Clubhouse Grille (*** NO LIV DISCUSSIONS ***) (*** NO POLITICS/RELIGION ***)

[Reasonability]

Lessons - Guys if there is one thing I could magically just give to each of you, it would be matching any/all who would consider it, with a truly great teaching pro locally. I've experienced the conceptual mumbo-jumbo artists more interested in his own ego than my swing.

 

I've also had just the opposite. It actually is possible to find someone out there who is a great communicator, who truly wants to help. We're talking about people who reach into you golf soul and beautifully get you from A to B. They explore OPTIONS with you to find the simplest/easiest map. They take your calls or will follow-up with you at will. Believe it or not they can become your friend - true friend who would help you golf-wise or otherwise. Such people are out there.

 

Going it alone does indeed have it's major advantages. No one is trying to turn you into anything you don't want to be or don't relate to. There's always going to be time spent between lessons trying to think and do things for yourself anyway. Golf is prolly one of THE most self-taught sports and not having outside help does carry a certain amount of pride. A man can always say, "Whatever it is or isn't... it's all mine and I'm OK with that."

 

All I can say is if you can find one of those truly good ones... it's amazing. We all tend to fix one thing and break two others in the process. An objective pair of eyes will see you doing things (right and wrong) you don't even realize you're doing. The stance and grip are hard to figure out all by your lonesome.

 

Would give anything if I could magically wave a wand and give you guys that opportunity to let a great one work with you for a couple of months. It's so understandable that so many just don't want to risk going through the process of finding a great one and wandering in the path of a poor one. It's just like finding a good Doc, or mechanic, or anything else. Some are going to rub your fur the wrong way and you never trust them. Some are just the opposite. It's SO worth it to find a great instructor. And it's fun when it happens.

 

Great post. I agree with you, IF I could find that instructor I'd love lessons. Golf is a lot like other pursuits that have "no one way" you see all kinds of swings work and all kinds of variation in instruction so it's clear that there's room for all thoughts and ways...

 

But like you mentioned, finding the perfect fit is key. I have yet to do so. I would love to find it and I know I would progress exponentially as right now I am working through the school of hard knocks...lol. If you know of anyone in Peachtree City, Fayetteville, Newnan or around Atlanta please let me know.

 

I don't know this guy. I'll have comments later this eve to go with what he says which I feel will assure what he says can be put right into practice with a squared up clubface AND plenty of clubhead speed generated efficiently and with the least amount of forced effort. More to come on that. But the reason I'm sharing here and now primarily is that were I in the Atlanta area, this is a guy I'd at least go get a lesson from to see if he is or isn't one of those golden keepers. He says many things I would agree with personally and I like the way he relates things in the swing to concepts we can all relate to before bamboozling us with mumbo jumbo. Wish I could say he is or isn't one of those great ones from personal experience.

 

 

Fella - you're hitting stepping through your own process in fine fashion if you ask me. What I want to get to here in a bit (need to step out for a while but will log back on later)... is something that I "think" may be a very fruitful thing to explore on your own. We have wrist cupping or not, shaft lean and how, and many topics sort of floating in the mix. There's a little something I'll share that I believe sets the stage pretty well to get to all those things one at a time and hope it gives you a little boost on your journey.

 

More to come.

[billh17]

I agree that lessons with a good instructor can be well worth the cost.And the problem is finding that good one.

(Reason...you need to expound on all of these posts.in the way we all have come to look for.)

I think the lessons would be great for other folks. This old dog has given up on the chase..He is quite content now to

simply enjoy all the freedom of being there,with no thoughts other than the one in my sinature. I am just happy to be

out there.

You guys have some interesting thoughts on the different topics. All of them are very well passed on to us.

Keep it up !

Judge,you need to get back in your chair and offer the courts opinion !

[Reasonability]

Oh and one more thing for Spooky before signing off.

 

Take this for what it's worth Spooky. If it's of no use to you, no hard feelings if you chuck this one in the round file.

 

Here is what I've noticed about golfers with a massive hip rotation during the downswing.

 

A) They seem to need to "frame" the trail hip with their two forearms through the strike. Many will move the trail elbow down and roll it with the trail hip through the strike. Some might do a little better with the trail elbow rolling with the belly versus the trail hip thing. But for those who really open up down around the waist, I believe most of them who play well enjoy thinking of "framing" the trail hip with the forearms through the strike.

 

B) This one may also NOT work for you but I've eyeball witnessed a number of folks with aggressive hips who did a little better when standing closer to the ball. Said differently, I've seen golfers with a massive hip turn who struggled quite a bit when they were a little too far from the ball. And to that ends, if what I'm lobbing out here actually has merit for you, there is the possibility that your lie angle may need to be bent a bit upright.

[Reasonability]

I agree that lessons with a good instructor can be well worth the cost.And the problem is finding that good one.

(Reason...you need to expound on all of these posts.in the way we all have come to look for.)

I think the lessons would be great for other folks. This old dog has given up on the chase..He is quite content now to

simply enjoy all the freedom of being there,with no thoughts other than the one in my sinature. I am just happy to be

out there.

You guys have some interesting thoughts on the different topics. All of them are very well passed on to us.

Keep it up !

Judge,you need to get back in your chair and offer the courts opinion !

 

Will do my friend. Just don't want to drop the gavel as though no one else is allowed to have a thought of their own! LOL.

 

And you're not above learning new tricks you old dog! Your club experiments are something you evidently find a little fun and share here as well!

[Spooky67]

 

I don't know this guy. I'll have comments later this eve to go with what he says which I feel will assure what he says can be put right into practice with a squared up clubface AND plenty of clubhead speed generated efficiently and with the least amount of forced effort. More to come on that. But the reason I'm sharing here and now primarily is that were I in the Atlanta area, this is a guy I'd at least go get a lesson from to see if he is or isn't one of those golden keepers. He says many things I would agree with personally and I like the way he relates things in the swing to concepts we can all relate to before bamboozling us with mumbo jumbo. Wish I could say he is or isn't one of those great ones from personal experience.

 

 

 

 

I watched this vid and a few others on his YT channel. I'll give him a shot. A lot of this is like finding the right doctor, a good recommendation from someone that knows a bit more than you always helps. Thanks!

[PeanutsDaddy]

I hope everyone had a great 4th. I heard today about the Nathan's hot dog eating championship. I didn't know

there was one but I shouldn't be surprised. All sorts of eating contests all over.

