2017 Phoenix area course conditions

[az2au]

Aguila on Saturday morning....course was in good shape....greens definitely a little rough....looks like they recently verticut the greens so they were pretty bumpy/wobbly.....should be good though in another week or 2....On a side note....I got paired up with a group of guys who A. never gave anyone a putt no matter how short...B. The one guy constantly complained if there was a shadow within 15ft (no joke) of his putt...spent 30-40 seconds on each pre-swing lining his hips up with his club and took over 1.5 minutes to actually hit the shot....putts included....needless to say it was painful

 

Wow, torture.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Aguila on Saturday morning....course was in good shape....greens definitely a little rough....looks like they recently verticut the greens so they were pretty bumpy/wobbly.....should be good though in another week or 2....On a side note....I got paired up with a group of guys who A. never gave anyone a putt no matter how short...B. The one guy constantly complained if there was a shadow within 15ft (no joke) of his putt...spent 30-40 seconds on each pre-swing lining his hips up with his club and took over 1.5 minutes to actually hit the shot....putts included....needless to say it was painful

 

[ferrispgm]

yeah...best part was he never lined up anywhere close to where he wanted and didn't break 90...his alignment on 1 footers was good though...so he's got that going for him.

[ro3erto]

Victory at Verrado Tuesday. Really enjoyed the new course. Great variety of holes, reachable Par 4 with little room for error. Greens were smooth but a little slow, practice green was shaggy so don't be fooled by that. If the pin is in the back on 18 it breaks away from the mountain no matter what you think you read. I took a bunch of pictures off the tee and most of the greens if anyone is interested I could put them in an album somewhere.

 

Also if you play you have to ask for the bounce back coupon. $25 off next round starting in November. They are closing for summer and going forward they mentioned they would alternate which verrado course would close for summer.

[rtraudt]

Sitting at PHX Sky Harbor, so figured I'd pen some thoughts on my days in Arizona. Played Papago Saturday and pace was much better than expected given our 1:15 tee time. We were a twosome alone, so we understandably played quicker that the group ahead and waited most holes, but only for a short bit and total round was only about 4:15. Loved the greens and most of the layout. Plus, good setup for a first round since November as the desert isn't as penal there as others I've played. Aguila on Monday as a walking single, early AM, played in about 2:30 which was fantastic. Greens as mentioned in previous posted had been grated and there was visual evidence, but I didn't notice any gross effect on the roll. Loved the layout, more than Papago actually. Southern Dunes Tuesday, again great pace at 3:30, and was easily my highlight of the trip with the layout and setting. Always been a fan of courses that have no evidence of civilization visible other than th clubhouse, conditions were phenomenal, and the layout was spectacular. Greens rolling a bit slower than I've become accustomed to in the Phoenix areas more high end courses, so that was a bit deceptive at the start, but they did roll perfectly on line. Will return every time I come back to Arizona. Wickenburg Ranch Wednesday, course has amazing views and conditions were about as perfect as anyone could ever imagine, but there were far too many blind shots for me to enjoy it as much as I should have. I imagine if you had one of the places on their complex and played often you would enjoy it more, but playing so many blind shots on a course for the first time always leads to frustration...hard to trust when you don't even know if hitting your intended shot perfectly will end up well or not (which happened). Still, scenic as all hell, so it's got that going for it. Played Los Caballeros in 2 hours in the late PM Wednesday, but for the price and the condition, definitely worth a look if you're trying to make a day of it go for it.

[rtraudt]

On another note, anyone know if Papago has logo balls? I collect them for a display at home, but couldn't find any in the clubhouse and would love to pay someone for one shipped to me if they have one. Thanks everyone for all the recs that helped me plan this trip BTW. Can't wait to come back and knock more off the list (and play Southern Dunes again, of course)!

[jzona]

On another note, anyone know if Papago has logo balls? I collect them for a display at home, but couldn't find any in the clubhouse and would love to pay someone for one shipped to me if they have one. Thanks everyone for all the recs that helped me plan this trip BTW. Can't wait to come back and knock more off the list (and play Southern Dunes again, of course)!

