some of the best designs in irons, wedges and putters. It's just their woods/drivers that were a bit hinky. Cobra has had some pretty good stuff over the years too and yet I wonder if they will suffer the same fate as Nike in that it doesn`t matter how successful your players are when you`re up against that immovable object know as perception that Taylormade, Titleist, Callaway and Ping seem to have cornered. Maybe Mark King had it right all along; buy the market share on volume and then you`re golden. It has worked for both TM (drivers) and Titleist (balls).

[scomac2002]

RAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All night long too! I can't actually remember the last time it did rain. It has been a while. I know that I went to my Saturday morning game about two or three weeks back and they had a downpour at the course the night before, but we got nothing, so it feels like it has been close to a month. I know that the lawns in the neighbourhood are looking like it. I've been watering every three days and my grass still has quite a few brown spots in it. I've been fortunate to keep everything else going nicely with the tomato plants thriving in the heat an humidity. DW asked if I was planning on setting up a fruit stand at the end of the driveway as we've already got over 50 tomatoes set!

[Fellaheen51]

Same here!!! Finally. Woke up during the night to the sound of a steady rain. They yard was toasted. With the subsoil being mostly sand, whatever sprinkling I've been doing percolates right through. Plus, don't have to water the garden now for awhile. With the heat and absence of rain, was watering every 2 days. Otherwise the plants became wilted. And the tomato plants are beginning to set a lot of fruit as well. The plus side (if you call it that), haven't mowed the yard in better than two weeks.

The heat was brutal on Wednesday and Thursday, up in the mid-90's (saw 96* on the vehicle thermo Thursday). Got to be oppressive the last 4 holes on Wednesday. Causing me to loose my composure and focus trying to finish the round out. Didn't care any longer, just get me outta here.

Comfortably cool this a.m., sitting in the garage looking out at the morning dawn with my cup of joe.

 

[scomac2002]

Interesting link posted in the equipment section of WRX responding to a question about off-set drivers

https://youtu.be/yBRmTdfol8UBased on this explanation it confirms why my unorthodox adjustment with my driver worked because it flattened the lie angle and opened the face angle up. It's a good job I didn't pick up the Ping G SFT I was looking at because that would have just made matters worse. If anything I would require the LST version, but how could they ever make that work for a low swing speed, low spin player? Only reinforces my thoughts that modern club design is geared in a couple of directions and if you don't fit those molds it becomes increasingly difficult to find a fit.

[Fellaheen51]

Always been leery of a D that had a ball flight bias as part of the head design. A permanent corrective that's inherent with the head. Of the opinion that a less than desirable ball flight was a result of a less than good swing (i.e delivering the face back to square). Correct the flaw, hit straighter drives. So selecting a driver to correct a slice, may lead to exacerbating a hook. If corrective swing fixes have been made. Long before adjustability came into being, golfers figured out how to hit straighter drives somehow.

Certainly was my case. Became so frustrated with hitting slices, put the driver on hiatus. Finally realizing that I had to figure out how to hit it straighter. So worked on my swing. Flattening the swing plane was the significant revelation for adjusting to a more inside out path.

Never played a driver with the level adjustability that's available now. Also wonder if a layman's approach to figuring out the optimum setup is made all the more difficult without technology. Of which 90% of the data points in that video I didn't understand. So one needs to pay for a "fitter" to translate and figure it out for you. All of which costs $$ that I'm unwilling to spend. Suppose one could head to the range and incrementally "spin the dials" and observe the results. But seems like a tedious process. And with all the lies, loft, fade and draw settings, one could become lost in the process.

Back when I was playing the 910 D2, tried a number of different settings. Some were Ok, others terrible. The end result was one click down in loft seemed to work the best. But not really all that significant of a change with any given swing. The current driver, never have adjusted anything. Not even attempted it. Seem to be able to mostly hit it straight (with a good swing), so have left things alone. Going on two seasons now.

Ha. Now I'm wondering. Perhaps should dial it to maximum closed face and see what happens. Maybe start hitting perfect baby draws.

[scomac2002]

Ha. Now I'm wondering. Perhaps should dial it to maximum closed face and see what happens. Maybe start hitting perfect baby draws.Or perfect smother hooks...

Interesting your comments about the Titleist driver. I played my 913 D2 for a good chunk of last season and got along pretty well with it. Like you I had terrible results with some settings. Adding loft did nothing for my case as it just seemed to make the ball go more left. But, opening up the face by fattening the club was like night and day. More often than not I was getting a nice baby fade with a bit of height under the ball. Perhaps the secret may lie in going back to a driver that's a bit more open and flatter in lie. All the tinkering done over the years to slice proof drivers has lead to closed faces accompanied by way too upright lie angles. How the heck are you ever supposed to keep a club on plane with a 45"+ shafts length set at a 60° lie angle unless you're 7' tall?!

