Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[tolmij]

To me the problem with purchasing golf clubs is you cannot trust many people because they have a vested interest in selling what they recommend. Since being on WRX I have read plenty of ads for clubs and if you believe any of them we would all be playing on the pro circuit.

Having followed many grillers over the years I am very happy I cannot afford to keep purchasing them, as sco said making a mistake can be expensive.

[Hankshank]

Thats not very something at all golfer like. My buddies all tease me for my ugly clubs. I have promised myself a custom fitting and a new set of clubs once my swing stabilizes but that seems never to happen.

[Sean2]

I am not sure how many amateur golfers have a stable swing Hank. I had my first fitting one year after I started playing, and I wasn’t very good. Turned out I needed +2-inches, and 2 degrees upright over my standard length irons.

I look forward to seeing photos of your new clubs. :-)

[Conrad1953]

Was gonna sell my Rapture V2 irons. I bought them a few years ago because I had coveted a set back in 2009 when they were new. They

were so expensive back then because of the titanium and tungsten. Anyway, I had never actually played them but then I thought I would

give them a try about a month and a half ago. Well, they kicked my beloved S58s out of my bag and I've been playing my best golf in years

with them. I love the higher ball flight these irons and wedges give me.

 

So here's my updated WITB with the new ugly irons in the bag........................pretty is as pretty does, lol. The rest of the bag remains unchanged.

[Fellaheen51]

Long ago as I recall: "One thing I have certainly learned that works better for me is to play with the same clubs consistently and not be switching them up." (7/13/20)

Holy polar opposites! S58 to Rapture V2. Talk about a radical switch in implements, skinny soles to fatties. Consulting the charts, Ultra Game Improvement. Play Your Best.

Have had a strange curiosity with Raptures. Wondering how they would play, liked how they looked (all the better with those garish lime green graphite shafts). Very techy with the titanium face, tungsten and all. Weren't they like $1500 per set BITD (2009'ish). Serious coin. Recall seeing a set at the LGS used club rack once, premium priced. Struck by how wide the soles were, K15 wide IIRC. WTS, Ping has always been very innovative throughout their history. Ping "ugly" is a better than most other pretties.

______________________________________________________

Took the Mrs. to the LGS the other day to buy her a new golf bag. Her's had become worn out and I wouldn't dare make a decision on my own. She ended up with a Sun Mountain 'cuz it looked pretty (and I was "advising" her that SM are good bags). Anyhow, she wanted to browse the over-priced apparel, so wandered off to the equipment department. Every time seemingly, head straight to the Ping iron department. Don't look at anything else. (Ok, had to pass the TM section. Peaked at the Sim Max irons. Hideous.) Waggle test several of the Pingers. Dam(n) those black G710's look pretty sweet. Fat bottomed, but they do a good job disguising it. Wonder how they would play? They're how much? Risky business to drop a G-Note plus on irons without knowing how they play out in the wild after several months of use. A 50 minute "fitting" (as I was pitched) doesn't tell me much. If they had a black screw in the toe, I could be marginally tempted. LOL.

Ended up buying another box of Snell MTB yellows. The cheap(er) Surlyn ball testing has left me unimpressed so far. The MTB's go further, feel better, hold better. For a ~$10 premium, figure I'm worth it.

_____________________________________________________

Played yesterday with the buds. Marvelous day, ~80*, sunny, cooling breeze. Shot a perfect boggy golf round of 45/45. Nothing particularly good, or bad......just average. Other than on the par 5 17th, when I bolo sliced the drive into the doolies for a lost ball. Taking a double bogey 7 on the hole. Cost me a chance to break 90. Chip and pitch is slowly coming around. Getting the feels for how to properly execute various types of short game shots. At least being able to hit the ball onto the green, rather than the fat or thin. Distance control is still suspect though. Been wielding an older Cleveland 900 58* wedge of late. Learning how to play shots with a higher lofted wedge in hand. Heretofore, a dicey at best proposition. Been liking it for the high(er) pitches from close in. Those touchy feely shots around the green. Opening it up a bit for the high lob. Hope I don't jink it by mentioning this observation. Fun was had.