 

I forget the guy's name that won but he's a real champ; having won 5 of the past 6. He won this time by eating

….……………………….74 hot dogs in 10 minutes. The 2nd place guy ate 45. They didn't say whether there

were buns involved. If so that's just crazy...…………………….7.4 hot dogs a minute. I wish I could remember

this guys name so I could google him and see what he looks like. I'm picturing some giant but that may not be

the case.

 

Joey Chestnut is 'Da Man in competitive hot dog eating. The JN, Babe Ruth, Michael Jordon of his sport (?). New world record of 74. No buns.

 

JC was originally credited with 64 dogs eaten, but there was a mistake made (as two empty plates hadn't been counted) and the total was changed to 74.

 

To make the feat even more insane he does eat the buns. Soaks the bun in water, gobbles it down, then chases the bread down with two weiners.

 

Here's a clip that shows the last few dogs.

 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=23998262

[Conrad1953]

Man PD, that video...……..I'm thinking...……..where does 74 hot dogs and buns go? JC looks buff. Makes

you wonder if he eats some sort of hot dog dissolving pills beforehand. I don't get how a human can eat

and store that much in 10 minutes.

 

Can you imagine the throne room...…….well...……..a lotta sheet has to come out at some point. He could

probably double up and win the world's largest turd contest afterwards.

 

Please don't tell me they all go puke afterwards, lol.

[Conrad1953]

Lessons - Guys if there is one thing I could magically just give to each of you, it would be matching any/all who would consider it, with a truly great teaching pro locally. I've experienced the conceptual mumbo-jumbo artists more interested in his own ego than my swing.

 

I've also had just the opposite. It actually is possible to find someone out there who is a great communicator, who truly wants to help. We're talking about people who reach into you golf soul and beautifully get you from A to B. They explore OPTIONS with you to find the simplest/easiest map. They take your calls or will follow-up with you at will. Believe it or not they can become your friend - true friend who would help you golf-wise or otherwise. Such people are out there.

 

Going it alone does indeed have it's major advantages. No one is trying to turn you into anything you don't want to be or don't relate to. There's always going to be time spent between lessons trying to think and do things for yourself anyway. Golf is prolly one of THE most self-taught sports and not having outside help does carry a certain amount of pride. A man can always say, "Whatever it is or isn't... it's all mine and I'm OK with that."

 

All I can say is if you can find one of those truly good ones... it's amazing. We all tend to fix one thing and break two others in the process. An objective pair of eyes will see you doing things (right and wrong) you don't even realize you're doing. The stance and grip are hard to figure out all by your lonesome.

 

Would give anything if I could magically wave a wand and give you guys that opportunity to let a great one work with you for a couple of months. It's so understandable that so many just don't want to risk going through the process of finding a great one and wandering in the path of a poor one. It's just like finding a good Doc, or mechanic, or anything else. Some are going to rub your fur the wrong way and you never trust them. Some are just the opposite. It's SO worth it to find a great instructor. And it's fun when it happens.

 

Great post. I agree with you, IF I could find that instructor I'd love lessons. Golf is a lot like other pursuits that have "no one way" you see all kinds of swings work and all kinds of variation in instruction so it's clear that there's room for all thoughts and ways...

 

But like you mentioned, finding the perfect fit is key. I have yet to do so. I would love to find it and I know I would progress exponentially as right now I am working through the school of hard knocks...lol. If you know of anyone in Peachtree City, Fayetteville, Newnan or around Atlanta please let me know.

 

I don't know this guy. I'll have comments later this eve to go with what he says which I feel will assure what he says can be put right into practice with a squared up clubface AND plenty of clubhead speed generated efficiently and with the least amount of forced effort. More to come on that. But the reason I'm sharing here and now primarily is that were I in the Atlanta area, this is a guy I'd at least go get a lesson from to see if he is or isn't one of those golden keepers. He says many things I would agree with personally and I like the way he relates things in the swing to concepts we can all relate to before bamboozling us with mumbo jumbo. Wish I could say he is or isn't one of those great ones from personal experience.

 

 

Fella - you're hitting stepping through your own process in fine fashion if you ask me. What I want to get to here in a bit (need to step out for a while but will log back on later)... is something that I "think" may be a very fruitful thing to explore on your own. We have wrist cupping or not, shaft lean and how, and many topics sort of floating in the mix. There's a little something I'll share that I believe sets the stage pretty well to get to all those things one at a time and hope it gives you a little boost on your journey.

 

More to come.

 

 

That is an excellent video! We've talked a lot about centrifugal force in here in the past (with the usual

disclaimer that we know it's not a force but instead the conservation of angular momentum).

 

This notion of the clubface squaring on it's own is a huge one...…...getting control by letting go of control.

And getting more speed as an added bonus.

 

I like this guy. He explains and demonstrates this in a simple and understandable way. It's good because

when he gets to things we may not know about we can trust he will do the same. Good stuff for a visual

learner like moi.

 

If you go see him Spooky, please keep us in the loop and let us know how it's going.

[tolmij]

Now looky here Spooky, how are we ever going to hit 1000 pages if you continue to multi post. Its the responsibility of all Grillers to work towards this goal.

 

 

;) ;) ;)

[Reasonability]

Here's one of two "things" I'd encourage anyone to at least touch. (The other will be in a separate post). This first one is rarely talked about. And it needs to be. Cause IF you work on anything you've read, or seen on YouTube, or heard, or if you're just dinking around on your own, there's a true check to see if what you're doing passes the sniff test and is something you need to stick with or not. A-Swing, Stack/Tilt, Rotary, Hogan, Little Red Book... doesn't matter. The ONLY two real precursors are a good grip, and a reasonably good setup. After that, there's a point we can all check and do to see if things are on track or if we're trading one set of problems for another on the journey.

 

Here tiz:

 

It's AFTER impact. For our little tire-kicking we'll call it post-impact. We're talking from about 2-3 feet beyond where the ball was sitting before striking it to about halfway up the follow-through swing. We can all do something right through there that is POWERFUL. That's a point where for the first true moment in the swing, the trail arm is fully extended and the back of the trail wrist is fully flattened out. There's a tiny bit of bend in the trail elbow at address. During takeaway, that elbow bends more and more as the trail wrist gets this "cup" in the back of it. We start back down and let that bent elbow and bent wrist basically go for a ride to impact. We might be in the process of straightening that elbow going into impact and we may perhaps be barely starting to dump that bend in the back of the trail wrist at impact, but its only AFTER impact that the trail arm and wrist move from going for a ride to being fully extended.