[Conrad1953]

My G15 driver is not adjustable and has a neutral face. It works just fine for me; I get pretty much a straight flight or a slight turn left or right

if I miss a little toe(slight draw) or heel side(slight fade).

 

I know my bad misses with this driver of which there are basically 2. One is a straight pull/pull draw if I rush the downswing from transition and

turn my upper body first. The other is a high push fade if I get stuck and flip coming into impact; the dreaded 2 way miss. The key for me to

avoid that awful left miss is to make sure I have a very deliberate transition/weight shift onto my lead side before I start back down. Like Stu

has said he has done, I've had to develop an anti left swing to be able to play the Legislator course here at the RTJ Trail. You can hit fades and

slices all day on that course and get away with it BUT if you miss left you've likely a lost ball or are in jail; if you manage to find your ball.

 

The hole with the OB left in Sco's video made me chuckle. It's like so many holes here, other than here it's not OB, just woods, swamps, rivers,

lakes, waste areas and other carp. You can blow the ball way right but a small miss left and you're hitting a provisional.

 

 

[Conrad1953]

Sco, one thing to consider with the longer clubs like the driver and FWs, and especially if you're playing a soft senior flex shaft, is you're

gonna get more shaft droop coming into impact. People think about the shaft loading and releasing on basically a tilted horizontal plane

but the shaft will also droop down on a vertical plane coming into impact. That has the effect of flattening the effective lie angle

at impact. So if your driver and fairway woods seem a bit too upright at set up, they may not be at impact. If you're getting good results

I wouldn't worry about it.

 

One thing also about senior shafts or soft shafts in general that might surprise people. The softer a shaft is the more it will deflect and

droop. making it actually harder to hit the sweet spot of a club head than it is with a stiffer shaft. I know, for me, if I have too soft a shaft

I will hit the ball all over the place. This why I use a stiff shaft in my driver and longer clubs. I may lose a little yardage but I will find the

sweet spot more often and my shot dispersion tightens up quite a bit because it's easier to square the club face with a stiffer shaft.

 

 

 

This video explains shaft droop and deflection and the importance of having a good fit with your shafts

 

 

[BIG STU]

In that case you tune it with the shaft. In other words I was basically in the same boat as you diminished swing speed. You get a shaft with a soft tip and do not tip it on the driver or fairway wood. It will kick and generate speed at the impact point. You may also have to play with weight placement some to get it to kick for you. Of course if I ever get over my injuries there is no telling what is going to happen with my swing. I am able right now to do a little in the shop with the AC blasting. I am working on a Titleist 915 D-2 that I used to game. My normal setting was A-2 which is 10.5 with the face closed about 1.5 according to my measurements and their chart. According to their chart I can dial it up to 12* with a 2* open face. The open face is no problem for me because I can shut it at address. That Mitsubishi Diamana that is in it will kick anyhow. And also that adjustment should flatten it out some. I will manually check it for sure.

[BIG STU]

Part of the shaft droop you are talking about is if the shaft is a soft flex all the way around. Basically tuning a shaft for me I like a shaft stiff in the middle and top side and soft tipped. But the droop you spoke about happens with a weak mid and top section. One of the reasons I like the Hogan Apex shafts in my irons. The top and mid are stout and the tip is soft.

[BIG STU]

According to what I have found on Titleist both by their chart and on my lie board with the manual protractor. When you loft up you open the face and flatten it some.

[scomac2002]

MY 913 D2 was a 12° head with an RIP Phenom in 50g R flex. That was a fairly stiff tip so I needed the extra loft to get it to work. I had it set to C4 for best fit and that was +.75° more loft and +.75° flat. I also had to add a couple of strips of led tape so that I could feel the head a bit better. I would have loved to know what it actually measured out to with a square face angle because the chart talks about effective loft.

According to what I have found on Titleist both by their chart and on my lie board with the manual protractor. When you loft up you open the face and flatten it some.This is what I always thought was the case based on what happens when you open up the face of a wedge -- you add more loft. Then I remember TM talking about adding more loft and more draw bias simultaneously with a single adjustment that was effectively making the club more upright. That made no sense to me because if you take a wedge and stand it on it's toe you effectively remove loft. Never really could get my head around that one.

