4.0 GPA in College Overrated They're Saying?

[longshot300]

Hi everyone,

 

First off, I officially can't wait to start playing this season as the golf season in New England gets closer every day. A ton of events happened over the offseason for me.

 

Anyway, since graduating last year, I've been hearing a few people with 4.0 GPAs in my college who are recently struggling to get a job in their respective field they studied in. Thankfully for me, I finished with job experience, along with a 3.61 GPA and graduated Magna Cum Laude. That's good enough for me.

 

Personally, my opinion on having a 4.0 GPA really depends on what the person does outside of school. If one has been doing internships non-stop or do certain activities that may look good on a resume throughout college, then it's not overrated. If the all the person does is do homework and nothing else outside of college, then it may be one of the most overrated achievements in college as of recently.

 

Does anyone else have a take on this?

 

-Chris

[MtlJeff]

My opinion based on many years in business is that GPA is completely irrelevant as a predictor in non-technical roles, like marketing or marketing/sales. I know many executives that were average students, not because they weren't smart, just because they didn't apply themselves in various classes for different reasons. I've done pretty well for myself and i was a 3.0 student. I've interviewed a lot of young kids looking for jobs and i've never asked about GPA. I don't really think it's important for these types of roles

 

Now for more technical roles certainly i could see GPA being more important, accounting maybe, engineering sure. These roles it could be (but isnt always) a factor. I don't know these roles as well but i am assuming GPA is a bit more significant

 

In more science and health based stuff. It's tremendously important. My wife is a psychologist and it's hard to even get into the top programs if you aren't a 4.0 student. It's a barrier to entry just to be accepted into the program.

 

It really depends what field we are talking about. In general business as discussed, i think GPA is absolutely overrated though yes

[ratspros]

My opinion based on many years in business is that GPA is completely irrelevant as a predictor in non-technical roles, like marketing or marketing/sales. I know many executives that were average students, not because they weren't smart, just because they didn't apply themselves in various classes for different reasons. I've done pretty well for myself and i was a 3.0 student. I've interviewed a lot of young kids looking for jobs and i've never asked about GPA. I don't really think it's important for these types of roles

 

Now for more technical roles certainly i could see GPA being more important, accounting maybe, engineering sure. These roles it could be (but isnt always) a factor. I don't know these roles as well but i am assuming GPA is a bit more significant

 

In more science and health based stuff. It's tremendously important. My wife is a psychologist and it's hard to even get into the top programs if you aren't a 4.0 student. It's a barrier to entry just to be accepted into the program.

 

It really depends what field we are talking about. In general business as discussed, i think GPA is absolutely overrated though yes

 

Totally agree. I finished my PGM program with a 1.6GPA. Not one course I interviewed at cared about my GPA, just my playability, personality and other traits. I moved on from golf into sales and I'd actually say from my experience the better students from college are probably the least successful in the sales I'm in (new home sales).

 

Now I sure hope doctors, engineers, etc GPAs come into the hiring process more then us lowly golf pros and sales guys. I don't want someone operating on me that doesn't know the difference between my femur and fibula, nor do I want to hop on a plane design by someone that doesn't fully understand how to properly pressurize a cabin at 40,000'.

 

[tuckman]

No one cares about which college someone went to or their gpa. It doesn't matter for 98% of careers.

 

 

[Ayoung19]

No one cares about which college someone went to or their gpa. It doesn't matter for 98% of careers.

 

I have to disagree with this part. All else being equal I would have to think that someone who went to Harvard will be selected over someone who went to a state school or a less prestigious school.

 

OP, your GPA won't really matter. Your very first job out of school might use it as a screening tool but that's it. Relevant job experience is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

[tuckman]

No one cares about which college someone went to or their gpa. It doesn't matter for 98% of careers.

 

I have to disagree with this part. All else being equal I would have to think that someone who went to Harvard will be selected over someone who went to a state school or a less prestigious school.

 

OP, your GPA won't really matter. Your very first job out of school might use it as a screening tool but that's it. Relevant job experience is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

 

I heard Mark Cuban say a person is stupid if they pay to go to Harvard vs a community college for core classes. All expenses paid? Then that's a different story, but still won't help much in the job market.

 

I listen to people like Cuban and Ramsey say the college attended means nothing except for very, very few markets.

[Matt J]

Yeah, no one at Harvard makes lasting relationships in the dorm that turn into a great network in 8 or 10 years. Queue the Bill Gates story.

 

Grades are mostly for pre-professional schools, law school and med school. It all just depends on what you want to do. The problem being that a lot of kids that don't "worry" about grades flunk out.

 

There are great Computer Science programs at community and tech colleges. But, if you think you're going to take AP Calc I, then Calc II at your local CC and get a math degree from MIT you're probably misguided.