 

Now, if we took and easy half or 3/4 swing it wouldn't be too difficult to stop the swing halfway up into the follow-through and check something.

 

WHERE IS THE TRAIL PALM FACING???? If its facing a little skyward from a couple of feet past the original ball position, you just managed to "hold off" your release. You've introduced a huge likelihood of a blocked push shot or a push-slice.

 

IF the trail hand palm at this point is facing more toward the ground, you've done the exact opposite and whatever it is you're working on is now introducing the pull shot and duck-hook.

 

Now right in between these two potential trail palm conditions is the perfect one. It looks and feels like you're about to shake hands with some approaching you from the target side of your stance. If you opened your hand at that point the thumb would point pretty much straight up.

 

So make a slow/easy dry swing (no ball) with that trail arm finally extend post-impact and pause right there. Your trail arm is for the first time fully extended and your trail wrist has now lost all of it little cupping in the back of it. Are you palm up, palm down, or in-between?

 

No one talks about this one. Impact takes something like 2 milliseconds but gets talked about deep into the night. Understandably there's good reason to talk about plane, and wrist set, and tons of good stuff like knee and foot work, All cool. BUT, if anything you're doing does NOT pass this test, you need to work backwards and re calibrate and figure out what it's going to take to get things to pass this test.

 

Said differently, when making sure this post-impact test is up and running - THEN go play with shaft lean or plane, or transition or whatever else you feel like exploring and when you do... you'll KNOW you're not playing with one-bucket wonders. You'll KNOW whatever it is you're doing will hold up from club to club, up and down through the bag, day after day.

 

Because the ball is already gone, and because impact itself was only a couple of milliseconds, this post-impact thing is overlooked. IT'S A MONSTER!

 

I challenge my buds here to go hit balls and force that trail palm downward post-impact. Then force it to face the sky. You'll be able to do either within just a few swings. Then get it to that extended, flat-wristed, handshake position. Do ten of those in a row and you'll know the difference.

 

It sometimes bugs me that we hear (not always but often) about swinging it this way or that, or things to do to cure a hook or a slice, or how to transition, yadda yadda. And in the process, we so rarely hear anyone say that you can lean the shaft or you can fade or draw it this way or that way... and yet leave this little sniff test out of the discussion.

 

The next post is sort of in this same realm of something we can't escape and isn't that hard to do once you do it a couple of times.

[Reasonability]

Again, Hogan, Golf My Way, whatever a friend or relative said, what Neil Sedaka said in a song (is he still around?)....

 

There's another inescapable "thing" everyone who hits a golf ball has to accomplish. And it's so simple yet so lost once we get wrapped around the axle trying to make a "perfect" backswing or perfectly transfer weight and such.

 

Here's that one...(and I'll give you a little acid test to see if you might be fighting it, too. And if so, join the masses all suffering the same exact issue).

 

 

The trail arm must FEEL like it passes the lead hand. Specifically, if you were standing with arms hanging at your sides, and simulated a golf swing with your trail arm ONLY (lead arm still just hanging at the side)... the trail wrist and it's cup in the back of it and the way it remain bent until impact and THEN fully extends... that trail arm HAS to pass the hanging lead arm. Yes, we have both hands on the club in a real swing and yes there's technical mumbo-jumbo in play as to HOW this all works out in reality. But here's you're little test to see if you're actually in a little trouble with the idea of getting the trail arm to MOVE through the strike well or not.

 

Take your address with a club in hand just as though you're about to swing the stupid thing. Now drop you lead hand off the handle and just let it hang down. Try making a trail hand/arm ONLY swing. Are you finding it horribly strange to move through the strike at the bottom half of your downswing? Doe's if feel almost like the trail wrist is totally lost and doesn't know what to do to move that club past your feet?

 

If so, take the club out of your hands and make dry swings with the right arm only. Move the trail able and bend right wrist down in front of the trail hip and roll them together through the strike extending the trail arm PAST the ball. See if you can stay in your spine posture the whole time without standing straight up. Probably will FEEL a lot like an under-handed baseball pitch in many ways. But let your trail arm and hand pass right by your handing lead arm. NOW... put both hands on the club and hit a ball, making SURE your get that right arm to pass right over where your lead hand and arm were at address. Let your whole entire trail side, (hip. knee, shoulder, the whole smash) roll around your spine all the way to the finish pose.

 

Do this and look at two things.

 

A) How far were you hitting any club in the bag before doing this and compare that to how far you're now hitting it. (Hint: you're clubhead speed just went way up without even trying.)

 

B) If you typically had a shot dispersion of let's say 10 yards left to 10 yards right (typically)... what is the shot dispersion now???

 

I've got ten bucks that says it goes farther and straighter.

 

We get hung up on a lot of things in golf. TONS of things. At the end of the day we have to get the trail arm to FEEL like it passes the lead arm and we need that sniff test (post-impact) to tell us if whatever it is we're working on at a given point along the journey is - or isn't - actually helping.

 

IF...a golfer can NOT see on thin dime's worth of improvement with the post-impact thing... and/or IF he cannot find the slightest gain in accuracy and clubhead speed getting the trail arm to pass the lead arm... then one of two things is true. A) He's a pro golfer. B) It's time to work backwards on the grip and setup. I suppose there could be "C" which would potentially be his grip and setup are great but he's found a way to make some pretty unusual motions going back and through such as significant posture changes, balance and rhythm issues, etc. So there might be that possibility in the mix. It's safe to say if he's got it basically right (within reason) on his basic set up and general balance and tempo... I'd eat my hat if this rant doesn't hold water.

 

Now how the heck would I be so certain?????

 

Three GREAT instructors.

[scotee]

Here's one of two "things" I'd encourage anyone to at least touch. (The other will be in a separate post). This first one is rarely talked about. And it needs to be. Cause IF you work on anything you've read, or seen on YouTube, or heard, or if you're just dinking around on your own, there's a true check to see if what you're doing passes the sniff test and is something you need to stick with or not. A-Swing, Stack/Tilt, Rotary, Hogan, Little Red Book... doesn't matter. The ONLY two real precursors are a good grip, and a reasonably good setup. After that, there's a point we can all check and do to see if things are on track or if we're trading one set of problems for another on the journey.