 

 

 

[Fellaheen51]

@Conrad1953. Do you know the brand of the knit head covers in the pic? Rather like those, not having a pom or tassel. Have a thing for knits. Been browsing around for non-denominational (thx Sean 2) replacements for mine that have begun to acquire some holes in them.

[Conrad1953]

They are Rocket Tour head covers. I bought them online from their website rockettour.com.

 

Hey, I have stayed with the Rapture V2 irons for a month and a half already, lol. I plan to keep on truckin' with them. Yes, they are

a drastic change from my S58s but not a change I'm unfamiliar with since I have played many iterations of Ping G series irons; and

these are similar in size to most of the G series. Now,the K15s, Karstens and G Max ARE huge; at least from what I remember of

them. I don't think the Rapture V2s are as big as those monsters.

 

 

[tolmij]

Looking at the virus numbers. Qld my home state has 5.1 million residents, is three times the size of Texas and this week has only had two new cases of the virus, In comparison America is reporting tens of thousands every day. I worry for my Griller friends.

[Sean2]

Great irons, those Rapture V2's. I can't see anything today that is any better than those irons. I wish I still had mine!

[Sean2]

I used to be a news junkie, but haven't watched or read any news going on six weeks. Too depressing. I figure if something is important enough for me to know, someone will tell me. Maybe this is short sighted on my part, but as I said, the news today is too depressing...too much catastrophizing and what not.

[Fellaheen51]

I knew they were down there, hidden away in the deep recesses of the basement. My brother's K15 Michigan play set. Shipped them up last year to use while here visiting. Went down to have a look this a.m. out of curiosity. They're huge! Noticed that they were "Ti Face" and what looks to be a weight (tungsten?) embedded in the cavity out towards the toe. Surmising Ping incorporated some of the design tech started with the Raptures into the K15's.

Didn't realize they were blue dots, not to far off from my green (1* / 1.5* depending on the color code system used at the time). Knew they had steel shafts but hadn't paid any attention until today. They have AWT SR flex. Waggle testing, feel kinda nice, definitely light weight. Standard length likely, feel on the short side.

Wonder how they swat, especially the 5 as a quasi-hybrid iron? On the chart, 894 UGI. Might pop off the grip, install an extension and give it a try. He'll be none the wiser if I start messing with a club as it's reversible. Anyhow, though I'd take a couple pics and post them. A Ping ying and yang, skinny v. chubby. The K15 and ISI.

[tolmij]

Could not agree more, however we do keep check on the numbers because if it rises too much we will once again go into isolation. We both have conditions that could not assist recovery, one of them both being old buggers.??‍♀️?‍♂️

[Fellaheen51]

Perusing the internets for inconsequential news of the day:

Da Beast smacks one 423 yards. BDC +1. Same hole. Da (Bad) Man hits 144 yards shorter. TW -1.

[Conrad1953]

Ha, I remember you thrifted a set of K15s and then sold them on eBay for a nice profit.

 

Kidding aside, if you can get used to them visually you may find you like them. These are not hollow body, flex face hybrid like irons.

They are solid and likely have that sturdy solid Ping feel with the touch of softness the ti face brings. I also remember you saying you

sometimes have a problem with hitting the ball too high. These will launch high I'm sure but that is the design. As long as you're

getting a high penetrating ball flight and not a spinny high flight that just dies and falls out of the sky; a high ball flight is good for

holding greens.

 

One thing I really like about the Rapture wedges and I imagine would be the same with the K15s, is how they behave if you hit them

a little fat. Instead of digging they glide into the back of the ball; saving you from the dreaded chunk. I really really like that kind of

forgiveness. Just don't ever open these wedges, not even in sand; just swing normally and let the design work for you. If you open

them they will bounce way too much and you will hit skulls.

 

 

[Conrad1953]

We have a population of roughly 340 million people Tol. We've had 3.53 million cases and 138,000 deaths as of this moment.