I think I have one, send me a pm with your address and I will get it in the mail next week .

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Victory at Verrado Tuesday. Really enjoyed the new course. Great variety of holes, reachable Par 4 with little room for error. Greens were smooth but a little slow, practice green was shaggy so don't be fooled by that. If the pin is in the back on 18 it breaks away from the mountain no matter what you think you read. I took a bunch of pictures off the tee and most of the greens if anyone is interested I could put them in an album somewhere.

 

Also if you play you have to ask for the bounce back coupon. $25 off next round starting in November. They are closing for summer and going forward they mentioned they would alternate which verrado course would close for summer.

 

I love the original verrado (founders course). Would you say victory is better or worse? Are the courses similar (boulders/Troon) or different (we ko pa/talking Stick)

[WildcatGolfer]

What's the best place to play for under $80 within 45 minutes of Tempe?

[puttnforthe8]

What's the best place to play for under $80 within 45 minutes of Tempe?

 

Papago or Legacy; TPC Champions Walking

[SilverBullets]

Has anyone played Legend Trail lately? I have a buddy coming in town from the Midwest this weekend. We are looking for one round on Sunday. Something not insanely expensive but still solid (looking for like under $120). The options are fairly slim this time of year. Legend Trail has a bunch of 'last minute special' tee times for $112. Is it worth that?

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Has anyone played Legend Trail lately? I have a buddy coming in town from the Midwest this weekend. We are looking for one round on Sunday. Something not insanely expensive but still solid (looking for like under $120). The options are fairly slim this time of year. Legend Trail has a bunch of 'last minute special' tee times for $112. Is it worth that?

 

For a similar price wickenburg ranch & verde river are better

[BUCKEYERBALL88]

Verde River yesterday

 

I was amazed at the great conditions yesterday after 48 hours of straight rain. The design was definitely better pre renovation & before the houses. Similar to GCU I think the layout is good for both a 5 and 20 handicap. I wish the routing was a bit more walker friendly than setup for houses. I still like it more than we ko pa cholla!

 

Tees-good

Greens-perfect for some much rain. True & not that slow. 9 or 10?

Fairways-very good

Bunkers-excellent like Tpc

 

The course was very soft & green. So not good for the firm & fast fans but nothing the super could do after so much rain.

 

I played pebble a month ago, the staff friendliness & course conditions were better at verde river than pebble ha! If you haven't played this course go check it out!

[puttnforthe8]

Mcdowell Mtn in quite good shape. Bunkers were heavy due to the rains, but played fine. Greens were very good - decent speed w/ great roll.

 

It has been a while since I was out there, but it seems that they have turned some of the bunkers into waste areas now.

[sabram]

Has anyone played Legend Trail lately? I have a buddy coming in town from the Midwest this weekend. We are looking for one round on Sunday. Something not insanely expensive but still solid (looking for like under $120). The options are fairly slim this time of year. Legend Trail has a bunch of 'last minute special' tee times for $112. Is it worth that?

I played Legend Trail about ten days ago. It was in excellent condition. Green fee was $122. Not as good as Wickenberg, but much less of a drive. Here's a post I made about it: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1445442-scottsdale-wickenburg-and-phoenix-during-waste-management-week/

 

Link to Legend Trail Photo tour: https://www.flickr.com/photos/golfcoursepix/albums/72157676728794993

[SilverBullets]

Has anyone played Legend Trail lately? I have a buddy coming in town from the Midwest this weekend. We are looking for one round on Sunday. Something not insanely expensive but still solid (looking for like under $120). The options are fairly slim this time of year. Legend Trail has a bunch of 'last minute special' tee times for $112. Is it worth that?