 

Here tiz:

 

It's AFTER impact. For our little tire-kicking we'll call it post-impact. We're talking from about 2-3 feet beyond where the ball was sitting before striking it to about halfway up the follow-through swing. We can all do something right through there that is POWERFUL. That's a point where for the first true moment in the swing, the trail arm is fully extended and the back of the trail wrist is fully flattened out. There's a tiny bit of bend in the trail elbow at address. During takeaway, that elbow bends more and more as the trail wrist gets this "cup" in the back of it. We start back down and let that bent elbow and bent wrist basically go for a ride to impact. We might be in the process of straightening that elbow going into impact and we may perhaps be barely starting to dump that bend in the back of the trail wrist at impact, but its only AFTER impact that the trail arm and wrist move from going for a ride to being fully extended.

 

Now, if we took and easy half or 3/4 swing it wouldn't be too difficult to stop the swing halfway up into the follow-through and check something.

 

WHERE IS THE TRAIL PALM FACING???? If its facing a little skyward from a couple of feet past the original ball position, you just managed to "hold off" your release. You've introduced a huge likelihood of a blocked push shot or a push-slice.

 

IF the trail hand palm at this point is facing more toward the ground, you've done the exact opposite and whatever it is you're working on is now introducing the pull shot and duck-hook.

 

Now right in between these two potential trail palm conditions is the perfect one. It looks and feels like you're about to shake hands with some approaching you from the target side of your stance. If you opened your hand at that point the thumb would point pretty much straight up.

 

So make a slow/easy dry swing (no ball) with that trail arm finally extend post-impact and pause right there. Your trail arm is for the first time fully extended and your trail wrist has now lost all of it little cupping in the back of it. Are you palm up, palm down, or in-between?

 

No one talks about this one. Impact takes something like 2 milliseconds but gets talked about deep into the night. Understandably there's good reason to talk about plane, and wrist set, and tons of good stuff like knee and foot work, All cool. BUT, if anything you're doing does NOT pass this test, you need to work backwards and re calibrate and figure out what it's going to take to get things to pass this test.

 

Said differently, when making sure this post-impact test is up and running - THEN go play with shaft lean or plane, or transition or whatever else you feel like exploring and when you do... you'll KNOW you're not playing with one-bucket wonders. You'll KNOW whatever it is you're doing will hold up from club to club, up and down through the bag, day after day.

 

Because the ball is already gone, and because impact itself was only a couple of milliseconds, this post-impact thing is overlooked. IT'S A MONSTER!

 

I challenge my buds here to go hit balls and force that trail palm downward post-impact. Then force it to face the sky. You'll be able to do either within just a few swings. Then get it to that extended, flat-wristed, handshake position. Do ten of those in a row and you'll know the difference.

 

It sometimes bugs me that we hear (not always but often) about swinging it this way or that, or things to do to cure a hook or a slice, or how to transition, yadda yadda. And in the process, we so rarely hear anyone say that you can lean the shaft or you can fade or draw it this way or that way... and yet leave this little sniff test out of the discussion.

 

The next post is sort of in this same realm of something we can't escape and isn't that hard to do once you do it a couple of times.

 

ROTM! ( Is that even a thing?) :) but yes right on the money. I used to teach junior golf in my little town for a few weeks in the Summer. I would line up the kids and have them reach down the line and shake hands to demo this. Post impact stuff can be very helpful even though the ball is long gone. I also had them throw old clubs into the net from fairly close range. The first time I tried it myself I was too far from the net and missed the net way to the left. I learned something.

[Reasonability]

So when we want shaft lean for example. OK - There's a few ways I suppose to do that. Each has to STILL pass these little tests or it will never make it from day to day or from the range to the course. But let's say we simply moved the ball back in the stance about one ball diameter and just did a normal swing. Well so long as we don't "see" that ball a little farther back and react by sharply picking the club straight up and slamming it sharply down, we just made it to ball-first and shaft lean nirvana. But we'd KNOW if it's working if it passes these sniff tests.

 

We could get shaft lead by repeated drill of hitting the ball off the lead foot with the trail foot pulled back and standing on it's toes. (Promotes getting the handle more forward of the ball before unhinging the wrists). OK, great, but if in doing so the trail palm is facing the sky too much post-impact, we just succeeded in learning to lean the shaft while also teaching ourselves to block and slice the crap out of the longer clubs.

 

What about getting that handle to "round the corner" (beautifully done in Scotee's second video). OK do that! It's a great thing, isn't it? Still has to pass the sniff tests or we'll never be able to use it once a scorecard is in the pocket.

 

Me? I tend to get all over making sure the trail knee doesn't drift over the trail foot GOING BACK. I get all hung up on completing the backswing and making a full shoulder turn - GOING BACK. I want a flat lead wrist - AT THE TOP. I want the trail elbow flowing the trail hip - THROUGH THE STRIKE.

 

Well those are all really cool things but guess what? None of it is worth the powder it takes to blow it to hell until or unless I can simply get the trail arm past the lead arm's address position (at least FEEL like it does) and that post-impact thing needs to happen. I OFTEN fail the post-impact test. And when I do, it's time to go backwards and figure out why.

 

It's impossible to get to these little sniff tests until or unless you're making a great move through the ball. You may not look like Rory or Adam Scott getting there, but if you get there and can do it YOUR way and STILL pass these little checkpoints... IMHO you're on the right track.

 

So with all that said, I'd fully encourage leaning the shaft with knuckles down, or elbows squeezed, or ball position, or lead foot drills. Maybe go dink with the setup and ball positions that flight it higher or lower, or whatever give yous a little bit of fun on the journey. You now know for sure what will "stick" and is worth keeping. We all want consistency. Your swing may just naturally produce a lower fade or a mid-trajectory draw. Cool! That just happens inside of that thing you do. It's all good!

 

This stuff is fun once you put it to work. I can PROMISE you, you'll hear someone in future suggesting they've gone to a "new" weight shift or different way to glide their zipper in transition. But as you hear it... you'll always wonder if they've managed to simply get their trail arm (and entire trail side for that matter) through the shot, and if they have a post-impact hand that will send it longer and straighter (or not).

 

I'm now all barfed-out.

 

Someone else take a whack at this stuff - PLEASE! LMAO.

[Conrad1953]

LOL, great stuff Judge. I should clarify. I misspoke about my "holding off". It's a "feel" of not flipping; which

feels like holding off but isn't in the sense of holding the face open or keeping the toe of the club at bay,

 

Ah, these terms...…………...I should leave them alone and use plain English, lol.

[Reasonability]

LOL, great stuff Judge. I should clarify. I misspoke about my "holding off". It's a "feel" of not flipping; which

feels like holding off but isn't in the sense of holding the face open or keeping the toe of the club at bay,

 

Ah, these terms...…………...I should leave them alone and use plain English, lol.