 

 

[Fellaheen51]

After the chatter this morning, decided to play a quick 9 at the local goat track. Took the K15 5 iron along for some swats. It's now back downstairs where it shall remain. Yes, I generally hit a pretty high ball with irons, and the K15 seemed to exacerbate that trajectory tendency. Ball would leave the face with some authority, then just die in the air, with no carry. Did a A/B test with the ISI 6 iron from about 160 on one hole, and the 6 was longer with a lower trajectory. Although the fairways on this course are very dried out currently, had to move the ball frequently to areas of some green turf to hit from. Lots of rollout with a lower ball flight. Center face contact did have a nice feel to it though. The super wide sole didn't work very well for me off a thin turf lie. Liked the weight of the AWT shafts (SR), but wanted to get hooky when I tried stepping on a shot. Oh well. No skin in the game.

Been playing a 27* hybrid lately with some measure of confidence. So I'll stick with that during regular play from beyond 150.

 

[Conrad1953]

I wondered if the soft regular shafts might be too weak for you. Sounds like that's the case with the ball flight you described.

 

I remember tossing around in my head the pros and cons of thin soles vs wide soles. It's really a personal preference. I had to

admit to myself I was playing wide soled hybrids without any 'turf interaction" issues. I couldn't see why a wide soled 7 iron

would be a problem to hit.......or a 9 iron etc......and it hasn't been...............for me. I fully get though that others much prefer thin

soles and small headed irons. I no longer have any biases one way or the other. I'm just looking to make the game as easy as

I can at this stage in life.

 

 

 

 

[Conrad1953]

Well........................Da Beast missed the cut. Da Man made it on the number. Da Man 1 Da Beast 0

[BIG STU]

Well I have been reading through things this morning. funny thing is each one of us approaches the game differently. For me anymore ( when I could play) I had gotten where when by myself I play the vintage stuff switching around quite a bit especially in the driver and putter department. For me now at this stage of life it is more of lets see if I can hit this thing and how does it feel. Now if I am playing with my buds or in the dogfight I play my signature set. I have learned one thing in my down time since putting was the only thing I can do. On any given day I can putt bad with any putter or I can putt good. The other day i was messing around with a sort of modern 8802 style Lynx Black Cat. I was canning putts all over the putting green. Pulled out the rusty Scotty and did the same thing. Of course to be completely honest I have the speed down pat and know every break on that putting green.

On my injury prognosis it is very positive. Doing the shoulder PT I have been knocking it out of the ball park so to speak. Can do all the exercises they give me and have been doing some at home on the off days. No pain or stiffness in the mornings. I was supposed to do 15 sessions but I think the Doc and therapist are going to cut me loose at 12 sessions. went to the Neurologist on my back Wednesday. It is progressing great too. He told me to do away with the back brace some and the cane. He gave me the green light to hit like half wedges some. PT is supposed to start in the next week or so as soon as they cut me loose on the shoulder. Went to the course really stoked yesterday morning. Did my warm ups as usual and felt good sans back brace and cane. Putted 30 minutes or so and then went to the wedges. LOL Rad is gonna love this I threw some of my wedges in a stand bag among them a Ping Zing LW which I love. Now remember I have not hit a ball since April 26 other than skidding a 5 iron some around the green. I figured I could hit the big faced Ping wedge. first chip from about 20 yards out I holed it. My Pro was standing there and said "you ain't lost a darn thing". Kinda worked my way into things. What was most important I had no pain then or last night. went and did my shoulder PT at 4:00 and felt fine. Was exhausted last night and went to bed early got up early and am not in pain this morning. will do another 2 hour session this morning at day light before it gets too hot. Looking forward to back PT because the goal is to strengthen my core which can add up to distance. Yep I feel the most positive I have felt since my accident. But I am still taking it easy and doing just like the doc says

[tolmij]

Good news on the injury, I know from my sporting days these type of injuries can take a long time to repair. Unlike DW you have listened to the experts,

i have great problems getting her to follow the recovery programme.