 

My best advice would be to quit worrying about your classmates and keep your own career on track.

 

Mark Cuban is an idiot. Anything that comes out of his mouth, do the opposite.

[tuckman]

You would advise someone to take out a large student loan to go to a private or prestigious school?

[SilverBullets]

I have done a bit a hiring over the last few years. For me, it's about the fit. I have passed on people with a 4.0 GPA from a private school in favor of a person with a 3.2-3.5 GPA from a state school because they fit what I was looking for better (they had a skill or a trait which my team was lacking). Oh, and you're resume will hit the trash if it's below 3.0. I won't even consider it. But either way, to the point about a 4.0, the last guy I hired was from an internet school and was the best hire I have ever made (He had a very strong reference which is why he got in the door in the first place). The kid is a rockstar. Conversely, we had a girl on our team who was a college new hire. She had a 4.0 in undergrad and a 3.8 in her Masters program from a private school. She ended up being a poor performer and was on her last leg multiple times. It took a lot of time to eventually get her up to speed. She was very smart but simply could not apply what she learned in a book to real, actual work. She could answer questions on a test but couldn't answer questions in meetings. She seriously struggled with applying any knowledge beyond a test.

 

When hiring a college new hire or someone with limited experience (like less than 2 years), I look at GPA and University to see if I want to interview them. However, if they have a 4.0 GPA and nothing else to round their resume out, I am more likely to select someone with a 3.3 GPA and a lot of extracurricular activities for an interview. I don't want solely book smart people. I want well rounded people whom can assess, adapt and make decisions when things aren't going their way.

 

Once the person interviews, I honestly could not care less what your GPA is. It becomes about the personality, about being able to apply your knowledge conversationally and towards the questions asked, and filling a need/hole on the team.

 

Having a 4.0 GPA doesn't mean you are going to be successful in the work place. It's about being able to apply that knowledge. The only time I would really use GPA is in a case where I am hiring a college new hire or someone with limited work experience and they are literally a dead tie and I can't decide. In that case, I would look for things to break that tie. A GPA would be a quick one to point to.

[SilverBullets]

Hi everyone,

 

First off, I officially can't wait to start playing this season as the golf season in New England gets closer every day. A ton of events happened over the offseason for me.

 

Anyway, since graduating last year, I've been hearing a few people with 4.0 GPAs in my college who are recently struggling to get a job in their respective field they studied in. Thankfully for me, I finished with job experience, along with a 3.61 GPA and graduated Magna Cum Laude. That's good enough for me.

 

Personally, my opinion on having a 4.0 GPA really depends on what the person does outside of school. If one has been doing internships non-stop or do certain activities that may look good on a resume throughout college, then it's not overrated. If the all the person does is do homework and nothing else outside of college, then it may be one of the most overrated achievements in college as of recently.

 

Does anyone else have a take on this?

 

-Chris

 

100% the correct attitude IMO and a very well guided way to look at things.

[sefus12]

As others have noted, GPA is important in some fields or for getting into grad programs, and meaningless in others. The most important thing to do in college is to get a degree in a field that matters, not something worthless.

[PixlPutterman]

College is overrate to begin with :)

[MtlJeff]

College is overrate to begin with :)

 

The education can be for sure, but the experience (re:girls) are not!

[longshot300]

Yeah, I hear all of that. Like I said, I didn't have a 4.0, I had about a year and a half of relevant experience by the time I graduated instead. I now have a job that pays me enough to live on. That's all I care about.

 

I am also a business grad.

[Mulligan26]

The only things that matter in the golf business are your work ethic (can you work 70hrs a week, every week), your playing ability, your attitude and last (certainly not least) your PGA status. I want people that LOVE golf, LOVE the business, and will put in the time to commit to becoming a PGA member like I'm doing.

[GHIN n Juice]

I deal a lot with employment, education and reviewing individuals who get hired for tech and academic positions and I can say 2 things as general rules: 1) where you went to school matters less the further west you go. There are very well paid and respected individuals who went to smaller, or state schools, or no school at all, in many western states. 2) GPA can get you in the door for an interview but after that you're on your own. I've never come across a case where someone was hired off their GPA. Often individuals who have a 4.0 are lacking other vital skills and are not well rounded candidates.

[chickenpotpie]

GPA is an indicator, as is job experience, references, etc. It means you either have a lot of talent (brains), or busted your tail, or some combination thereof (assuming you went to a decent school).

 

Like the NFL combine, a guy who runs the fastest 40, or has the highest jump may or may not be the best WR.

 

The only flaw with my NFL example is that the supply of potential talent for real world job is limitless (or at least less limited). Thus, there could be situations where a GPA of 4.0 means nothing because everyone applying has one.

[baseknock02]

No one cares about which college someone went to or their gpa. It doesn't matter for 98% of careers.