 

Sure didn't mean to dissect your shaft lean in a way that made is sound all wrong my friend. Totally wasn't my intent - I promise. lol

 

Was actually fulfilling a promise to Fella more than anything. He's panning for gold as he moves from a trustier grip to maybe the wrists to other stepping stones. Just wanted to give him some "go-to" tricks and techniques to shorten the learning curve a little - as he navigates and tries out different options.

 

Looking back on it - I pulled that famous I&A stunt where one guy asserted something or made an observation and the next thing you know along comes the "smartest man in the room" blowing his post to shreds. Sorry my friend. I got lost in the moment there!

[Conrad1953]

LOL, great stuff Judge. I should clarify. I misspoke about my "holding off". It's a "feel" of not flipping; which

feels like holding off but isn't in the sense of holding the face open or keeping the toe of the club at bay,

 

Ah, these terms...…………...I should leave them alone and use plain English, lol.

 

Sure didn't mean to dissect your shaft lean in a way that made is sound all wrong my friend. Totally wasn't my intent - I promise. lol

 

Was actually fulfilling a promise to Fella more than anything. He's panning for gold as he moves from a trustier grip to maybe the wrists to other stepping stones. Just wanted to give him some "go-to" tricks and techniques to shorten the learning curve a little - as he navigates and tries out different options.

 

Looking back on it - I pulled that famous I&A stunt where one guy asserted something or made an observation and the next thing you know along comes the "smartest man in the room" blowing his post to shreds. Sorry my friend. I got lost in the moment there!

 

No biggie. I'm learning I better choose my words more carefully. As we say......the learning never stops! :D

[tolmij]

LOL, great stuff Judge. I should clarify. I misspoke about my "holding off". It's a "feel" of not flipping; which

feels like holding off but isn't in the sense of holding the face open or keeping the toe of the club at bay,

 

Ah, these terms...…………...I should leave them alone and use plain English, lol.

 

Sure didn't mean to dissect your shaft lean in a way that made is sound all wrong my friend. Totally wasn't my intent - I promise. lol

 

Was actually fulfilling a promise to Fella more than anything. He's panning for gold as he moves from a trustier grip to maybe the wrists to other stepping stones. Just wanted to give him some "go-to" tricks and techniques to shorten the learning curve a little - as he navigates and tries out different options.

 

Looking back on it - I pulled that famous I&A stunt where one guy asserted something or made an observation and the next thing you know along comes the "smartest man in the room" blowing his post to shreds. Sorry my friend. I got lost in the moment there!

 

 

It’s the responsibility of yourself and Big Stu to keep us in check, go for it. One of these days we may take notice.

[Fellaheen51]

I agree that lessons with a good instructor can be well worth the cost.And the problem is finding that good one.

(Reason...you need to expound on all of these posts.in the way we all have come to look for.)

I think the lessons would be great for other folks. This old dog has given up on the chase..He is quite content now to

simply enjoy all the freedom of being there,with no thoughts other than the one in my sinature. I am just happy to be

out there.

You guys have some interesting thoughts on the different topics. All of them are very well passed on to us.

Keep it up !

Judge,you need to get back in your chair and offer the courts opinion !

 

You pretty much nailed it with your comment Bill. The essence of the whole endeavor. Simply enjoying the opportunity to participate. Good, bad or indifferent. Because outcomes don't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. The time spent trying, with whom and where is the important part. Wouldn't trade any of my time spent playing with and laughs shared with the close buds for a whole raft of lessons. (Perhaps a bit of exaggeration, but not by much.)

 

Despite all the proclamations about swing, gear, grips, etc., as if I'm going to really get THAT much better. Couple of strokes, a few yards, perhaps a couple effective pitches or putts made along the way. But if not, meh. What's the diff? We had fun whacking it around for a few hours. And tomorrow is always going to be the day.

[tolmij]

I agree that lessons with a good instructor can be well worth the cost.And the problem is finding that good one.

(Reason...you need to expound on all of these posts.in the way we all have come to look for.)

I think the lessons would be great for other folks. This old dog has given up on the chase..He is quite content now to

simply enjoy all the freedom of being there,with no thoughts other than the one in my sinature. I am just happy to be

out there.

You guys have some interesting thoughts on the different topics. All of them are very well passed on to us.

Keep it up !

Judge,you need to get back in your chair and offer the courts opinion !

 

You pretty much nailed it with your comment Bill. The essence of the whole endeavor. Simply enjoying the opportunity to participate. Good, bad or indifferent. Because outcomes don't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. The time spent trying, with whom and where is the important part. Wouldn't trade any of my time spent playing with and laughs shared with the close buds for a whole raft of lessons. (Perhaps a bit of exaggeration, but not by much.)

 

Despite all the proclamations about swing, gear, grips, etc., as if I'm going to really get THAT much better. Couple of strokes, a few yards, perhaps a couple effective pitches or putts made along the way. But if not, meh. What's the diff? We had fun whacking it around for a few hours. And tomorrow is always going to be the day.

 

 

A sentiment I agree with, tomorrow will be the day, but, as DW keeps reminding me tomorrow never comes.

[Reasonability]

One fine day I'll learn to follow my initial instincts on wrx. Anytime I think I'd be a little better off not posting - I'm right. Apologies to the gang.

 

Versus my words - someone asked about getting their range game to the course. Here's someone else's words on ways to do that:

 

https://www.golfchannel.com/article/golf-instruction/make-sure-choose-proper-practice-technique/

 

Later boys.

[BIG STU]

LOL, great stuff Judge. I should clarify. I misspoke about my "holding off". It's a "feel" of not flipping; which

feels like holding off but isn't in the sense of holding the face open or keeping the toe of the club at bay,

 

Ah, these terms...…………...I should leave them alone and use plain English, lol.

 

Sure didn't mean to dissect your shaft lean in a way that made is sound all wrong my friend. Totally wasn't my intent - I promise. lol

 

Was actually fulfilling a promise to Fella more than anything. He's panning for gold as he moves from a trustier grip to maybe the wrists to other stepping stones. Just wanted to give him some "go-to" tricks and techniques to shorten the learning curve a little - as he navigates and tries out different options.

 

Looking back on it - I pulled that famous I&A stunt where one guy asserted something or made an observation and the next thing you know along comes the "smartest man in the room" blowing his post to shreds. Sorry my friend. I got lost in the moment there!

 

 

It’s the responsibility of yourself and Big Stu to keep us in check, go for it. One of these days we may take notice.