 

[BIG STU]

SOCO ---- Most folks in the golfing world are not like us equipment wise. They will believe any hype the manufacturers can produce. On the wedge thing remember Ben Crenshaw and Raymond Floyd used to stand like a 56* on the toe for chipping that is exactly what they were doing de lofting it to make it run. Yep you do exactly like I do check it manually with a protractor.

[tolmij]

One Australian state is currently having a large spike with the virus, every other state has cut them off and blocked their borders to the residents. A group of six youngsters decided they would bypass the security as they could not find work in their own state so drove to Queensland to find work even though we are in the same condition. As the borders are manned by heavy security they dumped their vehicle before the border and walked across away from the security but unbeknown to them they had police watching out for this and as they crossed the border were arrested. They complained they were doing nothing wrong but their phones proved otherwise so they were fined $4000 each and sent back whence they came, a total of $24000 should keep them sober for a while. Fortunately unlike some countries Australia is taking this seriously in particular the Queensland premier Anastasia who has been criticised but we are now only getting at a maximum of one infection a day.

 

No golf last week, heavy rain on golf day, trying again this week.

[scomac2002]

Well that didn't turn out the way that I had hoped. I guess that gives credence to the idea that first impressions tell you everything you need to know.

To put it mildly, those new irons were bloody awful! I could not make contact of any sort and even when I took a very deliberate partial swing to ensure contact I was flabbergasted at how little distance I got out of them. I'm not sure how anyone could use them effectively!

There was no mass to the clubs in the swing which caused me to pull off my shots and top virtually every full swing I took. Conversely, I had no trouble hitting my driver or 3W or SW well. In fact, that was the surprise of the day in that I hit my SW so well whether pitching the ball or chipping it. It was easily my best day around the green rotating between my SW and the new PW for a variety of short game shots. Despite such miserable iron play I still managed to have a par putt on 7 of 9 holes. Of course, I decided to leave my putting stroke home today and that's about all she wrote. Mark me down for another 45!

So, after nine swings I have banished the offensive irons back into their shipping box (along with a temperamental 4 hybrid) and put my old irons back in the bag. Guess I'll be playing with tendinitis until I can't play anymore. Who knows, maybe one of the guys in my men's league will like to try out some graphite shafted irons to see if they work for them or I could just sell them back about as quickly as I bought them and take the lesson to heart: No more impulse buys when it comes to golf equipment!

[Conrad1953]

I think I remember you saying not long ago that you can't play with clubs that are too light; that you can't "feel" where the club head is

during your swing. You know, you're not alone that way. I've read many a post here at WRX that say the same thing. I was kinda surprised

to see you try to go down that road again with this latest purchase. I think you're just one of those guys who feel better with a little more

heft and a little heavier than normal swing weights.

 

I wouldn't rule out graphite shafts just yet. You can get them a little heavier and also swing weight your clubs so they feel right to you.

There no reason to think you can't get your clubs to fit and feel the way you want. You have the club building skills and guys here like

Fella and Stu to help out.

 

One thing I have certainly learned that works better for me is to play with the same clubs consistently and not be switching them up.

It's fun to ho clubs and try different ones but I'm not much interested in all that any more and would rather play better and shoot

lower scores..................and spend the money playing instead of hoing!

[Sean2]

The only way I abolished tennis elbow was the switch to graphite. And, as Conrad alluded to, not all graphite shafts are light weight. The AeroTech Steel Fibers come in heavier weights, to name one manufacturer.

[scomac2002]

They didn't feel so bad swinging them, but it was making contact that was the issue. I couldn't! When I did, I was shocked at how vacant they felt; like a marshmallow on a stick with about as much pop on the ball. They just felt like a giant pile of pooh! You could give me a set of forged blades and I'd get more out of it! Seriously! And it wouldn't even be close! In fact, I'd bet a C note on getting more yardage out of a blade 3iron with TTDG S300 than the 5 iron with this set, one swing each as a swing off! Probably the worst irons I've ever hit!

I'm rapidly becoming of the mind that I can't hit modern clubs. Anything from the last 10 years is a real challenge unless I luck into something.

The industry would simply say that I need lessons. They maybe right, but I'm not sure I've got the patience for that and for damned sure I haven't go the patience to keep playing the way I have been!

Back to square one I guess.

[Hankshank]

Not me :) I will buy a set of clubs and play them till they break. If balls go where I dont want them to go I change my swing... Using my third set since ’81. Got a 60* from missus as a christmas present `02. Lost my T-line putter in a dam ’06 took the putter from my son’s set, he got bored with golf. Otherwise just the clubs in the set I buy.