Really?

 

This little thing begs to differ:

 

 

[Wriggles]

I wasn't going to comment on this, but I will. In 1984, I graduated 19/364 in my class, Magna Cum Laude, with a 3.67 GPA. I went to a small Bible college, graduated with a BSBA in Accounting. My college wasn't the best pick to get a business degree, I would not recommend it to anyone.

 

My work definitely was 4.0, but I had no chance of receiving it. I don't know how colleges are today, but in the liberal arts and Bible departments, the tests were mostly essay, and grades are subjective and interpreted entirely by the whim of the professor. Several of my professors in the liberal arts department just would not give out A's to certain people. For whatever reason, prof didn't like someone, didn't like how they parted their hair, or just didn't think the student was A material.

 

To illustrate, I took an advanced class in English composition. Five minor compositions and one formal term paper were required, with footnotes, etc. The extremely pompous professor, graded me B+ on everything I turned in. He went to great lengths to critique my work, how this and that. There was absolutely NO way I could possibly have gotten an A out of this guy, shooting down my chance for a 4.0.

 

On the other hand, I had a philosophy professor, who actually brought my completed test paper to me, asking me to reread a question, and then advising me to change the answer. He wanted to give me a 100%.

 

As far as I'm concerned, getting a 4.0 is more dependent upon alumni connections and background, and the whim of the individual professors, than actual 4.0 work. As far as the extrinsic value of a 4.0, I say it's not that valuable in the scope of things, just as SATs and IQ tests only gauge performance on one day of a person's life.

 

An opinion, based on personal experience.

[GHIN n Juice]

No one cares about which college someone went to or their gpa. It doesn't matter for 98% of careers.

Really?

 

This little thing begs to differ:

 

WTF is that? Unless it is a Super Bowl ring I couldn't care less.

[baseknock02]

You're from Utah. You wouldn't understand.

[GHIN n Juice]

You're from Utah. You wouldn't understand.

 

Lol, right. Apparently who ever gave you that didn't teach you about stereotypes and how to avoid them. Doesn't speak highly of the institution.

[MtlJeff]

No one cares about which college someone went to or their gpa. It doesn't matter for 98% of careers.

 

I have to disagree with this part. All else being equal I would have to think that someone who went to Harvard will be selected over someone who went to a state school or a less prestigious school.

 

OP, your GPA won't really matter. Your very first job out of school might use it as a screening tool but that's it. Relevant job experience is SO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

 

I heard Mark Cuban say a person is stupid if they pay to go to Harvard vs a community college for core classes. All expenses paid? Then that's a different story, but still won't help much in the job market.

 

I listen to people like Cuban and Ramsey say the college attended means nothing except for very, very few markets.

 

I think top colleges are still valuable for cache value. There's still somewhat of a "network" because you have to remember a lot of the top executives are the people that control the hiring. In many cases these guys are older and in their time the prestige of a top college was worth maybe a bit more than it is today. Not to mention that many of them actually do have higher standards for admission so you do tend to get high achievers primarily at these schools. I mean, a guy shows up with an application from Harvard (or in Canada, McGill) it does tend to be looked at a tad different in some fields

 

Today, with some top CEOs especially in the tech space coming from smaller colleges, and guys like Gladwell writing about some of the potential downsides of top colleges (he addresses this in "David vs Goliath") i think there is a lot more openness to smaller schools though

 

Again, once you are in the door it's fairly meaningless at most places. Once you work for a company and interview for new positions inside it....many companies will not even ask for CV's. I've gotten 4-5 promotions at my company (a large multinational type place) and i don't have a CV right now. I don't think most of my peers even know what school i went to or what my grades were

[SilverBullets]

You're from Utah. You wouldn't understand.

 

Does anyone from a state other than Texas buy a class ring???

 

 

[Bomber_11]

Life is about opportunities, and working your tail off to make the most of them.

 

I left college after 3 years because I received a job offer to go get real world business experience. I learned things in my first 3 months that you won't learn in 4 years of classroom time. I've since moved on from that career to an upper management position where at 27 years old I manage over 20 people and am responsible for profit & loss for a 5 million dollar branch, among many many other things.

 

Every one of my friends from our high school graduating class went on for 4-6 years of college, and every one of them is struggling to get a job right now. A few of them are employed for <$30k/year - and the others are back living with their parents. They all got good grades, but didn't gain an ounce of real world experience along the way.

 

Work Ethic > Education. A 4.0 GPA means you attended class, wrote papers, and filled in little black dots on tests for 4 years.

 

Schools and universities measure obedience and conformance, they don't develop talent. As someone in a hiring position currently, I do not look very deeply into people's education. I'd rather see that someone has 5 years sales and could sell ice to an eskimo vs. someone who attended Cornell, but has no business experience and couldn't tell me what average customer acquisition cost in our field is.