Back to full 18 holes golf soon for you Stu.

[Fellaheen51]

Dunno. Perhaps the brief test with the K15 5 iron was not the best choice to try. For whatever reason, the 5 iron to 6 iron transition has been my demarcation line for a long time now. I don't see any benefit to using a 5 iron, typically not realizing any distance gain. Often finding that I can hit the ball equal to or further with a 6 iron. Not distance in the absolute, simply the gaping. Not unlike what I experienced yesterday. Which translates to the ~150 yard mark these days. At or beyond that point, have other implement types (lofted fairway and/or hybrid) that can be swung with improved effectiveness and reliability. All things relative to any given swing. Why bother going beyond a 6 iron is my M.O.

I certainly don't discount the mental aspect of looking down at that monster. Radically different than what I've been accustomed to. With zero adaptation time. But I believe it would be a non-starter from closer in ranges. Cannot mentally wrap by head around wielding such a large head rom say 120 yards. Meat cleaver v. scalpel syndrome. Don't have an issue with heel to toe size, or offset in an iron head. It's the super-wide sole width that becomes mentally problematic.

Who knows about iron shafts these days. Whether real or muddled over-thinking, don't quite know what I should be using. Some days, the LW graphites in the Maltby's play pretty good. On others, dispersion becomes a mess. Where I don't feel like I'm controlling the club, ugly pull hooks start occurring. Switch to irons with LW steel shafts and it goes away. But they're in the Hogan's, and playing MB's these days from much beyond 125 has become a bridge to far. How much is swing related versus shafts? Don't have a clue. Can be very swing inconsistent on any given day. WTS, just want to swing the club with my preferred tempo, without the concern of overcooking a shot. That I have to backoff the swing to keep the ball under control.

By the book, at my age, I'm in the target zone for playing LW senior flex graphite shafts. But regular flex steel shafts in the 100 gram range seem to play and feel the best. Don't need to play graphite for their vibration dampening attributes. Further, heavier weight graphite tends to be quite expensive for a DIY approach. Suppose spending $ and time generating Trackman data testing combinations would cut through the fog. But don't have access (without paying handsomely for it), therefore an exercise that I'm never going to do. As I have zero intentions of ever buying new OEM clubs.

A consideration factor of why I acquired the ISI's as a retro iron alternative to use. One, they were relatively cheap. Way cheap for BeNi's. Secondly, had some experience hitting a ball with a thrifted partial set and discovered that I rather liked to how they played. (Since have sold off the partials, covering 90% of the acquisition cost of the full set. Strange what people will buy at times.) Recognizing that the z-z65 stiff shafts were most likely going to be unwieldy. And that's certainly been the realization. I've been shopping around for replacement shafts, but most of the dubious pulls I've been seeing were more than I wanted to spend. Recently discovered that Hireko Golf was selling new, uncut, TT Dynalite Gold XL regular flex shaft sets (4 - SW) for $50 plus shipping. Ordered a set yesterday, was a no brainer really. That's cheaper by no small amount than various pulls I was looking at. Plus not having to concern myself with installed playing lengths being off. A bit heavier than I wanted, but still relatively light weight at 113 grams. Anticipating the regular flex and soft tip should improve the ISI's playability once I get them installed.

The Hogans are likely goners as soon as I pull the extensions out and return them to standard length. Clubs are easier to sell that way. Seriously, don't need to have a set of MB's around any longer. Furthermore, have a set of Apex II's still in inventory when I get the urge to classically abuse myself. Got a minimal amount invested in them, been reamed to .370 to fit some shafts I had laying around, so cannot in good faith sell them off.

Sheesh, from K15's to Apex II's babble this morning. Sorry about that. Stream of consciousness posting on The Theory and Practice of Irons. (An obscure reference nod to the late, great author Jim Harrison.)