I ain't a swing guru or instructor--- Now if you want clubs built and tuned then that is my department

[billh17]

Here's one of two "things" I'd encourage anyone to at least touch. (The other will be in a separate post). This first one is rarely talked about. And it needs to be. Cause IF you work on anything you've read, or seen on YouTube, or heard, or if you're just dinking around on your own, there's a true check to see if what you're doing passes the sniff test and is something you need to stick with or not. A-Swing, Stack/Tilt, Rotary, Hogan, Little Red Book... doesn't matter. The ONLY two real precursors are a good grip, and a reasonably good setup. After that, there's a point we can all check and do to see if things are on track or if we're trading one set of problems for another on the journey.

 

Here tiz:

 

It's AFTER impact. For our little tire-kicking we'll call it post-impact. We're talking from about 2-3 feet beyond where the ball was sitting before striking it to about halfway up the follow-through swing. We can all do something right through there that is POWERFUL. That's a point where for the first true moment in the swing, the trail arm is fully extended and the back of the trail wrist is fully flattened out. There's a tiny bit of bend in the trail elbow at address. During takeaway, that elbow bends more and more as the trail wrist gets this "cup" in the back of it. We start back down and let that bent elbow and bent wrist basically go for a ride to impact. We might be in the process of straightening that elbow going into impact and we may perhaps be barely starting to dump that bend in the back of the trail wrist at impact, but its only AFTER impact that the trail arm and wrist move from going for a ride to being fully extended.

 

Now, if we took and easy half or 3/4 swing it wouldn't be too difficult to stop the swing halfway up into the follow-through and check something.

 

WHERE IS THE TRAIL PALM FACING???? If its facing a little skyward from a couple of feet past the original ball position, you just managed to "hold off" your release. You've introduced a huge likelihood of a blocked push shot or a push-slice.

 

IF the trail hand palm at this point is facing more toward the ground, you've done the exact opposite and whatever it is you're working on is now introducing the pull shot and duck-hook.

 

Now right in between these two potential trail palm conditions is the perfect one. It looks and feels like you're about to shake hands with some approaching you from the target side of your stance. If you opened your hand at that point the thumb would point pretty much straight up.

 

So make a slow/easy dry swing (no ball) with that trail arm finally extend post-impact and pause right there. Your trail arm is for the first time fully extended and your trail wrist has now lost all of it little cupping in the back of it. Are you palm up, palm down, or in-between?

 

No one talks about this one. Impact takes something like 2 milliseconds but gets talked about deep into the night. Understandably there's good reason to talk about plane, and wrist set, and tons of good stuff like knee and foot work, All cool. BUT, if anything you're doing does NOT pass this test, you need to work backwards and re calibrate and figure out what it's going to take to get things to pass this test.

 

Said differently, when making sure this post-impact test is up and running - THEN go play with shaft lean or plane, or transition or whatever else you feel like exploring and when you do... you'll KNOW you're not playing with one-bucket wonders. You'll KNOW whatever it is you're doing will hold up from club to club, up and down through the bag, day after day.

 

Because the ball is already gone, and because impact itself was only a couple of milliseconds, this post-impact thing is overlooked. IT'S A MONSTER!

 

I challenge my buds here to go hit balls and force that trail palm downward post-impact. Then force it to face the sky. You'll be able to do either within just a few swings. Then get it to that extended, flat-wristed, handshake position. Do ten of those in a row and you'll know the difference.

 

It sometimes bugs me that we hear (not always but often) about swinging it this way or that, or things to do to cure a hook or a slice, or how to transition, yadda yadda. And in the process, we so rarely hear anyone say that you can lean the shaft or you can fade or draw it this way or that way... and yet leave this little sniff test out of the discussion.

 

The next post is sort of in this same realm of something we can't escape and isn't that hard to do once you do it a couple of times.

 

Thats the Judge we all like to read !!

[billh17]

Just finished a nice round....thunderboomers slid east and south of the course... hit the driver about as good as i am gonna get.

The irons were pretty good. I have truly lost almost 10 yards with the One Length irons. Now ..in my younger life , complex,need to know

how something works,I would have started from scratch and fretted over this issue until I determined why. I am officially an old

and hopefully wiser golfer now. I have just accepted that the yardages are different and i adjusted my club selection to cover it...lol

Simple solution to a rather interesting problem. I DID take my regular old Variable length 6 and 8 and wedge and experimented,just

to be sure...they are between 7 and 10 yards longer then the One Lengths. As long as I am on/close to the green with iron shots,

I am happy with the change in club distances. I do think I will continue using these. I may be getting to where I like them !

[Spooky67]

Now looky here Spooky, how are we ever going to hit 1000 pages if you continue to multi post. Its the responsibility of all Grillers to work towards this goal.

 

 

;) ;) ;)

 

Noted...I like your style. :)

[Spooky67]

Here's one of two "things" I'd encourage anyone to at least touch. (The other will be in a separate post). This first one is rarely talked about. And it needs to be. Cause IF you work on anything you've read, or seen on YouTube, or heard, or if you're just dinking around on your own, there's a true check to see if what you're doing passes the sniff test and is something you need to stick with or not. A-Swing, Stack/Tilt, Rotary, Hogan, Little Red Book... doesn't matter. The ONLY two real precursors are a good grip, and a reasonably good setup. After that, there's a point we can all check and do to see if things are on track or if we're trading one set of problems for another on the journey.

 

Here tiz:

 

It's AFTER impact. For our little tire-kicking we'll call it post-impact. We're talking from about 2-3 feet beyond where the ball was sitting before striking it to about halfway up the follow-through swing. We can all do something right through there that is POWERFUL. That's a point where for the first true moment in the swing, the trail arm is fully extended and the back of the trail wrist is fully flattened out. There's a tiny bit of bend in the trail elbow at address. During takeaway, that elbow bends more and more as the trail wrist gets this "cup" in the back of it. We start back down and let that bent elbow and bent wrist basically go for a ride to impact. We might be in the process of straightening that elbow going into impact and we may perhaps be barely starting to dump that bend in the back of the trail wrist at impact, but its only AFTER impact that the trail arm and wrist move from going for a ride to being fully extended.

 

Now, if we took and easy half or 3/4 swing it wouldn't be too difficult to stop the swing halfway up into the follow-through and check something.

 

WHERE IS THE TRAIL PALM FACING???? If its facing a little skyward from a couple of feet past the original ball position, you just managed to "hold off" your release. You've introduced a huge likelihood of a blocked push shot or a push-slice.