[RipVan]

4.0 at the local liberal arts college just means that the candidate was good at regurgitating the Prof's pablum.

 

Those 3.3 GPA MIT Grads are terribly overrated

[Imp]

I have done a bit a hiring over the last few years. For me, it's about the fit. I have passed on people with a 4.0 GPA from a private school in favor of a person with a 3.2-3.5 GPA from a state school because they fit what I was looking for better (they had a skill or a trait which my team was lacking). Oh, and you're resume will hit the trash if it's below 3.0. I won't even consider it. But either way, to the point about a 4.0, the last guy I hired was from an internet school and was the best hire I have ever made (He had a very strong reference which is why he got in the door in the first place). The kid is a rockstar. Conversely, we had a girl on our team who was a college new hire. She had a 4.0 in undergrad and a 3.8 in her Masters program from a private school. She ended up being a poor performer and was on her last leg multiple times. It took a lot of time to eventually get her up to speed. She was very smart but simply could not apply what she learned in a book to real, actual work. She could answer questions on a test but couldn't answer questions in meetings. She seriously struggled with applying any knowledge beyond a test.

 

When hiring a college new hire or someone with limited experience (like less than 2 years), I look at GPA and University to see if I want to interview them. However, if they have a 4.0 GPA and nothing else to round their resume out, I am more likely to select someone with a 3.3 GPA and a lot of extracurricular activities for an interview. I don't want solely book smart people. I want well rounded people whom can assess, adapt and make decisions when things aren't going their way.

 

Once the person interviews, I honestly could not care less what your GPA is. It becomes about the personality, about being able to apply your knowledge conversationally and towards the questions asked, and filling a need/hole on the team.

 

Having a 4.0 GPA doesn't mean you are going to be successful in the work place. It's about being able to apply that knowledge. The only time I would really use GPA is in a case where I am hiring a college new hire or someone with limited work experience and they are literally a dead tie and I can't decide. In that case, I would look for things to break that tie. A GPA would be a quick one to point to.

This right here.

 

GPA is used as a filter. Above 3, you are all on equal footing. After that it's personality. I know many booksmart people in personal and work life that have what I will call... difficult personalities. They're great in labs, where they can work individually and have infrequent interaction with a team. They can apply their specialized knowledge to their field... in a controlled environment and excel. Need grants or proposals that require research? Great!

 

But work on a team, or with those that have been there for years and can't learn from older experience? Have to do everything the way they were taught, but can't accept the way it really works in the field? Can't take direction and/or criticism? And the big one... can't ask questions? Good luck finding a 4.0 that has that capability to "take it all in stride".

 

GPA is a foot in the door. It's a small part of the equation, gets you the interview. But the interview is what is used to judge the person behind that GPA.

 

--kC

[cdnglf]

Life is about opportunities, and working your tail off to make the most of them.

 

I left college after 3 years because I received a job offer to go get real world business experience. I learned things in my first 3 months that you won't learn in 4 years of classroom time. I've since moved on from that career to an upper management position where at 27 years old I manage over 20 people and am responsible for profit & loss for a 5 million dollar branch, among many many other things.

 

Every one of my friends from our high school graduating class went on for 4-6 years of college, and every one of them is struggling to get a job right now. A few of them are employed for <$30k/year - and the others are back living with their parents. They all got good grades, but didn't gain an ounce of real world experience along the way.

 

Work Ethic > Education. A 4.0 GPA means you attended class, wrote papers, and filled in little black dots on tests for 4 years.

 

Schools and universities measure obedience and conformance, they don't develop talent. As someone in a hiring position currently, I do not look very deeply into people's education. I'd rather see that someone has 5 years sales and could sell ice to an eskimo vs. someone who attended Cornell, but has no business experience and couldn't tell me what average customer acquisition cost in our field is.

 

Glad its worked out for you so far, but this is not good advice in general.

Not having a degree at all can severely limit one's options. Tougher to move up, tougher to move to a different company, tougher to work internationally.

[Tigermatt31]

many people who get C's in high school have risen very high in companies because they had good social cues and learned to work hard.

[moegolfer11]

I've always been under the impression that work experience will trump grades. That is not to say that grades are not important. Rather to say, proper work experience will supplement a 3.5 GPA as opposed to no work experience with a 4.0 GPA. The guy with work experience will be able to communicate better and understand business operations better than the guy with no work experience who was a bookworm. The latter guy simply doesn't have the social skills or experience. I was not the best student and ended up with a 3.2 GPA in finance from a prominent liberal arts school. BUT I worked proper jobs throughout high school & college, In all of my interviews they asked me about prior job experience and how I managed my time. They didn't ask me why I got a C+ in microeconomics...