I played Legend Trail about ten days ago. It was in excellent condition. Green fee was $122. Not as good as Wickenberg, but much less of a drive. Here's a post I made about it: http://www.golfwrx.c...anagement-week/

 

Link to Legend Trail Photo tour: https://www.flickr.c...157676728794993

 

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I want to give it a shot, but, not this weekend. We are going to try out Verrado

[Sun Devil]

I used to call Legend Trail the poor man's Troon North course. Similar topography and layout at a lower fee. I really like Legend Trails. They used to be part of the Troon card courses. Not anymore. Too bad.

[kadillackountry]

Longbow on Saturday. Frost delayed us for an hour, but the course was in good shape. Greens were running really well, quick but fair. They were receptive to well hit balls. Fairways and bunkers were well kept. A couple of the tee boxes are staritng to show signs of crowning. That being said there were several that were closed down. Appears like they are trying to systematically address the crowning issue.

 

Coyote Lakes on Sunday. Trying to cross off some of the AZ courses that I have yet to play. This was a good deal on GolfNow for a last minute early tee time, so what the heck. Definitely not my favorite design. The tee boxes were awful. I had a really hard time finding a spot to hit from, especially on par 3's. Crowning was so bad at times. The greens were super slow, but coupled with being super slow they did not hold anything. Several shots that should have ended up pin high ended up rolling off the back of the green...with wedges. Probably felt even slower after coming off nicely paced greens on Saturday at Longbow. Only was in one bunker on the day and it was miserable condition. Unraked and we were the second tee time out. Fairways were "ok" for a muni track. Checked off my list of courses that I haven't played yet, but I don't think I will be back anytime soon.

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Papago Sat, pretty much par for the course for Papago no real issues greens still good, only thing I'd say is bunkers were a little crispier than normal

[fore_life]

I thought the greens at Papago were pretty great, I liked that they had a little firmness/bounce to them. Rolled quick and true. I want back my chip on 1 and approach on 3 damnit hah

[SilverBullets]

Played Verrado Victory yesterday. I really liked the course. I didn't find it overly hard, but, it certainly has moments that can trick you up. The fairways are pretty wide and the greens are pretty big. Really fun layout to play though. Like a previous poster mentioned, there are couple of reachable par 4's from the one up tees (6600 yards). Yesterday they were not reachable because they were into the wind.

 

There are some quirks to the course though. A couple of spots where there are some weird things (they didn't take away from the course for me, but, they were gimmicky in spots). Mainly, some of the green complexes have large runoffs that cut into the middle of the green. Hole 1 for instance it was a front pin. On the left side of the green in the middle of the green there was valley/dip in the green and if you caught that hill you were running off the green and chipping. I could see that being an issue and annoying once the greens are fully rolling. There were spots with the greens rolling kind of slow yesterday, which we all thought if you hit it 1 foot too hard it could go rolling down the fairway... actually at one point a ball did roll off the green. If they shave the greens down and have them rolling at like a 12, I could see these greens being a complete pain in the a** in spots. It will be interesting to see what happens once it's fully functioning and the greens are rooted. This type of green complex was found throughout the course and not just on #1. There was also a Biarritz green which felt somewhat out of place and random. I love a good Biarritz, but it just didn't really fit with this track.

 

Side note - There are kind of a lot of blind tee shots or semi blind tee shots. But it didn't really impact much. There was only 1 hole where there was some trouble that was blind. We all hit into it and it just ended up being a grass bunker which was easy enough to navigate. So don't worry about the blind/blindish tee shots... They aren't setting you up for a ton of trouble. I comfortably hit driver on every single hole without issue.

 

Either way, it's a fun track to play. The closing stretch poses some fun. #15 is a nice, long par 5 which has some trouble. #16 is a pretty vanilla Par 3. #17 is a really interesting par 4. About 350, a wide open fairway and hitting down hill. There is a HUGE grass bunker in the middle of the fairway that extends diagonally from the middle of the fairway to the rough... it actually cuts into the front left of the green. So we all hit our drives out to the right and had wedges in. If you missed the wedge even a foot left of the pin you were rolling down the valley. The hole is totally unprotected and you really can take advantage and make birdie. But you can easily bogey or worse if you roll down the slope (ask me how I know...). 18 is probably the most fun and intimidating tee shot I have seen in the Valley (have only played 6 or 7 courses here though). You are teeing off from a elevated tee box (has to be 80 feet or so elevated), hitting over a pond which has a large bunker bordering it. Rough and OB left (there is a lot of room left though) and desert past the pond. Kind of one of those tee shots you have a pick a target, trust the swing and rip it. The second (or third) shot to the green on the par 5 is back up the hill to an elevated green which is well protected by boulders and bunkers. Pretty cool hole. If you have a regular game or some money on the line, it can (and did for our group) make for a dramatic close to the day.