 

IF the trail hand palm at this point is facing more toward the ground, you've done the exact opposite and whatever it is you're working on is now introducing the pull shot and duck-hook.

 

Now right in between these two potential trail palm conditions is the perfect one. It looks and feels like you're about to shake hands with some approaching you from the target side of your stance. If you opened your hand at that point the thumb would point pretty much straight up.

 

So make a slow/easy dry swing (no ball) with that trail arm finally extend post-impact and pause right there. Your trail arm is for the first time fully extended and your trail wrist has now lost all of it little cupping in the back of it. Are you palm up, palm down, or in-between?

 

No one talks about this one. Impact takes something like 2 milliseconds but gets talked about deep into the night. Understandably there's good reason to talk about plane, and wrist set, and tons of good stuff like knee and foot work, All cool. BUT, if anything you're doing does NOT pass this test, you need to work backwards and re calibrate and figure out what it's going to take to get things to pass this test.

 

Said differently, when making sure this post-impact test is up and running - THEN go play with shaft lean or plane, or transition or whatever else you feel like exploring and when you do... you'll KNOW you're not playing with one-bucket wonders. You'll KNOW whatever it is you're doing will hold up from club to club, up and down through the bag, day after day.

 

Because the ball is already gone, and because impact itself was only a couple of milliseconds, this post-impact thing is overlooked. IT'S A MONSTER!

 

I challenge my buds here to go hit balls and force that trail palm downward post-impact. Then force it to face the sky. You'll be able to do either within just a few swings. Then get it to that extended, flat-wristed, handshake position. Do ten of those in a row and you'll know the difference.

 

It sometimes bugs me that we hear (not always but often) about swinging it this way or that, or things to do to cure a hook or a slice, or how to transition, yadda yadda. And in the process, we so rarely hear anyone say that you can lean the shaft or you can fade or draw it this way or that way... and yet leave this little sniff test out of the discussion.

 

The next post is sort of in this same realm of something we can't escape and isn't that hard to do once you do it a couple of times.

 

Great advice here and much appreciated. I struggle with consistency so having a known hand position to focus on will help me for sure.

[Spooky67]

Again, Hogan, Golf My Way, whatever a friend or relative said, what Neil Sedaka said in a song (is he still around?)....

 

There's another inescapable "thing" everyone who hits a golf ball has to accomplish. And it's so simple yet so lost once we get wrapped around the axle trying to make a "perfect" backswing or perfectly transfer weight and such.

 

Here's that one...(and I'll give you a little acid test to see if you might be fighting it, too. And if so, join the masses all suffering the same exact issue).

 

 

The trail arm must FEEL like it passes the lead hand. Specifically, if you were standing with arms hanging at your sides, and simulated a golf swing with your trail arm ONLY (lead arm still just hanging at the side)... the trail wrist and it's cup in the back of it and the way it remain bent until impact and THEN fully extends... that trail arm HAS to pass the hanging lead arm. Yes, we have both hands on the club in a real swing and yes there's technical mumbo-jumbo in play as to HOW this all works out in reality. But here's you're little test to see if you're actually in a little trouble with the idea of getting the trail arm to MOVE through the strike well or not.

 

Take your address with a club in hand just as though you're about to swing the stupid thing. Now drop you lead hand off the handle and just let it hang down. Try making a trail hand/arm ONLY swing. Are you finding it horribly strange to move through the strike at the bottom half of your downswing? Doe's if feel almost like the trail wrist is totally lost and doesn't know what to do to move that club past your feet?

 

If so, take the club out of your hands and make dry swings with the right arm only. Move the trail able and bend right wrist down in front of the trail hip and roll them together through the strike extending the trail arm PAST the ball. See if you can stay in your spine posture the whole time without standing straight up. Probably will FEEL a lot like an under-handed baseball pitch in many ways. But let your trail arm and hand pass right by your handing lead arm. NOW... put both hands on the club and hit a ball, making SURE your get that right arm to pass right over where your lead hand and arm were at address. Let your whole entire trail side, (hip. knee, shoulder, the whole smash) roll around your spine all the way to the finish pose.

 

Do this and look at two things.

 

A) How far were you hitting any club in the bag before doing this and compare that to how far you're now hitting it. (Hint: you're clubhead speed just went way up without even trying.)

 

B) If you typically had a shot dispersion of let's say 10 yards left to 10 yards right (typically)... what is the shot dispersion now???

 

I've got ten bucks that says it goes farther and straighter.

 

We get hung up on a lot of things in golf. TONS of things. At the end of the day we have to get the trail arm to FEEL like it passes the lead arm and we need that sniff test (post-impact) to tell us if whatever it is we're working on at a given point along the journey is - or isn't - actually helping.

 

IF...a golfer can NOT see on thin dime's worth of improvement with the post-impact thing... and/or IF he cannot find the slightest gain in accuracy and clubhead speed getting the trail arm to pass the lead arm... then one of two things is true. A) He's a pro golfer. B) It's time to work backwards on the grip and setup. I suppose there could be "C" which would potentially be his grip and setup are great but he's found a way to make some pretty unusual motions going back and through such as significant posture changes, balance and rhythm issues, etc. So there might be that possibility in the mix. It's safe to say if he's got it basically right (within reason) on his basic set up and general balance and tempo... I'd eat my hat if this rant doesn't hold water.

 

Now how the heck would I be so certain?????

 

Three GREAT instructors.

 

I like it. When I am driving the ball my best I am aware of my trail arm being very active in the swing, I need to try this with my irons too.

[Spooky67]

So when we want shaft lean for example. OK - There's a few ways I suppose to do that. Each has to STILL pass these little tests or it will never make it from day to day or from the range to the course. But let's say we simply moved the ball back in the stance about one ball diameter and just did a normal swing. Well so long as we don't "see" that ball a little farther back and react by sharply picking the club straight up and slamming it sharply down, we just made it to ball-first and shaft lean nirvana. But we'd KNOW if it's working if it passes these sniff tests.

 

We could get shaft lead by repeated drill of hitting the ball off the lead foot with the trail foot pulled back and standing on it's toes. (Promotes getting the handle more forward of the ball before unhinging the wrists). OK, great, but if in doing so the trail palm is facing the sky too much post-impact, we just succeeded in learning to lean the shaft while also teaching ourselves to block and slice the crap out of the longer clubs.

 

What about getting that handle to "round the corner" (beautifully done in Scotee's second video). OK do that! It's a great thing, isn't it? Still has to pass the sniff tests or we'll never be able to use it once a scorecard is in the pocket.