 

 

[scomac2002]

Great news of your progress @BIG STU! I hope that you back PT goes as well as the shoulder routine did and you are back on the course in short order.
I'm going to play nine this morning with the Saturday morning group. Sat out last week as I was sore and we had plans for the day anyway. The Burner + are back in the bag today for the familiarity factor. At some point I'm going to give the graphite shafted Speedblades another go at the range when I can work on a more deliberate practice routine and then I will pass judgement following one or two such sessions.
I think that @Conrad1953 is right that it's better for your game to stick with what works for you and not switch around a lot. I've threatened my putter on a few occasions this year, but I've used the same one all the way through. I've made a few putts with it; missed a lot more, but i figure it's me rather than the stick. #1 son always said it was my alignment that was the culprit, unfortunately I can't change my eyes or my spatial perception, so I just have to accept that I'll never be a good putter.
I'm one of those guys that just doesn't get along with wide bottomed soles on irons. I've played a few over the years and I've had more consistent contact with less forgiving irons. I can hit a fairway wood or a hybrid off the deck just fine, so why not an iron? Bounce and camber are the culprits in my estimation. When you're a picker of the ball these features aren't going to help you if the head is designed specifically to limit digging. I'm pretty sure that's why I struggled so mightily with the CBX wedge.

[scomac2002]

This discussion of iron design and fat soles versus thin soles brings up the perfect opportunity for a little bit of Saturday morning debate.

The suggestion by the industry is to get fitted to get equipment that works best with your swing.

If your swing has issues they'll tell you to get lessons to correct your problems.

Ever notice how different the golf swing is of current professional versus those from 50 or 60 years ago?

Ever hit a hickory shafted club, particularly an iron? I'm talking about an original player not one of the acceptable remakes that are on the market today from the likes of Tad Moore or Louisville Golf. You'll discover quickly that the original club -- in my case it was a mashie niblick -- requires a particularly flat swing to get clean contact without cutting a beaver pelt.

My contention is that the golf swing has been adapted -- at least the one that is taught by and large -- to the equipment of the day which is the opposite of the notion of getting fit for your equipment. The swing today is designed to create spin because the ball doesn't spin like it used to. You hit up on the driver to get it to launch. You hit down on the irons to compress them to generate spin. It's a trade off with the ball gaining carry distance and straightness for a lack of spin that has to be manipulated with the swing. Works great for the pro, but not so much for the average Joe.

[Fellaheen51]

@scomac2002. "I've threatened my putter on a few occasions this year, but I've used the same one all the way through. I've made a few putts with it; missed a lot more, but i figure it's me rather than the stick. #1 son always said it was my alignment that was the culprit, unfortunately I can't change my eyes or my spatial perception, so I just have to accept that I'll never be a good putter".Not discounting that putting and the implement utilized is tricky business. WTS, believe I noted that you wear eyeglasses. As do I. Specifically progressive bifocals in my regular wear specs. And I struggle wearing them while playing if I have to (which would be heavy overcast bordering on rain). By sense of depth perception goes askew. And there is nothing cheap or inferior with the lenses in them, properly adjusted and aligned in the frame. Seems as though I'm often looking through that transition range while playing. Putting seems to accentuate the issue as Im looking down at the ball, up to the line I want to take, back down on the ball. It's as if my eyesight can't keep up with the changing spatial variance. Strangely, something I don't notice anywhere else.
Why I use single vision sunglasses that are greatly preferred for golf. My eyes are not very tolerant of bright light conditions, wear sunglasses virtually all the time when outdoors in daylight. Even on somewhat overcast days. Since I don't have a golf specific model versus what I use the rest of the time, based my purchasing assessment on what would be good optics for golf as primary intent. I have no issue with wearing shades while playing, if for no other reason than UV protection. Have read that others can't play can't play golf with sunglasses.
Don't know if that has been in your realm of contemplation relative to putting difficulties. Just throwing it out there as a possible contributing factor.

[Conrad1953]

It's awesome that your recovery is moving along so well! LOL, first shot attempted holes out from 20 yards with a fugly

old Ping Zing LW. Play your best!