 

Conditions... it was clearly a new course. That's not to say it's in bad shape (it's not), but, you can tell it's new. The greens were OK. Not nearly as slow as the practice green but also not quick. They rolled fairly smooth throughout the round. Some of the greens were really spungy (like walking on padded carpet) and some were very hard. This is to be expected on a new course which is still rooting. For the most part they were all the same speed... but some were a hair bumpy. Some approached soft and received shots well, while others, were like hitting into a parking lot. You could kind of figure out which greens were going to be soft and receptive and which were going to be firm by the firmness of the fairways. The tee boxes were mostly rock hard. It was actually hard to get a tee in the ground on a bunch of holes. The ladies tees, which get significantly less play, were even firmer. None of this was surprising to me as I have played a handful of courses which are new and are either in preview play or their first season. It's part of the deal with a new course. Give it a couple of years to build that base up and the consistency of the turf will dramatically improve. Either way, it was in pretty good shape. Greens rolled fairly consistent, fairways gave roll out. Just some spots were overly firm, some overly soft and some kind of in between.

 

I will absolutely be back to play it again. It's a fun course.

[kadillackountry]

I thought the greens at Papago were pretty great, I liked that they had a little firmness/bounce to them. Rolled quick and true. I want back my chip on 1 and approach on 3 damnit hah

 

I want about 80% of my approaches all time on #3 back!!

[Double K]

I thought the greens at Papago were pretty great, I liked that they had a little firmness/bounce to them. Rolled quick and true. I want back my chip on 1 and approach on 3 damnit hah

 

I want about 80% of my approaches all time on #3 back!!

 

I want most of my tee shots on #3 back.... I can't find that fairway to save my life.

[kadillackountry]

Grand Canyon on Saturday. Most of the fairways that had issues are almost back to "good", other than that in great shape. Greens running really well. Bunkers in great shape. I'm really digging this course of late.

[wybrh]

Cave Creek yesterday. The greens are fantastic. Everything else is ok. I haven't played there is ages but it's a solid option for $40.

[Sun Devil]

Cave Creek yesterday. The greens are fantastic. Everything else is ok. I haven't played there is ages but it's a solid option for $40.

 

Played there last sat. Greens were surprisingly fast. Tough pin locations. Greens are definitely the best part of this course.

[jatrain]

Walked 18 at TPC Champions this morning. Pretty typical, good conditions. Greens were slow.

[SilverBullets]

Walked 18 at TPC Champions this morning. Pretty typical, good conditions. Greens were slow.

 

I was there yesterday and Friday as well. Greens were painful both days. I find the TPC Champs greens to be quite a bit slower than other courses in the Valley I have played. I also find their greens to be a hair bumpy and seemingly less 'true' than others out here.

 

Friday the course played a bit different than Sunday. Everything was firm and fast Friday. Sunday AM much of the front 9 played borderline soggy. They clearly saturated parts of the course Saturday night/Sunday am. Kind of disappointing as I liked the way it played when really firm more than when it was a bit soft Sunday.

[nower22]

I'm taking a customer to McDowell Mountain this Thursday. Coming in from KC, customer recommended the course. Anyone played there lately?

Thanks

Kevin

[One_Putt_Blunder]

I'm taking a customer to McDowell Mountain this Thursday. Coming in from KC, customer recommended the course. Anyone played there lately?

Thanks

Kevin

 

Hit range balls last weekend. Course looks like it's in good shape.