[Hankshank]

Well, where I come from, we have one of the highest death rates per capita in the world, and people run about just as they like. We do have restrictions, nowhere close to quarantine but still restrictions, but too many people just dont care. I’m ashamed of the behaviour of many of my fellow countrymen. One thing is that some people do need to do stuff for their work, and the economy need to go on, but I’m talking about people that just cannot keep the distance when there is no problem to do that. I can give you some stories... Have been living quarantine-like myself since April since missus got a medical condition.

[Sean2]

Hank, playing clubs for that long isn’t very GolfWRX like, lol.

[scomac2002]

I think I convinced myself 30 years ago that if I just had better clubs I could hit the ball better.

About 15 years ago DW decided that she wanted to try playing golf so we both got better new gear and took a few lessons. Those three lessons were probably the big difference maker for me from being completely useless to having a clue as to what to do. I even managed to convince my wife that better clubs would help her -- she started out with a box set -- and that kept me occupied for a couple of years.

I actually believed that buying new stuff every couple of years was part of the game of golf. I remember my instructor hinting that I might benefit from better clubs and thus Pandora's box was opened. I've been a lost cause ever since.

Thank goodness for eBay and other resellers because without them I'm sure I would have been divorced by now, a victim of golf club hoing! Who knows, she might still turf me out!

[Fellaheen51]

Unfortunate to read the irons didn't work out as anticipated. More than occasionally, the reality doesn't match the expectation. And when the implements are as lifeless as it sounds, no amount of further evaluation will likely change how they play.

A possible short term solution to make the Burner+ irons more tendonitis tolerable. IIRC, they have steel shafts. ProSoft inserts. Relatively inexpensive, easy to install, removable as well. Can't offer a first hand opinion. But from what I've read, offers some measure of vibration dampening improvement when installed. Although not graphite level for pain mitigation. GolfWorks Canada sells them. (https://www.golfworks.ca/prosoft-dampening-inserts/p/ps5002/)

Been composing a longish discourse on iron implements that I'm now more than a bit reluctant to post. Concerned it contains to much of my layman's Theory of Golf Clubs without proper substantiation. Not wanting to misinterpret what you're experiencing and/or to what end you would like to achieve. Plus not wanting to clutter things up around here. If you have an inclination, we could bounce some ideas around.

The fundamental question to ask yourself........"How much am I willing to invest and is it worth it?" Not strictly in financial terms.

[tolmij]

Call me not very well informed but until I started reading golf blogs I never realised the difference a set of clubs could make. I have had several sets over the years and its only after reading all this technical information that I accepted my bad game may not be my fault but the inability of the golf club manufacturers to produce a decent club.

I must admit my present set, Callaway x2 hot are easier to keep the ball in play and also give me more consistency with distance. I have never been a long hitter and never bothered about the shafts, but I am reasonably certain my present clubs have a flexible shaft as there is no vibration through my hands. Still waiting for a good day to play.

[tolmij]

In our State we are lucky as most people seem to switch on their brains when they wakeup, some of the other states are now having large second waves and are going into a tighter lockdown than the first time. They are now introducing large fines and compulsory detention for those who refuse a test and there are many of them. For some reason there is still a large group who do not believe it exists.

[scomac2002]

Don't hesitate to post what's on your mind. We can all learn from it. If it doesn't help me out then maybe it will help someone else out.

I like your suggestion of Pro Soft inserts. A clubmaker on another site that I used to frequent was a big promoter of them for tendinitis mitigation without having to go for a reshaft or new set or irons. The poor man's solution so-to-speak.

With respect to bouncing ideas around; you know that I'm always up for that. Probably not helped by the fact that my back has been sore for the past week or so following an overly exuberant bike ride. Tough to know if that was the initial culprit, but when my hips and low back are still sore first thing in the morning almost a week later I have to wonder.

I should have known better than attempting to play clubs without even the slightest testing beforehand. So that's just going to happen on occasion. Lord knows that I've demoed clubs in the past that were just a non starter kinda like these irons right from the get go. I'll put them aside and hang onto them for a bit and maybe try again another time. If I get a chance to sell them though, they'll be out the door faster than you can say: will that be cash or credit?

[Sean2]

@scomac2002 I hear you. I used to buy and sell way too much, and had a garage with way too many golf boxes, lol. Now I am more about the swing.
Nothing wrong with buying new frequently, as that is a hobby for some. For me, I was trying to buy a better game, and that was a fool’s errand.

[Sean2]

I tried pro soft inserts and a softer grip, but it didn’t work for me. Of course my tendinitis was so bad I couldn’t pick up a glass of water and was sidelined for three months.