[Conrad1953]

Byron Nelson is credited with being the creator of the "modern" golf swing when hickory shafts were replaced with steel. I agree

with you that swings have adapted to the equipment as the equipment evolved; which is a far different thing from adapting the

equipment to your swing during a "fitting". If you're gonna play your best golf, you need to do both. This is one reason why I

maintain that a driver swing is not the same as a 7 iron swing. Those are 2 very different clubs hitting a ball from very different

lies. I think, for the most part, we are unaware of the changes we make when we hit a driver off a tee, then go hit an 8 iron off

the ground. We just do it..................but how many times have we struggled with a driver and hit our irons well during a round

or vice versa? A lot I think; which is proof to me the swings ARE different.....and should be.

 

Interesting point you make about camber, bounce, etc. on iron soles compared to hybrids and FWs. In my mind, and of course,

I could be wrong, I see those as issues ONLY when your swing path is VERY shallow AND you arrive at the ball with the handle

closer to straight up rather than leaning forward. You can easily test this for yourself by grabbing an iron and setting it on the

ground with the handle straight up and then lean it forward. With the handle straight up the leading edge is up off the ground

and the bounce on the sole is in play. This will lead to thin shots if your impact position is with the handle straight up......OR you

can play with irons with little to no bounce and a flat or cambered sole with the rear of the sole higher off the ground than

the leading edge. If you're a shallow picker of the ball you likely have little to no shaft lean at impact. Nothing wrong with

that. Lots of pickers out there.

 

If at impact you have shaft lean, then the leading edge is much closer to the ground and the bounce of the sole is pretty

much taken out of play and the camber matters little or not at all; depending on the amount of shaft lean. So, if you know

what your impact looks like you can pick irons accordingly to match your impact.

 

Needless to say, the straight up shaft at impact leaves little margin for error and so the bottom of the iron should be of a

design to provide a little more margin. The forward leaning shaft at impact provides quite a large margin for error as long

as the approach is still shallow; as much as 4-6 inches which is A LOT; which means the club can bottom out anywhere from

at the ball to as much as 6 inches in front of the ball and still have decent impact. If one gets steep though this margin

shrinks rapidly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[scomac2002]

Ya, I do wear progressives. Add a pair of clip-ons to the mix and there lots of room for depth perception jiggery pokery.

On the plus side I made a very nice 15 footer or so for birdie today, so the implement works fine if the operator puts a decent stroke on the ball. Had an in and out for par on the very next hole on a putt of the same length. 15 putts today versus 22 on Monday makes a big difference to the scorecard!

Didn't hit the driver or 3W worth a darn, but I was reasonable with everything else. Had a couple of nice 9 irons from just inside 100 yards to add credence to the theory of swing easy for good results. All in all it was a good day.

[Qqq123xx]

Well bought an electronic dart board and arrived yesterday. Put it up today. Nice wood doors and bought on sale for around $85. With like a ridiculous number of games. Played one a bit ago 301 against the board. First two darts I threw were triple 17 and triple 19 and was proceeding to kick butt on the easiest setting when board throws a double bullseye. Then next set first dart triple 17 lol. And a few more trips and dubs. And the rest is history. And that was the easiest setting of five lol. Time for a cocktail.

[BIG STU]

When I was taught the game I was taught to hit down and through the ball. One of the reasons I like my butter knife Macs. With some of these newer irons with a lot of bounce I tend to bounce the sole into the ball thin. The only shot I really pick is a shot off of concrete or hard pan. I am like Sergio in one respect I leave a divot even with a fairway wood or hybrid. But everyone's swing and AOA is different.

[Sean2]

I shot a 39 on the front, and wasn't pleased with my ball striking, on the back I said, "The hell with it", and decided to swing at the ball with my hands/arms. I hit the ball longer and shot a 37. Not sure if it was a one-off thing or not, but I have always had trouble with the "body centric" swing...I have a heck of a time keeping my back to the target during the downswing. It's like my shoulders don't want any part of that, Lol.