 

Me? I tend to get all over making sure the trail knee doesn't drift over the trail foot GOING BACK. I get all hung up on completing the backswing and making a full shoulder turn - GOING BACK. I want a flat lead wrist - AT THE TOP. I want the trail elbow flowing the trail hip - THROUGH THE STRIKE.

 

Well those are all really cool things but guess what? None of it is worth the powder it takes to blow it to hell until or unless I can simply get the trail arm past the lead arm's address position (at least FEEL like it does) and that post-impact thing needs to happen. I OFTEN fail the post-impact test. And when I do, it's time to go backwards and figure out why.

 

It's impossible to get to these little sniff tests until or unless you're making a great move through the ball. You may not look like Rory or Adam Scott getting there, but if you get there and can do it YOUR way and STILL pass these little checkpoints... IMHO you're on the right track.

 

So with all that said, I'd fully encourage leaning the shaft with knuckles down, or elbows squeezed, or ball position, or lead foot drills. Maybe go dink with the setup and ball positions that flight it higher or lower, or whatever give yous a little bit of fun on the journey. You now know for sure what will "stick" and is worth keeping. We all want consistency. Your swing may just naturally produce a lower fade or a mid-trajectory draw. Cool! That just happens inside of that thing you do. It's all good!

 

This stuff is fun once you put it to work. I can PROMISE you, you'll hear someone in future suggesting they've gone to a "new" weight shift or different way to glide their zipper in transition. But as you hear it... you'll always wonder if they've managed to simply get their trail arm (and entire trail side for that matter) through the shot, and if they have a post-impact hand that will send it longer and straighter (or not).

 

I'm now all barfed-out.

 

Someone else take a whack at this stuff - PLEASE! LMAO.

 

You've put in some serious work with these posts! It's awesome that you are sharing this stuff. I have taken a few bits and pieces from videos on YT and I have had success when I incorporate them into my swing, but inevitably I'll tweak something else then this doesn't work with that...etc...etc. Having some checkpoint ideas to work on will keep me focused on some good sound fundamental positions without having to dissect every move I'm making.

 

I'm at the point where a lower score matters to me, I do not like shooting low 100s- yes, I enjoy being out and playing, but I'd enjoy it more If I was much more consistent with my ball striking and could re-brake 90. Thanks for the help!

[Spooky67]

Saw this vid today.

 

 

Of course the title is a bit of click bait but the “pulling the handle” mentions intrigued me. That’s exactly how I learned to hit a softball- throw the knob of the bat at the ball and the rest just happens.? The arms first intrigues me too as I’ve always spun out like the jr. golfers Tiger mentioned, but I never had their ability to keep the club head on the ball.

 

Again, just another swing thought for myself. I’ve come to realize that y’all are light years ahead of me in your golf journeys so I appreciate your tolerance with noobish swing thoughts. I guess my journey was backwards than some of yours. I played as a kid with my dad, maybe twice a year.? Driving range once or twice a year? It was just father son time no focus on the game.

 

As I got older it was the same, just with friends. Here and there, never regular, never serious. Have a few beers and whack a ball around. I did have a stretch with a regular playing partner where I played once a week for a year or more and got pretty consistent, but it was still casual.

 

I’m playing as much as I can now, even if I’m playing alone just to get on the course and think about shots. But it’s still once a week max with practice swings and putting at home daily. I guess I’m just starting my journey in a way.

[Conrad1953]

Saw this vid today.

 

 

Of course the title is a bit of click bait but the “pulling the handle” mentions intrigued me. That’s exactly how I learned to hit a softball- throw the knob of the bat at the ball and the rest just happens.? The arms first intrigues me too as I’ve always spun out like the jr. golfers Tiger mentioned, but I never had their ability to keep the club head on the ball.

 

Again, just another swing thought for myself. I’ve come to realize that y’all are light years ahead of me in your golf journeys so I appreciate your tolerance with noobish swing thoughts. I guess my journey was backwards than some of yours. I played as a kid with my dad, maybe twice a year.? Driving range once or twice a year? It was just father son time no focus on the game.

 

As I got older it was the same, just with friends. Here and there, never regular, never serious. Have a few beers and whack a ball around. I did have a stretch with a regular playing partner where I played once a week for a year or more and got pretty consistent, but it was still casual.

 

I’m playing as much as I can now, even if I’m playing alone just to get on the course and think about shots. But it’s still once a week max with practice swings and putting at home daily. I guess I’m just starting my journey in a way.

 

Spooky, my golf history is similar to yours. I would play a lot for a few years and then hardly play at all

for several, then play a lot again, then hardly play again. I repeated this pattern over and over for 40

years, lol. I would have spells when I would really get into it, go to the range a lot, practice, etc.; then

I would go several years without touching a club.

 

I first started playing in my mid 20s in the late 70s; played a lot with my dad in those days. Then my

playing went very sporadic all during the 80s and early 90s; then got really into it from about 1992-1995;

played a lot with my stepson and some guys I worked with; then life happened and I did not touch a

club again until 2006.

 

From 2006-2008 I probably played the most golf in my life; guessing about 100 rounds a year. This

is the time period when I finally became a golf addict, lol. Been hooked ever since though my playing

time has dwindled since that time; going down to around 30 rounds a year to less than 10 to the last

few years only 4 rounds total.

 

I am retiring this fall and I figure I'll be playing a few rounds a week then; with some practice time here

and there. With year round golf I'm sure I'll play 50-100 rounds a year roughly. I'm hoping my game

responds to more play. I played my best when I was playing a lot and I'm hoping that will be the case

again, though I am 10 years older now.

[Conrad1953]

I found this old video on youtube of Geoff Jones students swinging. Love the Hogan side by side with his

student Matt Loving. I remember reading that they never set out to swing like Hogan but his swing sure

looked a lot like Hogan's. Geoff wrote that Matt never saw these videos and didn't want to see videos of

his swing at all.

 

There's a clip in there of Geoff himself doing the 9-3 drill. He's the one wearing the jeans shorts and orange

shirt...……..and obviously much older than his students, lol.

 

Later on there's a clip of Chucky 3 sticks hitting short wedges. He looks a lot like Hogan too as one can see

in the next clips of Hogan. (Charles Howell III)

 

Sadly, this video has no sound. It's been a long time since I've seen it. This video makes it look so easy but

having worked on it I know it's not. I did a lot of 9-3 swings back then trying to get this right, lol.